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I won a Rhodes Scholarship and have been accepted to med school. Should I reapply?
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Yes. Rhodes scholar program is extremely prestigious. Take the scholarship. It’ll open up a lot of doors down the line.
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Rhodes Scholarship would be a valid reason to ask for a deferral from the Med school that accepted you. You would return to THAT school though, a deferral is not the same as getting to apply over again.
I wouldnt do it. Its too risky and would require too much effort. In any case, your residency apps will surely receive a huge boost from rhodes such that going to a top school wont be anymore helpful/necessary
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If your main goal in pursuing the scholarship is to get into a 'better' medical school, then I would advise just starting medical school this year. While Rhodes is prestigious, it's by no means an auto-accept.
If your main goal in pursuing the scholarship is to take advantage of the experience and networking it brings, then ask for a deferral to guarantee your spot in a future class. Keep in mind that by deferring, you will not have the opportunity to reapply to other schools without voiding your deferral.
How isn’t Rhodes an auto accept at every t10?
Yeah honestly the prospect of re-studying and retaking the MCAT is terrifying
Lol well I updated all the T10 schools I applied to and haven't heard back except for a few Rs sooooo it definitely isn't a guarantee. Though I wonder if they had already made their decision about my file prior to me even updating them.
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Rhodes is a huge accomplishment, but what they look for and what med schools look for are not identical
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Just my 2c, I agree w @Moko
I think the best compromise would be (since you have already updated your schools), wait for other IIs potentially... and
1. take that scholarship!!!!
2. defer at the school you accept... and if you’re aiming at a competitive residency, you can still get a high step score, do research etc and put together a great application. FWIW, Georgetown also seems to match well.
I think the best compromise would be (since you have already updated your schools), wait for other IIs potentially... and
1. take that scholarship!!!!
2. defer at the school you accept... and if you’re aiming at a competitive residency, you can still get a high step score, do research etc and put together a great application. FWIW, Georgetown also seems to match well.
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A Rhodes won't make up for a poor GPA, a poor MCAT, or lack of ECs (though it helps). You don't have these problems, which makes me think of other issues with your app (poor essays, etc). I'd do the Rhodes and defer one of your current acceptances, then attend that school after your Rhodes. If you applied T10 this cycle and didn't get in with a Rhodes-winning/worthy application, I doubt you would get in if you applied again, even with the Rhodes under your belt.
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Not even close.
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I disagree. It won't compensate for a poor GPA and/or MCAT but outside of this, both are looking for the same "life experience".
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No school is going to abdicate their decision-making process to another group (however august).
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Of course not, I just feel that both look for similar qualities. Obviously achieving one in no way guarantees achieving the other.
Your telling me schools reject Rhodes scholars? How dare they!
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Happens.
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Congrats!!
The fact that you’re a reapplicant makes it a really tough call - I think 95% of the time Rhodes criteria are more stringent than medical school criteria and 95% of the time they overlap as well, but I think your situation seems to fall in the 5% of one of those distributions given you have had to reapply once and on reapplication got the Rhodes but not as many top 20 invites. Also obviously a risk to reapply again with an acceptance, but you can easily cite the reason now as you had this opportunity, so not like you’re turning down acceptances without a reason.
Considering all that and the non-trivial risk of reapplying again (not to mention the hassle of doing it while learning and enjoying the UK), I’d probably say take the top 20 (and defer matriculation until after the Rhodes) if you get off the waitlist, but I break from the pack here and say apply fresh if you don’t get that.
Couple of thoughts on why I say that (and for context I also did the fellowship circuit and afterward obviously went into medicine).
1) I know probably >10 Rhodes Scholars who went into medicine in the past ~5-10 years, and nearly all of them went to top 10-20 schools or their state school (usually for financial or “hometown” reasons, not because they couldn’t have gone elsewhere). Most applied the second year of their Rhodes or even after additional gap years, but a couple were accepted prior to going and deferred. It’s not an auto-accept, sure, but I think the weight of the scholarship itself being on an application at the beginning of the application season is being very much underestimated on this thread.
