I would like to hear some opinions on RUSVM?

Discussion in 'Pre-Veterinary' started by landis792, 09.27.14.

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  1. landis792

    landis792 2+ Year Member

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    I attended a seminar this morning given by staff from RUVSM and on the whole I would say it seemed positive. However, vets I have worked for, both in ER and Zoo did not seem to be shy about criticizing the school. Aside from elitism, is there any basis for their opinions? Furthermore, if I graduated from Ross could I anticipate having a more difficult time gaining employment, assuming my grades were high? Do you believe there are any real or perceived bias against graduates from the school?
     
    Last edited: 09.27.14
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  3. orca2011

    orca2011 PennWe c/o 2016!!! 5+ Year Member

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    There are many threads on this topic, so if you search, you'll likely find some answers.

    Short answer, no, you shouldn't have issues getting a job. Much of the stigma against the Caribbean schools has died down, so you shouldn't really face any issues. I've worked with a few Ross vets and I've liked them a lot. Oh, and GPA shouldn't play a role in you getting job. In fact, it's heavily advised that you don't put it on a resume (thank god for that for me).
     
  4. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    I've heard both praise and criticism of the school. The whole stigma around the schools is because (I could have this wrong, I haven't looked into them that heavily) they let in 3 classes of ~100 students each year. So it comes off as letting in the kids who couldn't get into American vet schools. I can't say that their admissions standards are equivalent to American schools, because an actual speaker from one of them (can't remember which) literally said "We will give you a chance when the other schools won't." Interpret that as you will. It sounds inspiring, but when you think about it, what was she actually saying in that quote?

    I have only met one vet who has worked with an island graduate and she said that particular student was excellent, but possibly only because the student had tons of experience in equine med prior to starting vet school.

    Plus, I think the idea of going to a veterinary school that doesn't even have a veterinary clinic rubs a lot of people the wrong way. You probably miss out on a lot of opportunities that you'd get in other schools.

    If you end up at an island school it is what you make of it. Be one of those students who proves the stigma is wrong.
     
  5. allygator13

    allygator13 SGU c/o 2018! 2+ Year Member

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    As a current first term SGU student, we have a small animal clinic and a large animal farm here at the school, and we actually get more hands on experience than most students at US schools in our first three years. We've already had two labs learning how to perform physical exams on small animals, and we'll move to horses and cows later this semester. So I disagree with pinkpuppy's idea that we have less opportunities to get hands on experience than students at state schools.
     
  6. allygator13

    allygator13 SGU c/o 2018! 2+ Year Member

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    Obviously can't speak about Ross though. Also SGU only brings in new classes in spring and fall, we don't bring in classes three times a year as Ross does.
     
  7. allieh8607

    allieh8607 RUSVM c/o 2017 2+ Year Member

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    Except we do have a veterinary clinic on campus.


    OP- Feel free to PM me if you have specific information you want answered! I may be a bit biased towards Ross but I can at least give you accurate information.
     
  8. Rwwilliams

    Rwwilliams 2+ Year Member

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    I spoke to several of their faculty about that very quote. The response I got was that they're willing to look beyond a bad semester, bad year, bad degree and give you a chance. I didn't do poorly in undergrad by any means, but I've absolutely thrived in vet school and RUSVM is a school that hopes to procure those kinds of students. Unfortunately, there are students who couldn't cope in undergrad and they can't cope in vet school and RUSVM is not shy about telling you how demanding their program is. Just because they give you a chance doesn't mean that the school is any easier.
     
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  9. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    Yeah but the rest of the island schools do not, if I am informed correctly. Like I said, I haven't heavily researched them, but the fact that some of the island schools have to send their students elsewhere for clinicals bothers some people. Never did I say anything specifically about Ross, relax o_O. Ross/SGU aren't the only island schools, guys.
    Is it St. Matthews that doesn't have a hospital? I believe they expect their students to connect with local veterinarians for the hands-on stuff until they ship out for clinicals.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that quote. I'm not saying their PROGRAM would be easier...they are accredited after all. I was just explaining part of the reason why the stigma exists and the belief of most people who hold that stigma.

