I was hoping to not have to ask but....

[Eforma]

I need some opinions on my decision-situation.

The programs:

Shenandoah's dual degree - DPT/MSAT (MS in Athletic Training)
Location: Virginia (pro because it's a new experience, con because it's so far away from friends/family)
School: Pro -- the classes are located between the main campus and the hospital, which appear to be walk/bike distance to each other. Con - facilities are nice, but (compared to UCSF) they were lacking in quality. Also, you share cadavers with up to 5 other students, as well as PA students so it sounded like while you got a pretty indepth look at internal anatomy, anatomy instruction might be lacking in other areas.
Program: PRO -- This was the program that has been my number 1 choice, up until the reality of loans/debt really started to sink in. It offers a second degree in athletic training - a field I love, though a degree that won't give me a huge return on my investment. Con -- you do not get breaks in this program - it looks like you have roughly 20units a semester, give or take, so it's really intense.
Cost: Tuition = $104K, Cost of Living = $40K for 4 years (rough, likely overestimate) -- CON

UCSF/SFSU DPT:
Location: San Francisco -- again, both pro and con, for the same reasons - pro for being close to family, con for being well, the same location I live in now.
School/Program: Pro -- good networking, state-of-the art facilities/equipment, opportunities for research, I already have contacts established in this area that I can continue to nurture. Cons -- located on 3 campus -- so commuting will take up a lot of time.
Cost: Tuition = $73K (rough estimate from website), COL will vary for me, as either I can continue to live Oakland rent-free (but then deal with the long commutes into the city - at least an hour one way) or I live in the city and look at about $50K for 3 years (living frugally) -- still a Pro over the total cost of SU -- other pro is that I am a CA resident, so I may qualify for CA grants -- no free money at SU for me.


I love the idea of moving to another state for some time, and getting offered a spot in this DPT/MSAT class has been a huge goal of mine, but I am having trouble stomaching the cost of tuition when I'm already in debt from undergrad. Also, while I would love to keep athletic training in my life, I know that I will more likely than not always have my primary job be PT, with AT side jobs if I do get the dual. I realize that this is a decision I will need to make for myself, but I'm incredibly conflicted. I'm hoping you guys might be able to bring to light some issues that I have yet to think of. Any help would appreciated!

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[jbizzle]

You can choose clinical sites in different cities out of state, if moving/relocating is something you'd really like to try. Therefore, maybe go to UCSF? Also, I was told cadavers were 2 PTs and 2 PAs to one cadaver......So the MSAT is an additional 50k? Having your support system will be beneficial as well.

 

[atstudent]

What's your bachelors in? You state "keep athletic training in my life," but then are applying for a potential Masters in Athletic Training? Isn't their program an "entry-level Masters" program that makes you eligible to sit for the BOC?

 

[Eforma]

What's your bachelors in? You state "keep athletic training in my life," but then are applying for a potential Masters in Athletic Training? Isn't their program an "entry-level Masters" program that makes you eligible to sit for the BOC?

I did Nutritional Sciences as my BS, but I spent 2.5 years w/the Cal Sports Medicine program as an intern, but Cal doesn't have a program that allows you to sit for the BOC. So that's why I want to keep it on the side.

@Jbizzle - thats a good point about the out-of-state clinicals. I think I've been focusing on other things that I keep forgetting that little, but important fact. Thanks for reminding me 🙂

 

[aggiecjg11]

To be honest, my parents have been trying to talk me out of the dual program (if I'm accepted). My dad pointed out that since it's the only program in the country, there may not be as much need for a dual degree as the program emphasizes. Sure, it's nice to have extra letters after your name, and it may open up a few more avenues, but is it worth the extra time (and 20 credit hours a semester!!) and money?

However, I know that you've wanted this for awhile and it's a passion of yours. If you feel strongly that you belong there, click with the faculty, enjoy the area, etc. then by all means go!

 

[Eforma]

To be honest, my parents have been trying to talk me out of the dual program (if I'm accepted). My dad pointed out that since it's the only program in the country, there may not be as much need for a dual degree as the program emphasizes. Sure, it's nice to have extra letters after your name, and it may open up a few more avenues, but is it worth the extra time (and 20 credit hours a semester!!) and money?

However, I know that you've wanted this for awhile and it's a passion of yours. If you feel strongly that you belong there, click with the faculty, enjoy the area, etc. then by all means go!

That's my problem. My heart wants me to go, because I've been pushing for this for so long, but my head (aka logic) is trying to tell me that I should pass it by. It's hard, because if there wasn't such a huge difference in cost (which, of course there has to be!) I would do the dual in heart-beat. But with all the factors in play, it's really hard to justify.

 

[mtm34]

Doing an MSAT really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you can get your DPT and then get your SCS (sports certified specialization). With this you are able to cover athletics if your interested.

