I would be proud, and honored, and humbled

[searun]

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to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States. So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor. If we are educated at any accredited medical shool and licensed as professionals who can be servants to the sick and dying, what an honor and a priviledge ...kill your egos, folks.

Searun

 

[spicedmanna]

to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States. So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor. If we are educated at any accredited medical shool and licensed as professionals who can be servants to the sick and dying, what an honor and a priviledge ...kill your egos, folks.

Searun

👍

 

[MWillie]

Not bloody likely. Stop trying to equate barely accredited Ros Franklin with Hopkins. You belittle the achievements of those that worked hard to gain acceptance into a Tier I school with your comments, premed.

 

[physicsnerd42]

to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States. So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor. If we are educated at any accredited medical shool and licensed as professionals who can be servants to the sick and dying, what an honor and a priviledge ...kill your egos, folks.

Searun

Hear, hear!

 

[Wackie]

to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States.

x's eleventy billion

👍

 

[astrife]

to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States. So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor. If we are educated at any accredited medical shool and licensed as professionals who can be servants to the sick and dying, what an honor and a priviledge ...kill your egos, folks.

Searun

What are you mad about? The fact that schools are tiered like most things in life? Get over your self righteousness.

You know what Johhns Hopkins, Harvard, Duke, Columbia, Michigan, etc... are top tier schools. The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences is not (although it serves its role in providing competent physicians for the state, it is still not the premiere instituition).

I can get an accredited degree at the local CC, but a degree from Harvard is still better. And you know why? Because Harvard is a top tier school, and the CC is not.

Don't bitch at people for categorizing schools just because you cannot get into the better ones.

 

[Biostats.moore]

Hear! Hear!

 

[MWillie]

What are you mad about? The fact that schools are tiered like most things in life? Get over your self righteousness.

You know what Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Duke, Columbia, Michigan, etc... are top tier schools. The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences is not (although it serves its role in providing competent physicians for the state, it is still not the premiere instituition).

I can get an accredited degree at the local CC, but a degree from Harvard is still better. And you know why? Because Harvard is a top tier school, and the CC is not.

Don't bitch at people for categorizing schools just because you cannot get into the better ones.

Hear, hear! 👍

 

[astrife]

Not bloody likely. Stop trying to equate barely accredited Ros Franklin with Hopkins. You belittle the achievements of those that worked hard to gain acceptance into a Tier I school with your comments, premed.

quite right!

 

[alwaysaangel]

to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States. So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor. If we are educated at any accredited medical shool and licensed as professionals who can be servants to the sick and dying, what an honor and a priviledge ...kill your egos, folks.

Searun

Hear, hear! But you see, the people who insist on top tier schools don't really want to be physicians - they want to be researchers...which is fine. I personally like people and want the primary care aspect. So any school that will give me an MD will be fine, hell if they decide I'm not worthy of an MD I'll get an NP or PA - same patient interaction - fine by me.

But I'm not really career driven so thats probably a big difference in how I view it.

 

[baylormed]

I would too be MORE honored in I got into Harvard/Yale/etc than I would be if I were accepted to a low-tier school, because I know these schools only take the top of the top.

However (in my humble opinion), I think the OP was trying to say that he doesn't understand those people that say "I want to be a doctor with all my heart....but I will only go to a top tier school." In other words, if you wanted to be a doctor with all your heart you would be proud to be accepted into ANY med school simply because medicine is your passion. If you choose to go to a top school fine, but don't belittle other medical schools just because you think you are so amazingly smart and therefore better. I'm afraid one doesn't cause the other.

Either way, I don't believe low-tier medical schools produce bad doctors while the top schools produce good doctors. It's all in what the students make of it, their human capacity for compassion and professionalism (going to Harvard doesn't exclude anyone from being a jerk/arrogant doctor).

 

[ExKitty Doctor]

What are you mad about? The fact that schools are tiered like most things in life? Get over your self righteousness.

