I need some input.

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Faze2

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I have a situation here that I am very worried about, and I wanted to get some advice. This is a unique one.

I am taking my pre req's at a 4 year university, and I am doing well so far. As a non trad, it is very important that I get A's in these classes. This summer I was planning on taking physics, then bio and Ochem next fall and spring. Here's the problem.

A lot of my friends in my chem II class this semester are taking Bio I (you kind of have to take Bio I after Chem I at this school). Everyday I hear EVERYONE in my class complaining about Bio. During a study group today everyone was talking about how unfair, not hard, but unfair Bio is. The tests have almost nothing to do with the material studied in class or in the book. For instance, for the first exam, the class average was a 54%! The highest grade IN THE ENTIRE CLASS was an 80%. The worst part is the professor, who they say is a huge bitch, DOES NOT CURVE! So your 80%, when the class average is a 54, is still a B-. The second exam was about the same. And this is a reputable university.

And my friends are not lazy. My buddy and this girl that I study chem II with are both very smart, hard working, and have a 4.0 so far. She's a junior, he's a 5th semester sophmore. (he transfered) They both said they studied their ass not just for the test but in general. They got a 75% on the test, which again, she will not curve. They both tell me that they have never before said that a class is "unfair" but that they absoutely do for this one. It is not a matter of difficulty, the tests are simply unfair. Everyone I talked to said they have never heard of ANYONE getting an A in this class. A girl I sit next to in class who got a perfect score on our first Chem test failed the Bio test. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, has said that this Bio class is not difficult, it is just absolutely unfair.

I am thinking about seeing if I can take BIO this summer at another school, and then go back and take Physics and OCHEM where I am now. Because of my low undergrad GPA, I cannot afford anything less than an A in my classes. If it were a matter of difficulty, I would suck it up and try my best. But no one getting an A in Bio I, THAT'S INSANE!!! I know the Physics and OCHEM profs so I know those classes, while difficult, are at least fair. But if I can take BIO at another school, which EVERYONE told me I should, where the class is at least reasonably fair, shoud I just do that? I am a pretty smart person. I was just lazy in my undergrad. But so far I have been getting A's in my pre-req's. I would hate to think of working my ass off in a class, only to get a C or at best a B. I know it is just one class, but in my situation, one bad grade in one class could make the difference.

Has anyone else ever been ina situation like this? My friend said he is writing to the head of the department because it is just totally ridiculous. (This is the kid with a 4.0. The reason I keep saying that is becuase I don't want anyone here to think that these are bad students who are just complaining about a hard class)
I gotta make a decision soon b/c registration for fall semester is a week and a half away.

BTW,
NO it does not matter what prof you have for Bio I, they all do not curve.

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About this curve situation, I have a very difficult time buying into the fact that these bio classes essentially give no A's. I have taken classes that don't curve during the quarter but at the end when all the grades are in they are forced to shift the curve in order to fit a bell-curve. This class can not possibly fail half the class, it is not a graduate course, nor do I believe that the university would allow this to happen. Could you post more information about this class, and this school? There has to be a reasonable explanation, this sort of thing is not allowed to happen.
 
About this curve situation, I have a very difficult time buying into the fact that these bio classes essentially give no A's. I have taken classes that don't curve during the quarter but at the end when all the grades are in they are forced to shift the curve in order to fit a bell-curve. This class can not possibly fail half the class, it is not a graduate course, nor do I believe that the university would allow this to happen. Could you post more information about this class, and this school? There has to be a reasonable explanation, this sort of thing is not allowed to happen.

+1

In my General Chem class, the syllabus clearly stated "there is no curve."

After half the class bombed the first test, one of the TA's told us that they do curve at the end of the semester. So that's most likely the same situation the OP is in.
 
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BTW,
NO it does not matter what prof you have for Bio I, they all do not curve.

Another prof might not curve, but might give better-written tests.

While TAing, I have come to the conclusion that "unfair" is the most overused word by teenagers, so it is difficult to know how much credence to give the problem -- but I sympathize about the something-to-prove, have-to-get-As. If you're really worried, investigate summer term elsewhere.
 
