I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

[Not A Troll]

Hi All,

So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both attend" along with some other stuff about how were going together and this school was our first choice.

Long story short, he exchanged a few emails with the dean, and today I was accepted!

Only problem is that we were both accepted to another school within that time frame, and would rather go there than the place that just accepted me.

So my question is, how bad would it be to attend the other school? Would the admissions staff be significantly upset? Could it affect chances of potentially getting a residency at that school/hospital system in the future?

Thanks in advance!

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[LizzyM]

Exhibit #1 as to why Letters of Intent are not taken seriously by Adcoms and Deans of Admission.

 

[justadream]

No, it's not a problem at all. You are allowed to change your mind.

Just send a generic "I appreciate the acceptance but I've decided to withdraw my acceptance" email to the first school and then go attend the second school.

 

[HybridEarth]

Congratulations/yikes. Honestly curious as to what happens in these situations though, is OP in any sort "danger"?

 

[JustAPhD]

There's plenty of others to take your and your SO's seats.
You did this by accident. . .many applicants do this kind of thing on purpose (send a love letter to school A knowing if you get in school B you'll just decline school A anyways).

Congratulations/yikes. Honestly curious as to what happens in these situations though, is OP in any sort "danger"?

A LOI is non-binding and OP is in no danger, hence LizzyM's post about the weight, or the lack thereof, of LOIs.

 

[ChrisMack390]

You'll never be accepted to that particular school again. Assuming you don't care about that, no consequences.

It is a little frustrating that people send these bull**** letters of intent out though (as someone who is trying to swing applying to med school while my girlfriend applies to residency).

 

[Nietzschelover]

Exhibit #1 as to why Letters of Intent are not taken seriously by Adcoms and Deans of Admission.

Makes sense that they don't take them very seriously. Different question. Given the apparent frequency of these letters/declaration, do Adcoms/Deans also ignore when applicants DON'T send in these kinds of letters? In other words, while not taking the letters seriously, do they ever interpret an applicant not sending one as an indication of lack of interest? And especially for schools that advertise that they accept/want LOIs, should applicants send one to cover their bases (and especially in instances where the school is indeed a top choice)?

 

[Nietzschelover]

Hi All,

So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both attend" along with some other stuff about how were going together and this school was our first choice.

Long story short, he exchanged a few emails with the dean, and today I was accepted!

Only problem is that we were both accepted to another school within that time frame, and would rather go there than the place that just accepted me.

So my question is, how bad would it be to attend the other school? Would the admissions staff be significantly upset? Could it affect chances of potentially getting a residency at that school/hospital system in the future?

Thanks in advance!

When all of this frantic negotiating was going on, didn't you and your boyfriend know that you both could get in a preferred school? And how was this school that initially waitlisted you "my undoubted first choice" but now you would rather go to a different place? Doesn't really follow.

 

[Not A Troll]

You'll never be accepted to that particular school again. Assuming you don't care about that, no consequences.

It is a little frustrating that people send these bull**** letters of intent out though (as someone who is trying to swing applying to med school while my girlfriend applies to residency).

Well thats kind of my worry. This schools is amazing (close to family, excellent residencies, etc) and I'd love to spend residency there. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot down the line. Also, I get your frustration but it really wasnt a BS letter. It was completely honest at the time I sent it.

When all of this frantic negotiating was going on, didn't you and your boyfriend know that you both could get in a preferred school? And how was this school that initially waitlisted you "my undoubted first choice" but now you would rather go to a different place? Doesn't really follow.

It was really an effect of the interview day and seeing some intangibles of the second school I had never really considered. Things like having extremely friendly faculty and students, great curriculum (Pass/Fail and unranked preclinical years), and brand new facilities. Basically I realized that theres more to a school then just a famous name and a good location.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I doubt the residency program will have your name written down 4 years later.

 

[JustAPhD]

It was really an effect of the interview day and seeing some intangibles of the second school I had never really considered. Things like having extremely friendly faculty and students, great curriculum (Pass/Fail and unranked preclinical years), and brand new facilities. Basically I realized that theres more to a school then just a famous name and a good location.

