i shadowed a doc and he told me NOT to come back....=(

[swineflu]

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Okay I shadowed a gastroenterology specialist (internal medicine) yesterday. I spent about 6 hours with him. He let me see some procedures (endoscopy, colonoscopy, etc) and let me follow him when he was rounding and talking to patients. It was really interesting. He showed me come CT scans and explained patient conditions (endo results). I asked him some medical questions. We were definitely getting along. We talked about music, family, running, etc. It was not ackward at all.

And then towards the end of the day, I said that I really enjoyed shadowing him and asked him if i could come back. And he told me NO! he said that the main purpose of shadowing docs is to see various styles of practicing medicine and to expose yourself to diffrent fields. Well, i am wondering if this is a normal response and if I did anything wrong today? I hope i didn't annoy him much. did i blow it? lol

i don't know how to behave when i shadow docs anymore...

 

[Handy388]

did you talk to his patient at all or made any comment/question while he's with patients?

 

[swineflu]

i didn't.. was I supposed to? I thought I was kind of a tg-along and I didn't want to intrude on their conversation.

 

[swineflu]

*tagalong*

 

[DrYoda]

From your description it sounds like he did like you, but feels that it would be in your best interest to shadow a variety of physicians.

 

[swineflu]

hopefully that's true.

well but this is not a normal response, right? other docs let people shadow them for more than once... is it bad if I shadow docs for only 6 hours?

and also he recommended me to shadow another doctor in his field (GI). what does this mean?? i am so confused.

 

[DRJJ1]

Okay I shadowed a gastroenterology specialist (internal medicine) yesterday. I spent about 6 hours with him. He let me see some procedures (endoscopy, colonoscopy, etc) and let me follow him when he was rounding and talking to patients. It was really interesting. He showed me come CT scans and explained patient conditions (endo results). I asked him some medical questions. We were definitely getting along. We talked about music, family, running, etc. It was not ackward at all.

And then towards the end of the day, I said that I really enjoyed shadowing him and asked him if i could come back. And he told me NO! he said that the main purpose of shadowing docs is to see various styles of practicing medicine and to expose yourself to diffrent fields. Well, i am wondering if this is a normal response and if I did anything wrong today? I hope i didn't annoy him much. did i blow it? lol

i don't know how to behave when i shadow docs anymore...

MAYBE YOUR ZIPPER WAS OPEN AND HANDS IN POCKETS TOO MUCH?

 

[Catholic Guilt]

He probably liked you but does not see the point in having you come in again. From his perspective, you may have already seen everything that someone without a medical education can understand.

If you haven't already, send him a thank you card and be sincere. You seem like a thoughtful person. Don't beat yourself up about this.

 

[Handy388]

i didn't.. was I supposed to? I thought I was kind of a tg-along and I didn't want to intrude on their conversation.

that's the correct behavior.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Moving out of "What are my Chances" and into the main Pre-Allopathic forum.

 

[bkz]

It doesn't necessarily follow that this means you made a bad impression; doctors are extremely busy and having a premed shadowing is a burden. Perhaps he would like you to come back but his schedule cannot accommodate it.

I asked him some medical questions..

Another thought that may be completely off-base is that if you are the kind of person who is always asking Whyyyyyyyy (when maybe you should ask 'why?' in a more roundabout way), certain people occasionally perceive this as challenging their judgment. Again this could be completely incorrect and only speaking from personal experience 😉

 

[MossPoh]

It is a combination of things. I think the doc really didn't mind having you tag along, but every second you are there is still some lost productivity. It sounds like you got a pretty good summary of what he does during the day. The best way to get other shadowing opportunities is to say something like, "Thank you for the opportunity. Do you have any colleagues that you would recommend?". The vast majority of my shadowing happened between doctors who interacted with each other on a regular basis. (I also knew them before hand but that is another story). It worked out well by the end because I'd be in the ER and a woman with Crohn's would come in and I'd get to see the workup done, the history and all that stuff. Then the GI guy I shadowed a day before would come in and invite me up to show other aspects of the patient's treatment. It gave me a nice view of the care. A woman came into the ER with a broken arm. I got to reduce the fracture but the orthopedic surgeon I shadowed before came in and I was able to go into the OR the next day and follow what she did with that arm. A bunch of crap like that.

 

[swineflu]

He probably liked you but does not see the point in having you come in again. From his perspective, you may have already seen everything that someone without a medical education can understand.

If you haven't already, send him a thank you card and be sincere. You seem like a thoughtful person. Don't beat yourself up about this.

thanks! yeah i will make sure to send him a thank u card

 

[UVAbme2009]

You should get a LOR from him.



I don't think it's the worst thing ever. But if you really enjoyed it, maybe you could have told him. I shadowed a nice variety of physicians, but I really enjoyed the pediatric cardiology clinic here, so I did it as often as I could this year. For me, shadowing wasn't about trying to learn as much as I can about different specialties. It was more about trying to see great physicians work, and how I can learn from what they do.

