I mean, How hard is it to specialize?

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Ivan Drago

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I am very curious...

I have heard you need to be in, like, the top 10-15% of your class or something....( How hard is this actually? )

I have also heard that its all about who you know?!?

Oh, and I have also heard that you can specialize after you have been out practicing for a couple years, or whatever.

Whats the verdict? 👍

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dont you need to score really high on the NBDE I also?
 
dont you need to score really high on the NBDE I also?

Yes, usually.

But, there are always exceptions to the rule. Not all specialties are as difficult to get into. Obviously Oral surgery, Ortho, and Pedo are very difficult...Endo too, but there are 5 other specialties that, relatively speaking, are less competitive and don't necessarily just look for people in the top 10% with 94+ on boards.

The others in no particular order are:

Periodontistry
Public Health
Oral Pathology
Oral Medicine (not a recognized specialty yet)
Oral Radiology
Prosthodontics
 
You should ask what is going to take to rank highly. I've talked to people who rank really high who hardly go to parties at all.
 
I am very curious...

I have heard you need to be in, like, the top 10-15% of your class or something....( How hard is this actually? )

I have also heard that its all about who you know?!?

Oh, and I have also heard that you can specialize after you have been out practicing for a couple years, or whatever.

Whats the verdict? 👍

Specializing is incredibly easy; if you are an @$$hole, foreign(non-English speaking), or painfully boring then you're in. But then not everyone wants to be a periodontist...
 
After seeing the stats of those who matched in the Pedo thread, as well as the soon-to-be pedo residents I personally know, I'd have to say I disagree with your assessment. Either it's not as competitive as it was 2 or 3 yrs ago, or it was simply a myth.


Obviously Oral surgery, Ortho, and Pedo are very difficult...Endo too, but there are 5 other specialties that, relatively speaking, are less competitive and don't necessarily just look for people in the top 10% with 94+ on boards.
 
After seeing the stats of those who matched in the Pedo thread, as well as the soon-to-be pedo residents I personally know, I'd have to say I disagree with your assessment. Either it's not as competitive as it was 2 or 3 yrs ago, or it was simply a myth.

Yeah. I don't know for sure...I base my replies on what I see and experience...and the people who got Pedo around me were all top notch students or had some other "special" factor. I don't plan to specialize, so I don't go thumbing through national match statistics for fun, so I have no idea if what I see is an abnormality or not. I do other things with that free time.
 
Yes, usually.

But, there are always exceptions to the rule. Not all specialties are as difficult to get into. Obviously Oral surgery, Ortho, and Pedo are very difficult...Endo too, but there are 5 other specialties that, relatively speaking, are less competitive and don't necessarily just look for people in the top 10% with 94+ on boards.

The others in no particular order are:

Periodontistry
Public Health
Oral Pathology
Oral Medicine (not a recognized specialty yet)
Oral Radiology
Prosthodontics

I'll have to disagree, Perio and Prost are most likely on the "Hard to Get in" list, after surgery and ortho ofcourse. I would say pedo is not that competitive. Of all the dentists in the country only 3% are pediatric dentists, so it is not such a popular field. And you are probably right about the rest of your list, because these are not the professions where you open a private practice, and not everyone wants to go into academia; these are the fields that people go into later in life, along with biomaterials and others.
 
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I am very curious...

I have heard you need to be in, like, the top 10-15% of your class or something....( How hard is this actually? )

I have also heard that its all about who you know?!?

Oh, and I have also heard that you can specialize after you have been out practicing for a couple years, or whatever.

Whats the verdict? 👍

Ranked by difficulty to get into:

Endo
Ortho
OMFS
Pedo
Perio
Proths
Pub Health Dent (tied for last)
Oral Path (tied for last)


And btw, I have no evidence for any of this, just my own psychic intuition.
 
