I start Argosy DC in one week

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Also, certain board specialties require APA-accredited internships. Many positions, especially in Neuropsychology, require you to be board-certified, or board eligible for employment these days. In some states, like Minnesota, you can't bill for many Npsych services unless you are board certified.
 
Wow, while I was gone, this thread exploded. Guys I think you are getting trolled on this one. :troll:
 
The funny thing is that everyone wants these supremely objective measures of clinical skill, yet it does not really matter. There is a bias against FSPS by internship and job search committees. Why make your life harder than it has to be? Sure, you may be able to get licensed in a state without an APA internship, but do you want to compete for a job against a person with an APA internship? As an early career person job hunting, the big difference between me and my colleagues without APA internships and from FSPS is that I have had options to be hired in the area of the field I want in a position I want. Those colleagues are stuck working in areas they want with poor pay or doing something they never intended to do. Getting licensed is only the first step. This is true for MDs as well. Just because you are eligible to get a job does not mean you will get the ones you are after.
 
No argument here (it's none of my business where anyone goes to school 🙂 ) but just wondering: where are you getting your facts? Considering this is a psychology board, you should probably be backing your facts up with empirical data. As it reads here, looks like you threw in your opinions, which are hardly facts no matter how strongly you believe them to be. For example, I could say this to legitimately support your argument: I read a few studies (which I'm not interested in looking up now, but you could) showing that paraprofessionals (i.e counselors with no formal degrees) get similar client outcomes as professionals (MA's and up) in the therapy room as long as they have decent training and stick to what they know (which ALL should do 🙂 ). Thus, one doesn't need a specific PhD program to be successful with clients. This would have been an argument strengthener as opposed to guesses and such. Also, you could look up what Agrosy alumnus's are doing in careers and point out their successes, perhaps.

For my opinion (not fact 🙂 ), I think the best thing one gets from a PhD school (or even an APA Accred PsyD program) is the ability to read, understand and apply empirical data into their practices. It's one thing to use CBT, for example, another to understand why it works so you can be creative in applying it to fit the individual client's needs. Also, I too am willing to shell out bucks for a quality PsyD program - but I am only applying to APA accred programs because I don't know what state I'll be moving to later in life, and most states won't license you without APA.

All this being said, I wish you luck in your program! You know what's best for you, and thus this fact-v-fiction post is really unnecessary. Who cares what a bunch of strangers in an online chatroom have to say about your life decisions? Go be successful, and then come back and post: Fact- I went to Agrosy and I did great! 🙂

If the OP does. Which we hope he does.
 
Heh.

Those who choose to not use reason cannot be swayed by it.

:troll:

Yikes, I was on the fence before but now I've made up my mind not to look into FP PsyD programs. Sometimes unreason can sway people after all.
 
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Considering this is a psychology board, you should probably be backing your facts up with empirical data 🙂

Holy freakin s**t Can we stop this? Please. This is A MESSAGE BOARD. My CV doesnt get bigger from SDN posts, so if we have citations handy in my brain, I will let you know A'ight?!

Lots of this stuff is opinion and hypothesis thats built on emprical data. That how science works. We dont need a citation for every hyothsized link between Left-Handed Underwater Basketweaver's Disease corresponds to the increased incidence of Cheese Doodle consumption. ." etc.
 
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We dont need a citation fot every hyothsized link between cthe rise in Left-Handed Underwater Basketweaver's Disease corresponds to the increased incidence of Cheese Doodle consumption. ." etc.

I'd appreciate it if you took my dissertation topic more seriously for the growing pandemic that it is.
 
Perhaps some confirmation bias. This industry is full of bloated egos. I wish the infighting among APA accredited programs would stop. The real enemy are the unaccredited programs and of course the MSWs 🙂

We need to take down MSW programs LOL.....
 
I'd appreciate it if you took my dissertation topic more seriously for the growing pandemic that it is.

Hell yea I want some cheesy poofs...
 