 

[swineflu]

It doesn't necessarily follow that this means you made a bad impression; doctors are extremely busy and having a premed shadowing is a burden. Perhaps he would like you to come back but his schedule cannot accommodate it.

Another thought that may be completely off-base is that if you are the kind of person who is always asking Whyyyyyyyy (when maybe you should ask 'why?' in a more roundabout way), certain people occasionally perceive this as challenging their judgment. Again this could be completely incorrect and only speaking from personal experience 😉

yup i am pretty sure doctors lose productivity when premeds are following them everywhere.

but no.. i don't think i said anything that could be interpreted as if I was challenging his judgment. lol i asked him really general questions...like what would do with polyps if you found them during endoscopy? or what are those white spots on the CT scan?

 

[TexasPhysician]

yup i am pretty sure doctors lose productivity when premeds are following them everywhere.

but no.. i don't think i said anything that could be interpreted as if I was challenging his judgment. lol i asked him really general questions...like what would do with polyps if you found them during endoscopy? or what are those white spots on the CT scan?

haha No "pretty sure" about it. Even medical students will cause doctors to lose productivity. As doctors often say about med students on-call: "All we need is another person in the hospital who can't write orders." (sarcasm - for those that missed it)

 

[werd]

i would take what he said at face value. if you're gonna spend another day shadowing why not do a different specialty?

 

[Ann Chovie]

OP, it sounds to me as though, in his opinion anyway, you saw it "All" as a "Layperson" and he felt that it would be more productive for you to grow through gaining a more diversified experience with other docs... Or, maybe he was just trying to find out who you post as on SDN? LOL

 

[biteMeAdCom]

You saw quite a lot in 6hrs of shadowing. Count yourself lucky that this person let you tag along and draw his attention when he/she had absolutely no obligation to. He was being generous. You are puzzled why he isn't giving you more.

I agree with the previous posters who said that once you see the routine, there no point in doing it again. To do so turns you into a burden. Put yourself in his shoes. You gotta understand this and appreciate other people's priorities and motivations.

He is also thinking about your best interest, too. He's probably thinking you'd be wasting your time to see his same routines, or at least, there would be diminishing returns on the new things that you'd experience. That's why he suggested to shadow another doctor - even someone in the exact same field could bring a different approach to patients and his/her work, and it is good to see different physicians' styles.

and the guy who posted that you should get a LOR from him, after only six hours of minimal contact? That's gotta be a joke.

 

[Dannyw]

The same thing happened to me about a week ago. I shadowed a pediatrician and at end of the day he said something like "I think you get a good idea of what I do". I asked him if I could shadow some more and he seemed reluctant but said I could do another day or two. I doubt I will contact him again but I will be sending a letter to thank him.

 

[swineflu]

thanks, everyone.

yeah i am not asking for a LOR from him. yup it was generous of him to let him follow him around. i am thankful =)

 

[pietachok]

I can't even imagine how nuts it drives most of the doc's i work for to have a pre-med following them...or sometimes even a med student. They just don't like having a tagalong at all, and you probably shouldn't take it personally. It is a risk to patient comfort and can slow down the day...it's just not great for a practice.

 

[locus000]

Shadowing a doctor does slow them down because they have to stop and explain stuff you and spent time answering your question. And in private practice Time = money

OP: I talked to an medschool admin and she told me that they care more about how many doctors you shadow more then how long you shadow one doctor. It many be just for this school and other school will look at differently. Just add this doctor to your list and move on the next one, unless you were looking for a LOR

 

[MossPoh]

Shadowing a doctor does slow them down because they have to stop and explain stuff you and spent time answering your question. And in private practice Time = money

OP: I talked to an medschool admin and she told me that they care more about how many doctors you shadow more then how long you shadow one doctor. It many be just for this school and other school will look at differently. Just add this doctor to your list and move on the next one, unless you were looking for a LOR

Maybe that is why FSU liked me. I shadowed like 9 or 10 specialities. 😛

 

[TMP-SMX]

Shadowing is pretty useless for medical school applications. Clinical volunteering is much more important as you actually do something and show you are interested beyond standing there and watching.

What shadowing is good for is to have some background and things to say for interviews and other things.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Physicians are very busy and the truth is that it's an inconvenience to have a student shadowing you. However, there are many physicians who are eager to have students shadow them, so you need to find someone who has that perspective. I think this physician wanted to extend a favor and allow you to shadow for one day, but this person isn't unable to extend that favor continuously - especially since it takes a toll on his productivity.

