I know you all probably hate "What are my chances?" threads...

[DeadCactus]

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What kind of MCAT is needed to balance out a 3.2-3.4 GPA?

Major is Engineering with a minor in Chemistry. May also have a second degree if I can get the Spanish credits done. Only mention these because it's my understanding that major gives you a tiny bit of slack (0.1 or so)...

 

[OncDoc19]

Well after taking a quick look through MD Applicants the chances don't look good. Even people who had MCATs in the high 30s were rejected almost everywhere. The question is do you want to get into an MSTP or do you want to get into a highly ranked MSTP. If you get a 37 MCAT or above, you could likely get into an MD/PhD program, but not necessarily an MSTP or a highly ranked school.

I don't think that the engineering thing is actually going to help you. Everyone you are competing against in MSTP likely had a scientifically rigorous undergrad and plus, when the schools are screening they are not going to take the time to look at your major. They screen on numbers which means they have a cutoff and you either make it or you don't. Even with a 0.1 boost your GPA is still very low for MSTP.

One person from last year comes to mind - Durfen. He applied last year with a low BCMP 3.2, but his overall was 3.6 (MCAT 38) and got into several MSTPs including Penn and UWash. However, according to his MDApps he also had "5yrs continous part-time research in medical imaging, image processing (>4 pubs, 2 first author, >10 abstracts, some first author)." This kind of research can make up for GPA issues.

Apply early and broadly and to some non-NIH schools as well. Don't check the MSTP-only box because you may end up having to take an MD-only acceptance and then apply internally, especially if you are aiming for a higher ranked school.

I'm sorry if I seem like such a downer, its just that MSTP students tend to have even higher stats than MD-only applicants. If you have AMAZING research, you can overcome this though.

 

[DeadCactus]

I'm sorry if I seem like such a downer, its just that MSTP students tend to have even higher stats than MD-only applicants. If you have AMAZING research, you can overcome this though.

No need for a sorry. This is why I came here; I need an honest assessment of where I stand. Thank you for your help.

 

[LadyLightning20]

The question is do you want to get into an MSTP or do you want to get into a highly ranked MSTP. If you get a 37 MCAT or above, you could likely get into an MD/PhD program, but not necessarily an MSTP or a highly ranked school.

I feel like this is a really stupid question, but what is the difference between MD/PhD and MSTP? Is MSTP just a more integrated program whereas an MD/PhD program just lets you get both degrees?

Oh, and what is/are the cutoffs for MSTP programs?

 

[QofQuimica]

Dead Cactus,

I suggest that you apply broadly to a variety of schools (i.e., not just the top 20 USNWR programs), and you should also apply to some MD-only or MD/MS programs as a backup. If you don't get into an MD/PhD program, start your MD and see about either taking time off to do the PhD while you're in med school (possible in some programs) or doing a PhD or fellowship after med school. The main downside to doing separate degrees like this is that you're almost certain to have to pay for your MD. On the bright side, you'll also be paid as a fellow, which is a lot better than being paid as a grad student. 🙂 You might want to read over Tildy's academic medicine advising thread; the link is in my sticky at the top of the forum.

to you.

 

[juventusman31]

The question is do you want to get into an MSTP or do you want to get into a highly ranked MSTP. If you get a 37 MCAT or above, you could likely get into an MD/PhD program, but not necessarily an MSTP or a highly ranked school.

I feel like this is a really stupid question, but what is the difference between MD/PhD and MSTP? Is MSTP just a more integrated program whereas an MD/PhD program just lets you get both degrees?

MSTP is an according-to-Hoyle NIH program that receives funding from the federal government. An MD/PhD program is a program devised by an individual school with the same end (dual degree; training as a physician scientist) that may or may not provide funding for the student.

Oh, and what is/are the cutoffs for MSTP programs?

