I need some advice...

[Optimistic 13]

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[natalieises]

This is a really tough situation. I think it all depends on how much you like the school you got accepted to. Did you ask if you could defer for a year? Sometimes you can do that if you have a great opportunity like an internship, job, etc. for the year. I know the economy looks tough right now, but if vet school is what you really want don't let the money scare you off. You just have to take out the loans and not worry about it. A ton of people will be in the same boat as you, so you won't be alone in the debt situation! Also, look into your in state school and see if they take transfer students, that may help.

Ultimately only you can make the decision, but I think that if you really like the school you got accepted to you shouldn't let money stand in your way. Being accepted to vet school is awesome, and I see that waiting a year could be scary not knowing if you'll get accepted again. Think about the risks vs the possible rewards.

If it were me, I'd be thrilled to go into debt for my dream job, but this is a very personal decision.

Good luck and congrats on your acceptance!!

(Also I know from my constant lurking on SDN that there was someone who turned down their in state school last year for whatever reason, and this year they didn't get accepted, but did get into another school. So that's always a risk to keep in mind)

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[DocDVMD]

I was debating about this same issue a little while ago and I decided it's not worth the risk to apply again and turn down whatever acceptances I was offered this cycle. I spoke to several vets and they agreed that I should take what I get and attend this fall. I think that schools tend to look down upon applicants who decline spots and re-apply for whatever reason. Obviously, it's a very personal decision, but with the difficulty of getting into vet school and the uncertainty of the future, I would go ahead and accept your spot at the OOS school. Plus, the earlier you graduate, the more years of salary you'll be earning to help pay off those loans.

 

[natalieises]

Yea it's a tough call. It's so hard to get in to school that it's scary to turn them down. What are your feelings on the school you did get into?

 

[VAgirl]

I've been accepted to an out of state school where tuition is about $40,000 a year, and rejected from my in state school where tuition is about $11,000.

What school has tuition of $11,000? And are you factoring in "fees" that sometimes are listed separately from tuition? (Not that that will really make up for $40K/yr OOS, of course.) I'm just surprised that there's a school out there with tuition at $11,000/yr. It's obviously not Tufts, though you list your location as MA...

I think your question about the financial picture are very smart, but turning down an offer to apply again next year is a risky endeavor. Maybe you should also look into some of the other options of paying for school (Army, USDA APHIS scholarships, etc).

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[robeezy08]

Also, how much money do you plan to make during one year off that will truly make a dent in that 100/200,00 debt you ultimately will accrue when you graduate? If you really love the school you were accepted to, I'd take the offer! I have yet to meet a vet who's in soo much debt that they couldn't pay back and still live a normal life - get married, raise a family, buy a house..etc.
I took a year to work after my Master's to "save money" before applying to vet school, and honestly, it wasn't enough money...but I gained a lot more hands on experience so am happy with the decision.
Hope this helps...good luck!

 

[OSJ]

I would take the OOS offer. In the long term, you will have one extra year to practice and be a vet so that might make a little bit of a dent in the extra cost. If you wait and don't get into your in state school again, your down 2 years of being a vet...

 

[VAgirl]

You just have to take out the loans and not worry about it. A ton of people will be in the same boat as you, so you won't be alone in the debt situation!

You post had good advice except for these two points. I know I'm going to sound like a jerk here, but with all the financial discussions that have been going on here at SDN lately, it surprises me to see people still saying things like this.

1) You do have to worry when you take out loans. You'll be paying them off for the next decade to several decades. Imagine how long that is. Honestly sit back and think about it. You will have different goals by that point in time. You will likely have a family and kids and may even be worrying about orthodontia, college, etc. for your own kids. You really want to just not worry about debt? And I don't mean worry in an unconstructive way, but worry in a constructive way like the OP is trying to do...figuring out whether the burden they're considering putting themselves under is going to haunt them down the road. It's an important question to ask yourself.