I'll have to disagree, Perio and Prost are most likely on the "Hard to Get in" list, after surgery and ortho ofcourse. I would say pedo is not that competitive. Of all the dentists in the country only 3% are pediatric dentists, so it is not such a popular field. And you are probably right about the rest of your list, because these are not the professions where you open a private practice, and not everyone wants to go into academia; these are the fields that people go into later in life, along with biomaterials and others.
You've been drinking a lot of kool-aid if you think perio and pros are more competitive than pedo. 😉
 
Fortunately for those folks, there's also prostho.

Haha, it's not always true though. I used to think the same thing, and my experience supported it, but I've met an awesome 3rd year at my school who's going perio and my beautiful girlfriend is going into prosth, so they can't all be bad, right?
 
Hello, didnt want to open a new thread for this noob question, but why is it necessary to specialize at all? If any GP can and have a right to pull 3ds, place implants, do root canals, ets? Why one has to be in top10% of the class and shell out 200K and a few years of his life for this? Enlighten me please.
 
Hello, didnt want to open a new thread for this noob question, but why is it necessary to specialize at all? If any GP can and have a right to pull 3ds, place implants, do root canals, ets? Why one has to be in top10% of the class and shell out 200K and a few years of his life for this? Enlighten me please.
to be able to charge more for his/her services.
 
to be able to charge more for his/her services.

i think its not as much that you're able to charge more, but that your entire schedule is full of the more costly procedures rather than a couple crowns in between simple fills like that of a gp. production is greatly increased while overhead and efficiency is decreased.
 
Well doing crowns and fills is GP's choice, is it not? He can just to be pulling teeth or whatever and do nothing else. And I am sure with some practice he will do it with the same ease and ability as someine who did specialize.
 
Well doing crowns and fills is GP's choice, is it not? He can just to be pulling teeth or whatever and do nothing else. And I am sure with some practice he will do it with the same ease and ability as someine who did specialize.

GP's must maintain a hygiene dept in order to fill his/her schedule. during hygiene checks, fills are the most common dental procedure found. And the gp must provide this service to his pt's or the pt will simply go elsewhere. So, its not necessarily his choice, he must provide general dentistry to his pt's as he is so advertised.

Imagine going to your family dentist and being referred out for a filling!

GP's , however, do seem to specialize in certain niches though they cant legally advertise as such a specialist. IE, one guy I worked with did only crown/bridge and fills and referred out 90% of his endo/OS -> he did quite well infact. So, as a gp you can have a larger % of your procedures in on specialty, but again your title almost requires you to provide the general dental care to your patients. Many gp's are very capable in their niche, some would argue as capable as specialists.

Specialists, on the contrary, do not require hygienists (exp perio) and rely on referring dentists for their work. They are not required to provide general care and are only referred procedures within their specialty. Thus their schedules are more easily filled with only high producing procedures.

Additionally, you find it rare that a GP will refer to another GP if a specialist is available in the area making it nearly impossible for a GP to perform ONLY large production specialty-type cases.

to those with more experience - does this sound accurate?
 
GP's must maintain a hygiene dept in order to fill his/her schedule. during hygiene checks, fills are the most common dental procedure found. And the gp must provide this service to his pt's or the pt will simply go elsewhere. So, its not necessarily his choice, he must provide general dentistry to his pt's as he is so advertised.

Imagine going to your family dentist and being referred out for a filling!

GP's , however, do seem to specialize in certain niches though they cant legally advertise as such a specialist. IE, one guy I worked with did only crown/bridge and fills and referred out 90% of his endo/OS -> he did quite well infact. So, as a gp you can have a larger % of your procedures in on specialty, but again your title almost requires you to provide the general dental care to your patients. Many gp's are very capable in their niche, some would argue as capable as specialists.

Specialists, on the contrary, do not require hygienists (exp perio) and rely on referring dentists for their work. They are not required to provide general care and are only referred procedures within their specialty. Thus their schedules are more easily filled with only high producing procedures.

