I would greatly appreciate some advice :)

[Marzipan01]

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I know there are a lot of wonderful posts on this forum and I have been reading through a lot of them throughout the course of this past year. There is so much wonderful advice flying around here I was hoping that someone might be able to help me out.
So I first started out as a transfer student to a big name school and the class sizes were huge and my major was really tough. My GPA went down from a 3.9 to a 3.0 cumulative and I freaked out (being young and without a support network to coach me through it). I ran out of money and went to work before finishing my degree. I took classes on the side constantly because I like to learn but not to get anywhere in particular thinking that all hope of ever getting into medical school or doing research was completely lost.
So now I have all these credits. Some of which I failed because of silly reasons--working too much, stress, family commitments, bad reactions to prescribed medications, etc. And I decided to go back to school to get my degree and I realized there might be a chance, if I get a second degree and re-take classes to bring my cumulative GPA up from a 2.6 to a 3.4. It will be two years starting next fall and by the end of it, I would have degrees in Microbiology and Chemistry with 7+ years research experience, 3+ years patient care (CNA and taking care of my sister), and hopefully by then I will have published some of my research.
My concern is that because I failed classes and got a couple D's, if I re-take them my school replaces the grade with the second time you take the class which factors into the GPA but medical schools can still see them as flunked/D the first time. It looks horrible. Furthermore, the medical schools in my state are ultra competitive--a 3.7 is the average GPA of matriculates. Should I pursue a master's before I apply in addition to re-taking my classes/getting my second degree in Chemistry?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It doesn't matter what your school does for classes, AMCAS will average the two grades, not replace them. Now DO programs do grade replacement and are your best bet. Don't even worry about MD.

 

[Marzipan01]

It doesn't matter what your school does for classes, AMCAS will average the two grades, not replace them. Now DO programs do grade replacement and are your best bet. Don't even worry about MD.

Thanks for the reply I will look into that! 🙂

 

[haaaaaaaaaaveyoumetted]

I would definitely recommend DO but it sounds like you're getting yourself back on track so congrats! How did you do in prereqs? are any of the courses you're taking re-takes?

 

[Marzipan01]

I would definitely recommend DO but it sounds like you're getting yourself back on track so congrats! How did you do in prereqs? are any of the courses you're taking re-takes?

Thanks!

In my pre-med pre-reqs I have a 3.28. I would be retaking organic chem second semester (got a "C") and the labs associated with organic chemistry. My problem with organic chemistry was that I took it at a big name school and tried taking the lab (2 credits in one semester = 8 hours lab time a week) when I was working 70+ hours a week third shift and it wasn't that it was difficult but that I freaked out because students were blowing things up (literal explosions) and I was really sensitive to this because of my work load (I had to work 11 hour shifts, was very very tired, didn't want to be ill and was easily upset by improper lab techniques in general).

What I am thinking right now is clean up my undergraduate GPA while getting my second degree in Chemistry and apply for a master's program at the medical school I want to go to in my state. I have fantastic lab skills and have great references on this matter (and like I said above hope to get published). So I will try to prove myself to an MD/PhD (I know a few at the school in question and know a lot of researchers who I like a lot and know what I went through in undergrad) and see if they can vouch for me and apply MD and DO and see where I get in. I actually prefer this way anyway because I like research but reading about DO's really helped. It's nice to see there are other options. Granted, DO's are still looked down on but for what I want to do (psychiatry or general practice) it isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thanks!

In my pre-med pre-reqs I have a 3.28. I would be retaking organic chem second semester (got a "C") and the labs associated with organic chemistry. My problem with organic chemistry was that I took it at a big name school and tried taking the lab (2 credits in one semester = 8 hours lab time a week) when I was working 70+ hours a week third shift and it wasn't that it was difficult but that I freaked out because students were blowing things up (literal explosions) and I was really sensitive to this because of my work load (I had to work 11 hour shifts, was very very tired, didn't want to be ill and was easily upset by improper lab techniques in general).

What I am thinking right now is clean up my undergraduate GPA while getting my second degree in Chemistry and apply for a master's program at the medical school I want to go to in my state. I have fantastic lab skills and have great references on this matter (and like I said above hope to get published). So I will try to prove myself to an MD/PhD (I know a few at the school in question and know a lot of researchers who I like a lot and know what I went through in undergrad) and see if they can vouch for me and apply MD and DO and see where I get in. I actually prefer this way anyway because I like research but reading about DO's really helped. It's nice to see there are other options. Granted, DO's are still looked down on but for what I want to do (psychiatry or general practice) it isn't the worst thing in the world.

I suggest you do more research into this career. I'm not sure you understand the path. Calculate your GPAs without grade replacement because that is how they will be calculated. Also read more about DOs from more knowledgeable sources than stuff pre-meds write. With your GPAs I can say that MD/PH.D. Most likely isn't happening. One step at a time, you're getting ahead of yourself.