And 2) Just because other people are taking out insanely huge loans has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Or to do with you. Her debt burden is her own. Your debt burden is your own. When it comes time to pay, if you can't handle it, it matters diddly squat that other people have taken out similar amounts. I'd also like to point out here that the huge amounts of money that vet student are borrowing is relatively recent. Tuition has risen about 10% every. The average debt burden when student graduate from vet school today is a bit over $100,000. In 1999, ten years ago, it was $60,000. My point in this is that recent graduates are essentially still learning what is means to have these huge debt burdens and it hasn't really been fully tested by time whether it's even realistic to think that one can dig themselves out of these kinds of debt loads. Not to sound too doom and gloom, but I worry that people just assume that it's all be done before so there's no reason why they can't make that huge debt load work, too.

I suggest you read this article. http://www.ncvei.nl/articles/InvitingtheElephantintotheRoomfinalsummary.pdf It is eye opening.

Sorry, Optimistic, I didn't mean to freak you out even more, I just wanted to address natalieises' comments. I thought they needed addressing.

 

[VAgirl]

No, I'm not factoring in fees for either school. Both of those numbers are for tuition alone. My IS school is NCSU.

Damn, NSCU is cheap! How refreshing.

 

[LivestockDoc]

I understand your concern, and don't blame you one bit for hesitating on going with the expensive school.

The vet I work with right now had a previous employee who just went through the same dilemma. In the '07 cycle, she was rejected from CSU (IS) and accepted to Cornell. She declined the acceptance, reapplied this cycle, and will be enrolling at CSU this Fall. It was a risky thing to do, but it worked out for her.

Definitely a personal decision. I would schedule a post-mortem at your IS to see where the issues were (if there were any). That might help with your decision. Hopefully you can get one scheduled before you have to commit to the other school.

 

[VAgirl]

Definitely a personal decision. I would schedule a post-mortem at your IS to see where the issues were (if there were any). That might help with your decision. Hopefully you can get one scheduled before you have to commit to the other school.

Unfortunately, it sounds from comments others have made on there that NCSU doesn't do individual post mortems.

 

[natalieises]

Yea I see your points and I wasn't trying to say it doesn't matter. Obviously that much debt is something you have to think about, but my point was not to drive yourself crazy worrying about it every moment. Worrying won't pay the debt. Every person is different and that's why she ultimately has to make the decision for her.

I don't think it's wrong to say a lot of people will be in the same situation, because they will. Yes, some people have more opportunities to pay off the debt, but a lot are facing the same issue of having to pay all of that debt on their own. And yes the amount of debt may be more trying for some than others. However, if vet school is what she wants, then the debt is something that comes with it, no matter where you go. Obviously some schools are a lot more costly, which is the concern.

Don't assume that I'm being completely ignorant and that I just think everything will be easy. I was just trying to make a general statement that she shouldn't let money be the only thing stopping her in such a difficult situation because it isn't impossible and she won't be the only one going through it.

 

[rugbychick16]

I have yet to meet a vet who's in soo much debt that they couldn't pay back and still live a normal life - get married, raise a family, buy a house..etc.

I know two different young vets who are both delaying starting families and buying a house/land due to their 150 K+ debt load. When you're in a rural area and not making a superb income, it is a big deal. Also neither of their partners make especially high incomes. Kids are expensive.

 

[VAgirl]

I don't think it's wrong to say a lot of people will be in the same situation, because they will. Yes, some people have more opportunities to pay off the debt, but a lot are facing the same issue of having to pay all of that debt on their own. And yes the amount of debt may be more trying for some than others. However, if vet school is what she wants, then the debt is something that comes with it, no matter where you go. Obviously some schools are a lot more costly, which is the concern.

I don't think it's wrong to say other people will be in the same situation, just not a beneficial piece of information. Unless it's "hey, look at all of these people who have taken on the same debt load, have been out out of vet school and working for X amount of time now and are managing it without problems." That's one thing. Those are examples of how it can work. But saying, "hey, there will be lots of us in the same boat, we'll see how it turns out..." I'm just saying that has no relevance to the discussion because being in good company in debt really doesn't help inform a decision.