Strictly speaking, a "curve" means a normal distribution. In other words, as many A's as F's (and mostly a lot of C's). Most professors do not "curve" their grades in this way, and syllabi often explicitly state "grades are not curved". However, it is very common for grades to be adjusted at the end of the semester. This affords the professor much more latitude in assigning grades (for example, if the class as a whole did fairly well, he/she could assign a lot more A's than would be permitted under a normal distribution). Typically, this freedom works to the students' advantage, as this results in a lot more A's than would be expected under a traditional normal distribution.

Students are often upset when confronted with a policy that states "grades are not curved", not understanding the technical meaning of this phrase.

If the mean is in the 50's and there is no adjustment (NOT curve) made at the end of the semester, you would obviously end up with >50% failing grades. This would generally be considered a very poor reflection on the PROFESSOR (i.e., this individual would be considered unable to teach effectively). Further, it would generally not be tolerated by a department chair because it is so out-of-bounds with regard to typical grading policies. I'm not saying the end-of-semester mean couldn't be in the 50's, but I can guarantee you won't see half the class failing. I had physics classes with means in the 30's, but A's went to everyone with a 55 average or above.

Presumably this professor has taught before; if that is in fact true, stop listening to the pre-med rumor mill and contact the department chair directly and ask what percentage of the class was awarded A's, B's, C's etc. in previous semesters. Or ask the professor. In any case, this information is not privileged or confidential and, if you ask in a calm, professional manner (not whiny and accusatory) it should be made available to you.

Also, omit any variant of the term "fair" from your vocabulary. The amount of times a student uses this term seems to be inversely proportional to academic performance. Sometimes circumstances ARE unfair; that's life. Your job is to succeed despite the obstacles in your path; it is not life's job to remove all those obstacles. If you make it to medical school and on to residency, you will also encounter many situations which are unfair, so best get used to it now.
 
Bingo on the "fairness" comment. Life isn't fair, therefore if you ever want to be successful in medicine omit any ideas of "fairness". Is it "fair" for insurance companies to determine the outcomes of patient care by telling a physician what they will and won't reimburse for? Of course not. Is it "fair" for malpractice insurers to raise their rates by double digits when the actual number of malpractice suits are dropping? Nope.

OP, you need to drop this idea that others aren't being fair to you ASAP if you want to make it. The most important outlook to have during this process is personal accountability. YOU are responsible for YOUR accomplishments/shortcomings. One of the most tired posts on SDN is the "I applied late and got screwed". Well, if you are organized and place emphasis on getting submissions in as early as possible then you won't have to worry about "getting screwed".

If you think one undergrad professor is "unfair" just wait until the application process, grow up.
 
First, I would follow Tired Pigeon's suggestions of going right to the source (i.e. the professor or the science department) and find out how the distribution really plays out.

If however, you just don't want to chance it, I would check into taking the class at another school. I've seen a few students in my CC science classes that have chosen to take the class as a transient student.

If it is a state school, and the course numbers are the same whatever school you attend in the state (i.e., in Florida, the classes have either the same number whether it is a 2-yr or 4-yr), you should have no problems, the university should accept that class as part of your GPA. Just remember to have the transcript from this other school sent to AMCAS, when you apply.
 
Bingo on the "fairness" comment. Life isn't fair, therefore if you ever want to be successful in medicine omit any ideas of "fairness". Is it "fair" for insurance companies to determine the outcomes of patient care by telling a physician what they will and won't reimburse for? Of course not. Is it "fair" for malpractice insurers to raise their rates by double digits when the actual number of malpractice suits are dropping? Nope.

OP, you need to drop this idea that others aren't being fair to you ASAP if you want to make it. The most important outlook to have during this process is personal accountability. YOU are responsible for YOUR accomplishments/shortcomings. One of the most tired posts on SDN is the "I applied late and got screwed". Well, if you are organized and place emphasis on getting submissions in as early as possible then you won't have to worry about "getting screwed".

If you think one undergrad professor is "unfair" just wait until the application process, grow up.


I"m sure the OP, being an nontrad, is more than aware that there are some things that are not fair. I don't think the "grow up" statement was called for.
 
I"m sure the OP, being an nontrad, is more than aware that there are some things that are not fair. I don't think the "grow up" statement was called for.