2) After the Rhodes you’ll have at least 1 more year of quite unique experience to add to your resume (if you decide to apply second year of the Rhodes) plus whatever you’re doing this year that didn’t make it on your app. It is exceedingly easy as a fellowship winner to do interesting work in the UK while you’re there (the connections are tremendous). Simply put, if you choose to, you will have a better resume when you apply again.
3) Med school tier matters for residency tier and med+ jobs, so you have a lot to gain by going through the hassle of reapplying. SDN is kind of an all or nothing place when it comes to rankings - people either strongly believe they matter or “you’re going to be a doctor at any school.” Now I don’t think it’s Harvard or bust, and I think if the goal is solely to practice clinical medicine it matters less, but top schools match at top residencies at far higher rates than places like Georgetown (and seeing how residency selection works I can say it’s not all just confounding by self-selection on where people apply, etc). I don’t know your career goals, but many Rhodes I know have strong non-clinical interests too (want to practice part time and do part time admin, startups, policy, etc), and being at a top school generally connects you to more like-minded peers (and especially well-known faculty in those areas). Again, If your goal is to simply become a practicing cardiologist in the mountain west or something I do then think the med school tier matters less.
Ultimately only you know your complete app, career goals, and whether you’d want to take it easy in the UK or be working hard to garner experiences specifically tailored towards improving a Med school app. And ultimately, I think you have to decide how risk- averse you are. But I don’t think it’d be crazy to reapply if you don’t get off that top 20 waitlist (or if for some odd reason they didn’t let you defer matriculation).
The Rhodes is going to be an amazing experience regardless, so while this is a tough decision, get excited!
The fact that you’re a reapplicant makes it a really tough call - I think 95% of the time Rhodes criteria are more stringent than medical school criteria and 95% of the time they overlap as well, but I think your situation seems to fall in the 5% of one of those distributions given you have had to reapply once and on reapplication got the Rhodes but not as many top 20 invites. Also obviously a risk to reapply again with an acceptance, but you can easily cite the reason now as you had this opportunity, so not like you’re turning down acceptances without a reason.
Considering all that and the non-trivial risk of reapplying again (not to mention the hassle of doing it while learning and enjoying the UK), I’d probably say take the top 20 (and defer matriculation until after the Rhodes) if you get off the waitlist, but I break from the pack here and say apply fresh if you don’t get that.
Couple of thoughts on why I say that (and for context I also did the fellowship circuit and afterward obviously went into medicine).
1) I know probably >10 Rhodes Scholars who went into medicine in the past ~5-10 years, and nearly all of them went to top 10-20 schools or their state school (usually for financial or “hometown” reasons, not because they couldn’t have gone elsewhere). Most applied the second year of their Rhodes or even after additional gap years, but a couple were accepted prior to going and deferred. It’s not an auto-accept, sure, but I think the weight of the scholarship itself being on an application at the beginning of the application season is being very much underestimated on this thread.
2) After the Rhodes you’ll have at least 1 more year of quite unique experience to add to your resume (if you decide to apply second year of the Rhodes) plus whatever you’re doing this year that didn’t make it on your app. It is exceedingly easy as a fellowship winner to do interesting work in the UK while you’re there (the connections are tremendous). Simply put, if you choose to, you will have a better resume when you apply again.
3) Med school tier matters for residency tier and med+ jobs, so you have a lot to gain by going through the hassle of reapplying. SDN is kind of an all or nothing place when it comes to rankings - people either strongly believe they matter or “you’re going to be a doctor at any school.” Now I don’t think it’s Harvard or bust, and I think if the goal is solely to practice clinical medicine it matters less, but top schools match at top residencies at far higher rates than places like Georgetown (and seeing how residency selection works I can say it’s not all just confounding by self-selection on where people apply, etc). I don’t know your career goals, but many Rhodes I know have strong non-clinical interests too (want to practice part time and do part time admin, startups, policy, etc), and being at a top school generally connects you to more like-minded peers (and especially well-known faculty in those areas). Again, If your goal is to simply become a practicing cardiologist in the mountain west or something I do then think the med school tier matters less.