 

[natalieises]

I wasn't trying to go into huge explanations and I'm sorry if the point was muddled. The general idea should have been that a lot of people are taking on the same debt or already did and as of yet people are able to manage it. If they weren't managing people would stop taking on the debt, which we can't predict that it will always be this way. Of course the debt is getting higher these days, but it isn't an intangible idea.

Any amount of debt is a gamble because you never know how the economy will turn. It's a risk everyone has to debate for themselves.

 

[robeezy08]

I know two different young vets who are both delaying starting families and buying a house/land due to their 150 K+ debt load. When you're in a rural area and not making a superb income, it is a big deal. Also neither of their partners make especially high incomes. Kids are expensive.

I agree that your future plans and debt load depend on the lifestyle you choose to live after vet school. Is it possible to raise a family right after vet school? Maybe say if your other half makes enough money and you also choose employment at a much more lucrative hospital/pharma/university..etc.
I've been thinking about my debt load after I graduate and am considering the Army scholarship...3 years (you have the option of 3 or 4 years) active duty will go by pretty fast and your debt free after graduation. So there are options after you graduate, just depends on the sacrifices you're willing to make.

 

[chris03333]

I agree that your future plans and debt load depend on the lifestyle you choose to live after vet school. Is it possible to raise a family right after vet school? Maybe say if your other half makes enough money and you also choose employment at a much more lucrative hospital/pharma/university..etc.
I've been thinking about my debt load after I graduate and am considering the Army scholarship...3 years (you have the option of 3 or 4 years) active duty will go by pretty fast and your debt free after graduation. So there are options after you graduate, just depends on the sacrifices you're willing to make.

Don't forget the 5 years reserve you also have to serve.

 

[ckd816]

I don't have an IS, so of course it is easy for me to suggest that you take any offer you're given. That's obviously what I will have to do when I apply. Just remember that you applied to the OOS school where you were accepted for a reason, so you also must have felt comfortable with paying that OOS tuition at one point in time. Although I haven't applied yet, I still understand that it is a huge difference in cost. I know this point in the cycle can be stressful (for a good reason), but don't let your financial fears scare you off. Research all your options... Just food for thought! 🙂

 

[jglovicz]

To me, a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. I would take the OOS offer. I'm in the same boat (kind of). I was placed as an alternate at UCDavis (and from what I hear, they don't go through very many alternates). Chances are, I won't get in here and I will either end up at Iowa or Western (probably Iowa, though I still have some weighing of options). I really don't want to leave CA for a number of reasons (my boyfriend is in the middle of his PhD out here) aside from tuition. UCD (and NCSU for that matter) are incredibly competitive schools. There's never a guarantee that you'll get in again (just playing devil's advocate, I'm not saying you won't get in again). To me it wouldn't be worth the risk of having to apply for who knows how many application cycles. Just my two cents!

 

[nyanko]

lucrative....university

😆

good one.

 

[LivestockDoc]

Unfortunately, it sounds from comments others have made on there that NCSU doesn't do individual post mortems.

That's right. Forgot about that. Well, that does throw a wrench into things, doesn't it? Now that I know it's NCSU I will remove myself from the discussion. I have an inappropriate bias.

 

[Ben and Me]

Optimistic, I'm in the exact same boat. Luckily, I have parents that are going to try and help me out as much as they can, but my OOS option is still going to cost a lot more. I could've graduated debt-free from NCSU, but I wasn't admitted there, and I feel like their admissions process is too strange for me to attempt it again. If I could do a post-mortem with them and get real answers about what I could do to improve my application, I might consider it, but since that isn't an option, I'm too scared to take the risk.

Did you do your undergrad at NCSU? I didn't, and I feel like it may have hurt me in the admissions process.

Anyway, my advice is to take your OOS option and go for it, since that's what I'm doing. I've already emailed the NCVMA about scholarships, but unfortunately they don't offer scholarships to residents attending OOS (who really need them!)...maybe there are some other groups you could contact though?