Yeah dude, f*** you. I am not complaining about the class being fair to me, cause I haven't taken it yet. I am simply saying what my friends who are taking the class told me. Believe me I know that life is unfair. You don't have to remind me of that fact. And I know all about "adjusting" grades instead of "curiving" grades too. Remember I have been through 4 years of college already. I know how grading systems work. Everyone who has taken this class says that they do not "adjust" anything at the end of the semester. If you have an 85% at the end,when the class average is a 50% percent at the end, you still get a B.

Now obviously I am going to look into this further, i.e. the head of the department and my pre med counselor, I was simply asking opinions from people who may have been in a situation such as this; if taking one class at a different institution would throw up a red flag to an admissions counsel. because we all know that even though their are rules professors have to follow, they can still screw you too.

And again, i am not listening to some 18 year old freshman who is calling daddy saying "college is too hard. It is soooo unfair." I am listening to two of the top students in my class who study their ass off for this and every class and both have a 4.0 as a bio major. Obviously these kids are hard workers, cause you don't get a 4.0 in that major without working your butt off. Anyone else here have a 4.0 in college? (not just post bacc) Yeah, me neither.

And to the "moms and dads" on this site, thanks for the lecture about life being unfair, but get out your agression elsewhere. Go to the gym, get laid or something. I know life is unfair and I am not expecting to get ANYTHING handed to me or even thrown to me. But please save my time and yours and refrain from the "if you can't take an unfair professor just wait until you get an unfair attending when your a resident...blah blah." I would not have even brought this subject up if I did not think there were some legitamate greivences from the students of this class. Life IS unfair, and from what I heard, so is this class. So I will "deal with it" it whatever way I can, but do not misinterpret me and think I am trying to take the easy way out.
 
I am listening to two of the top students in my class who study their ass off for this and every class and both have a 4.0 as a bio major. Obviously these kids are hard workers, cause you don't get a 4.0 in that major without working your butt off.
If they are bio majors with 4.0 in their major, how is it that they are now taking Bio 1?

Anyway, I agree with Krisss17 that the "grow up" comments are uncalled for, but when you start saying "f*** you" to people, it makes it kind of hard for folks to want to help you here.
 
Yeah dude, f*** you. I am not complaining about the class being fair to me, cause I haven't taken it yet. I am simply saying what my friends who are taking the class told me. Believe me I know that life is unfair. You don't have to remind me of that fact. And I know all about "adjusting" grades instead of "curiving" grades too. Remember I have been through 4 years of college already. I know how grading systems work. Everyone who has taken this class says that they do not "adjust" anything at the end of the semester. If you have an 85% at the end,when the class average is a 50% percent at the end, you still get a B.

Now obviously I am going to look into this further, i.e. the head of the department and my pre med counselor, I was simply asking opinions from people who may have been in a situation such as this; if taking one class at a different institution would throw up a red flag to an admissions counsel. because we all know that even though their are rules professors have to follow, they can still screw you too.

And again, i am not listening to some 18 year old freshman who is calling daddy saying "college is too hard. It is soooo unfair." I am listening to two of the top students in my class who study their ass off for this and every class and both have a 4.0 as a bio major. Obviously these kids are hard workers, cause you don't get a 4.0 in that major without working your butt off. Anyone else here have a 4.0 in college? (not just post bacc) Yeah, me neither.

And to the "moms and dads" on this site, thanks for the lecture about life being unfair, but get out your agression elsewhere. Go to the gym, get laid or something. I know life is unfair and I am not expecting to get ANYTHING handed to me or even thrown to me. But please save my time and yours and refrain from the "if you can't take an unfair professor just wait until you get an unfair attending when your a resident...blah blah." I would not have even brought this subject up if I did not think there were some legitamate greivences from the students of this class. Life IS unfair, and from what I heard, so is this class. So I will "deal with it" it whatever way I can, but do not misinterpret me and think I am trying to take the easy way out.

Wow, relax. It's a little ironic to see you tell people to "get out your aggression elsewhere" but open your post with, "Yeah dude, f*** you."

First of all, if you know the difference between a curve and an end-of-semester adjustment, then why are you complaining that these classes "don't curve"? Second, the only reason we all jump on the use of the word "fair" is because it is, in fact, grossly overused. It seems like there is a class or two like this at every university -- i.e., fairly difficult, a lot expected of students, maybe harder than other 'same level' classes elsewhere. And the reality is that most students who don't do as well as they would like in these classes say the classes are 'unfair'. Those that whine the loudest are the always the pre-meds who "have a 4.0 up to this point" because they "study their ass off". It never seems to occur to them that maybe 1) their study approach may be wholly inappropriate for this particular class/teacher (e.g., focusing on facts/definitions rather than application of broad concepts) and/or 2) not everyone has the innate ability get an A in every class, even if they "study their ass off".