Academic cutoffs are pretty ill-defined for MD/PhD programs (research experience being just as important), but from what I've gleaned from discussions/admissions Web sites, an applicant should be expected to have an MCAT in the mid-30s and a GPA of >3.7 to be in consideration. That being said, an applicant can definitely get in with lower numbers than that, but research experiences in that case should be stellar.

 

[RxnMan]

I would second Q's advice. Once you're in med school, it's embarrassingly easy to take time off and do whatever you want, including getting a PhD (or MS or MPH or...). Also, there's a number of research residencies, where you'll get a PhD in the process of going through residency and fellowship.

The thing to focus on is that this is all a process, and it doesn't all have to happen at once.

 

[DeadCactus]

As for what schools to apply to, my plan was the following:

I'm from Texas and so I will of course be applying to all the local Med Schools and their MD/PhD or MSTP programs.

I also plan to send out applications to five to ten non-Texas MSTPs depending on how many I can find that fit well with my research interests.

That would be about 12-18 applications with a, in my opinion, decent range of prestige. Does this seem like a reasonable plan?

This does raise a question that has been bothering me for awhile now. Should I apply to MD/PhD or MSTP at every school I apply to if they offer it? Or should I do just straight MD at a few to keep the MD/PhD application from possibly stopping me from even getting a pure MD acceptance?

 

[OncDoc19]

As for what schools to apply to, my plan was the following:

I'm from Texas and so I will of course be applying to all the local Med Schools and their MD/PhD or MSTP programs.

I also plan to send out applications to five to ten non-Texas MSTPs depending on how many I can find that fit well with my research interests.

That would be about 12-18 applications with a, in my opinion, decent range of prestige. Does this seem like a reasonable plan?

This does raise a question that has been bothering me for awhile now. Should I apply to MD/PhD or MSTP at every school I apply to if they offer it? Or should I do just straight MD at a few to keep the MD/PhD application from possibly stopping me from even getting a pure MD acceptance?

12 schools is a little low based on your GPA. For example, solitude (who I hope doesn't mind me using him as an example), has a 40 MCAT and a 3.96 and is applying to 11 schools. If I were you I wouldn't apply to less than 20. Apply MD/PhD but if given the choice mark MD/PhD or MD (basically if rejected for MD/PhD consider me for MD-only). You could apply MD only at a few schools if you would be interested in applying internally for MD/PhD at those schools.

 

[QofQuimica]

12 schools is a little low based on your GPA. For example, solitude (who I hope doesn't mind me using him as an example), has a 40 MCAT and a 3.96 and is applying to 11 schools. If I were you I wouldn't apply to less than 20. Apply MD/PhD but if given the choice mark MD/PhD or MD (basically if rejected for MD/PhD consider me for MD-only). You could apply MD only at a few schools if you would be interested in applying internally for MD/PhD at those schools.

Agree with this advice.

Twelve schools is probably not going to be a broad enough selection for you, DeadCactus; most MD/PhD programs don't favor in-state students the way MD-only programs do. If you're worried about the cost of applying to two dozen programs, look at it this way: it's WAY more expensive to reapply to two dozen schools next year than it is to apply to two dozen schools in the first place. to you. 🙂

 

[RxnMan]

...most MD/PhD programs don't favor in-state students the way MD-only programs do...

When I was looking into programs, they all stated that they treat applicants on a netional level - they do not favor in-state or out-of-state.

 

[OncDoc19]

When I was looking into programs, they all stated that they treat applicants on a netional level - they do not favor in-state or out-of-state.

The only program I can think of that does have same state bias is UCSF. You have to make it throught their med school secondary screening and that is state biased.

 

[j-weezy]

Well technically, since UCSF is an NIH funded MSTP, it shouldn't have state bias for MSTP applicants but who really knows about their admissions process.

 

[OncDoc19]

Well technically, since UCSF is an NIH funded MSTP, it shouldn't have state bias for MSTP applicants but who really knows about their admissions process.

Once you get a secondary there is no state bias. But in giving out the secondaries there is, which creates a subtle bias in the whole process. Its the med school, not the MSTP that is responsible for the secondaries.