    Also why I mentioned the possible lack of experience. That is what some practicing vets, not all, are thinking of island students today.
     
  10. allygator13

    allygator13 SGU c/o 2018! 2+ Year Member

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    Just answered this above in this thread, but we have a small animal clinic and a large animal facility here at SGU. Know nothing about St. Matthew's though.
     
  11. allieh8607

    allieh8607 RUSVM c/o 2017 2+ Year Member

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    The original poster was specifically asking about Ross so I'm not really sure why you needed to bring up other island schools...I think it was safe of me to assume you were talking about Ross given the original post. My bad. If you haven't researched the schools though, why are you giving out information? That's how the stigmas are perpetuated...by incorrect information being passed around. Yes, even though we have a teaching hospital we still do our clinical year in the states. But that doesn't mean we don't have a fully functional teaching hospital on campus and plenty of hands on experience provided to us before we leave. There are simply better facilities and better case loads at our stateside clinical affiliates.

    I'm aware that Ross and SGU are not the only island schools lol
     
  12. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    Out of my own curiosity: is it a veterinary clinic or a teaching hospital?
     
  13. allieh8607

    allieh8607 RUSVM c/o 2017 2+ Year Member

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    It is an AAHA accredited veterinary clinic. When I first started here last year, it was always referred to as the VTH, but since then we've been asked to start referring to it as RVC (RUSVM Veterinary Clinic). Students do have rotations in there before we go on to clinics though, so I'm not really sure where the line between vet clinic and teaching hospital is drawn. Stupid question, but are there certain qualifications that would make something a teaching hospital rather than a vet clinic with general practitioners and students working side by side?
     
  14. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    You seem to like to post a lot this year about things you don't understand fully. Not only that, but you are also assuming why a stigma exists, even though I can tell you from the many, many vets I have worked with that none of them even mention what you have stated on here about any of the island schools. Not only that, but you are severely misinformed about the island schools and how they work. First, the stigma as you claim is because they accept three classes of students a year and I can tell you honestly I have never heard of a vet anywhere discuss how many students a vet school takes in, that seems to be more an annoyance among those in vet school and maybe a few younger vets, but the younger vets seem to be very aware that training at Ross is just as good as training in the US, so this becomes a non-issue (if you have heard otherwise, then fine, but I have never heard of this and I have worked with around 30 or so different vets). Then you say the stigma is because there is no teaching hospital... of which two people have proved you wrong on that. St. Matthews does NOT accept large amounts of students... their class sizes are only a maximum of 30 for each incoming class, so even if they accepted 4 different groups of students each year, they would still equal most US schools in student numbers. Also, St. Matthews has a Clinical Teaching facility that allows for hands on experience with surgery, medicine and clinical skills. I don't know if that is considered a "hospital" but they do get the hands on training you were saying isn't available at the island schools. You can read about that here: http://aavmc.org/stmatthews.aspx

    The only thing about St. Matthew's is that it is not accredited. So students have to take PAVE and ECFVG.

    Please, do some research before posting to people with questions. Or don't post if you don't know what you are talking about.
     
  15. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    Ah, okay; I assume this is what pinkpuppy was referring to and she actually meant "teaching hospital" instead of "clinic".

    Honestly, I don't know what constitutes a teaching hospital vs. a veterinary clinic specifically. My thoughts are that VTHs have clinicians that are experienced with teaching and practice (all of our clinicians we've seen in class at some point over our three classroom years) and not just general practitioners. Almost all of them are board certified too - again, don't know how it is for your clinicians.

    I don't know how the RVC handles their students on pre-clinical rotations, but I know that at our hospital, students are heavily, heavily involved with the problem solving aspect. We do all PEs, diagnostic tests, interpretation, treatment plans, implement plans, communicate with owners, etc. Sure, there's a clinician overseeing us, but I was frankly surprised at just how much autonomy we are allowed, especially in the small animal hospital. (I feel like I've really gained confidence in my abilities, though, and I haven't seen anyone allowed to do anything harmful or overly stupid.) Maybe the RVC is like that too? I'm not sure, but again, those would be my guesses.
     
  16. Escalla

    Escalla treading water 2+ Year Member

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    Does not having a teaching hospital seriously rub people the wrong way? I'm actually curious about it.
     
