IA for Traffic Violation

[Valiant-Effort]

Hello SDN,

I need your help regarding an incident that occurred in 2022, I received a IA while driving through my school. During my commute, there was a construction zone in my lane, and had to temporarily cross into the opposite lane to continue to campus, following the flow of traffic. Shortly after, a campus police officer pulled me over and gave a ticket for driving on the wrong side of the road and speeding (saying I went 20 mph, which was the speed limit). Despite my attempts to explain the situation, the officer threatened to forcibly remove me from my car and arrest me if I did not accept the ticket. So I signed it.

After this, I received a notice from the Deans office to meet with him. Thats where I discovered that my school has a policy requiring students who receive a traffic ticket to speak with the Dean of Student Conduct. This policy seems arbitrary and unjust, as it does not take into account the context or severity of the infraction. Anyway during the meeting, I accepted responsibility without fully understanding the consequences of what I did, because I had an OCHEM final I wanted to study for.

Subsequently, I found the officer on campus and apologized to the officer for my behavior, and she decided to drop the ticket, sending a letter stating it was in the interest of justice to do so because I did nothing wrong. However, despite the ticket being rescinded, I was still found in violation of the student code of conduct, as the decision was made prior to the ticket's dismissal.

So despite the ticket being dropped, I was still found in violation of the student code of conduct, for a traffic infraction, and the dean refuses to reverse it, for what reason I do not know. I have a meeting with him again, will plead my case for a reversal but his assistant already mentioned the fact this has never been done and is unlikely to result in a reversal. The problem is my BCMgpa is around a 3.4 so already low to begin with so this just adds to the nonsense.

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[LunaOri]

This infraction would not affect your application in any way.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

This infraction would not affect your application in any way.

Well I would have to check off that I have an institutional action on my record.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Well I would have to check off that I have an institutional action on my record.

Ask the Student Conduct office to help you write your disclosure statement. How did you violate the Student Code of Conduct? Just the traffic ticket or your alleged? disrespectful behavior towards the officer?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Well I would have to check off that I have an institutional action on my record.

This is why it is a misnomer that checking the box is a "kiss of death" and gets you screened out. It is known that some schools give IAs for stupid things like this, so all that happens when you check the box is that someone reads the description and decides if it is something that should be considered against you. Anyone who reads this description will quickly understand that it's essentially a glorified traffic ticket, which was reversed, and your app will proceed.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

Ask the Student Conduct office to help you write your disclosure statement. How did you violate the Student Code of Conduct? Just the traffic ticket or your alleged? disrespectful behavior towards the officer?

Just the traffic ticket

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Just the traffic ticket

Be the honest broker and self-disclose. Anyone who reviews the IA disclosure will figure out this is trivial. Just don't throw shade in your disclosure.

Reporting an Institutional Action - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[wysdoc]

@Valiant-Effort I don't think this thing willl detract from your med school chances.

There is a larger lesson that you need to take in from this incident, though.
It sounds like you were very argumentative to the police officer (to the point of risk of arrest!) and subsequently to your school officials by escalating this trivial incident so many times.
When pulled over by police you should say yes sir, no sir, and listen calmly. If you feel "you didn't do anything wrong" this is not the time to argue it, do that in traffic court later.
You still sound angry, defensive and outraged about this. Insisting on another meeting with the dean two years later? You already have been tipped off by his assistant that this isn't going to go well.
There will be many times in the future when things don't go your way, learn when to fight and when to accept.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

Be the honest broker and self-disclose. Anyone who reviews the IA disclosure will figure out this is trivial. Just don't throw shade in your disclosure.

Reporting an Institutional Action - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Will do. Hard not to throw shade but I won't. I will talk about how I have grown as a person and probably won't mention that I argued with the cop.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

@Valiant-Effort I don't think this thing willl detract from your med school chances.

There is a larger lesson that you need to take in from this incident, though.
It sounds like you were very argumentative to the police officer (to the point of risk of arrest!) and subsequently to your school officials by escalating this trivial incident so many times.
When pulled over by police you should say yes sir, no sir, and listen calmly. If you feel "you didn't do anything wrong" this is not the time to argue it, do that in traffic court later.
You still sound angry, defensive and outraged about this. Insisting on another meeting with the dean two years later? You already have been tipped off by his assistant that this isn't going to go well.
There will be many times in the future when things don't go your way, learn when to fight and when to accept