Need to save this post for those "should I go to interview at X?" threads!

 

[DokterMom]

Would financial aid change your mind?

If not, then spend a little more time on your "No Thanks" email and have your BF do the same. Indicate that the school you're choosing was an option you didn't expect you'd have that proved to be a better fit for an unexpected reason. Express gratitude that they accepted you and say that you still love their program and hope to go there for residency.

It will probably make no difference at all -- but it might, and it's really all you can do anyway.

And congratulations on getting into the same school! Very few couples can say that --

 

[NYCpremed212]

gotiating was going on, didn't you and your boyfriend know that you both could get in a

I doubt the residency program will have your name written down 4 years later.

maybe they will remember, maybe they won't. I personally wouldn't take that risk.

 

[edgerock24]

Exhibit #1 as to why Letters of Intent are not taken seriously by Adcoms and Deans of Admission.

If letters of intent aren't taken seriously, then how did the OP suddenly get an acceptance after her boyfriend sent a few emails out?

Having a boyfriend send a couple messages and then getting accepted immediately afterwards is very troubling. It's not like they're married. Pretty lame way to get into med school as well.

 

[LizzyM]

If letters of intent aren't taken seriously, then how did the OP suddenly get an acceptance after her boyfriend sent a few emails out?

Having a boyfriend send a couple messages and then getting accepted immediately afterwards is very troubling. It's not like they're married. Pretty lame way to get into med school as well.

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Im76at711]

If letters of intent aren't taken seriously, then how did the OP suddenly get an acceptance after her boyfriend sent a few emails out?

Having a boyfriend send a couple messages and then getting accepted immediately afterwards is very troubling. It's not like they're married. Pretty lame way to get into med school as well.

pretty sure there were a ton of other reasons that she got into that school excluding her BF's email exchange! But i do agree that it is weird that the dean even bothered to email back. he/she must be a chill person.

 

[Im76at711]

Correlation does not equal causation.

are you saying it is a magical coincidence? I doubt that... very highly.

 

[Not A Troll]

If letters of intent aren't taken seriously, then how did the OP suddenly get an acceptance after her boyfriend sent a few emails out?

Having a boyfriend send a couple messages and then getting accepted immediately afterwards is very troubling. It's not like they're married. Pretty lame way to get into med school as well.

I'm curious how it's troubling? Were both adequately qualified. And we've been together 6 years (non-trad) so its not like some random college couple.

 

[LizzyM]

are you saying it is a magical coincidence? I doubt that... very highly.

She well could have been the next one on the list and going to get in whether or not anyone groveled on her behalf.

 

[redferrari]

It might hurt you when applying for residency, emphasis on the might. Chances are you're thinking way too much about it. They might call you a meanie (among more vulgar terms), but that's it.

You've definitely left your fingerprints at the scene, but you have not committed a crime.

 

[gyngyn]

If letters of intent aren't taken seriously, then how did the OP suddenly get an acceptance after her boyfriend sent a few emails out?

Having a boyfriend send a couple messages and then getting accepted immediately afterwards is very troubling. It's not like they're married. Pretty lame way to get into med school as well.

She could have been accepted in spite of the emails.

 

[Nietzschelover]

I'm curious how it's troubling? Were both adequately qualified. And we've been together 6 years (non-trad) so its not like some random college couple.

It's troubling in the same way that is happening with some of these Jefferson posters. Calling/emailing and then getting a II that day or the next (or within minutes). Creates the perception that you can go outside the lines a little bit to help manufacture a desired result. Now everyone seems to be emailing Jefferson to see if they can trigger a II by this method (and who wouldn't if they saw this working for others?). It's like hearing that you can't influence decisions with extra calls, letters, and such, but then seeing others make it work. Same thing with the "in the area" inquiries. How is it fair for someone to get a II because they inquired about being in the area when everyone else is waiting for a II? The aura of desperation with the whole process of course is going to lead to folks exploring every angle or maneuver they can to score an acceptance, and seeing that succeed even occasionally creates a feeding frenzy. I think most just want the process to be "fair" and reflect integrity in how awarding of IIs and acceptances occur.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Pass fail unranked?! Isn't there only a few schools in the country that do that (Yale, pen, who else?). Screw the old school who cares if you burn bridges. Go to the second school and don't look back!