 

[Marzipan01]

I suggest you do more research into this career. I'm not sure you understand the path. Calculate your GPAs without grade replacement because that is how they will be calculated. Also read more about DOs from more knowledgeable sources than stuff pre-meds write. With your GPAs I can say that MD/PH.D. Most likely isn't happening. One step at a time, you're getting ahead of yourself.

Yeah, you're right otherwise my nursing GPA is like a 3.7. I might just do that for a while. If I get a BSN and a master's degree it will be a long haul to crawl out of this hole but after averaging the GPA like you said, I might be able to get my cumulative up to a 3.1. Then if I rock the MCAT and show what I am capable of, I might get into a DO, MD, or DNP school. If I don't, then that's okay, too. At least I can still help people.

And I wasn't suggesting I could get into an md/phd that's ridiculous. I was fantasizing about getting a master's then a phd and then applying to medical school if I still wanted it. Grad programs are easier to get into--well some of them anyway. lol.

 

[doc05]

Yeah, you're right otherwise my nursing GPA is like a 3.7. I might just do that for a while. If I get a BSN and a master's degree it will be a long haul to crawl out of this hole but after averaging the GPA like you said, I might be able to get my cumulative up to a 3.1. Then if I rock the MCAT and show what I am capable of, I might get into a DO, MD, or DNP school. If I don't, then that's okay, too. At least I can still help people.

And I wasn't suggesting I could get into an md/phd that's ridiculous. I was fantasizing about getting a master's then a phd and then applying to medical school if I still wanted it. Grad programs are easier to get into--well some of them anyway. lol.

Your chances are slim and the road ahead is long and difficult. Your best bet is a degree that has real-world application, and then try for a PA program. The MD/DO route isn't worth it.

 

[Marzipan01]

Your chances are slim and the road ahead is long and difficult. Your best bet is a degree that has real-world application, and then try for a PA program. The MD/DO route isn't worth it.

Why PA instead of nursing? And by degree with real world application do you mean like business or engineering or something? I have heard that PA schools are pretty competitive, too.

 

[doc05]

Why PA instead of nursing? And by degree with real world application do you mean like business or engineering or something? I have heard that PA schools are pretty competitive, too.

yes. a nursing degree is a bad idea, because when you burn out, you won't have any real world skills.

 

[Marzipan01]

yes. a nursing degree is a bad idea, because when you burn out, you won't have any real world skills.

I have heard of nurses working as nursing educators until they are in their 70's. Some of the nursing teachers at my school are pretty ancient. I guess when you are tired of rushing around from patient to patient, you get up in front of the classroom. And it only takes a master's to teach nursing. DNP is basically the same as a PA if not more independent when you take into consideration nurses who specialize in midwifery or anesthesiology. For every kind of medical specialty there is a nursing specialty that stands behind it. So I guess I am unclear what you mean by "burn out" because if you are tired of working with patients you can go into education or work for an insurance company or something. There are also nurses who work as consultants, too. I am also unclear what you mean by real world skills. Like do you think I should become a plumber? They make good money and I have thought about it. It's a lot cheaper than anything else but you don't make the big bucks for four years out.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Wait, I'm confused. What's your cumulative GPA? (Including every college class you've ever taken, F's and D's and all)

I probably wouldn't do a Master's but that's just me. It sounds like you've been in school for a pretty long time and I'm not sure if even acing a Master's would make up for the low grades you've gotten in the past. Med schools may be willing to overlook this but you may still end up with a low GPA. I would strongly consider DO with grade replacement, if you truly want to be a doctor (and not a plumber...).

NP or PA are fine options as well but very different in terms of the work you'll actually be doing. I would do some shadowing to decide which seems like a good fit. There's one thing for sure, if you do decide to apply MD/DO, schools will want to see that you're absolutely certain that you want to be a doctor, not a nurse or a PA or anything else.

 

[Marzipan01]

Wait, I'm confused. What's your cumulative GPA? (Including every college class you've ever taken, F's and D's and all)

I probably wouldn't do a Master's but that's just me. It sounds like you've been in school for a pretty long time and I'm not sure if even acing a Master's would make up for the low grades you've gotten in the past. Med schools may be willing to overlook this but you may still end up with a low GPA. I would strongly consider DO with grade replacement, if you truly want to be a doctor (and not a plumber...).

NP or PA are fine options as well but very different in terms of the work you'll actually be doing. I would do some shadowing to decide which seems like a good fit. There's one thing for sure, if you do decide to apply MD/DO, schools will want to see that you're absolutely certain that you want to be a doctor, not a nurse or a PA or anything else.

Thank you for your post. 🙂 Cumulative including everything is a 2.6 that's with every single horrible grade I have ever had. In my pre-med classes alone it's a 3.28. If I get grade replacement like what you're saying for D.O., I could bring my cumulative up to a 3.4 in a year and my pre-med pre-reqs up higher than that.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Granted, DO's are still looked down on but for what I want to do (psychiatry or general practice) it isn't the worst thing in the world.