 

[atstudent]

Doing an MSAT really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you can get your DPT and then get your SCS (sports certified specialization). With this you are able to cover athletics if your interested.

But you have to have EMT, first responder, or ATC credentials to be qualified. It's not a stand-alone..

 

[mtm34]

I don't know a PT that doesn't have their CPR and first responder credentials. It is very easy to receive a first responder certificate from the american red cross.

 

[Liquidrats]

My 2 cents:
I really encourage people to live in different areas. Even in America, there are lots of regional differences and I think a lot of pluses to getting outside your comfort zone. Yes SF is very diverse, but that's not the same as living in different places.
If you want this MSAT program, then go for it. You can get it and then find positions and opportunities to take advantage of after you graduate, I don't think it's necessarily a problem that you don't see an immediate application.

Cost: From your estimate, it's $144K vs $123K. I understand you have loans from undergrad, but I think these are both numbers you can handle. SMU brags about their 0% default rate, and with tuition ~$90K, that's a similar scenario to Shenandoah - think about USC!
good luck!

 

[NoleGirl4DPT]

I too, have had this same dilemma, although not with those two schools. But similar:

My dream school: $$$
The closer, more affordable choice: $

I'm a cautious/careful/frugal person. I managed to go 2 years in undergrad without debt and live on my own within my means (no parental financial help). But when it came to making a decision, it was really my friends and family that helped.

You only live once (depending on your religion..that's another story). But honestly, one way or the other, you are going to be doubting whether or not you made the right choice. But at the end of the day...are you going to be truly happy? Yes, you may be in debt...but there are ways to get them forgiven. I've recently been giving a lot of thought about doing military PT, or nonprofit organizations (Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders). While they are few and far between there are some companies that offer loan forgiveness too.

I hope you make a decision that you are comfortable with. I know a lot of us are going through similar situations with different schools from different financial standings, so you're definitely not the only one.

 

[jesspt]

I don't know a PT that doesn't have their CPR and first responder credentials. It is very easy to receive a first responder certificate from the american red cross.

I don't know any PTs who have their first responder certificate unless they have their SCS or are an ATC. It is unnecessary for those PTs who are not going to be doing on-field coverage of athletic events.

Eforma -

You have to figure out what interests you about the ATC side of things. Is it game coverage? Because if it isn't, there aren't that many aspects of working with athletes that you can't accomplish with a stand alone PT degree. Honestly, I can't figure out why it would be worth the extra cash.

 

[Eforma]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. It's definitely not an easy decision to make. It's also hard to think about, because I still haven't heard back from the CSUs (won't until April) and those are only a fraction (we're talking $30K for the entire program tuition) of either of these schools (then again they are master's....so yeah.)

Anywho, I appreciate the feedback, it brought up some good points that I need to seriously consider.

@jesspt -- I loved everything about my sports med internship -- the pregame treatments/tapings, the game coverage, the post-game treatments, the rehab days - the whole shebang. But yeah, it's a lot of extra cash, and the second degree doesn't increase my potential earnings all that much. It's hard, because I feel I can argue for both scenarios, but I just keep coming back to money. I hate it, but it's the simple truth.

 

[aggiecjg11]

Would you want to go to SU just for the DPT or is it not worth it without the MSAT tacked on?

 

[atstudent]

Just remember-- depending on what state you end up in, the practice acts are going to dictate what you can and cannot do. I doubt many state practice acts allow a PT to provide athletic training services-- that's reserved for athletic trainers. Even having the SCS credential doesn't make you a licensed athletic trainer..

 

[Eforma]

Would you want to go to SU just for the DPT or is it not worth it without the MSAT tacked on?

I would consider it (and I am) but I'm worried that I'll spend my time regretting not doing both. It would be a tease.

 

[jesspt]

I would consider it (and I am) but I'm worried that I'll spend my time regretting not doing both. It would be a tease.

I know several dual certified PT/ATCs, none of whom actually do what would be considered Athletic Training anymore. Real life things, such as family, tend to make it much less desireable to spend an entire Friday night watching a bunch of kids play football, none of whom are yours. Also, many ATCs are working on the weekend, and most of the PTs I know would rather spend their weekend doing something other than working.

Eforma - were their PT/ATCs doing the pre-game treatments and taping as well as field coverage during your internship? My guess is no, which may give you all you need to know about the dual degree you are considering. But I could be wrong.

Just remember-- depending on what state you end up in, the practice acts are going to dictate what you can and cannot do. I doubt many state practice acts allow a PT to provide athletic training services-- that's reserved for athletic trainers. Even having the SCS credential doesn't make you a licensed athletic trainer..

This is very true. But some practice acts may allow you to provide game coverage, etc. It will vary from state to state.