Ultimately only you know your complete app, career goals, and whether you’d want to take it easy in the UK or be working hard to garner experiences specifically tailored towards improving a Med school app. And ultimately, I think you have to decide how risk- averse you are. But I don’t think it’d be crazy to reapply if you don’t get off that top 20 waitlist (or if for some odd reason they didn’t let you defer matriculation).
The Rhodes is going to be an amazing experience regardless, so while this is a tough decision, get excited!
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If I recieved a Rhodes and a med school acceptance- I would defer med school and do the Rhodes.
It would no doubt hurt but Rhodes is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
It would no doubt hurt but Rhodes is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
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I guess the real question is what do you see yourself doing in 10 yrs? How will the scholarship help you get there?
The scholarship itself is a feather in your hat for sure. It might open doors, especially if you want to be a Dept Chair at a university. Personally, I became a physician to take care of people. You couldn't pay me enough to be a chairman. I hate meetings and the administrative "process". I personally am more about results than process. I myself would never apply for it.So it comes down to a personal decision IMO, will it aid you ou in attaining your goals? I think the vast majority would say yes, if you can clearly define your goals at this time in your life.
Congratulations on receiving the scholarship offer! It is a big honor and you are an outstanding candidate. Good luck and best wishes!
The scholarship itself is a feather in your hat for sure. It might open doors, especially if you want to be a Dept Chair at a university. Personally, I became a physician to take care of people. You couldn't pay me enough to be a chairman. I hate meetings and the administrative "process". I personally am more about results than process. I myself would never apply for it.So it comes down to a personal decision IMO, will it aid you ou in attaining your goals? I think the vast majority would say yes, if you can clearly define your goals at this time in your life.
Congratulations on receiving the scholarship offer! It is a big honor and you are an outstanding candidate. Good luck and best wishes!
Thank you both!
This is what I am struggling with most. I know that if I wanted to purely be a clinician, my school choice doesn't matter as much. However, I just don't KNOW if that is what I want to do 10 years down the line. Even within the last few years, my perception of medicine and all that I could do as a doctor has changed so much. I could totally see myself working as a clinician but I could also see myself in academia or policy. It is that uncertainty of not knowing specifically what I want to do that is making me even consider reapplying, just so I can keep as many doors open as possible and be in the best position when i finally do make up my mind.
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To be honest, your story is so incredible that it just seems like an elaborate troll, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and point out that, given what you posted, you really don't have any decision at all.
You are WL at a T20 that you would be happy to attend. If an update saying you have been awarded a Rhodes Scholarship doesn't vault you to the very top of the WL, and cause the dean to personally show up at your apartment with flowers and chocolate and get on his knees begging you to attend, that should be a canary in a coal mine for you regarding what will happen to you as a third time applicant with the arrogance to turn down acceptances in the 2019-20 cycle and expect T5 schools to jump at you later, after rejecting you twice before, because you now possess the Key to Life.
If everything in your OP is true, I think you are good because the school that liked you enough to WL you will now love you as a Rhodes Scholar, so you're done. If that doesn't happen and you don't take that as a sign, you will deserve whatever happens to you on your next cycle.
If nothing else, you will be displaying a level of arrogance and lack of judgment that schools just hate to see in applicants. Deferring an acceptance to go to England for this is expected and perfectly acceptable. Turning down an A to roll the dice on a upgrade as a third time applicant will not be acceptable, and will be insulting to the schools that already rejected you twice by implying that you were so convinced that they would allow the judgment of the Rhodes committee to supplant their own that you turned down other acceptances to reapply.
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The best thing you can do is defer at Georgetown and take the Rhodes. Anything other than this option would be a waste and lead you into a precarious position.
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I appreciate that you think my story is incredible.