I get your point 100% and you are correct in the fact that I am still outraged over it two years later, you are very good at interpreting things not exactly said, I know you got that 132 on CARS 😆. Anyway, when initially giving the ticket I was very respectful to the officer, responded ma'am and handed my license and registration without any issue. I got angry when she started writing me my ticket and when I asked what I did she just said you'll find out in court. I'd like to add also I wasn't necessary argumentative with the officer just asked why I am getting a ticket and said I did nothing wrong, I just didn't want to sign the ticket until she told me what I did wrong, IE she said I was speeding, and driving on the wrong side of the road (wrote on the ticket going 20 mph, but the school speed limit was 20 miles an hour) and I explained it she said if I don't sign it she's going to pull me out of my car. Anyway, my first meeting with the dean was initially due to the ticket. I have not met with him since due to the fact I thought since the ticket was dropped, the charge against me, for breaking the student code of conduct would subsequently be dropped as well. Turns out it wasn't the case. I learned a lot of the situation I assure you, I just disagree with the outcome due to it having a ripple effect on my potential career outcome. I apologized to the officer for being argumentative and explained my life situation at the time and why I was angry at the time, she gave me a hug and then dropped the ticket. I am a cynical person, I have little hope and therefore have accepted that this will be on my record, as stupid as it is, and accepted it about a month ago.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Dude you've got to let this go. It's a traffic ticket. The amount of time you have spent on this could have been put to much better use, yet you're still getting defensive about it. We get it, this was dumb, but it doesn't seem like you're going to get the outcome you're looking for.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

Dude you've got to let this go. It's a traffic ticket. The amount of time you have spent on this could have been put to much better use, yet you're still getting defensive about it. We get it, this was dumb, but it doesn't seem like you're going to get the outcome you're looking for.

yeah your right

 

[Valiant-Effort]

Dude you've got to let this go. It's a traffic ticket. The amount of time you have spent on this could have been put to much better use, yet you're still getting defensive about it. We get it, this was dumb, but it doesn't seem like you're going to get the outcome you're looking for.

I know you are over it and probably don't care or want to hear about it further, but should I still meet with the dean

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

I know you are over it and probably don't care or want to hear about it further, but should I still meet with the dean

The answer is clearly a no. Nobody cares about a random traffic ticket dude.

 

[Goro]

This infraction would not affect your application in any way.

Agreed. This is a nothingburger!

 

[Valiant-Effort]

The answer is clearly a no. Nobody cares about a random traffic ticket dude.

it's not about the ticket, it's about being flagged out due to having an IA. ADCOMs view thousands of applicants so I assume they will look for reasons for rejection, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if schools are using AI to review applicants, which can indiscriminately reject or pre-secondary reject over something like an IA, without context. Maybe I am wrong

 

[LunaOri]

it's not about the ticket, it's about being flagged out due to having an IA. ADCOMs view thousands of applicants so I assume they will look for reasons for rejection, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if schools are using AI to review applicants, which can indiscriminately reject or pre-secondary reject over something like an IA, without context. Maybe I am wrong

You are wrong. We keep telling you this is nothing, but you keep making a big deal out of it. The infraction isn't a red flag, but your response to it is not ideal.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I know you are over it and probably don't care or want to hear about it further, but I should I still meet with the dean

As others have said, this is not a red flag, and it has been made clear you won’t overturn this. So I would cancel

 

[Valiant-Effort]

You are wrong. We keep telling you this is nothing, but you keep making a big deal out of it. The infraction isn't a red flag, but your response to it is not ideal.

alright, I was just upset because I thought I was done for. Feeling a bit better now and more hopeful. Thanks guys appreciate you all.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

As others have said, this is not a red flag, and it has been made clear you won’t overturn this. So I would cancel

your right

 

[Valiant-Effort]

So I still met with the dean and he said he totally understand the situation and he will reverse it but needs proof saying an institutional action is a barrier of entry for medical school apps. Any idea where I can find proof of this? Obviously no school is going to explicitly say IAs are bad, they allow people to apply who have felonies on their record. Anyways, I already called AMCAS and they said I don’t need to report it if it is reversed. Thanks.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

So I still met with the dean and he said he totally understand the situation and he will reverse it but needs proof saying an institutional action is a barrier of entry for medical school apps. Any idea where I can find proof of this? Obviously no school is going to explicitly say IAs are bad, they allow people to apply who have felonies on their record. Anyways, I already called AMCAS and they said I don’t need to report it if it is reversed. Thanks.

NOT legal advice or any advice associated with any organization I have ever been involved with.

Nothing will be definitive, but it can result in some litigation exposure. But language signals intention here.

Institutional Action

Institutional Action

students-residents.aamc.org

makes it clear you must disclose expunged IA's or convictions. Any inconsistency could result in an investigation by AAMC.

Admissions Unveiled: What You Need to Know

We asked three medical school admissions professionals frequently asked questions about the application process.

students-residents.aamc.org

read What is the most common mistake applicants make in which admissions may turn away? responses. Not definitive nor representative of all adcoms, but it does infer how seriously PATTERNS of behavior are viewed.

Conduct & Community Standards | Advising

Good judgment, honesty, and integrity are essential qualities of prospective health care professionals. For that reason the American Medical College Application Service (

advising.duke.edu

may be quoting AAMC/AMCAS: In fact AMCAS shares, “medical schools understand that many individuals learn from the past and emerge stronger as a result. Full disclosure will enable medical schools to evaluate the information more effectively within the context of your application.” Medical schools can withdraw their acceptance, and medical students can be refused certification. NOTE: AMCAS does not make decisions; medical schools do. Individual medical schools may differ when it comes to you not disclosing expunged records, so it's always safe to disclose and note that the charge was reversed or expunged as long as the Dean confirms you to state this.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-are-my-options-if-medical-schools-request-con-4884926.html

especially the Dean's Certification Form.