  17. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    The primary reason it rubs me the wrong way is that the AVMA first said you needed one to be accredited...and then accredited schools without one anyway.

    Otherwise, I don't really know enough to say that it is or is not a detriment to the students since the island schools send their students to do clinical rotations at schools with teaching hospitals. I was very rarely even in the teaching hospital in my first three years (although the school is implementing requirements that bring the second and third years down to help out with ICU shifts, etc, which I think is great). I like the idea that our professors are teaching us in the classroom but also continuing to practice. Just my two cents, anyway.
     
  18. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    All the UK vet schools require students to gain experience in veterinary hospitals around the world during breaks. We weren't allowed in the teaching hospital during the first few years, unless there was some lab in there... which we had two labs in there... one to learn scrubbing/gloving/gowning the other to sit with a final year student and go through how to do a physical exam and obtain a history.

    And the only reason the AVMA started accrediting the schools without hospitals was because of Western's lawsuit.. of which I have more issues with than the island schools getting accredited by going through the process normally without suing.
     
  19. Escalla

    Escalla treading water 2+ Year Member

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    I understand with the whole Western accreditation thing. That was a mess.

    It's still a tad disappointing to hear though since we are all so proud of our program here (in Alberta) and very confident that a distributed teaching model has been working well for our graduates and clinicians (that continue in private practice part time). There are obviously draw backs on each side and it will vary from school to school.

    But maybe I should see if the school will discuss a comparison with me so I can be more informed on the details and better educate what we do (here, at least).
     
  20. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    I have an issue with more schools being accredited period, foreign or domestic. (I know the AVMA says they can't not accredit schools that meet criteria, but in my opinion something needs to happen because it's making a bad situation worse. Obviously that's another conversation entirely.)

    @Escalla maybe it does work out just fine without a teaching hospital; I really have no experience other than my own and I don't feel strongly on the matter. The only major drawback I see is that schools without a teaching hospital must distribute their fourth years to other schools with teaching hospitals. I'm of the opinion that that model, if more and more schools without VTHs are accredited, has the potential to put a strain on the schools that accept students for fourth year clinics. It's effectively increasing those class sizes and it's possible that the number of clinicians and staff and the caseload of the particular school won't be able to support such class sizes. If there are enough students per rotation, it's possible that student skills begin to suffer as the cases and practical techniques have to be distributed amongst more students.

    It isn't something that's going to happen overnight, but I think it's a real possibility.
     
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  21. Escalla

    Escalla treading water 2+ Year Member

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    Well, I realize I'm operating largely within an exception here with a school that sends students to rotate in private practice, not another school's teaching hospital. But I can understand the frustration involved with more and more students from other places beginning to put a strain on the program eventually.

    I'm not sure what the latest schools are doing....whether it's farming them out to other schools or not.
     
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  22. StartingoverVet

    StartingoverVet Flight Instructor for hire Lifetime Donor 5+ Year Member

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    One point that you guys especially the OP miss about Ross at least is that although they let in students that could not have gotten in elsewhere in many cases, they fail a lot more students as well...at least they did in the part....so Ross is easy to get in but still a hard program, whereas most schools few students though it is hard to get in..

    That means that in the end, I would spy ay the quality of the grads is not all that different. Personally, I think the Ross grads having such a tough program makrpes them pretty good, at leas the ones I have met.
     
  23. Rwwilliams

    Rwwilliams 2+ Year Member

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    I touched on that somewhat, by mentioning that their students aren't bashful when talking about how difficult their program is but I didn't want to come right out and say it. Ross students have an incredibly hard time, and it's not because of some stigma that may or may not be present.
     
  24. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    My bad for explaining the reasoning behind the general stigma and not specifying "hospital" over "clinic."

    Not sure why someone is saying that I'm misinforming the OP about a stigma when in MY experience, the number of classes is a point of concern for the vets I have worked with. Why does it matter that the particular vets you have worked with didn't mention it?

    Second, it's awesome that you're telling me I'm uninformed when you did just say they don't have a teaching hospital at one of the schools. My bad for misreading the OP and not specifying what school I was referring to.