I think you're being a bit reductivist. I am not implying that the judgment of the schools of the schools would or should be supplanted by the judgment of the Rhodes committee. I am saying I will have new, stronger experiences (both the Rhodes itself and a year of unique, quality experiences like @seeinghowitgoes mentioned) that would be appealing to the schools that I did not have before. That is the very premise of a reapplication. That is why I got accepted my second time and not the first time. I had new, quality experiences that I did not have my first time applying. A potential third time is just an extension of that to a much higher degree. I also think it is inaccurate to say with absolute certainty, like you are doing, that applying again WILL not be acceptable and WILL insult all schools that rejected me prior. Frankly, I agree with you that not being pulled of the WL is not a good indicator of my chances for a future cycle. But again, it doesn't make sense to be fatalistic about it since there are so many new variables at play. Hence me making this thread.
You seem almost personally offended that I would post something like this. Rest assured, I am not trolling. I don't even understand how all of this detail and effort would be a good attempt at trolling as trolls like to post things that are controversial and divisive and watch people argue amongst themselves. None of that is happening here and I am actively engaging the thread. You're doubting the legitimacy of what I am saying because it is uncommon. The entire reason I am posting at all is BECAUSE my situation is uncommon.
If you reapply, you probably will get into a top 20 if not top 10. Not all schools might bite but I bet some will. In any case, its not worth reapplying even if you did get into a T10 because the rhodes is such a boost down the line regardless.
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Many people, incl KnightDoc, have given you very good advice here. You seem a little defensive, even though everyone here is giving you the benefit of the doubt
I'm not an adcom, but having known some Rhodes Scholars, I stand by those who argue that those who are Rhodes-caliber should easily get T20. Of course it's nothing is an auto-admit, but med schools & Rhodes inherently screen for the same thing. Rhodes screens for exceptional academic record, looks for candidates that have demonstrated dedication to public service and good social skills (the last interview is literally a cocktail reception). These qualities make ideal med school applicants, short of a bad MCAT score (but sounds like yours wasn't that bad).
Here is the profile of last year winners (just cool & inspiring to look through in general): http://s3.amazonaws.com/rhodesscholars-fileshare/final_winners_bios_2019.pdf (copy and paste URL)
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If that's the case, defer and take the scholarship. You can always go from Dept chair to clinical work, but without the scholarship, going from clinical to Chairman might be more difficult. It will give you more options, for sure.
Haha yeah I naturally am defending against the implication of this being a troll post. But yeah I agree, it is all very good advice, including KnightDoc's. Like I mentioned, I am in the same headspace. If I get in off the WL then perfect, no issues there. If not, probably a sign for what would come if I reapply. But I don't see it as set in stone which is why I'm soliciting as many opinons as possible!Many people, incl KnightDoc, have given you very good advice here. You seem a little defensive, even though everyone here is giving you the benefit of the doubt
I'm not an adcom, but having known some Rhodes Scholars, I stand by those who argue that those who are Rhodes-caliber should easily get T20. Of course it's nothing is an auto-admit, but med schools & Rhodes inherently screen for the same thing. Rhodes screens for exceptional academic record, looks for candidates that have demonstrated dedication to public service and good social skills (the last interview is literally a cocktail reception). These qualities make ideal med school applicants, short of a bad MCAT score (but sounds like yours wasn't that bad).
Here is the profile of last year winners (just cool & inspiring to look through in general): http://s3.amazonaws.com/rhodesscholars-fileshare/final_winners_bios_2019.pdf (copy and paste URL)
In reference to the rest of your post, I agree, most Rhodes caliber applicants are also T20 and T10 caliber for medical school. I don't know what to tell ya, wasn't the case for me barring the WL. Hopefully I get some more IIs or something but I am not even sure if those schools are sending them out at this point.
Thank you! How exactly can you become a dept chair WITHOUT having done substantial clinical work? In my mind, it was more of a sequence, where chairman and other such administrative roles came after proving yourself as a clinician.
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Fair enough, and I am now more of a believer. No, I am not personally offended. In fact, a Rhodes Scholarship is such an impossibility for me that I really can't relate. I honestly cannot imagine what could possibly be deficient in your med school applications that would force you into a second cycle while you are simultaneously so extraordinary that you win a Rhodes, yet here you are.