Also, like Kriss, I am confused as to how these "bio majors" are just now taking Bio I.
 
As far as taking a course at another college - you should have a reason to be able to explain it seperate from negative comments about the professor. Things like the timing of the class working better with your work schedule, etc, or taking it over the summer if it typically fills at the university... have a reasonable explanation for it that doesn't come accross like you are trying to be manipulative. I had to split courses between the local junior college and the local university for my post-bac classes I needed - totally based on the class schedules since I was working full time. I couldn't be in class 5 days a week - needed everything on T/Th, everybody asked but understood when I explained it.
 
You are all right. The whole f*** you thing was uncalled for and I apologize. I "should have gone to the gym or gotten laid".:laugh:
And I know it makes it hard for people to want to help me when I make comments like that. But if you look at my other posts you will see they are mostly positive and encouraging. I can take critizism no problem, just make it constructive critizism. "grow up" and :oops: "f**k you":oops: solve nothing.

As for your question about why they are just taking bio I now, as for the one kid, he transferred from another college where he was an engineering major as a freshman and sopmore. All of his credits did not transfer, so he had to take some extra classes in the fall. All that aside, at this university, even if you are a Bio major, they do not offer the Bio I required for med school until the spring because they feel chem I should be taken first in the fall and then Bio I along with Chem II in the spring term. I know, it is stupid. (before you all ask too, I know a lot of kids that take Bio II in the fall and then Bio I in the spring and some of them even recommend it, saying it is better that way)

As for the girl, she changed majors her junior year, which is why she is only now taking Bio I. (they both took Physics, chem I, and Calc though their freshman and sophmore years).
Sorry if I made it sound like they were bio majors the whole time.

And i understand that classes are going to be different levels of difficulty at different universities, and yes, the way you study for Chem or Calc may not be the most efficient way to study for Bio, or philosphy. I understand that. But to have an undergraduate "freshman" class where the highest grade is an 80 and their is no "curve" or "adjustment", it just seems like their is something wrong with the professor, the tests, or the class. And at this point I cannot afford to slip up one bit. I have and will continue to work my a** off to get A's, so I don't want anyone to think that I am being lazy or do not want to work, cause I am actually really enjoying being the nerd in class that is doing well and helping the other students.

As I said, I am going to look into this MYSELF futher and not go on what my classmates say. I will be sure to let you all know what I find out.
 
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Here is some less critical advice. Do as you are doing, contact the office, contact your counselor. I don't think you are getting the whole story. As was said earlier, failing half the class would reflect poorly on the teacher and the school, as a result they will not let it happen. Keep us informed, I'm interested to see how this turns out.
 
Yes, please let us know, Faze. We're interested to see how this turns out.

By the way, if the department chair DOES confirm that more than half the class receives failing grades, I would ask how they can justify charging tuition for such a poorly-taught class? Seriously, you are the consumer here & have every right to expect a reasonable value for your investment.
 
If you think one undergrad professor is "unfair" just wait until the application process, grow up.

Well, that was unnecessary. :thumbdown: At the ripe old age of 30 with lots of life experiences, I still use the term "unfair" occasionally. Just because the world isn't fair doesn't mean people are justified for treating people poorly.

I guess you can tell me to grow up, oh wise one. :rolleyes:
 
After having taken somewhere around 260 credit hours, I have had professors that grade in every way imaginable. I think that it is both "unfair" and ignorant to assume that because you have never had a class where no one was given A's and half the class fails, that it doesn't happen. It happens on a regular basis. I have had several classes where I technically got a B or an A and it was scaled downward. It does happen. I've had other classes where 1/3 of the class drops, another 1/3 fails, and most everybody else gets Bs and Cs but maybe 1 or 2 As in a class of 100+. I used to think of these classes as a challenge with the mentality of 'bring it on'. However, since becoming a premed in the last year and a half, I would personally suggest to the OP to avoid the class altogether and go elsewhere where you know you have the chance to get the A.
 
