I would love some advice.

[CrepesofWrath]

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I didn't do so well this application cycle and will be reapplying in either 2009 or 2010.

Wash U Class of 2006, 23 years old, M, Asian American
3.07 Sci, 3.32 Cum, 37 P (10PS 14V 13BS), taken August 2004.
Psych major, Bio minor, English minor
Texas resident

Grew up in Saudi Arabia (dad works for an oil company)
Bad sophomore year due to stress relating to terrorist attacks on hometown (3 attempts)
GPA since sophomore year = 3.65
Funded and conducted water treatment study in rural Philippine town
3 years on Relay for Life raising funds for cancer research
1 year shadowing in ER at level 1 trauma center
1 year volunteering as research assistant in pediatric ER
1 year on Wash U academic integrity committee, required confirmation by student government
Sorry to say, no language ability other than English

Since graduation (past two years), working at Wash U School of Medicine as a research technician for a well-known Alzheimer's researcher, 7th author on two papers (multisite international study).

I will be taking postbac classes a la carte at Wash U's University College (night classes) in the upcoming year. 24 credits of upper level science (2 summers and 2 semesters, 6 credits each), assuming 4.0, will give me a BCPM 3.35, cum 3.4. I am considering either applying then (2009) or going for a master's degree and applying in 2010.

What do you think?

 

[fireflygirl]

I would say that do well in your post bac classes and skip out on the master's degree. I am not sure how the master's is going to be able to help you and from what I have read on SDN, it often times is a huge drain on the wallet and helps very little in the application process.

On the other hand, I would also cast a wide net whenever you do apply and go for both the MD and DO schools. Even with the 4.0, and that's assuming that you do well in your post-bac, your BCPM is going to be on the low side for allo schools. DO schools may be more forgiving with the GPA. And since you have extenuating circumstances for your GPA, I would mention them in the PS. It may help you with some schools.

Also, your MCAT scores will expire by the time you apply so I would start considering when you would like to take them again. Otherwise I think your ECs are great and if you can stay in touch with some form of research and/or volunteering while you go through the post-bac, your application will be even more strengthened.

 

[177983]

I would actually disagree with FireFlyGirl on grad school finances. I got a master's degree in statistics and had everything paid for. The school paid my tuition and gave me a stipend of ~$22,000 a year. So, you're not making bank, but it's certainly livable.

That said, I don't know that a master's will help that much. Sure, a graduate degree is maybe kind impressive, but I had one MD tell me that graduate GPA's don't mean much because of grade inflation at the graduate level. I think that's pretty true from my experience. My A- would've been a B in undergrad. Some people pulled out B-'s and a C even in a class where they admitted at the end of the semester they didn't learn a single thing. So, think hard about the master's. It's a commitment.

 

[CrepesofWrath]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I think the best thing for me is to continue at my research position while taking science classes and volunteering on the side. Next summer (2009), I'll reapply while going for an SMP, and continually update adcoms after exam periods. Hopefully, this will show them that I'm up to the task while also allowing me to update my LORs and ECs.

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[RxnMan]

I would actually disagree with FireFlyGirl on grad school finances. I got a master's degree in statistics and had everything paid for. The school paid my tuition and gave me a stipend of ~$22,000 a year. So, you're not making bank, but it's certainly livable.

That said, I don't know that a master's will help that much. Sure, a graduate degree is maybe kind impressive, but I had one MD tell me that graduate GPA's don't mean much because of grade inflation at the graduate level. I think that's pretty true from my experience. My A- would've been a B in undergrad. Some people pulled out B-'s and a C even in a class where they admitted at the end of the semester they didn't learn a single thing. So, think hard about the master's. It's a commitment.

I pretty much agree with this post. Master's in science are easier to do in that you will generally get tuition and a stipend because you'll be working as a TA or RA. How much do they help? That's a bit different question. I don't think it is as good as going back and doing bachelor's classes. The grad GPA doesn't get rolled into the ugrad GPA. Grade inflation is an issue in that most folks who get to grad school generally are already of high caliber and so you can argue that most will get good grades anyways. C's are the equivalent of failing a class, and if you get D's, well, you usually aren't a grad student after that!

SMPs you have to pay tuition for, I believe, so take an extra $30-50k of student loans into consideration when making a decision.

 

[littlealex]

I think entering in a formal Postbac/SMP program will help you the most. Your strong MCAT shows that you're quick enough on your feet, but you lack the academic record to show you can handle a heavy course load and succeed.

You have some interesting experiences, but you lack a consistent volunteering position. Find something simple that takes maybe just 3-4 hours a week. Work at a homeless shelter, hospital, anything. Demonstrate your altruism.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Consider talking to a decent pre-med advisor, too. Go over your application, and your list of schools. See if you can get some really nice new letters of recommendation from whatever program you end up involved in now.

One person I know applied like 4 times, and it wasn't until he had a truly broad list of schools (including DO schools) that he got lots of interviews & acceptances, finally.

 

[enigma85]

Which schools did you apply to?