 

[edgerock24]

I'm curious how it's troubling? Were both adequately qualified. And we've been together 6 years (non-trad) so its not like some random college couple.

While I believe that you are a qualified candidate, it is troubling that someone else (not even YOU) can simply write a few emails and, ...ta-da! An acceptance the next day.

Correlation does not equal causation.

She could have been accepted in spite of the emails.

Yeah. However, the boyfriend sent multiple emails to the admissions staff. They didn't just "blow him off." There was a clear conversation, perhaps of substance. It's hard to think that her acceptance was a coincidence, and/or her boyfriend's conversation with the Dean had zero impact on her gaining an acceptance. It just sucks for the other applicants who are just as qualified, but not in a position to do this.

 

[gyngyn]

Yeah. However, the boyfriend sent multiple emails to the admissions staff. They didn't just "blow him off." There was a clear conversation, perhaps of substance. It's hard to think that her acceptance was a coincidence, and/or her boyfriend's conversation with the Dean had zero impact on her gaining an acceptance. It just sucks for the other applicants who are just as qualified, but not in a position to do this.

I can assure you that for every time this appears to help a candidate there are many more where it actually hurts.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Guys. Let's think about this a bit more clearly. It's not as if OP (or anyone else who sends an ITA email / LOI / update whatever) was accepted *just because* they made contact with the school. I guarantee you that med schools aren't pulling applications out of the reject bin because an applicant's significant other got accepted or because they sent the school a love letter. (I can't imagine anything other than a 6 or 7-figure check achieving that result.)

Yes, an update of some sort might expedite an acceptance for someone who is already on track to get one. Or it may encourage the school to take a second look at an application they've been holding onto for a while. But it's not as if unqualified applicants are somehow gaming the system here. It seems silly to say it's unfair.

 

[justadream]

You'll never be accepted to that particular school again. Assuming you don't care about that, no consequences.

It is a little frustrating that people send these bull**** letters of intent out though (as someone who is trying to swing applying to med school while my girlfriend applies to residency).

I highly doubt that is the case.

So you think the school creates a central "blacklist" and then every admissions committee within that school (e.g., Law school, Business school, Grad school, residency program directors, etc.) all check your name against this blacklist...

But even supposing such a blacklist existed and was used, OP is still fine with ditching his original school. After all, there are tons of residency programs for any given specialty. Not being able to go to one school is negligible in the overall picture.

I think every reasonable person gets that people change their minds (and circumstances change). Maybe school X was your top choice but then just before the deadline your spouse suddenly gets a job that is much closer to school Y. In that case, yeah it's reasonable to change to school Y. Or maybe suddenly school Y offered you a full-ride scholarship.

Yeah, you could probably say it is "unethical" to write a LOI unless you are absolutely 100% sure you would go to no matter what. But it's part of the game. Let's say you have 0 acceptances and 10 WLs. The best option (if you want to get in somewhere) is to tell all 10 schools that they are your #1 choice.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I highly doubt that is the case.

So you think the school creates a central "blacklist" and then every admissions committee within that school (e.g., Law school, Business school, Grad school, residency program directors, etc.) all check your name against this blacklist...

But even supposing such a blacklist existed and was used, OP is still fine with ditching his original school. After all, there are tons of residency programs for any given specialty. Not being able to go to one school is negligible in the overall picture.

I think every reasonable person gets that people change their minds (and circumstances change). Maybe school X was your top choice but then just before the deadline your spouse suddenly gets a job that is much closer to school Y. In that case, yeah it's reasonable to change to school Y. Or maybe suddenly school Y offered you a full-ride scholarship.

Yeah, you could probably say it is "unethical" to write a LOI unless you are absolutely 100% sure you would go to no matter what. But it's part of the game. Let's say you have 0 acceptances and 10 WLs. The best option (if you want to get in somewhere) is to tell all 10 schools that they are your #1 choice.