You know what Johhns Hopkins, Harvard, Duke, Columbia, Michigan, etc... are top tier schools. The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences is not (although it serves its role in providing competent physicians for the state, it is still not the premiere instituition).

I can get an accredited degree at the local CC, but a degree from Harvard is still better. And you know why? Because Harvard is a top tier school, and the CC is not.

Don't bitch at people for categorizing schools just because you cannot get into the better ones.

I think what seasrun is trying to say is that for any school to be accredited, to license people to become physicians who have such a direct impact on others' health... thats an honor. Whether the school of 1st or last, it all comes down to treating patients - which is what people here should care about, not what tier their med school is. Its unfortuneate there is this rampant premed competition to go into a field that is supposed to be about selflessness and doing one's best for another person.
Its an interesting irony. But really, people saying "oh you're just jealous beacuse you can't get in to hopkins" .. a little humility, future physicians. We should be supporting eachother.

 

[alwaysaangel]

What are you mad about? The fact that schools are tiered like most things in life? Get over your self righteousness.

You know what Johhns Hopkins, Harvard, Duke, Columbia, Michigan, etc... are top tier schools. The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences is not (although it serves its role in providing competent physicians for the state, it is still not the premiere instituition).

I can get an accredited degree at the local CC, but a degree from Harvard is still better. And you know why? Because Harvard is a top tier school, and the CC is not.

Don't bitch at people for categorizing schools just because you cannot get into the better ones.

Arkansas is 38 in rankings for primary care - whereas yale and Columbia aren't on the list at all and John Hopkins is 41. So top tier? Maybe - for research. But for those of us who want the direct patient contact they would be piss poor choices.

 

[pharmacytech]

lets just all get into whatever medical school we can😀

 

[MWillie]

Arkansas is 38 in rankings for primary care - whereas yale and Columbia aren't on the list at all and John Hopkins is 41. So top tier? Maybe - for research. But for those of us who want the direct patient contact they would be piss poor choices.

Have you taken the time to look at the primary care ranking criteria? Explain to me how that correlates with patient contact.

 

[notdeadyet]

So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor.

Why care? Nothing says that lower tier medical schools don't produce plenty of great doctors and nothing says that top tier medical schools don't produce some lousy ones. I'd just ignore it.

Most premeds are very status oriented. Nothing says that you need to be. But I think you have to accept that since ratings are nice and pretty and don't require a lot of thought, people will be drawn to them.

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

Ryan Howard for MVP

 

[mcat_study]

to be admitted to any accredited medical school in the United States. So these comments about "lower tier medical schools" are an insult to the profession that we seek to enter and honor. If we are educated at any accredited medical shool and licensed as professionals who can be servants to the sick and dying, what an honor and a priviledge ...kill your egos, folks.

Searun

agree 🙂 rankings of med schools are not directly correlated with students' achivements, and certainly not with how successful their medical career will be. those who think otherwise are very much in the dark😱

 

[PerpetualBurn]

While some schools may be better than others depending on your point of comparison, the responses of those who supported this claim were needlessly harsh.

 

[mcat_study]

.

 

[spicedmanna]

What are you mad about? The fact that schools are tiered like most things in life? Get over your self righteousness.

You know what Johhns Hopkins, Harvard, Duke, Columbia, Michigan, etc... are top tier schools. The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences is not (although it serves its role in providing competent physicians for the state, it is still not the premiere instituition).

I can get an accredited degree at the local CC, but a degree from Harvard is still better. And you know why? Because Harvard is a top tier school, and the CC is not.

Don't bitch at people for categorizing schools just because you cannot get into the better ones.

Hmm... I agree that you can, if you so choose, categorize schools as you wish based on whatever criteria you want (criteria, to some degree, is always based on what YOU value, is it not?). Last I checked, nobody was trying to impinge on your basic freedoms, mate. Chill. I'd be the first to squawk if that were the case. If you want to do that, great man. I don't think anybody is questioning that Harvard is rated higher than, say, RFU on USNEWS' scale as a research medical school. That's not arguable. And sure, it might make it easier based on name recognition to get a more competitive residency. It's arguable, but has truth to it. You should be proud if you made it to Harvard Medical.