I believe the OP wants everyone on SDN to change his/her opinion on Argosy and is on some one-person mission...just as I do with my psychodynamic missions. Well, OP, it ain't gonna happen so we must then agree to disagree...so everyone can return to their respective corners of the ring. There is only one who can [come in and] "float like a butterfly, and sting like a bee" (Muhammad Ali, 1964, public communication), and don't see anyone changing their opinions on Argosy anytime soon (just as an online degree in clinical psychology makes no practical sense).
 
I believe the OP wants everyone on SDN to change his/her opinion on Argosy and is on some one-person mission...just as I do with my psychodynamic missions. Well, OP, it ain't gonna happen so we must then agree to disagree...so everyone can return to their respective corners of the ring. There is only one who can [come in and] "float like a butterfly, and sting like a bee" (Muhammad Ali, 1964, public communication), and don't see anyone changing their opinions on Argosy anytime soon (just as an online degree in clinical psychology makes no practical sense).


Need another member for your psychodynamic mission? LOL
 
I doubt that the OP is a student. I feel like every six months someone from Argosy/Alliant posts this crap and gets everyone annoyed. I've stated this before = but the internship at my AMC tosses these internship apps immediately because of the poor quality of training (lack of good practicum experiences, zero publications). We do not have any issues with PsyD programs - university based programs produce top quality interns/clinicians - the issue is with those particular programs. I can also say with confidence that the other local APA accredited internship programs do not look favorably on Argosy/Alliant.

I do feel bad for the public who may encounter these "clinicians." The OP has made this about him/herself- but I'll throw in that it should also be about the patients. You are taking on significant responsibility when caring for others - getting the best possible training, from accredited programs and internships - will help you to do that.

I think these programs will eventually implode if the APA stands its ground on accredited internships for licensure.
 
I think these programs will eventually implode if the APA stands its ground on accredited internships for licensure.
I have no faith in the APA to do so. The APA is just a poorly run business these days, and with Argosy being one of it's big money sponsors, the APA doesn't have the balls to regulate it.
 
I have no faith in the APA to do so. The APA is just a poorly run business these days, and with Argosy being one of it's big money sponsors, the APA doesn't have the balls to regulate it.
This, unfortunately.🙁
 
Then at least you will say the for profit model is beating nonprofit university based psyd programs. Shouldnt your disdain be directed at Psyd in general. Instead of just trageting fsps

Many PsyD programs EPPP pass rates are in the 70's and above... but there are some that are TERRIBLE! (BOTH Carlos Albizu campuses in the 30's?!?! Argosy-Dallas at 0?!?!) In my opinion these programs should be closed.
 
Many PsyD programs EPPP pass rates are in the 70's and above... but there are some that are TERRIBLE! (BOTH Carlos Albizu campuses in the 30's?!?! Argosy-Dallas at 0?!?!) In my opinion these programs should be closed.

Indeed. I think it should be a viable degree, just stricter standards should be in place.
 
This might be a silly question, but what is a good EPPP pass rate?
 
This might be a silly question, but what is a good EPPP pass rate?
I would say a very high rate - like 80s/90s, which we consider important for APA internship rates. You are always going to have a handful of students who struggle with the exam, but it should not be the norm - that reflects a systemic problem.
 
Thanks for the responses! So it's like the match rate it seems.
 
The APA needs to crack down on what they accrediting. This will help put an end to the issue that this thread is about. I'm not saying that Argosy is or isn't a worthwhile school. But if people on this forum deal with internship applications are saying that they toss applications just for saying "Argosy" than there is a reason for this. If the APA would look at all doctoral programs under the microscope when they are accrediting programs and find out which schools are producing competent psychologists than we could end this debate. Again, I have no idea if Argosy is a good program, but I know that graduate students and psychology faculty at my university look down on ALL PsyD programs and a huge reason for this is because of the reputation of for profit schools. If the APA would up the standards than this could be avoided.
 
They need to, but they won't. They get too much money from accrediting these programs.
 
Again, I have no idea if Argosy is a good program, but I know that graduate students and psychology faculty at my university look down on ALL PsyD programs and a huge reason for this is because of the reputation of for profit schools.