Well you are wrong, seeing as how schools inquire about re-applications and each person gets 1 AMCAS ID that they re-use if they reapply. Note how I said school not residency program and a few posts down said I would guess he would be fine to apply to the residency.

 

[mcloaf]

Pretty much zero chance anyone involved with residency programs will have any idea who you are unless you turn down the acceptance by showing up in person and punching the dean.

 

[justadream]

Well you are wrong, seeing as how schools inquire about re-applications and each person gets 1 AMCAS ID that they re-use if they reapply. Note how I said school not residency program and a few posts down said I would guess he would be fine to apply to the residency.

I see. My apologies for not seeing it!

If you are talking about the medical school, then yes the applicant has no chance at that school again. I just didn't think you would be referring to medical schools since the OP would simply go to the second school (and not reapply to the first school again).

 

[ChrisMack390]

I see. My apologies for not seeing it!

If you are talking about the medical school, then yes the applicant has no chance at that school again. I just didn't think you would be referring to medical schools since the OP would simply go to the second school (and not reapply to the first school again).

Hence why he won't care or have any consequences.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Guys. Let's think about this a bit more clearly. It's not as if OP (or anyone else who sends an ITA email / LOI / update whatever) was accepted *just because* they made contact with the school. I guarantee you that med schools aren't pulling applications out of the reject bin because an applicant's significant other got accepted or because they sent the school a love letter. (I can't imagine anything other than a 6 or 7-figure check achieving that result.)

Yes, an update of some sort might expedite an acceptance for someone who is already on track to get one. Or it may encourage the school to take a second look at an application they've been holding onto for a while. But it's not as if unqualified applicants are somehow gaming the system here. It seems silly to say it's unfair.

I would agree in the extremes, like cases that are already in the reject bin, but that doesn't mean a nudge here or there doesn't make a difference in large stacks of apps under consideration where the differences among apps are razor-thin. When applicants have been waiting and/or on hold for 6-7 mos with no word and then an email prompts issuance of an II, and you see that with enough frequency that a pattern is cited encouraging you to do the same, then I think there are conclusions to be drawn. I would also suggest that anything that gets an app "expedited" and/or a "second look" among a sea of apps with razor-thin differences is an advantage that those still stressing for any acceptance or an acceptance at a top choice would love to enjoy. As gyngyn notes the strategy can be risky, but that is why we see so many feel out the situation before acting and then pouncing when they come across adcoms who are known to be friendly to inquiries/nudges.

 

[NorthOfBroad]

I would agree in the extremes, like cases that are already in the reject bin, but that doesn't mean a nudge here or there doesn't make a difference in large stacks of apps under consideration where the differences among apps are razor-thin. When applicants have been waiting and/or on hold for 6-7 mos with no word and then an email prompts issuance of an II, and you see that with enough frequency that a pattern is cited encouraging you to do the same, then I think there are conclusions to be drawn. I would also suggest that anything that gets an app "expedited" and/or a "second look" among a sea of apps with razor-thin differences is an advantage that those still stressing for any acceptance or an acceptance at a top choice would love to enjoy. As gyngyn notes the strategy can be risky, but that is why we see so many feel out the situation before acting and then pouncing when they come across adcoms who are known to be friendly to inquiries/nudges.

Jefferson is weird, and I would not look too much into their admissions process. When I interviewed there, I got they impression the dean and the director of admissions are very involved in each interview decision and that's why they move glacially slow in terms of II (despite having 10K applicants). I can only assume when a candidate contacts the dean or director they pull up their app to see who they are talking to and having it right their in front of them they just might put in their current pool of applicants then and there. Of course we have a lot of Jeff students here so they could probably provide more details.

 

[p0gono]

I suspect it would only matter in the rare instance where the dean of admissions (or another adcom member) is also the PD for your residency of choice.

I like doktermom's advice.

 

[idontknowwhatnametopick]

Hi All,

So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both attend" along with some other stuff about how were going together and this school was our first choice.