And yes, in our society people do judge, "better", or "worse"; in other words, "good", or "bad". That's a reality. Yet, I believe the OP is not so much bashing people who choose to judge schools in that manner, but inviting us to look beyond mere judgments. That's the intention I'm reading from his post, anyway. There are infinitely more interesting things to do than scale medical schools.

The basic issue in all this is that there is no easy correlation between the quality of doctor you are going to be and what school you eventually graduate from. I mean that's all you. Sure going to a "top tier" school will definitely give you some advantages, but there is nothing that says just because you go to HMS I'd want you to treat my future child, or that you are clinically gifted somehow.

The reality check is that most patients don't care what your GPA was and don't really, beyond a certain level, care what school you graduated from. They don't care whether you have an MD or DO. All they care about is that you treat them compassionately, engender trust, and given em your all. Just look at the statistics of malpractice; most patients sue their docs not because they think they are incompetent, it's because their docs didn't treat them right.

That's what I think.

 

[etf]

at first i used to think like the op - like when i was at one of my interviews, and when i told a fellow interviewee where my previous interview was at, they were like "oh, i got an invite from them, but i just threw it in the trash, where it belongs" (they seriously said those exact words). but i also agree with the dude that says that blanket statements like the first one detract from the accomplishments of those who worked hard enough (or just got lucky) to be able to consider the top schools. i think given how hard it is to get into med school in general, those that get into top schools should definately be proud (and can display that pride in these semi-anonymous forums), but that you don't have to be an ass about it, especially in real life...

 

[alwaysaangel]

Have you taken the time to look at the primary care ranking criteria? Explain to me how that correlates with patient contact.

As a matter of fact I have, but if you seriously want to go into a discussion of criteria lets face it - the whole ranking system for both research and primary care is pretty pointless.

And I didn't say the school actually focused on patient contact, I said it was how it ranked which takes into account how many students enter primary care, etc. Although I must say some completeley non-ranked programs (such as GWU) give tons of patient care from the get-go. So again, ranking = worthless to anyone not interested in research. I will probably never be asked where I went to medical school by one of my patients and even if I was they wouldn't care where it was - so wtf does name value do for me? Nada.

 

[searun]

Not bloody likely. Stop trying to equate barely accredited Ros Franklin with Hopkins. You belittle the achievements of those that worked hard to gain acceptance into a Tier I school with your comments, premed.

you were not rated or ranked...where you could not check your "score" to make certain that you were "better" than the person you were encountering...I am sure that objectively, you are very successful, but if you spend you whole life keeping score, you will miss the point of life...as you die, what will your last thought be... yeah, I had a great MCAT score...or more prestige than the other guy...or more money...or my kid got into Harvard...how very sad and pathetic.

Searun

 

[tok]

Ryan Howard for MVP

If the Phillies get the wild card.

 

[MWillie]

you were not rated or ranked...where you could not check your "score" to make certain that you were "better" than the person you were encountering...I am sure that objectively, you are very successful, but if you spend you whole life keeping score, you will miss the point of life...as you die, what will your last thought be... yeah, I had a great MCAT score...or more prestige than the other guy...or more money...or my kid got into Harvard...how very sad and pathetic.

Searun

Why don't you go to the idealic la la land of candy canes and faeries where everything is perfect and everyone is equal.

You are looking down upon others with different beliefs just as much and perhaps more than I do. At least I'm no hypocrit.

Edit: ever heard of punctuation?

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

If the Phillies get the wild card.

He deserves it regardless. The man is just sick, and naturally so

 

[MWillie]

 

[baylormed]

at first i used to think like the op - like when i was at one of my interviews, and when i told a fellow interviewee where my previous interview was at, they were like "oh, i got an invite from them, but i just threw it in the trash, where it belongs" (they seriously said those exact words). but i also agree with the dude that says that blanket statements like the first one detract from the accomplishments of those who worked hard enough (or just got lucky) to be able to consider the top schools. i think given how hard it is to get into med school in general, those that get into top schools should definately be proud (and can display that pride in these semi-anonymous forums), but that you don't have to be an ass about it, especially in real life...