    Overall, explaining the general stigms seems to offend everyone. Which is good. Because never once did I say that the curriculum

    Edit: my phone cut off half of my post and I'm too hypoglycemic to remember any of it...
     
    Last edited: 09.28.14
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  25. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    There was a post on here a while ago about some vet schools kicking an island school student out at the drop of a hat during clinicals. I can't remember the exact reason, but it had something to do with the stigma from the school. There was a long blog post from the expelled student or something
     
  26. psilovethomas

    psilovethomas fading 5+ Year Member

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    I've experienced this, too, in my hometown- Washington DC. Many vets I've interacted with have shared their feelings on the RUSVM and SGU's class sizes, but fail to mention the increasing class sizes in the US....
     
  27. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    That is a good point, but I think the main concern is the number of classes with the similar class sizes seen in US schools. Simple math...300 students per year vs. 100, assuming each class is an even 100. It's probably too early to see the drastic effect this will all have, but I understand the job market isn't too great as it is.
     
  28. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    I didn't say they don't have a teaching hospital.... I said:

    "Clinical Teaching facility that allows for hands on experience with surgery, medicine and clinical skills. I don't know if that is considered a "hospital" but they do get the hands on training you were saying isn't available at the island schools."

    Whether that "teaching facility" is actually a hospital or not, I am not sure and can't comment on that further because I don't know. But your post stated exactly:


    which I have shown you isn't true.

    They might expect students to get with local vets for hands on stuff, but guess what.... so does every UK school and every school in the EU. As well as if you want really good hands on stuff in the US during the first few years, you have to seek it out yourself too.

    It is not really any different.

    As far as your experience with the issue with class sizes, I even said that is fine if you have heard that, but I have never heard of that from any vet. Just my experience. Not only that, but if they are picking on the island schools for class size, but the US schools are increasing class sizes at an alarming rate, so that is just a bit ridiculous in my mind. And even if they have that against the school... what does that have to do with the students? Do they think less of the students coming from the schools because there are more people there? After all the discussion is stigma about graduating students and not necessarily stigma about what the school is doing.

    Not only have you stated a few things about the schools that aren't accurate (ability to get hands on experience) and class sizes (St. Matthews is only 30 students), but you state yourself you haven't researched the schools a lot... so is it really bad for me to say, "hey, if you don't know what you are talking about, do some research first?"
     
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  29. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    It's my understanding that none of the Caribbean schools have a "true" veterinary teaching hospital, which is why they go to other schools for clinical rotations.
     
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  30. Rwwilliams

    Rwwilliams 2+ Year Member

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    http://www.stopdevry.net/ross.html This is probably what you're talking about and I really doubt that he was kicked out due to stigma about RUSVM. From reading the post, it sounds suspicious. He was pulled aside and told he was failing, but what did he do about it? Sounds like he did nothing except be surprised and express outrage when he was removed from the program. What would I do in that situation? I would approach faculty that could help point out where I'm going wrong and what I could do to fix it. I would put in more study time and try to find resources that helped me learn the best way I can. I would find students who are excelling and ask them for help.
    The guy at this site cites complaints against DeVry, but not specifically against the university. He says how upset he is that he took out all these loans and got nothing for it and that is not the university's fault. Just because you paid a lot of money does not mean you graduate with a DVM.
     
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  31. WhtsThFrequency

    WhtsThFrequency walk like a monkey, kick like a mule 10+ Year Member

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    That is the whiniest crock of one-sided **** I have ever read. Christ almighty.
     
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  32. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    This is probably true. But they do have the ability to get the same hands on experience that we get in the first 3 years. Then they go and do the same rotations we do... so what is the difference?

    I mean, I wish every school had a teaching hospital and that they weren't sending their students to other schools and making their rotations more crowded, but that is a completely different topic.
     
  33. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    Like I said, I don't know that there is a big difference, if any at all. I admitted I didn't even go to our VTH until rotations began. Many of my peers used the VTH to get experience, though, because we are also on a small island and there's limited veterinary clinics aside from the school to handle anyone who wants experience.

