I may need therapy myself after all of this waiting!

[RayneeDeigh]

Hi everybody, I'm new here.

I think maybe I was overly confident while applying, because I never expected to be sitting here in February with no interview offers. It was a shock that I'm still trying to deal with!

I applied to these clinical psych PhD programs (and my research interests involve sexual offenders):

University of British Columbia
Simon Fraser University
University of Saskatchewan
Pacific Graduate School of Psychology
University of Oregon
University of Arizona
University of Illinois - Chicago
University of Alabama
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities
George Mason University
University of Nebraska - Lincoln

And reading the interview thread, it appears that my only real hope left is Arizona. That was my first choice anyway, but I'm thinking the odds aren't so good. My Subject GRE score was 740, my Quant. was 760, my Verbal 650, and Analytical was 5.0. I have a year and a half of volunteer research assistant experience, I'm finishing up my undergrad honours thesis now, and I've presented a poster at one conference (and will give a talk at another one in April). I had applied to work in telephone bereavement support at a local hospital and was scheduled for training, but then the woman went in for surgery and cancelled it so I'm in the process of finding someplace else to get some clinical volunteer experience. I was hoping that wouldn't affect my application TOO much, but I think it may have.

My question (sorry this is SUCH a long post) is... it looks like I'm going to have to take a year off and beef up my application a little bit. Any advice?

Oh and I have another question too. If it ends up being impossible for me to get in to a PhD program and I have to try for a PsyD (not that I think it's not as good, I just enjoy research sometimes)... is it possible for PsyD people to work with prison populations, or do they usually prefer the PhD?

Thanks everybody! Nice to meet you guys and good luck to everyone who got interviews. I'm really jealous but I still wish you all the best!

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[edieb]

It sounds like your GRE scores are good enough to get in. Are you sure the schools you are applying to are finished offering invitations to interview? I know @ the PhD program I applied to that invites are offered last minute -- they still have not gone out to potential students!

Psy.D.s frequently work in applied forensics/with prisoners. I believe New Mexico State has a program that is heavy in forensics. I know at Louisiana State University, you can also work in a forensic settings doing both research (at a federal prison) and doing research (with a forensic psychologist).

To beef up your application, you really should be working under a professor doing research. I know at least some schools you applied to are heavily reseearch-oriented (e.g., Illinois). Try to work with a prof who has research interests close to yours. HOWEVER, if this is not possible, doing any research is great. When picking a prof to work for, try to make sure you select one who actually cares enough to write you a letter/who will follow through. Also, you may want to join the APA (apa.org) and your state psychological ass'n. Some people claim that it does not matter if you are a member or not. However, my school looks for that and what harm could it possibly do?

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Thanks for the reply!

I've been a volunteer research assistant with a prof at my school for a year and a half, although I'm at a Canadian University where none of the profs do forensic work so out of necessity, I've done mainly social psych research.

I'll definitely join the CPA/APA, that's an excellent idea.

I keep hoping that I'm wrong and the schools aren't done inviting people, but according to that interview thread on here, most of them are. I was given a preliminary phone interview with a grad student at U of Alabama but the prof later emailed me to say that I didn't make the cut for the in-person interviews. U of Nebraska mailed my rejection. Other than that, I haven't heard anything but other people have so I guess I'll just keep hoping for Arizona.

I really regret not applying for a Psy.D. program somewhere. I'm pretty sure that all the deadlines for applications would have passed by now. But I'm only 21 so I suppose I can afford to take a year off and get some more research/clinical experience. At least the GREs are valid for a little while.

In Nebraska's rejection letter they mentioned not having time to discuss individual applications, but do you think other schools would be able to provide feedback on what led to my application being rejected? I don't want to ask if it will just annoy them but I also want to make sure I put the next year to good use.

 

[paramour]

You could try applying to a master's program. There are many with deadlines still in the future.