You're basing your opinion on something a jerk said during one of your interview (not even an adcom, but a fellow applicant)???

 

[geno2568]

please, allow me to be selfish for a minute

Schools like Drexel, RFU, NYMC are med schools. They'r probably even good med schools, since I don't think there are bad ones in the US.

But schools like Harvard, JHU, Penn.....they're not just schools. They are what we dream about. They are what the world sees as leaders of medicine. They are a lot more than just schools. To equate them to other "medical schools" is to neglect their position in our society.

And to be able to attend such a school....no matter what you do afterwards, you will always be a graduate of HMS/JHU/Penn. No matter what kind of shyt life throws at you, you were once one of the elite, one of the best out there.

 

[mcat_study]

oh yes, and i suggest to Mwillie to creat a thread: I am too good for this forum and all med schools excerpt Harvard. 🙄 may the carma of this thread will get him in.

 

[MWillie]

oh yes, and i suggest to Mwillie to creat a thread: I am too good for this forum and all med schools excerpt Harvard. 🙄 may the carma of this thread will get him in.

I can barely understand what you're saying.
I don't create pointless threads, unlike some others here.

 

[searun]

If I were a dating service, I definitely would get you two together.

Searun

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

please, allow me to be selfish for a minute

Schools like Drexel, RFU, NYMC are med schools. They'r probably even good med schools, since I don't think there are bad ones in the US.

But schools like Harvard, JHU, Penn.....they're not just schools. They are what we dream about. They are what the world sees as leaders of medicine. They are a lot more than just schools. To equate them to other "medical schools" is to neglect their position in our society.

And to be able to attend such a school....no matter what you do afterwards, you will always be a graduate of HMS/JHU/Penn. No matter what kind of shyt life throws at you, you were once one of the elite, one of the best out there.

I'm glad you think one of the schools I am interested in is PROBABLY a good school, I feel much much better now 🙄

 

[spicedmanna]

please, allow me to be selfish for a minute

Schools like Drexel, RFU, NYMC are med schools. They'r probably even good med schools, since I don't think there are bad ones in the US.

But schools like Harvard, JHU, Penn.....they're not just schools. They are what we dream about. They are what the world sees as leaders of medicine. They are a lot more than just schools. To equate them to other "medical schools" is to neglect their position in our society.

And to be able to attend such a school....no matter what you do afterwards, you will always be a graduate of HMS/JHU/Penn. No matter what kind of shyt life throws at you, you were once one of the elite, one of the best out there.

I don't think any of those schools that you mentioned are equal, except at the most fundamental level: you get an MD when you graduate.

There's nothing wrong with judging, for yourself, the level of a medical school. Again, you should be proud. Like I said before, depending on what criteria you use, there ARE better and worse schools. There is such a thing as reputation. HMS does have a great reputation, as you say. If you want to identify with that reputation, I don't think anybody would hold it against you; indeed, they'd probably be impressed, too, if you were humble about it. Yet, going to HMS doesn't make you a leader in medicine; you are a leader in medicine who graduated from HMS. That's how I see it. The seeds of leadership begin long before medical school. And, true, going to HMS might automatically confer some kind of traditional commitment to excellence, it might even make you an excellent doctor, it does not, however, automatically make you a great doctor in my book. A great doctor is not only the product of his past choices, but the choices that he is making NOW.

I don't automatically jump when somebody says the are an MD from HMS. I'd look at his actions, and the results of his work, to see if I'd like him to be my doc.