 

[life is good]

I shadowed a variety of physicians, and 4/5 of them I only shadowed one day. I got along perfectly fine with all of them. We talked about medicine, my interests, hobbies, their experiences in medical school, why they chose to be docs, tips on applying... In other words, we got along great. At the end of they day, the docs all pretty much did the same thing - they wrapped things up with me like it was implied that I was only doing this for one day. I thanked each one of them sincerely, and had no problem getting letters of recommendations from 3 of them. One thing I did notice however, was that docs are really busy. So even though they may have enjoyed your company, they really just have a lot on their plates. They will take out the time to "show you the ropes," but I think a lot of docs expect just that. Not a full time shadow. Hope I helped

 

[swineflu]

Haha hilarious. Most true!!

I agree this guy let you see a lot of his procedures for just 1 day. Endoscopies AND colonoscopies??!!! Nice chap. It probably would have been nice if he had let you shadow him another day, but you would never understand the things he does with your current level of knowledge (can you differenciate between an adematous and a villous polyp??). I agree that because you can't take blood samples and fill lab forms, you can't really help him speed up his work and on the long run he loses working time explaining things to you. Many patients can feel uncomfortable havinbg some kid watching them and they can legally tell the doctor to kick you out with no question.

If you're really going for this career, you have to learn to stand your ground on the food chain pyramid. I think personality wise he probably didn't dislike you at all. From the way you typed your experience, you seemed interested but at the same time not bossy and annoying. Doctors hate having laymen think they know medicine than they do just because they watched a few episodes of House (which isn't really realistic to begin with.. House thinks everyone has Lupus).

Get out of your head the idea that in the ER they have a code red popping up every 5 seconds like in that crappy ER tv show because it isn't like that. Hospital working environment to me seems more like Scrubs (without all of the dumb and childish pranks JD does all day), more laidback and more filled with paperwork and studying tedious books in the lounge during the more relaxed hours. Usually a GI will only do either endoscopies or colonoscopies all day, so I find it surprising you shadowed someone that does both procedures.


Be sure to thank him for his time and if you're lucky, ask him if he can reccomend someone else that wouldn't mind to have you shadow for a day, either from his own specialty to see someone else's style of doing the same procedures or someone from a different specialty like an Anesthesiologist.

Shadowing is more about giving you a picture of the real job as a quiet observer to give you an idea which specialties you'd enjoy best when you get there and if medicine is the career for you. However, shadowing isn't the norm in Mexico. I never shadowed. My equivalent of shadowing came when I used to be a med student and even then I was still able to fill lab forms and other paperwork.

hey thanks for your post.

yeah this doctor did two procedures that day. The first one was endoscopy for sure. but the second one?? hmmm lets say he put a tube through the patient's rectum....and examined it. i thought that was colonoscopy. correct me if I am wrong.

i love House, though. ahhh can't wait for the next season. I love Scrubs too. so said it's over. lol

i hate being at the bottom of the food chain pyramid............

 

[swineflu]

I shadowed a variety of physicians, and 4/5 of them I only shadowed one day. I got along perfectly fine with all of them. We talked about medicine, my interests, hobbies, their experiences in medical school, why they chose to be docs, tips on applying... In other words, we got along great. At the end of they day, the docs all pretty much did the same thing - they wrapped things up with me like it was implied that I was only doing this for one day. I thanked each one of them sincerely, and had no problem getting letters of recommendations from 3 of them. One thing I did notice however, was that docs are really busy. So even though they may have enjoyed your company, they really just have a lot on their plates. They will take out the time to "show you the ropes," but I think a lot of docs expect just that. Not a full time shadow. Hope I helped

Are LORs from doctors important? I thought you just needed about 5 from your professors and PI.

 

[pianola]

Are LORs from doctors important? I thought you just needed about 5 from your professors and PI.

I never got a LOR from a doctor. I think you'll get mixed results as to whether or not a doctor-LOR is useful/important, but the bottom line is that "people who know you well" are a higher priority than MD or no MD.

 

[locus000]

AGREED!!! LizzyM once made a good point that doctor shadowing letters are not really all that great cuz you are not actually doing something tangible but just standing there in the way watching the doctor. you are not showing skill and hard work or something that is worth putting down. Therefore, a job supervisor even at a regular non medical job would carry more weight.

LOR from a doctor is useless unless its DO then it matter. The doctor i got a LOR from used the same letter for me that he did for my friend, he just changed my name (he told me). Another doctor wanted me to write my own and give to them to sign.
I'm sure others on here have done this.

@MossPoh: Go FSU!!!! 😀

 

[LizzyM]

The doctor i got a LOR from used the same letter for me that he did for my friend, he just changed my name (he told me). 😀

You are lucky he changed the name. I've seen some letters where the writer hasn't even bothered to do that... or they change the name but not the gender (Sue is everthing one could hope for in a medical student and he will be a wonderful addition to the class.) 😳

 

[tiedyeddog]

You are lucky he changed the name. I've seen some letters where the writer hasn't even bothered to do that... or they change the name but not the gender (Sue is everthing one could hope for in a medical student and he will be a wonderful addition to the class.) 😳

That sucks! 😱

 

[pianola]

Sue is everthing one could hope for in a medical student and he will be a wonderful addition to the class.

Nice.