To the OP: I took physics at a small, much less well known 4-year college than my post-bacc institution so I wouldn't have to take calculus-based physics. It had been so long since I had taken calculus that I didn't think I would do very well if I had to take it. In the end, no one ever ended up asking me about it at any of my interviews, and it never seemed to be an issue. I honestly don't think the Adcoms even noticed. From what I have heard, the only school switches that raise eyebrows are when students opt to take the really tough classes, like Orgo I and II, at a community college.

So honestly, my advice would be that if it turns out that the bio class truly does only offer B- grades and lower, take it at the other school - the biggest drawback is having to enter in a new institution and order an extra transcript for AMCAS.

And IMO, when you were talking about that "unfair class", it did remind me a little bit of the whiny undergrads - something about the way you described it opened up a flood of memories of my post-bacc days! ;-) But I am sure you weren't trying to complain about how tough life is or anything like that ... and I agree with DoctorBagel that life CAN be unfair and it is totally okay to whine about it from time to time. That's what these forums are for!
 
After having taken somewhere around 260 credit hours, I have had professors that grade in every way imaginable. I think that it is both "unfair" and ignorant to assume that because you have never had a class where no one was given A's and half the class fails, that it doesn't happen. It happens on a regular basis. I have had several classes where I technically got a B or an A and it was scaled downward. It does happen. I've had other classes where 1/3 of the class drops, another 1/3 fails, and most everybody else gets Bs and Cs but maybe 1 or 2 As in a class of 100+. I used to think of these classes as a challenge with the mentality of 'bring it on'. However, since becoming a premed in the last year and a half, I would personally suggest to the OP to avoid the class altogether and go elsewhere where you know you have the chance to get the A.

If it happens on such a regular basis then why is the OP even questioning what he should do. It seems that the question was asked because he was in a situation that he had not been in before. Hmmm, interesting, I would really not want to have gone to your undergrad if this is a common occurance.

Scaling down? Of course this happens, its happened to me too, I don't think that was the argument. When the curve is too high, ie class was too easy, some schools, some professors feel it is necessary to shift the curve in order to make things seem more reputable. No school wants to give away "easy A's", at least, they shouldn't.

Last but not least, I've been in a similar situation, weed-out classes. Mine was physics for engineers at Purdue. About 1/3 of the class did drop out, and the average on most tests were around 35%, yet I managed an A, a few others managed B's, still more received C's, some D's, some F's. Hmmm, sounds like a bell-curve shift. As I said, I have never heard of institutions failing half of a class just to make a point. I may be wrong, so correct me, what school and class was this? I'm not above mistakes, I have no desire to be ignorant, but when you make it seem like a rampaging problem and nobody else seems to echo this I have difficulty believing that I am the one that is ignorant.

Honestly, I would like to know the school and class that did this.
 
Well, if you really must interrogate, I will succumb. I have attendend three different undergraduate institutions for differing reasons and have encountered classes such as this also for approximately three different reasons. My first undergraduate institution was the Colorado School of Mines in Golden Colorado and, at least in the mid-nineties, they had a policy of having every class have an average of 80% or lower to make sure their average GPA for the school stayed below 3.0, or so that is what one particular professor stated. Although there is more than one instance, I received approximately an 82% in calc-based Physics II, and it was scaled down to a C since we had no + or - in our grading system. I believe, although I would not know, that not many Ds or Fs were handed out but most people, over half, generally got Cs. Mind you, at that particular time, CSM had an entering ACT average of about 30 and almost everyone that I knew had near a 4.0 GPA from high school. This policy was to ensure CSM's reputation as an extremely rigorous school. I got pregnant during the middle of that semester and had to drop out of CSM and return home to Nebraska after 3 semester and 63 credit hours.

However, an 80% or slightly below average is higher than the averages that I have tended to see in the pre-med weeder type courses at my big state research U, U of NE. In my experience, grade distribution tends to be about 1/3 D's and F and maybe 10-15% As. Most people again get Cs. Average grades tend to be around 75% but professors tend to do whatever they want. I believe from hanging around this school for the last 10 years (Undergrad, grad school, and working in a research position here for the last 3 years) that the reason for this is to really sort out those who have the potential for postgraduate studies, but I do not really know. In my experience, big state research U professors tend to care less about being 'fair' in grading policies than a place like Purdue would and I do not believe it is out of the realm of possilbility that the OP is accurate in his description of the BIO course.