Also, I don't know where you got the idea that DOs are looked down upon. They function exactly the same as MDs. Same jobs, same specialties. DO training tends to have more of a focus on primary care but if you wanted to specialize, you could. The only major difference in training is that DO schools teach OMM. Otherwise, the training is the same. You'd still need to take the MCAT.

According to AACOM, the average cumulative GPA for DO matriculants entering in 2014 was ~3.5. (https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2014_Mat.pdf?sfvrsn=12) Compared to 3.7 for MD matriculants. (https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstablea16.pdf)

Do some research! Then do some shadowing!

 

[Marzipan01]

Also, I don't know where you got the idea that DOs are looked down upon. They function exactly the same as MDs. Same jobs, same specialties. DO training tends to have more of a focus on primary care but if you wanted to specialize, you could. The only major difference in training is that DO schools teach OMM. Otherwise, the training is the same. You'd still need to take the MCAT.

According to AACOM, the average cumulative GPA for DO matriculants entering in 2014 was ~3.5. (https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2014_Mat.pdf?sfvrsn=12) Compared to 3.7 for MD matriculants. (https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstablea16.pdf)

Do some research! Then do some shadowing!

Thanks! That really helped a lot! 🙂

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Don't listen to the person talking about nurses, they have no clue what they are talking about. You have a couple of options:

1- just finish the BSN and be a nurse, this is a respectable decision that will provide a good lifestyle and a decent salary depending on your state. Nothing wrong with this.

2- finish the BSN and then apply to NP programs. With a 3.7BSN GPA you should be able to get one. Also respectable and will provide good pay and lifestyle

3- retake all C/D/F courses, volunteer, shadow, take the MCAT and score 505+, and get some good LORs. Then apply to DO programs. This will be the longest road by far and it is up to you to decide if it is worth it. In the end only you can decide what is best for you.

I don't recommend a masters (unless it is an NP) as there really isn't any point. If you want to be a professor and do research then work your butt off and try to get a PH.D. in the field you want and do that.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

yes. a nursing degree is a bad idea, because when you burn out, you won't have any real world skills.

This literally is the dumbest thing I've read today...

 

[Marzipan01]

Don't listen to the person talking about nurses, they have no clue what they are talking about. You have a couple of options:

1- just finish the BSN and be a nurse, this is a respectable decision that will provide a good lifestyle and a decent salary depending on your state. Nothing wrong with this.

2- finish the BSN and then apply to NP programs. With a 3.7BSN GPA you should be able to get one. Also respectable and will provide good pay and lifestyle

3- retake all C/D/F courses, volunteer, shadow, take the MCAT and score 505+, and get some good LORs. Then apply to DO programs. This will be the longest road by far and it is up to you to decide if it is worth it. In the end only you can decide what is best for you.

I don't recommend a masters (unless it is an NP) as there really isn't any point. If you want to be a professor and do research then work your butt off and try to get a PH.D. in the field you want and do that.

You are exactly right. Thank you for your advice. I can not express how much I appreciated it. 🙂

 

[doc05]

I have heard of nurses working as nursing educators until they are in their 70's. Some of the nursing teachers at my school are pretty ancient. I guess when you are tired of rushing around from patient to patient, you get up in front of the classroom. And it only takes a master's to teach nursing. DNP is basically the same as a PA if not more independent when you take into consideration nurses who specialize in midwifery or anesthesiology. For every kind of medical specialty there is a nursing specialty that stands behind it. So I guess I am unclear what you mean by "burn out" because if you are tired of working with patients you can go into education or work for an insurance company or something. There are also nurses who work as consultants, too. I am also unclear what you mean by real world skills. Like do you think I should become a plumber? They make good money and I have thought about it. It's a lot cheaper than anything else but you don't make the big bucks for four years out.

As for "real world" skills, I mean something that could be useful in the very likely case you don't get into medical school. Nothing wrong with nursing per se, but it's a very difficult job and there is a high burn out rate; the specialized training doesn't provide broadly applicable skills (like for the business world).

 

[Marzipan01]

As for "real world" skills, I mean something that could be useful in the very likely case you don't get into medical school. Nothing wrong with nursing per se, but it's a very difficult job and there is a high burn out rate; the specialized training doesn't provide broadly applicable skills (like for the business world).

Thanks. I will think more on this.

 

[Marzipan01]

As for "real world" skills, I mean something that could be useful in the very likely case you don't get into medical school. Nothing wrong with nursing per se, but it's a very difficult job and there is a high burn out rate; the specialized training doesn't provide broadly applicable skills (like for the business world).

Okay, I have thought about it. And I think you're right. I should think about plan B and figure out what I really want to do. I really like environmental health and a professor recommended I go that route instead of nursing, too, for the reasons you are stating above. Well, those reasons and the fact that the research project I chose to do is associated with developing techniques in bioremediation. They say every day is earth day at the EPA!