Additionally, you find it rare that a GP will refer to another GP if a specialist is available in the area making it nearly impossible for a GP to perform ONLY large production specialty-type cases.

to those with more experience - does this sound accurate?


Sounds very accurate and true for most GP's. However, I think that you can charge whatever you want as a GP for any procedure you like. The dentist I know is GP but he only does full mouth rehabs and implants, ortho and complete dentures, esthetic fillings and he charges probably way more than any specialists in the area he practices. His dentures are $ 9100 and his ortho tx are varied in prices but only targeted towards adults and very short in duration while charging about the same as orthodontist if not more. he does 40 - 55K full mouth cases very regularly about 2 a month. So What I am trying to say here is that in the end is not what specialty you have gone through or what not but how good you are at providing what patients need. people will pay anything if they think you are worth it. he does posterior class II' (esthetic ones) composites for $450. People think it's worth it and he is fee for service. Anything is possible if you have drive, vision and capability of providing the best services to patients. Mostly GP's don't charge more or don't do high in the end is many of them don't take enough CE's to make them more valuable and they are happy where they are. generally specialists have more drive and go extra mile so they get more success. I don't think success has anything to with what specialty you have. As a specialist you will hit a ceiling but as GP you can run your practice with multiple associates and make even way more money than specialist if that is your desire. I would rather be a GP and run a good small one doc practice and make 200K and be happy. Things I want/need in life don't cost that much.
 
I think dental public health is the hardest one to get into. I read in my public health book last semester that there are only 400 DPH dentists in the whole nation! Talk about competitive!
 
I think dental public health is the hardest one to get into. I read in my public health book last semester that there are only 400 DPH dentists in the whole nation! Talk about competitive!


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"His dentures are $ 9100"

Dude give me a break. Thats cool...I'm going to charge a billion dollars for molar RCT. 1 billion. Only going to market to rich people who will pay this. I'm going to be rich. I've never heard of Prosthodontists charging this much....anyone who pays that for 2 slabs of acrylic is just dumb.
 
"His dentures are $ 9100"

Dude give me a break. Thats cool...I'm going to charge a billion dollars for molar RCT. 1 billion. Only going to market to rich people who will pay this. I'm going to be rich. I've never heard of Prosthodontists charging this much....anyone who pays that for 2 slabs of acrylic is just dumb.
There's a saying about fools and their money...
 
"His dentures are $ 9100"

Dude give me a break. Thats cool...I'm going to charge a billion dollars for molar RCT. 1 billion. Only going to market to rich people who will pay this. I'm going to be rich. I've never heard of Prosthodontists charging this much....anyone who pays that for 2 slabs of acrylic is just dumb.

Hey I didn't say that you do it. I was just stating the fact that if you are after the most money then, there are other way to find FOOLS that will pay you and make you rich. You don't need to specialize to be successful in dentistry. Specialize because you love the field, you make good money either way.

I personally think that specializing just because you will make more money is just as dumb. I know few people at my school who are only specializing because they will make more money. they even talk like which is better, Endo or Ortho financially.
 
I think dental public health is the hardest one to get into. I read in my public health book last semester that there are only 400 DPH dentists in the whole nation! Talk about competitive!

Lol, yes, dental pub health is most def an up-and-comer.

You know, I was talking to one of the dental pub health residents at my school and they actually said they never got more than 1 application a year for last five years.
 
i wanted to bring this thread back a little:

Does anyone have any information on OMF radiologists?

How difficult is it to practice or obtain this specialty?

Is it competitive? sought after?

How is it ranked or compared in salary/lifestyle with others?

Thank you.
🙂
 
OR.....

Dental Anesthesiology??

any information? 👍

thanks.
 