If you think the opportunities on the other side of a third cycle are so much better than what you have now, you should go for it, but do so with your eyes wide open, because the worst that could happen is you don't have an opportunity to attend medical school. With the Rhodes Scholarship I'm sure many other doors will be open to you. Good luck!!!
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I would guess that your MCAT was not that impressive. The Rhodes can be much higher on "soft factors" than medical school. I am assuming you are not URM. You would need to get your MCAT above 515 and my guess is any school would expect a rhodes scholar to be able to cross that relatively low threshold. My other guess is that maybe you are coming off as not committed to medicine in your application.
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Academics is more about publications and research than treating patients.
If you just want to treat patients and make money, then this Rhodes is a waste of time. ”Prestige” is way over-rated on SDN.
I was just googling this. I’m curious what your “qualities of manhood, truth, courage” are.
It is also apparent that this is the OLD criteria. But it looks fun.
If you just want to treat patients and make money, then this Rhodes is a waste of time. ”Prestige” is way over-rated on SDN.
I was just googling this. I’m curious what your “qualities of manhood, truth, courage” are.
It is also apparent that this is the OLD criteria. But it looks fun.
I mean I got a decent amount of IIs (7) and a good deal were from traditionally low-yield schools as well as from state schools that I am not IS for. I also have multiple acceptances so Idk. I think I painted a pretty good picture of why medicine and have a lot of involvement clinically and non-clinically. But maybe I am not the most accurate judge of my own qualifications.
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If that is the case, then my guess is your MCAT score is not high enough a candidate at a T20. A 510 or 512 or 31 on the old MCAT will not cut it at T-20, even with a Rhodes Scholarship.
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Lets say in this alternative world, you DID decide to take the Rhodes, cancel your Acceptances (which I dont advise) and reapply.
1. Would you be applying THIS summer?
Things to keep in mind: The cost of applying, writing all those extra essays (reapplying, Rhodes), getting LORs, and potentially the MCAT.
Are you ready right now to re-take it and get a fab score? What if you DIDN'T?
2. Unless there was vast improvement on all fronts (MCAT, clinical experiences etc) as of right now, you wouldn't be any better off applying again.
Whatever got you the Rhodes (like academics, life experiences) were already on your app when you applied this cycle so while having that designation could be desirable by T20s ("Oh yes we have X Rhodes scholars in our incoming class" etc), you are taking a huge risk, not to mention... the opportunity cost of continually delaying your journey into medicine.
While GTown may not be a "T20 school" that you had hoped for, it is nothing to sneeze at.
They have immense policy opportunities, given their geographic location and as well as multidisciplinary connections (from their other affiliated grad schools).
You already have acceptances this cycle.
Don't throw away what was already earned after a lot of effort just for the possibility of something greater. You might regret it BIGLY.
1. Would you be applying THIS summer?
Things to keep in mind: The cost of applying, writing all those extra essays (reapplying, Rhodes), getting LORs, and potentially the MCAT.
Are you ready right now to re-take it and get a fab score? What if you DIDN'T?
2. Unless there was vast improvement on all fronts (MCAT, clinical experiences etc) as of right now, you wouldn't be any better off applying again.
Whatever got you the Rhodes (like academics, life experiences) were already on your app when you applied this cycle so while having that designation could be desirable by T20s ("Oh yes we have X Rhodes scholars in our incoming class" etc), you are taking a huge risk, not to mention... the opportunity cost of continually delaying your journey into medicine.
While GTown may not be a "T20 school" that you had hoped for, it is nothing to sneeze at.
They have immense policy opportunities, given their geographic location and as well as multidisciplinary connections (from their other affiliated grad schools).
You already have acceptances this cycle.
Don't throw away what was already earned after a lot of effort just for the possibility of something greater. You might regret it BIGLY.