 

[robeezy08]

😆

good one.

Hey it's actually possible to make more money as a lab animal vet vs. small animal vet...at a university. And even more if you choose pharma.

 

[robeezy08]

Don't forget the 5 years reserve you also have to serve.

Yes that's true, but you have the option to choose either 5 years active or 5 years inactive reserve....and from what I was told inactive reservists are less likely to be called into duty than active. So those 5 years as a reservists can be done at any civilian hospital and in any state you choose...at least that's my impression.

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[sumstorm]

Optimistic, I feel for you, and I don't have an opinion on this one 😱.

The only suggestion I can make is to calculate out how much you would take out in loans for each one and then look at how much you would have to pay each month for the duration of the loans (if you are anti-debt like I am, you might also look at how much you would have to pay each month to shorten the debt period to 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years.) Also, for each of those, look at how much TOTAL you would pay for your education. You may need to examine cost of living as well for each option (and remember tuition/cost of living may go up while you wait a year.)

Then, you have to answer some realistic questions about how much and how long you are willing to owe. I think, once you can answer that, you can calculate some rough estimates of how much you will make (include internship/residency if you will do those.) Then you can plot out how much you will have to live on each year as you pay off those loans, and be able to see if it is realistic for you (don't forget taxes.) Once you have done all that, compare where you would be at in the calendar year (ie in 2018 I would owe X while making Y with T payments/mo if I went to OOS vs the same numbers for IS. You might find that the OOS will balance out.... or that you have to double how much your willing to pay.

Can you apply for residency after the first year at the other school? That would affect the numbers as well.

I don't envy the choices you have to make. One thing to consider....can you continue to claim residency if you don't move back here and work here? That might affect your decisions.

You might also consider trying to bare bones it while living at the OOS school (see if you could rent a room somewhere instead of an apartment, learn to cook extremly cheap meals, commute without a car, etc.) There may be trade offs there that you are willing to make to start school now. I am a huge advocate of going into less debt IF POSSIBLE, but I also believe the bird in hand is worth 2 in the bushes...and admissions still seems incredibly random to me.

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[DocDVMD]

Hm, this thread is making me think a little bit more about my decision as well, but I'm still gonna stick with my OOS option (and 4 more OOS alternate lists!!😡). I think that with the extra-arbitrary nature of Cornell and NCSU's admissions processes (I still cannot believe what they did to you, Optimistic!) it's too risky to give up what we were given this cycle and try again next year. Aside from the cost of the applications (and interviews) themselves, think of all the stress and anxiety of waiting and dealing with the whole process again... maybe to not even be dealt as "good" of a hand that we were given this cycle!

 

[animallove]

This is a really tough one Optimistic. If vet school admissions didn't seem so random your decision would be simple. For me, if I get accepted off the waitlist to my OOS then I will go. I feel that I don't want to apply again and not be accepted. It has always been what I wanted to do, and I will manage to pay off the debt somehow. It is never guaranteed that you will get into vet school even if you got in one year.

Could you defer admission and they apply again to NCSU? I was thinking if they let you defer and then you were accepted to NCSU, you could go there. However, I don't know if you have to sign some agreement? .......

 

[sumstorm]

I keep thinking about this,and I know what I would do. I would go this year. I would do everything I can to minimize my costs. I would also go to NCSU's session. I would try to address every concern they had, and I would work my heart out at the other school, and apply to transfer.

I can't imagine delaying for a CHANCE of admissions. Unfortunatly, you might get to next year and have 100 people with 1600 GRE and 4.0's apply with 200 hours in every possible vet field. I couldn't take the chance. I hate the idea of all that money, but I would do it.