 

[cleverclover]

If you don't get in, don't worry. I am almost 27 and this is my third and hopefully last time applying. I was at an interview this weekend and they told us that clinical psychology programs are 4 times harder to get into than medical school. So you just need to be determined. If this is what you really want to do, it doesn't matter how long it takes for you to get to that point. I would recommend finding a full-time research position. After I finished my master's and still didn't get accepted, I found a job working for the director of the clinical psychology program at a very well known school. Completing research in my field of interest, getting more publications, and a recommendation letter from my boss has really helped my application. Especially when applying to the same school I am working for. So if there is a school that you think is your dream school, try to find a job there. I personally do not recommend getting your master's first. It did not help me and just put me really far in debt. But some people may disagree.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I lifted this from a post I just made in the "Rejection" thread, but I thought it was appropriate to post in here.

....everyone needs to remind themselves that not only are they competing against a very accomplished group of people, but the vast majority of THAT group are going to be rejected.

-t

 

[RayneeDeigh]

If you don't get in, don't worry. I am almost 27 and this is my third and hopefully last time applying. I was at an interview this weekend and they told us that clinical psychology programs are 4 times harder to get into than medical school. So you just need to be determined. If this is what you really want to do, it doesn't matter how long it takes for you to get to that point. I would recommend finding a full-time research position. After I finished my master's and still didn't get accepted, I found a job working for the director of the clinical psychology program at a very well known school. Completing research in my field of interest, getting more publications, and a recommendation letter from my boss has really helped my application. Especially when applying to the same school I am working for. So if there is a school that you think is your dream school, try to find a job there. I personally do not recommend getting your master's first. It did not help me and just put me really far in debt. But some people may disagree.

That's very good advice, thank you!

I just wish that as a Canadian, I could work (and do research) in the US. Immigration laws make it really hard.

Four times as hard as med school huh? Well, it looks like I really will need therapy after all.

 

[paramour]

If you ever lurk on the med school forums, you'll see that those applicants often have to reapply 2-3 times as well before they get accepted. And, generally, they apply to a heck of a lot more programs at once than most clinical psych applicants. I suppose it all depends upon where you're willing to go and how willing you want to be there.

As far as the master's degree is concerned, it can be a waste of money depending upon what you put into it and where you go I suppose. My program has been great enough to pay for my tuition and provide me a stipend. And, I received the opportunity to gain quite a bit of teaching experience along with the research experience. There's also the added bonus that I was able to develop better relationships with the professors, who in turn were able to write awesome recommendation letters when the time came. I suspect this made a difference for me since I come from a somewhat nontraditional university, where the majority of my undergrad courses were at night with adjuncts or online with the full professors. They can say how wonderful I am in class, of course, but that extra time with them helps put some oomph! in the letter. It all depends upon what you need though. The master's route could benefit some, whereas it might not make a difference with others.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

If you ever lurk on the med school forums, you'll see that those applicants often have to reapply 2-3 times as well before they get accepted. And, generally, they apply to a heck of a lot more programs at once than most clinical psych applicants. I suppose it all depends upon where you're willing to go and how willing you want to be there.

As far as the master's degree is concerned, it can be a waste of money depending upon what you put into it and where you go I suppose. My program has been great enough to pay for my tuition and provide me a stipend. And, I received the opportunity to gain quite a bit of teaching experience along with the research experience. There's also the added bonus that I was able to develop better relationships with the professors, who in turn were able to write awesome recommendation letters when the time came. I suspect this made a difference for me since I come from a somewhat nontraditional university, where the majority of my undergrad courses were at night with adjuncts or online with the full professors. They can say how wonderful I am in class, of course, but that extra time with them helps put some oomph! in the letter. It all depends upon what you need though. The master's route could benefit some, whereas it might not make a difference with others.

I gave up my dreams of med school 'cause I couldn't pass organic chem to save my life. I had this crazy delusion that clinical psych would be an easier nut to crack. lol.

I'm gonna have to give this master's thing a lot of thought in the next week. It seems like it might be a good opportunity if I can come to terms with taking longer to get to a PhD.

 

[paramour]

I gave up my dreams of med school 'cause I couldn't pass organic chem to save my life. I had this crazy delusion that clinical psych would be an easier nut to crack. lol.

I'm gonna have to give this master's thing a lot of thought in the next week. It seems like it might be a good opportunity if I can come to terms with taking longer to get to a PhD.

