I really need some advice...

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

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dragon--I have thought about waiting and applying for DO, but 1) I don't want to be restricted to the US and 2) I feel I am getting too old to wait and apply, fail, repeat...and I feel like I have a legitimate chance of making it at Ross. I have done research and spoken to people who went to Ross, have obtained residencies and are now practicing in the US as well as to people who failed and are now back in the US trying to figure their lives out. The difference is that some people go down there and keep up their bad habits from undergrad. Some just aren't cut out for med school, it's true. I'm not trying to make up excuses, it was my fault that I had a 3.2 GPA and a 26M MCAT, but I also was going through 2 major felony "trials" (they didn't go to trial but I didn't know it at that time) during my junior year into my senior year (even though they came out to nothing and were dismissed I didn't and couldn't quit school).

I have done some research and it seems that SGU is comparable to Ross as far as residency goes (for the majority of programs that is), for much much more tuition. It just isn't worth it to me.

And Pirate...I know, it was like a horrible nightmare to me too...like something I would watch on Law and Order or something. But it did happen.

Getting too old? Are you pushing 40?

 

[dragonfly99]

Well, you may be one of the ones who goes down there and makes it. But I can tell you from the other side (fellowship) that I think DO is safer and I don't think that in general you would be restricted to the U.S.
I also am curious about how old you actually are and how long you've been waiting. If "old" is 24 or 25, then I think I disagree with your strategy. If you could pull up your MCAT a few points and take a few more classes, it sounds like you'd definitely be competitive for several DO schools and perhaps for some US MD schools, though the latter would be more of a long shot. It sounds like you have some disadvantages in your background and so might have a shot at getting in to a US med school via some sort of linkage program/assistance...I know most are geared toward underrepresented minorities but there may be something out there for you. The 3.2 GPA is definitely going to hurt you in applications, but depending on the overall trend and the science GPA, may not be the kiss of death for DO schools.

You might want to rethink whether SGU is worth the extra money if they have significantly higher USMLE pass rate. It may just be that Ross has softer admissions criteria, but it may also be the teaching/learning experience as well. You don't want to be penny wise/pound foolish...if you don't pass the USMLE, you won't be doing ANY residency in the U.S. Also, how about that place SABA? Don't they have a high USMLE pass rate and high rate of students staying in (rather than failing out?). I don't know for sure...just asking.

 

[whatcanido]

I have been communicating with many residency boards who have informed me that most of their Carib residents are Ross students...now even though Ross admits more students than the other "Big 4" it is still comparable to SGU for the #1 position (that is what the residency board members told me). And for like $10,000 more per semester it really isn't worth it to me.

Saba isn't as well respected as SGU or Ross, even though the USMLE pass rate is high and the attrition rate is low (again, something any of the residency board members said was that they hardly ever even interviewed a Saba graduate).

You see, I believe the problem with Ross and it's high attrition is that it takes so many students per semester (like 300-400) and their stats are low (like mine) but they give them a chance. Some people don't take the chance and run with it; they keep the bad habits they had in undergrad. In short, I don't believe it is a Ross problem, I believe it is a personal problem with these students. I know there are difference in quality of schools but come on, embryology, biochem, immuno... they are the same anywhere you study them...it is all about the drive that the student has.

And believe me...I have the drive. I have been receiving really positive feedback from the residency boards and licensing boards regarding my legal issues and I feel like I've been given a "second chance." I am not going to muck that up for anything. I have no attachments (babies, boyfriends or anything of the kind) to get in the way...just me and the books. I need to just buckle down and study hard. NO EXCUSES.

 

[dragonfly99]

Because Ross has/had more students, more people will have heard of it. That doesn't mean the quality of the instruction or the grads it turns out is better or the same as these other schools. SABA is newer and so likely fewer people have heard of it. I don't know about the quality of the education there, but the fact that not many people fail out and that they have a high board pass rate suggests that they are doing something right. I think it would be worth extra money to have a higher chance of passing the boards, if I were in your shoes, but I can see your point about not wanting to pay for St. George U. I still think if you look at the big picture you would be better off at a DO school and it doesn't seem that you're that far away from being competitive. People have these prejudiced against DO schools but the reality of the situation is that they have a much, much lower attrition rate, and fewer students, than these Caribbean schools. Furthermore, they have their own residency programs as well as allowing their students to match out into US MD programs. Also, the students from those schools that I have worked with have been just fine.