From my experience:

Dental Radiology is not really an equivalent to General Radiology in medicine as many pre-dents think. As reading xrays is part of a general dentists day to day practice, there is very little for a OMFR to do outside of academia. The specilty programs are generally not competitive and there are very few programs (5) and applicants (27 total applications in the most recent year I have data for). I'd imagine salary/lifestyle is on par with other academic specialties, but might move you along the academic ranks faster as there are not many boarded OMFRs in the country.

Dental anesthesiology I don't have lots of information on, but from what I've heard it's a good deal. I believe it's intermediately competitive, and I read somewhere on here they look for high didactic, but not neccesarily clinical GPAs. Private practice is apparently good, with a very low overhead and lots of autonomy. From what I understand it's a "truck type" specialty, where you go from office to office providing care at the host dentists facilities. It's also, according to the OMFS director at Highland hospital, the best backup route to an OMFS residency.
 
From my experience:

Dental Radiology is not really an equivalent to General Radiology in medicine as many pre-dents think. As reading xrays is part of a general dentists day to day practice, there is very little for a OMFR to do outside of academia. The specilty programs are generally not competitive and there are very few programs (5) and applicants (27 total applications in the most recent year I have data for). I'd imagine salary/lifestyle is on par with other academic specialties, but might move you along the academic ranks faster as there are not many boarded OMFRs in the country.

Dental anesthesiology I don't have lots of information on, but from what I've heard it's a good deal. I believe it's intermediately competitive, and I read somewhere on here they look for high didactic, but not neccesarily clinical GPAs. Private practice is apparently good, with a very low overhead and lots of autonomy. From what I understand it's a "truck type" specialty, where you go from office to office providing care at the host dentists facilities. It's also, according to the OMFS director at Highland hospital, the best backup route to an OMFS residency.

thats great info.

thank you. 👍

I was reading wikipedia and noticed that Anesthesiology was the latest branch added toward the dental specialties list. However, they forgot to change the list from 9 to 10 now.

I think I really would like the Anesthesiology rought in my career; i love the mechanisms of patient care in a time so critical..independently. just awesome.
 
in all honesty, some are hard to get in and some are not as hard. A small philosophy that quite a few of our faculty specialist have is that yes a 4.0 number 1 in class and 97 on boards will get you in but they really place a high value on experience. Coming from the Head of ortho dept with the chief OMFS resident nodding his head "Honestly we must take good applicant if they have all the right stuff, but you will really get my attention if you have practiced general dentistry for a few years, or GPR, because you have been through the ropes, you know what you like and don't. You have seen complex cases and didn't make a decision as a first year dental student, which most often want to specialize because of money. If you have been in the real world, you will have better work ethic and care about learning and being the best you can." However i would still say it would be hard to grad with a 2.75 and 80 on your boards. So all in all you may not get in as soon as you get out of dental school if you aren't top 10% but as long as you did ok you still have a great shot... hope this helps...
 
I get the feeling that a lot of ppl here put pros at the lower end of difficulty when it comes to getting it. I'm only a D2 and you have be even in residency, but I still dissagree. I think its not very productive to try to rank them in difficulty because there are unavoidable grey areas. Some schools pedo is not that hard to get into as compared to others and so forth. Some ortho programs are easier then some OMFS program.
 
I know this girl from my class got into pedo program. She's ranked 65 out of 110 students in my class. Her part I score is in the low 80, no research or volunteering experiences. So...I don't know how competitive pedo is comparing to other specialties, go figure.

You've been drinking a lot of kool-aid if you think perio and pros are more competitive than pedo. 😉
 
Specializing is incredibly easy; if you are an @$$hole, foreign(non-English speaking), or painfully boring then you're in. But then not everyone wants to be a periodontist...

Ouch, that's rude. 🙁

I want to be a periodontist and I don't qualify to any of these 😛

No offense taken hehe.
 
Ouch, that's rude. 🙁

I want to be a periodontist and I don't qualify to any of these 😛

No offense taken hehe.

you are foreign if you're from Montreal. Welcome to the club.
 
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