Have you considered DO or podiatry? You are a sure bet for those programs and you would save the hassle of getting a SMP or other grad program.

 

[CrepesofWrath]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

My list of schools was not all that broad, only 18 schools (12 OOS, 6 in TX). I was limited by my MCAT score, since it is rather old (summer 2004).

TCOM has a great SMP, so I'm thinking about doing that. The price tag isn't too unreasonable, and cost of living in Ft. Worth is also fine. I'm giving myself two years (applying 2009), so that's enough time to update my MCAT, keep up my ECs, generate some good LORs and do the SMP. It's like a whole new application...😉

 

[spreebee]

I didn't do so well this application cycle and will be reapplying in either 2009 or 2010.

Wash U Class of 2006, 23 years old, M, Asian American
3.07 Sci, 3.32 Cum, 37 P (10PS 14V 13BS), taken August 2004.
Psych major, Bio minor, English minor
Texas resident

Grew up in Saudi Arabia (dad works for an oil company)
Bad sophomore year due to stress relating to terrorist attacks on hometown (3 attempts)
GPA since sophomore year = 3.65
Funded and conducted water treatment study in rural Philippine town
3 years on Relay for Life raising funds for cancer research
1 year shadowing in ER at level 1 trauma center
1 year volunteering as research assistant in pediatric ER
1 year on Wash U academic integrity committee, required confirmation by student government
Sorry to say, no language ability other than English

Since graduation (past two years), working at Wash U School of Medicine as a research technician for a well-known Alzheimer's researcher, 7th author on two papers (multisite international study).

I will be taking postbac classes a la carte at Wash U's University College (night classes) in the upcoming year. 24 credits of upper level science (2 summers and 2 semesters, 6 credits each), assuming 4.0, will give me a BCPM 3.35, cum 3.4. I am considering either applying then (2009) or going for a master's degree and applying in 2010.

What do you think?

If you feel you going to screw up the MCAT, go Caribbean....

 

[CrepesofWrath]

If you feel you going to screw up the MCAT, go Caribbean....

Spreebee,

Thanks for the reply, but with all respect, I feel that "going Caribbean" is a mistake. I work at Wash U Med School, and the Dean of the med school (not the dean of admissions) tells me that such schools are a liability when applying for residency. Not only that, but there have been allegations of inadequate quality of education and USMLE score inflation via "weeding out" of a large portion of the student body prior to the test. In the opinions of people who would know, it's just a mistake.

With regards to the MCAT, who knows? I did fairly well the first time - I'm not ready to give up just yet. 🙂

 

[spreebee]

Spreebee,

Thanks for the reply, but with all respect, I feel that "going Caribbean" is a mistake. I work at Wash U Med School, and the Dean of the med school (not the dean of admissions) tells me that such schools are a liability when applying for residency. Not only that, but there have been allegations of inadequate quality of education and USMLE score inflation via "weeding out" of a large portion of the student body prior to the test. In the opinions of people who would know, it's just a mistake.

With regards to the MCAT, who knows? I did fairly well the first time - I'm not ready to give up just yet. 🙂

Ok, I see your point... But, from experience,

There are about 20 some schools down here in the Caribbean... 16 out of the 20 a probably schools to be avoided... SGU, AUC, Ross are all "quality institutions." Let me elaborate further...

1)

Liability for Residency? This goes for the other 16 of the 20... SGU, AUC, Ross have thousands of practicing physicians in the U.S., with program directors that graduated from these schools...You are eligable to be licensed in all 50 stats, are provided Fafsa and gradplus loans by the U.S. government, etc...

2)

Weeding out of student body prior to test? Well, at my school (AUC), you are not weeded out from taking step 1 after basic science... You can opt to take a comp test after before you take step 1 to see where you stand (optional but recommended).

3) Everyone in the upper semesters at AUC that have graduated since I can so long remember have gained a residency in the U.S. (and your talking about 175 people per class). All you need is a high step 1 (like 240 out of 270) to be competitive for COMPETITIVE RESIDENCIES but that's not a problem (I've also seen many people get a residency with ease scoring a 205 for family practice or internal medicine).... For the most part high grades in U.S. clinical ROTATIONS and a HIGH Step 1 you can go into anything (as would be expected)... I know this from colaborating with various program directors knowing I'm going to be an FMG

4) Attrition is not a problem at the big 4 (>90 some % of people that attend will eventually graduate)... At my school, less than a dozen out of 175 failed out... Some decelled and will finish a semester or 2 later.... They don't kick you out if you fail 1 class... You can fail about 20 credit hours before your put before the board for dismissal....So, you would have to be a *****o to come down here and blow your time partying and not studying...

5) Overall, the match stats are bogus... Most CARIBBEAN students PRE-MATCH outside the MATCH and aren't even listed in the match statistics, leading people to think that there is only a 50% match rate... Generally, everyone that is a U.S. citizen will find a residency, it's the non-visa people that usually fail getting U.S. admittance and therefore bring the stats down.....

So, if you are determined to become a doctor and don't gain admittance to the U.S. in the future PM me and I will help you with your questions to expediate your medical education...