Long story short, he exchanged a few emails with the dean, and today I was accepted!

Only problem is that we were both accepted to another school within that time frame, and would rather go there than the place that just accepted me.

So my question is, how bad would it be to attend the other school? Would the admissions staff be significantly upset? Could it affect chances of potentially getting a residency at that school/hospital system in the future?

Thanks in advance!

Thanks for screwing up letters of intent for the rest of us who don't use them lightly.

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks for screwing up letters of intent for the rest of us who don't use them lightly.

I assure you, only a fool would believe them.

 

[Med Ed]

I would agree in the extremes, like cases that are already in the reject bin, but that doesn't mean a nudge here or there doesn't make a difference in large stacks of apps under consideration where the differences among apps are razor-thin. When applicants have been waiting and/or on hold for 6-7 mos with no word and then an email prompts issuance of an II, and you see that with enough frequency that a pattern is cited encouraging you to do the same, then I think there are conclusions to be drawn. I would also suggest that anything that gets an app "expedited" and/or a "second look" among a sea of apps with razor-thin differences is an advantage that those still stressing for any acceptance or an acceptance at a top choice would love to enjoy. As gyngyn notes the strategy can be risky, but that is why we see so many feel out the situation before acting and then pouncing when they come across adcoms who are known to be friendly to inquiries/nudges.

You know what happens when you feed a stray?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Whoops wrong thread

 

[idontknowwhatnametopick]

I assure you, only a fool would believe them.

Yeah so I've heard it's unfortunate.

 

[bumblebee611]

If letters of intent aren't taken seriously, then how did the OP suddenly get an acceptance after her boyfriend sent a few emails out?

Having a boyfriend send a couple messages and then getting accepted immediately afterwards is very troubling. It's not like they're married. Pretty lame way to get into med school as well.

Do you not realize that big swaths of academia take these sorts of relationships into account when recruiting professors? (It's sometimes referred to as the "two body problem.")

And yes, in theory it is "unfair" to single people, but plenty of people have all sorts of arguably unfair advantages in school, work, and life in general. I do not understand getting worked up over, almost undoubtedly, two highly qualified people getting the pleasure of choosing between TWO schools that accepted them both, versus the enormous advantages in this process enjoyed by applicants from wealthy and supportive families. People post here practically every day about poverty, trauma, and other serious disadvantages in this process, and you are getting all fired up over the fact that a school legitimately wants to hand out its acceptances to those who are most likely to attend, and thus thought it worth it to give a slot to this woman as opposed to some other statistically identical candidate who, in their view, would be less likely to attend?

The mother of one of the kids at my kids' school was recently diagnosed with metastatic cancer--it has so deteriorated her hip that she can't walk, and while she will receive treatment in hopes of extending her life, she almost surely will not live to see her kids grow up. She is a terrific person in every way, and this will not only leave her children motherless, it will leave her loving husband a widower. That's what I call unfair, not whether some young person gets a little nudge into one med school by expressing their enthusiasm and noting their loving relationship with another young person.

 

[Goro]

Are you really such a special snowflake that you think the Admissions Dean is going to either slit his wrists that you got away, or say "Screw this b***h, we're going to hunt her down and ruin her medical career forever!"

???????

If your med school was Jefferson, it received around 10000 apps, interviewed 842, and accepted around 500-600 people. They have plenty of people who want to go there.

Hi All,

So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both attend" along with some other stuff about how were going together and this school was our first choice.

 

[jqueb29]

Yes, you will be in deep trouble. When that med school thought you and your BF were going to be attending, they couldn't believe their good luck. After all these years of unremarkable medical students, they finally had the 2 students who were going to change everything! They would help you reach your full, almost limitless potential, and the groundbreaking things you would go on to accomplish would forever be remembered by the world with the recollection that "hey, they went to Medical School X!" But now, by changing your minds, you have doomed them to an eternity of mediocre medical students, forever ruining their one shot at glory......

They won't care one bit and will have your seats filled in a heartbeat. Attend school wherever you want to go, not where you mistakenly think you have some obligation to go.