Must be a Navy Seal
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Perhapy the problem is that they know that if they accept you and you do the Rhodes Scholar program, you are not coming to the school this year. If they accept you and you come this year, you won't do the Rhodes Scholar program. Most med schools want matriculants for this year and give deferrals after acceptance for those who find out later that they need to defer. Your situation is very different, and while I'm not involved in med school admissions, I might not want to accept you if I knew you were going to defer.
My advice? Take the acceptance, defer, and come back to medical school in a year with the Rhodes Scholarship under your belt. Do well in medical school and you'll have a great choice of residencies given your experiences.
That is a fair point though I will say that some of the schools that accepted me were schools that I notified of the scholarship post interview. And I made it pretty clear that I would be pursuing the scholarship regardless. They probably knew I was going to defer and accepted me regardless. Though obviously this may differ from school to school and I just got lucky with those schools.
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Very true. That being said, I think the Rhodes scholarship will help you quite a bit during the residency interview process, so for me, the expense and risk of applying again to medical school after receiving an acceptance from a prestigious school far outweighs the benefit.
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My two cents: I think people are vastly underestimating the value of having the scholarship on your application. OP, if you did reapply I'd be very surprised if you didn't end up at a T10, provided your MCAT passes the minimum screen at these schools (32/33 so 513-515, unless you come from an underrepresented / highly sought out background in which case it would be lower). Whether or not you actually reapply, though, would depend on your personal goals. Good luck!
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Becoming a Dept Chair is when pedigree becomes much more important.
Yeah the fact that the scholarship itself will help during residency is the main consideration that is pushing me towards not reapplying
Well, I would be doing the scholarship regardless. In that scenario, is the pedigree of the med school still equally important as it would be otherwise. Specifically, I could see myself ultimately pursuing something like becoming a medical director of a hospital.
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Medical director you will be fine graduating from most MD schools. University Dept Chair will require academic achievement, aka, publications, clinical skills,aka reputation, and most often med school pedigree. If you look at most dept chairs bios, they usually come from good schools and top residencies.
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Add my vote to run with the acceptance, defer, do the Rhodes and then come back to your school.
Note that the majority of people advising you to decline the acceptance and reapply are pre-meds.
Note that the majority of people advising you to decline the acceptance and reapply are pre-meds.
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I’m gonna piggyback on this. You know how stressful and insane the application process is. Don’t redo all of that work you already put in for a gamble.
I agree with all these!
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Ok yeah, I was leaning towards just taking whatever acceptance I get and deferring so this helped a ton! Thank you all!
I was also wondering about whether it is a good idea to potentially do my medical degree at Oxford too. I want to do residency in the US and I know it's harder as a FMG but I wonder if Oxford's caliber makes up for that disadvantage?
I was also wondering about whether it is a good idea to potentially do my medical degree at Oxford too. I want to do residency in the US and I know it's harder as a FMG but I wonder if Oxford's caliber makes up for that disadvantage?
Please don't turn this into accused for Rhode Scholarship !
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You seem really fixated on getting a shiny degree and would almost forfeit all available options until you get a brand name MD... or now... Oxford?
Is doing the Rhodes even a guarantee/shoe-in for Oxford?
You seem to be over-complicating things and I question what your real goals are (aka do you want to be a physician or a physician from XYZ school)?
:-(
I mean...Oxford is an internationally renowned school for medicine. I would like a good education too (and yes I know american MDs can offer a good education as well). I am the type of person who likes to have a sense for all options.
Also you're being a little extreme. Simply asking a question doesn't suggest that I'm on the very edge of forfeiting all other options. Again, just exploring as many contingencies as I can. What if I fall in love with the school and genuinely want to study there (Assuming I get in of course)? I don't see that outside of the realm of possibility and it doesn't seem like an unfair question to ask how doing so would affect my residency prospects.
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Getting to study at Oxford is a huge opportunity and you’ll make a lot of connections through the Rhodes. I won a similar U.K. scholarship and it was one of the most fantastic experiences of my life. Strongly disagree with people stating you should turn down the scholarship and start med school. You should defer at the school you’ve been accepted at, which they almost certainly should grant for something as prestigious as this scholarship.
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