 

[tpad40]

My only thought about the transfer option...would you still be able to maintain NC residency if you went OOS for another school? In the residency topic - you live in Massachusetts, correct (go MA btw!)? How are you IS at NCSU? I only ask because I moved from MA last year and one of many reasons was to gain residency somewhere with a cheaper IS option so I have been forced to learn more than I wanted to about gaining residency 🙂

I'm sorry you're in such a tough spot 🙁. I still think you need to march down to NCSU with a pitchfork and demand some justice after that horrible mix-up 😡. If that doesn't work, what about gaining residency in a state with a school whose admissions criteria match you? I agree with others that it seems like a big risk to turn down an acceptance and try again. However, if you are confident that you will be a better applicant and truly improve your chances, it may be worth it. You will need to be prepared with facing the same situation again in a year - after one year of working/living frugally, will you be in enough of a better financial situation than you are right now?

I wish there was an easy answer, it is so annoying when there is a huge wall of debt blocking our dreams 🙁 But you are definitely doing the right thing by really considering both options - it is very tempting to just say "money is money" and accept OOS! Good luck with your decision

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[Ben and Me]

Hmm...I think it's hard to change your residency, but not too tough to keep it. I went to both high school (boarding school) and college OOS and had no problems keeping my NC residency. I'd just maintain a current NC drivers license and voter's registration. I do remember that the CVM residency application was no where near as tough as the UNC undergrad residency application (all 16 pages of it! Phew!). I don't remember it being something that would be hard to fill out truthfully even if you did live OOS for a while. You might be able to make an especially compelling argument for residency if your parents are still supporting you somehow (paying your car insurance, giving you spending money, etc). But, I'm not an expert on it, so don't take anything I say as gospel!

 

[IvyLynx]

Why is NCSU's (and Cornell's) admissions process random? Just curious.

I don't really have any advice or opinions. I just wanted to say that you applied to those schools for a reason. I know that you said that you are more than aware of finances now, but it's still something to remember. I want to say that I would go, but the difference in tuition is pretty insane so I can't say for sure.

Also, is everyone positive that NCSU doesn't do post-mortems? I know that is says they don't on the site, but has anyone asked? I had a friend that was rejected last year and she said that she had one. In person too. Maybe she knew someone on the admissions committee?

 

[GeeQued]

Sorry I got off a 14 hour shift so I only read the main posts so I apologize if my questions have already been answered. Does the OOS school allow you to gain residency, I know a portion do but its extremely difficult. Reapplying is extremely risky and I'd be terrified to do it. What I would recommend is start at the OOS and apply for a transfer for the 1st and 2nd years, I dont see many people realy truly applying for transfers except for unique circumstances and theres gonna be at least 1 person to drop out. In my mind if I didnt get into CSU I would apply as a transfer, but in reality once I started somewhere I prolly wouldnt change.

In the competitiveness of the applications I just really wouldnt risk reapplying next year without some assurance that you definitely had a seat (deferral)

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[IvyLynx]

hmm, i really wish they would do post-mortems again.

no, she got into tennessee last year and accepted a spot there.

 

[shelterURIgirl]

Here is a thought to consider:

How much money do you plan on making the first year after you graduate? For example, if you are planning on going into small animal private practice and the average salary of the graduating class is 70K, waiting for one year is going to cost you 70K. So maybe paying an extra 30K each year only amounts to 60K total. Also, some schools do allow some students to switch residency to in state. You should find out some more statistics to help you make your choice.

Also consider that the starting salaries of graduating vets has gone up each year and so has the cost of tuition.

So anyways, I think waiting a year is going to cost you more than you think. Personally, I would go with the OOS school because there is no guarantee that you will get into your IS school. This is your dream career we are talking about here. Think about how hard you have worked to achieve your dream of going to vet school. I wouldn't take any risks, but thats just me!

Hope this helps you.

 

[VAgirl]

Here is a thought to consider:

How much money do you plan on making the first year after you graduate? For example, if you are planning on going into small animal private practice and the average salary of the graduating class is 70K, waiting for one year is going to cost you 70K.

Just a quick note... after income taxes, $70K turns into only $49,000 (assuming 30% income tax between federal, state, etc...which, while it sounds like a lot, is a pretty reasonable estimate).

I know I've posted a lot of financially conservative comments, but if it were me, I think I, too, would choose to go to the OOS school that you have the offer from.