My example of only giving one or two A's in a large class actually comes from my local community college. I took both Anatomy and Physiology at a CC and these classes were pre-reqs for their nursing program. They had a waitlist 2 years long and according to our instuctor, the department had a set requirement that their average for the classes in the BIO department must be below 70%, and that was after at least a 1/3 of the class dropped. Most everyone in the classes were CNA's and knew quite a bit. I learned more from those classes than I ever could have at my University. Only 1 or 2 As were handed out.

If you would like me to give you more examples, I could but I would really rather tend to my 1 year old. I believe that these types of classes do happen regularly especially at public institutions. If you have been shielded from this phenomenon, you are lucky. Oh yeah, I only mentioned the scaling down thing because someone said that scaling usually only works to someone's advantage.

In addition, I do not believe that regular basis is equal to rampaging problem. Why the inflammation?
 
If it happens on such a regular basis then why is the OP even questioning what he should do. It seems that the question was asked because he was in a situation that he had not been in before. Hmmm, interesting, I would really not want to have gone to your undergrad if this is a common occurance.

Scaling down? Of course this happens, its happened to me too, I don't think that was the argument. When the curve is too high, ie class was too easy, some schools, some professors feel it is necessary to shift the curve in order to make things seem more reputable. No school wants to give away "easy A's", at least, they shouldn't.

Last but not least, I've been in a similar situation, weed-out classes. Mine was physics for engineers at Purdue. About 1/3 of the class did drop out, and the average on most tests were around 35%, yet I managed an A, a few others managed B's, still more received C's, some D's, some F's. Hmmm, sounds like a bell-curve shift. As I said, I have never heard of institutions failing half of a class just to make a point. I may be wrong, so correct me, what school and class was this? I'm not above mistakes, I have no desire to be ignorant, but when you make it seem like a rampaging problem and nobody else seems to echo this I have difficulty believing that I am the one that is ignorant.

Honestly, I would like to know the school and class that did this.

Just in case you were wondering,I was not the one who posted the passage you quoted, that was someone else.This HAS NEVER happeened to me before in my entire undergrad, that is why I asked. I've heard of hard classes, but nothing like this. BTW, today I spoke to my lab partner who told me the same thing.

Since you asked, this is Bio I at Temple University, taught by Dr. Tanaka. It does not matter if you take another professor, because she makes all of the tests. The other prof is just this little timid guy that does what she says and is basically afraid of her.
 
Well, if you really must interrogate, I will succumb. I have attendend three different undergraduate institutions for differing reasons and have encountered classes such as this also for approximately three different reasons. My first undergraduate institution was the Colorado School of Mines in Golden Colorado and, at least in the mid-nineties, they had a policy of having every class have an average of 80% or lower to make sure their average GPA for the school stayed below 3.0, or so that is what one particular professor stated. Although there is more than one instance, I received approximately an 82% in calc-based Physics II, and it was scaled down to a C since we had no + or - in our grading system. I believe, although I would not know, that not many Ds or Fs were handed out but most people, over half, generally got Cs. Mind you, at that particular time, CSM had an entering ACT average of about 30 and almost everyone that I knew had near a 4.0 GPA from high school. This policy was to ensure CSM's reputation as an extremely rigorous school. I got pregnant during the middle of that semester and had to drop out of CSM and return home to Nebraska after 3 semester and 63 credit hours.

However, an 80% or slightly below average is higher than the averages that I have tended to see in the pre-med weeder type courses at my big state research U, U of NE. In my experience, grade distribution tends to be about 1/3 D's and F and maybe 10-15% As. Most people again get Cs. Average grades tend to be around 75% but professors tend to do whatever they want. I believe from hanging around this school for the last 10 years (Undergrad, grad school, and working in a research position here for the last 3 years) that the reason for this is to really sort out those who have the potential for postgraduate studies, but I do not really know. In my experience, big state research U professors tend to care less about being 'fair' in grading policies than a place like Purdue would and I do not believe it is out of the realm of possilbility that the OP is accurate in his description of the BIO course.