I actually have most of my pre-reqs for med school complete. I'm threatening to take a year off to finish them up so I can apply to med school if I don't get in this time around. I thought about med school for a long time but psychology somehow sidetracked me . . . and those last couple o' classes simply would not fit into my schedule since I had to take them at night. No regrets thus far, however. Well, unless everyone rejects me again!

 

[Thor2211]

I cant stress enough how important research experience is. I scored a 420 on my verbal gre and a 620 on my quant, I scored in the 18% on the subject GRE which is pathetic. However, I didn't study, had the flu and fell asleep half way through the test to be awaken with 20 minutes left and just filled a bunch of **** out. My point is...I have 5 clinical psych Ph.D. interview offers and the reason is because I have 5 manuscripts either in press or under review and 9 conference presentations. Research experience and match goes a long long way!

 

[paramour]

I cant stress enough how important research experience is. I scored a 420 on my verbal gre and a 620 on my quant, I scored in the 18% on the subject GRE which is pathetic. However, I didn't study, had the flu and fell asleep half way through the test to be awaken with 20 minutes left and just filled a bunch of **** out. My point is...I have 5 clinical psych Ph.D. interview offers and the reason is because I have 5 manuscripts either in press or under review and 9 conference presentations. Research experience and match goes a long long way!

I completely agree! Research experience seems to be a necessity for acceptance into a clinical psych program. Although I received two interviews at decent programs my first cycle with minimal to no research experience, I was later advised it was still cause for concern when they reviewed and compared me to other applicants. I definitely believe the experience I have gained since then has helped me this round but I am well-aware that there will be many others with still even more experience. Research NEVER hurts!

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I cant stress enough how important research experience is. I scored a 420 on my verbal gre and a 620 on my quant, I scored in the 18% on the subject GRE which is pathetic. However, I didn't study, had the flu and fell asleep half way through the test to be awaken with 20 minutes left and just filled a bunch of **** out. My point is...I have 5 clinical psych Ph.D. interview offers and the reason is because I have 5 manuscripts either in press or under review and 9 conference presentations. Research experience and match goes a long long way!

I'll submit my honours thesis for publication and hope that it's good enough so that can go on my CV

I've done one conference presentation and have one more planned for April, then I'm hoping to go to the APA convention in August.

Hopefully with those additions and some clinical experience I'll be more competitive next year.

Five manuscripts is quite impressive! I wish I had the opportunity to submit something as an undergrad.

 

[Quynh2007]

let me knock on wood before i say my piece (Knock Knock Knock):

sometimes it really is just luck. I just happened to stumble upon a professor who had the same passion as I did. I emailed him, he got excited and we ended up having an informal talk at Starbucks. He basically edited my Statement of Purpose (which blew me away the way these people can write!) so that I can stand out more, and just helped me every step of the way. I ended up talking to his grad students who gave me a lot of insight into that school's admissions process, and realized then my chances were pretty good based on that alone (if you want to know, I will PM). again, knock knock knock.

I'm feel like I'm a below average applicant (on SDN anyway). I have a 1330/5.0 (580V), 3.53 cum. GPA (3.8+ last 2 yrs), 3+ yrs of research (but the projects are really slow so no papers yet) combined from 2 different research project, 1 yr of clinicalish related activity, pretty glowing LOR, and turned in everything the day it was due (I'm such a procrastinator).

 

[paramour]

. . .

. . . and turned in everything the day it was due (I'm such a procrastinator)

You know what they say . . .

Procrastination is like masturbation. At first it feels good, but in the end you're only screwing yourself.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

let me knock on wood before i say my piece (Knock Knock Knock):

sometimes it really is just luck. I just happened to stumble upon a professor who had the same passion as I did. I emailed him, he got excited and we ended up having an informal talk at Starbucks. He basically edited my Statement of Purpose (which blew me away the way these people can write!) so that I can stand out more, and just helped me every step of the way. I ended up talking to his grad students who gave me a lot of insight into that school's admissions process, and realized then my chances were pretty good based on that alone (if you want to know, I will PM). again, knock knock knock.

I'm feel like I'm a below average applicant (on SDN anyway). I have a 1330/5.0 (580V), 3.53 cum. GPA (3.8+ last 2 yrs), 3+ yrs of research (but the projects are really slow so no papers yet) combined from 2 different research project, 1 yr of clinicalish related activity, pretty glowing LOR, and turned in everything the day it was due (I'm such a procrastinator).