 

[edgerock24]

Do you not realize that big swaths of academia take these sorts of relationships into account when recruiting professors? (It's sometimes referred to as the "two body problem.")

And yes, in theory it is "unfair" to single people, but plenty of people have all sorts of arguably unfair advantages in school, work, and life in general. I do not understand getting worked up over, almost undoubtedly, two highly qualified people getting the pleasure of choosing between TWO schools that accepted them both, versus the enormous advantages in this process enjoyed by applicants from wealthy and supportive families. People post here practically every day about poverty, trauma, and other serious disadvantages in this process, and you are getting all fired up over the fact that a school legitimately wants to hand out its acceptances to those who are most likely to attend, and thus thought it worth it to give a slot to this woman as opposed to some other statistically identical candidate who, in their view, would be less likely to attend?

The mother of one of the kids at my kids' school was recently diagnosed with metastatic cancer--it has so deteriorated her hip that she can't walk, and while she will receive treatment in hopes of extending her life, she almost surely will not live to see her kids grow up. She is a terrific person in every way, and this will not only leave her children motherless, it will leave her loving husband a widower. That's what I call unfair, not whether some young person gets a little nudge into one med school by expressing their enthusiasm and noting their loving relationship with another young person.

You're the one getting "worked up" as you're comparing a medical school admissions scenario to someone dying from cancer. I was simply looking for some insight from an adcom member.

Get off your high horse. Everyone knows that the real world is unfair in many ways.

 

[whatever5]

The medical school is not going to care, just do what you want to do. This will not affect your future prospects in any way.

 

[bumblebee611]

You're the one getting "worked up" as you're comparing a medical school admissions scenario to someone dying from cancer. I was simply looking for some insight from an adcom member.

Get off your high horse. Everyone knows that the real world is unfair in many ways.

Actually, I first compared it to real and substantial disadvantages in the med school admissions process, and to finding an academic job. You're right that I am probably more sensitive than usual given my friend's illness, but I do think your complaints about this woman's being accepted are pretty over the top, given the numerous sources of "unfairness" in this process and more broadly.

But I notice you haven't acknowledged that first part in any way, you are just setting up some kind of strawman and suggesting that I somehow "compared" it to the unfairness of cancer. And if you're going to tell me to get off my high horse, well, then, can you go back to the sandbox with the other whiny toddlers?

 

[Gem91]

I've seen this exact scenario play out twice over the last few years where I am employed, in which cases the second applicant was admitted almost immediately after emailing one of the deans about their undying love for the school and their partner. No more or less fair than both of a deans' children matriculating. I'm sure they are just as qualified as the rest of the class, but considering deans (of schools of medicine, not admissions) have the AAMC-given right to select members of the class according to their own interests, there can be compelling reasons to admit beyond AMCAS. The emails may have helped with the admission, but you do no one favors by going to a school that you don't want to attend. There are surely more emails in the dean's inbox and more applicants who would love to attend. Do them a favor and go where you and your partner will be happy. As someone else has stated, unless the admissions dean is a PD or especially close with one, your chances of affecting match day are almost non-existent, IMO. I would, however, have your boyfriend write an email as eloquently as the ones he wrote prior to your admission to tell the school that you have both chosen another program. Best of luck.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I'm curious, people keep saying it should be fine unless the dean knows the PD of a given program...

What if that were the case? Are they even allowed to consider things like this when programs make a rank list (obviously it's not enforceable, but just theory)

 

[gyngyn]

What if that were the case? Are they even allowed to consider things like this when programs make a rank list (obviously it's not enforceable, but just theory)

You bet they could.

 

[blackroses]

I'm curious, people keep saying it should be fine unless the dean knows the PD of a given program...

What if that were the case? Are they even allowed to consider things like this when programs make a rank list (obviously it's not enforceable, but just theory)

Where do people get these ideas from?

They're "allowed" to consider anything they want.

 

[Gem91]

Where I work, one of the admissions folks is married to a PD. I know it would never happen, but hypothetically-if the "offense" is too great-I wouldn't be surprised if it came up. And by too great, I mean something really egregious.