    I would be curious to know if most Ross students feel they have adequate time to get that extra experience, if they want it. For me personally, I wanted to focus on my classes the first three years and didn't feel I had much time to devote to gaining experience during the school year. I worked over summer break, but we get like four months which is plenty of time. With Ross' condensed approach - who wants to work at a clinic for the two weeks you have off between semesters? I guess if you need the experience badly enough, you get it, but that's kind of miserable (at least in my opinion).

    Edit to add: I don't want to come across as arguing that a teaching hospital is necessary and I certainly don't want to come across as hating the Caribbean schools or thinking their students aren't good enough because there is no teaching hospital.
     
  34. bunnity

    bunnity Penn 2014 5+ Year Member

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    I welcomed having the island students on our rotations. Not only did they become my friends, but it was wonderful to have people to lighten our crazy caseload.
     
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  35. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    Yeah, I don't disagree... I have said before that I would die if I only had 2 weeks off between semesters... I want at least that to just chill and destress from vet school.
     
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  36. WhtsThFrequency

    WhtsThFrequency walk like a monkey, kick like a mule 10+ Year Member

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    In the real world you don't get weeks off in between semesters ;)
     
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  37. allygator13

    allygator13 SGU c/o 2018! 2+ Year Member

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    I hate this fact haha
     
  38. WhtsThFrequency

    WhtsThFrequency walk like a monkey, kick like a mule 10+ Year Member

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    What I said was tongue in cheek, but I wanted to expand on that just for a bit...

    You absolutely need time to decompress. Once you're in a regular job, it actually becomes even MORE important even though it is harder to do. I am STILL kicking myself for not taking a vacation in between residency and fellowship.
     
  39. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    The professors here like to remind us a lot that we have had our last ever summer vacation... le sigh... :(
     
  40. StartingoverVet

    StartingoverVet Flight Instructor for hire Lifetime Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Ever is a long time. And not always true. Take it from me.
     
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  41. StartingoverVet

    StartingoverVet Flight Instructor for hire Lifetime Donor 5+ Year Member

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    But IRL, you aren't usually asked to remember, and then get tested on, a bunch of information you will never again need to recall off the top of your head.
    Just sayin!
     
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  42. Minnerbelle

    Minnerbelle Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    That is certainly a plus in places with high case loads. But I do wonder about the teaching hospitals with low case loads. I had some friends who went to do externships in a couple of schools near their hometowns and felt super bored waiting for cases to trickle in while twiddling their thumbs all day. If I were a student in that situation I would be really annoyed that the school is further adding extra students from island schools (school's already likely adding extra seats as is) to an already limited caseload. I also had a new grad from a school out of state apply to my job who lamented low caseloads and limited opportunities at her school.
     
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  43. Minnerbelle

    Minnerbelle Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    Has anyone felt like they lost some opportunities during their clinical year due to extra students from the island schools? Particularly the schools that absorb tons of these students, and also schools that may have lower caseloads to start?
     
  44. dyachei

    dyachei vet robot pirate zombie SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

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    I mean, there were certain rotations like that. But we got priority on filling the electives and they were added in afterwards.
     
  45. that redhead

    that redhead 5+ Year Member

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    Apparently our school does take island students, but I doubt anyone would want to go from a tropical island to a frozen one :laugh: Our small animal caseload is fine, but the large animal caseload is pretty slim. I definitely got to do some cool stuff in large animal med, but it was split between four students. I think even adding two more would have cramped out room to get some hands on experience for sure, and we were one of the busier rotations thus far.
     
  46. dirtanddog

    dirtanddog Penn c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    I'm just here to say that the teaching hospital I work for has lots of interns and doctors from many schools. One of the BEST doctors I have ever worked with actually came from Ross. She was not only incredibly kind, great with the animals and clients, but she took every single initiative to teach/explain everything she did when I first started working there, and she did the same for any other tech or assistant that ever had a question. She was great with the interns and never got overwhelmed on even the most difficult cases. When she left to go into GP, I was very much bummed. She still does per-diems (or technically ...per noctems? since it's overnight? haha) and every time I work with her I'm ecstatic. So when I applied this year, I was not hesitant at all about applying to Ross because I have worked with someone so great, coming out of that school.
     
    allygator13 likes this.

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