 

[dcolon_et06]

Kinda goes along with that one joke: "So what do you call a med student who graduates last in his class...? A doctor"

I guess you could use it in this situation: "So what do you call a med student who graduated from a bottom teir med school...? A doctor"

And besides, the great destroyer of specialty dreams in med school is the USMLE (sp?) right? Just the same as the MCAT is for undergrad. School name plays a big role but "the test", grades, and what you do with your time play a bigger role.

 

[mcat_study]

please, allow me to be selfish for a minute

Schools like Drexel, RFU, NYMC are med schools. They'r probably even good med schools, since I don't think there are bad ones in the US.

But schools like Harvard, JHU, Penn.....they're not just schools. They are what we dream about. They are what the world sees as leaders of medicine. They are a lot more than just schools. To equate them to other "medical schools" is to neglect their position in our society.

And to be able to attend such a school....no matter what you do afterwards, you will always be a graduate of HMS/JHU/Penn. No matter what kind of shyt life throws at you, you were once one of the elite, one of the best out there.

thinking that going to these medschools makes u elite? ha very interesting
the present dean of cornell med (elite, maybe?) did not go to a top tier med, and so many other accomplished med people.

i disagree completely.

 

[astrife]

I'm glad you think one of the schools I am interested in is PROBABLY a good school, I feel much much better now 🙄

This is a forum. People are not going to sugar coat their objective responses to make people feel better about the schools they want to attend.

 

[Mr. Tee]

My goodness this is the funniest thread I've seen in a while.

 

[el.harpo]

Kinda goes along with that one joke: "So what do you call a med student who graduates last in his class...? A doctor"

I guess you could use it in this situation: "So what do you call a med student who graduated from a bottom teir med school...? A doctor"

And besides, the great destroyer of specialty dreams in med school is the USMLE (sp?) right? Just the same as the MCAT is for undergrad. School name plays a big role but "the test", grades, and what you do with your time play a bigger role.

well put. not all great doctors went to one institution and im going to go out on a limb and say that all institutions have produced a few good doctors. a large part of being a great doctor comes from having an inner drive.

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

This is a forum. People are not going to sugar coat their objective responses to make people feel better about the schools they want to attend.

This is a forum? Really? I would have never known, thanks!

No, sugar coating things is not necessary, but people usually don't include the pronoun "WE" when they express their opnions. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but I for one do not necessarily dream of going to Harvard/Penn/whatever just because they are "elite". Geno's post implies that we all dream of going to Harvard over schools like the ones he listed, and I don't think that's true at all

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Kinda goes along with that one joke: "So what do you call a med student who graduates last in his class...? A doctor"

I guess you could use it in this situation: "So what do you call a med student who graduated from a bottom teir med school...? A doctor"

Have you heard the rest of that joke? It goes:

"What do you call a med student who graduated last in his class?"
"A Doctor."

"What do doctors call a med student who graduated last in his class?"
"A Pathologist."

 

[DrBowtie]

Have you heard the rest of that joke? It goes:

"What do you call a med student who graduated last in his class?"
"A Doctor."

"What do doctors call a med student who graduated last in his class?"
"A Pathologist."

I've always heard FP.

 

[psipsina]

For me picking my med school came down to the gut feeling at the interview of weather or not I would be truely happy there. I interviewed at a top 5 that I was in love with when I flew there and could care less about once I left. For another person, it would have been a perfect fit, but it wasn't right for me. Rankings are largely based on things that won't affect the quality of education in any way other than to have a prestigious name on your degree (which if you want to do academic or research would be a boon). If you are into research of course the rankings matter, because the number one aspect of the rankings is based on research dollars. I ended up at my state school which isn't even ranked and is pretty unknown out of the state because they don't take out of state residents. I am only a few weeks into this but I love it and am very proud of myself for looking past some prestigous names and picking the place that is right for me. I already have opportunities for amazing exposure to patient experiences thru the charity system (which is still alive, just not all in one building anymore), access to technology like patient simulators and heart sound simulators, and will get to practice tons of clinical procedures (lumbar punctures, central lines, IVs, suturing, intubation etc) this year that many other schools don't do until the first clinical year or later. Anyway, this school that isn't ranked or nationally reknown is known by residency directors to produce great clinicians, and thats what I want to be. If those big name schools are right for your goals, then rock on, but don't assume that the big names are the best choice for everyone and that everyone who doesn't end up there couldn't have gone if they wanted to.