That is very "black and white" of your program and I would advise against inheriting that particular mindset from your university. There are some excellent clinicians, researchers, professors, and Internship Directors who are PsyDs. For-profit PsyD institutions are one thing, but you cannot lump all PsyD programs in one category - just as you shouldn't do the same for all PhDs.
 
That is very "black and white" of your program and I would advise against inheriting that particular mindset from your university. There are some excellent clinicians, researchers, professors, and Internship Directors who are PsyDs.


I know! And that's what I'm talking about! The reputation of for-profit schools casts a shadow over the good programs. That's why I was saying that if the APA would crack down and up the requirements than there would be no debate whether or not a program is producing incompetent psychologists. Trust me, I hate the way PsyD programs are viewed, I hope to attend a psyD program after I graduate so I have done my fair share of research and know that there are so really great ones out there.
 
That is very "black and white" of your program and I would advise against inheriting that particular mindset from your university. There are some excellent clinicians, researchers, professors, and Internship Directors who are PsyDs. For-profit PsyD institutions are one thing, but you cannot lump all PsyD programs in one category - just as you shouldn't do the same for all PhDs.
It's not just the Argosy/Alliant that makes people think that way. Many in the field feel that you need a solid research background to properly do clinical work. So, someone can be from a respected Psy.D, but if they have little to no research and their dissertation was a glorified lit review, I'm not interested in them as my student. I hold PhD's to the same standard though.
 
To be fair, APA accreditation was initially intended to be a minimum bar rather than a gold standard, although it may now be failing even at that.

I've been saying this for years, but at some point in the past 10-12 years there has been a shift in how the accreditation is viewed; it has been a very purposeful push by some in the field. I put most of the blame on the APA for allowing their acred. status to shield sub-standard programs from more scrutiny. Allowing programs to have a <70% EPPP pass rate, <50% APA-acred site match rate, and similar metrics makes "APA-acred" status next to worthless in regard to actually representing the minimum bar for training. Online training programs and programs lacking APA-acred. status are both red herrings, as they make up such a small % of actual students each year.

I also have a lot of ire towards the California Psych Assoc. for actually supporting an "alternative path" to licensure by allowing CAPIC to grow. The internship imbalance is a symptom of a larger problem in the field….the SUPPLY far outstrips the DEMAND for clinicians.
 
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Tbh, having been here for years, I think people who go to FSPS without a healthy sense of trepediation are impossible to talk realism into until the consequences of going to an FSPS (debt, internship match) hit them directly. Until then, cognitive dissonance rules. I have known a select few people who choose FSPS knowing the pitfalls of that choice but had very, very specific reasons for choosing that route (usually, really wanting to work with a specific faculty member). Those people, however, in the minority of FSPS students, IME.

I agree with this completely. But I also think the OP sounds like a paid stooge.
 
I've been saying this for years, but at some point in the past 10-12 years there has been a shift in how the accreditation is viewed; it has been a very purposeful push by some in the field. I put most of the blame on the APA for allowing their acred. status to shield sub-standard programs from more scrutiny. Allowing programs to have a <70% EPPP pass rate, <50% APA-acred site match rate, and similar metrics makes "APA-acred" status next to worthless in regard to actually representing the minimum bar for training. Online training programs and programs lacking APA-acred. status are both red herrings, as they make up such a small % of actual students each year.

I also have a lot of ire towards the California Psych Assoc. for actually supporting an "alternative path" to licensure by allowing CAPIC to grow. The internship imbalance is a symptom of a larger problem in the field….the SUPPLY far outstrips the DEMAND for clinicians.


I agree with this in a general sense. However, one issue I have to point to is the larger trend in the dumbing down of healthcare. PsyDs are not the only clinical degrees...there are also PharmD, DPT, etc and in places where they could not expand the 'doctor' label masters level practitioners have gained more privileges (NP). Education in general is changing.

I don't believe supply completely outstrips demand. Rather, certain areas of supply are greatly outstripping demand and in some specialty areas demand outweighs supply. However, clinicians are not trained to work in those settings and meet that need.
 
Successful troll is successful.
 
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