My example of only giving one or two A's in a large class actually comes from my local community college. I took both Anatomy and Physiology at a CC and these classes were pre-reqs for their nursing program. They had a waitlist 2 years long and according to our instuctor, the department had a set requirement that their average for the classes in the BIO department must be below 70%, and that was after at least a 1/3 of the class dropped. Most everyone in the classes were CNA's and knew quite a bit. I learned more from those classes than I ever could have at my University. Only 1 or 2 As were handed out.

If you would like me to give you more examples, I could but I would really rather tend to my 1 year old. I believe that these types of classes do happen regularly especially at public institutions. If you have been shielded from this phenomenon, you are lucky. Oh yeah, I only mentioned the scaling down thing because someone said that scaling usually only works to someone's advantage.

In addition, I do not believe that regular basis is equal to rampaging problem. Why the inflammation?

Just so you know, Purdue IS a big state research U in Indiana, and believe me when it came to engineering they wanted to make sure they were viewed as rigorous, therefore, they really didn't care about being "fair" either. They did however believe in being realistic, and realistically you can't consistantly fail over half of a class.

Anyway, I asked for examples and you provided them, what can I say. As far as being insulated from these instances I would respond by saying that I believe that you have had an unfortunate string of professors. As I said before, I, nor anyone that I know personally, have ever dealt with professors who are allowed to willingly fail any amount that they see fit. As far as big research U being the main culprit I would have to say that among those that I know from U of Wisconsin, UMich, Ohio State, Purdue, and Penn State. I have never heard complaints about professors with what is essentially free reign over students to the degree you are describing.

Anyway, I'm also getting tired of this, I'm sorry that you had to deal with these individuals, congratulations on being a mother. That is a far greater accomplishment than proving that you memorized the Krebs cycle for some ancient old professor.
 
Just in case you were wondering,I was not the one who posted the passage you quoted, that was someone else.This HAS NEVER happeened to me before in my entire undergrad, that is why I asked. I've heard of hard classes, but nothing like this. BTW, today I spoke to my lab partner who told me the same thing.

Since you asked, this is Bio I at Temple University, taught by Dr. Tanaka. It does not matter if you take another professor, because she makes all of the tests. The other prof is just this little timid guy that does what she says and is basically afraid of her.

Yes I am aware that you didn't post that passage, that's why in the passage it said that I was quoting t-funk.

Like I said, this argument is tiresome, if what you say is in fact true then take bio somewhere else. However, be ready to explain why you did so in an interview because taking med school pre-reqs outside of your home university is going to send up red flags. Just a thought.
 
Yes I am aware that you didn't post that passage, that's why in the passage it said that I was quoting t-funk.

Like I said, this argument is tiresome, if what you say is in fact true then take bio somewhere else. However, be ready to explain why you did so in an interview because taking med school pre-reqs outside of your home university is going to send up red flags. Just a thought.

Just make sure it is a 4 year university and you don't make it a habit - Bio I outside your uni should be fine. Again, like I said before, no one raised an eyebrow when i did the same thing with Physics.
 
Just make sure it is a 4 year university and you don't make it a habit - Bio I outside your uni should be fine. Again, like I said before, no one raised an eyebrow when i did the same thing with Physics.

+1 for the interview experience. I was never questioned about where my classes were taken (of course I took "harder" ones at the more difficult school). Especially as non-trads, we have taken a lot of courses by the time we apply. They are much more concerned with the grades attached.
 
I talked to the pre-med counselor at my school. She said she never heard of anything like that, the professor failing everyone and never giving A's. However, I should point out that this semester is her very first one at Temple, so I am not sure how much I trust her. She also told me that going to the head of the bio department would not be a good idea, because she said to me that "you never know who is connected to who", or who you might piss off by "questioning a professor's style of teaching". She said that going to someone may throw up some red flags about me as as student and that that may come back to bite me in the ass. I understand what she means, but the idea that a professor would recognize my name first of all, in a school of thousands and thousands of students, and hold a grudge against me months later because of a question I had about a professor seems a little childish to me. But unfortunately, it is not SO far fetched. Profs can be d*cks.

Even so, I have looked around at other schools and it does not seem that any other institutions are offereing BIO I and II this summer. I did not look into the CC, but I'd really rather not go to a CC. So I might just suck it up and take the Bio class there and do my best. I am sure that I will go to her office the first week and have the old "what do I need to do in this class to get an A" speech. I'll just have to see.
 
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