 

[Gut Shot]

I recall a phone conversation I had with one of my older brothers while he was in medical school (WUSTL Class of '93). I asked him what his classmates were like and he replied "Jesus Christ, you wouldn't believe some of the clowns they let in this place." One guy started knitting during orientation.

 

[tacrum43]

Geez, it's gettin' all elitist up in this piece. 😱

I agree with the OP. Any accredited U.S. school will provide a quality education. That's the point of accreditation. Furthermore, it is an honor to be admitted to any school. I mean, half the people who apply don't make it every year, and those are all pretty smart people already if they've completed college. Plus, going to Harvard in no way means you'll be a better doctor than someone who went to Rosalind Franklin (which, by the way, was only in accreditation trouble for financial reasons, not for a lacking medical education).

And OP, don't let the elitists beat down your idealism. It's good to have a good bit of that stocked up before enter med school and residency, not to mention a commitment to actually doing what the medical profession exists to do: care for patients! (And yes I know, research helps patients too). After all, it's been proven, optimists live longer and are happier. They probably make better doctors too. 😛

 

[notdeadyet]

No matter what kind of shyt life throws at you, you were once one of the elite, one of the best out there.

No, it means you once attended one of the best medical schools. If I go to a physician and see a degree on the wall from Harvard, I assume that the doctor had a great MCAT and GPA at one point. I wouldn't make any assumptions that s/he was a better physician than one from an unranked med school.

When you're in college, what college you attend seems awfully important in the grand scheme of things, but a few years after graduating you and no one else much cares. The value of a degree from a top med school is any and all doors it kicks open to allow you to do what you want. But the status of actually attending the school? <shrug>

 

[gildas]

Have you heard the rest of that joke? It goes:

"What do you call a med student who graduated last in his class?"
"A Doctor."

"What do doctors call a med student who graduated last in his class?"
"A Pathologist."

Why do people make such ignorant jokes and comments? Last time i checked pathologists are the ones making diagnosis on Cancers and other life threatning diseases. Being a medical technologist, i can tell you that differentiating between different stages of human cells is not an easy stuff. now differentiating normal cells from cancerous cells, that is a b***.

 

[cubbbie]

If I go to a physician and see a degree on the wall from Harvard, I assume that the doctor had a great MCAT and GPA at one point. I wouldn't make any assumptions that s/he was a better physician than one from an unranked med school.

Really? Man, I definitely factor what med school the people went to when I'm looking for a doctor myself. And I hate that I do that, because I know I, myself, will likely not get into one of those med schools where I can put my diploma on the wall and look impressive.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

In the end, you are as good as YOU are.

If someone is admitted to a top-tier school (Harvard, JHU, U. of Washington, etc.) then that obviously means that person was a very, very good premed student. This is a fact of life, no one is here to refute that. However, you cannot simply assume that those people are better *medical students*. You cannot assume that those people will be better *doctors* in the future. That association is not set in stone. The ONLY THING that you can know for sure about someone at top-tier school is that they were a very, very good premed student.

That said,

Students at "low-tier" schools were also good pre-med students. Maybe not as academically good as those who go on to Harvard, but still pretty damn good to get into a US allopathic medical school. Whatever the reasons for being rejected at other schools, these students are still highly qualified and are just as likely to be good medical students or good doctors in the future.

In the end, it's not the school you go to that determines how good of a medical student or how good of a doctor you will be. It's you and you alone. Please stop associating "tiered" medical schools with this concept. The only thing that a "top medical school" tells you is that the students there were exceptional premeds. Those same students *could* actually be mediocre doctors, or struggling med students. Anything *could* be the case. The point is, most people who make assumptions based on elitist associations of school reputation are just making jackasses of themselves in the end.