That doesn't sound like you're below average at all!

 

[Psych_Ho]

Quynh2007, that is definitely not average for an applicant, that is excellent.

Thor2211 makes an EXCELLENT point- a demonstrated ability to contribute to research publications, especially being 1st or 2nd author, will go a LONG way towards mitigating other aspcts of your overall application profile that may be less strong. Alternatively, if you do not have pubs, but the rest of the your profile is strong, you will be okay as well.

I also cannot stress how important the personal statement is - you should have several people read it through for both content and for proofreading/grammar. Have someone like a prof or advanced grad student look it over and provide feedback. Also have someone who may know you but who is not in psychology read it and tell you what they think... Also good to have someone who doesn't even know you very well to read it. This will give you a range of feedback and you can adjust the statement based on all the feedback (of course using your own discretion).

Having a C.V. that is well presented and highlights your strengths is also very important- do not be afraid to ask grad students you might know to see their c.v. as an example or to look yours over and give feedback.

Keep in mind- you will be going through this same sort of process when you apply for clinical internship, post-docs, faculty jobs, etc .... these hoops never go away - the name of them just changes!

 

[paramour]

. . .

Keep in mind- you will be going through this same sort of process when you apply for clinical internship, post-docs, faculty jobs, etc .... these hoops never go away - the name of them just changes!

Sshhhhhhhhhh! Only one hoop at a time, please!

 

[amy203]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that your research interest (sex offenders) seems pretty specific and unusual. I know there are some areas of research that are just harder to get into than others - eating disorders is a good example - because they are fairly narrow but also very popular. You might consider broadening your focus a bit.

Also, if you aren't applying to work with people doing research on sex offenders, but list it as your research interest in your PS, then that's your problem right there.

If you are already in lab that studies sex offenders, I would definitely try to stay there - completing research that is similar to what you want to do in grad school can make a big difference. If you can't get a paid position, try to stay on as an intern (as many hours as you can) and get a paid position somewhere else. And, if you haven't already, let your advisors know how much you want to publish. They may be able to set something up.

Edit: Oops - just reread your 2nd post. Ignore the paragraph above! I would try to get a job/internship at a lab focused on sex offenders or at least forensic psyc. Again, if you can't get a paid position, see if you can work as an intern. One advantage to this is that your advisor may be more likely to help you publish, etc. if you are a volunteer (to make up for not paying you).

Your application looks really great! I would say your issue is match (and publications definitly wouldn't hurt!)

 

[paramour]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that your research interest (sex offenders) seems pretty specific and unusual. I know there are some areas of research that are just harder to get into than others - eating disorders is a good example - because they are fairly narrow but also very popular. You might consider broadening your focus a bit.

Also, if you aren't applying to work with people doing research on sex offenders, but list it as your research interest in your PI, then that's your problem right there.

If you are already in lab that studies sex offenders, I would definitely try to stay there - completing research that is similar to what you want to do in grad school can make a big difference. If you can't get a paid position, try to stay on as an intern (as many hours as you can) and get a paid position somewhere else. And, if you haven't already, let your advisors know how much you want to publish. They may be able to set something up.

Amy's absolutely correct--although having such a specific interest may seem like a good thing, it can make it difficult to find programs with profs who possess relevant interests. Try broadening your interests just a bit (I did!)--perhaps indicate you are interested in psychosexual behavior, list a few areas within this general realm that you are interested in, and attempt to find programs with profs in that more general area. Even though it may not be exactly research on sex offenders that the prof is investigating, you never know whether they may be willing to allow you to study related interests while under their tutelage.

For example, my POI at one program researches sex offenders but not all of her current students study the same. Some of them have moved on to sexual dysfunctions in women with IVF; others have reviewed sexual compulsions and personality. As you can see, these interests were not the same as the POI's but their general interest in sexuality fits with hers. This particular prof is open and supportive if you wish to branch out in the area--perhaps you can find someone willing to do the same.

G'luck!

 

[RayneeDeigh]

You guys are so helpful! I'm definitely going to take the advice about broadening my research interests. Thank you!