I think that premeds have a lot of unrealistic ideas about what med school and practicing as a physician are going to be like. How could they know what is ahead of them? I can tell you that the quality of instruction in med school is important, and it's not all your "motivation" or you "buckling down". Those things might allow you to pass and even pass the USMLE, but the one on one and small group teaching in med school is super important, and I'm just skeptical about the ability of these med schools that have hundreds and hundreds of students to provide that. Also, their ability to control quality of instruction during 3rd and 4th years, where students are spread out at all these different hospitals, has got to be questioned. I worked with a student from Ross recently, a 4th year, and he was very smart, but I and others who worked with him are still worried that he won't get a good residency. He also basically said that setting up his 4th year clinical rotations was basically all up to him - trust me, that's not another thing you want to add to the stresses and other responsibilities of med school.

There are just a lot of qualified people fighting for these US residency spots and you need to look at the big picture. If you are willing to limit yourself to psychiatry, family practice, general internal med or physical medicine/rehab then you may do O.K. I still think that US schools, and perhaps other alternatives such as optometry or PA school, need to be looked at very hard by people considering these Caribbean schools. That or spend another year or two improving your application. I doubt that you or most of the other folks on here will listen to me, but I know what I'm talking about in terms of where these Carib grads end up. I wish nothing but success for anyone who has the grit to get through those schools, but it's not just a matter of going down there and graduating, even if you are able to do that. There's a lot of crap involved in getting a decent residency and getting a license.

 

[hippiedoc13]

I'm kinda surprised that no one has said this yet, but what I find more concerning than the 3 criminal charges is the way you recount it. At every turn of the story, there is an excuse and a failure to take responsibility for bad decisions. This extends not just to the criminal charges, but even to your account of your academic shortcomings. Taking all of that together, if I were on an admissions committee or a residency selection committee (and I am/have been on both...) I would seriously question your maturity and ability to handle the responsibilities of practicing medicine.

Maybe you have just had bad luck in life. But with each successive post, I see growing evidence for a clear pattern of poor judgment and lack of accountability. Yes, people can mature and change. It just doesn't seem like you're there yet. No offense intended, but if you think the road to medicine has been tough so far, fasten your seatbelt, because it gets a LOT harder.

I point this out because I think you need to be very careful and re-assess. An admissions committee, residency selection committee, or medical board is likely to raise red flags based on the concerns I've pointed out above. Some may argue that I am in the minority in my impression here, and that may be a fair statement. But even if not everyone on a committee or board sees things my way, I've worked with enough people who share my perspective, that you can count on there always being 1 or 2 such members on any committee to raise these concerns.

My advice, in addition to the excellent advice by above posters to get a good lawyer and do all your legal homework now, is to seriously reflect about the way you explain all the negative things in your life. Figure out what your real responsibility is for those things, and then figure out how to discuss them in a way that reflect maturity, accountability, and growth. If you don't, that's likely to be a big obstacle in your future career, even after you get all the legal technicalities cleared up.

 

[dragonfly99]

agree w/hippiedoc.
Not that we know the OP's exact situation(s), but I agree she comes off as someone who maybe isn't taking responsibility for her past choices and actions.

 

[dpmd]

I remember being asked to disclose all crimes (arrested, expunged, etc) for my residency application. I know for sure it was asked about on my california license app too, as well as DEA. DEA was particularly interested in drug related stuff. It was made quite clear that you had to report even if it was sealed/expunged. You may want to reconsider spending all that money especially on a caribbean school (already puts you at a disadvantage for a residency spot)

 

[mcindoe]

what I find more concerning than the 3 criminal charges is the way you recount it. At every turn of the story, there is an excuse and a failure to take responsibility for bad decisions. This extends not just to the criminal charges, but even to your account of your academic shortcomings. Taking all of that together, if I were on an admissions committee or a residency selection committee (and I am/have been on both...) I would seriously question your maturity and ability to handle the responsibilities of practicing medicine.

Totally agree w/ your observation. Ultimately, she won't be able to get her license based on what she's told us. The criminal charges themselves won't preclude her from getting a license, but her explanation statements will be the grounds for denying her application. If you fail to demonstrate evidence of rehabilitation (e.g. insight, responsibility, maturity, accountability), that will be way more important to the medical board in determining your eligibility for licensure. As I said in an earlier post, with these situations the board essentially gives you a rope with which you can hang yourself...as such, you must consult with a lawyer.

 

[Taurus]

Hence why most of us are advising her not to risk it.

To the OP, please come back in ~5 years and let us know how it works out.

 

[SevoInduction]

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