Now, we have told you that in your specific case, your traffic cop argument will likely not be seen as a liability that endangers patients or could subject you to professional license revocation. Write a convincing, authentic statement of your contrition, and hopefully, this will satisfy any doubts.

The issue is going to be if you got accepted but a Dean's Certification/Affadavit is required to complete the enrollment process, what is your dean going to do? Any inconsistency could jeopardize your potential acceptance.

Posting again.

Legal Matters: Institutional Action Basics - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Reporting an Institutional Action - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

So in short, there are apocalyptic warnings placed about reporting all IA's truthfully and consistently, even if they are expunged, no matter how trivial.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

NOT legal advice or any advice associated with any organization I have ever been involved with.

Nothing will be definitive, but it can result in some litigation exposure. But language signals intention here.

Institutional Action

Institutional Action

students-residents.aamc.org

makes it clear you must disclose expunged IA's or convictions. Any inconsistency could result in an investigation by AAMC.

Admissions Unveiled: What You Need to Know

We asked three medical school admissions professionals frequently asked questions about the application process.

students-residents.aamc.org

read What is the most common mistake applicants make in which admissions may turn away? responses. Not definitive nor representative of all adcoms, but it does infer how seriously PATTERNS of behavior are viewed.

Conduct & Community Standards | Advising

Good judgment, honesty, and integrity are essential qualities of prospective health care professionals. For that reason the American Medical College Application Service (

advising.duke.edu

may be quoting AAMC/AMCAS: In fact AMCAS shares, “medical schools understand that many individuals learn from the past and emerge stronger as a result. Full disclosure will enable medical schools to evaluate the information more effectively within the context of your application.” Medical schools can withdraw their acceptance, and medical students can be refused certification. NOTE: AMCAS does not make decisions; medical schools do. Individual medical schools may differ when it comes to you not disclosing expunged records, so it's always safe to disclose and note that the charge was reversed or expunged as long as the Dean confirms you to state this.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-are-my-options-if-medical-schools-request-con-4884926.html

especially the Dean's Certification Form.

Now, we have told you that in your specific case, your traffic cop argument will likely not be seen as a liability that endangers patients or could subject you to professional license revocation. Write a convincing, authentic statement of your contrition, and hopefully, this will satisfy any doubts.

The issue is going to be if you got accepted but a Dean's Certification/Affadavit is required to complete the enrollment process, what is your dean going to do? Any inconsistency could jeopardize your potential acceptance.

Posting again.

Legal Matters: Institutional Action Basics - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Reporting an Institutional Action - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

So in short, there are apocalyptic warnings placed about reporting all IA's truthfully and consistently, even if they are expunged, no matter how trivial.

Thanks for the thoroughness, now when I spoke to the dean he mentioned that this is not an “expungement” from my record rather a reversal in the way I would have never actually received the IA in the first place. I will no longer be found responsible for breaking the student code of conduct therefore no institution action would be on my record. If this is the case why report and it if I am no longer found responsible and therefore have not broken the student code of conduct? Genuine question, I’m not trying to be disingenuous or unscrupulous or anything. This situation is very difficult.

Now I understand any human being reading the situation would find it as Goro said, a nothing burger, but it’s not like I have 4.0. When discussing whether to accept me or someone else the adcoms in a meeting can decide easily by saying “well he has an institutional action”, technically speaking.

Anyway, I understand your point Smiles, I should leave no room for error in the case of getting an acceptance revoked but if its reversed. But I am no longer responsible, therefore I have not broken any code of conduct, meaning I don't have an institutional action on my record. Even if the dean or me have to submit a Dean's certification/affidavit they will see I am no longer responsible and have not broken any conduct record. How would this affect my acceptance, technically I am no longer responsible, so I did not have to report because I don't have an IA. Again I don't truly understand how this process works and that's why I am reaching out for further clarification, I appreciate your responses and take everything you say seriously. Thank you for everything

 

[GoSpursGo]

I honestly think that the risk of it appearing that you're hiding an IA outweighs the risk of having a traffic ticket on your record.

That said I think you could reasonably go through with getting this "reversed," still report the IA, and say it was reversed in the description. It is already a nothingburger, and saying it was reversed will make it clear it's even less important.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

I honestly think that the risk of it appearing that you're hiding an IA outweighs the risk of having a traffic ticket on your record.

That said I think you could reasonably go through with getting this "reversed," still report the IA, and say it was reversed in the description. It is already a nothingburger, and saying it was reversed will make it clear it's even less important.

Thats a really good point.

 

[Dee2daK]

I honestly think that the risk of it appearing that you're hiding an IA outweighs the risk of having a traffic ticket on your record.

That said I think you could reasonably go through with getting this "reversed," still report the IA, and say it was reversed in the description. It is already a nothingburger, and saying it was reversed will make it clear it's even less important.

This.

If it’s reversed, great. Claim it, and if the school says “we don’t have any record of this” then you’ve already got yourself covered with why it might not show up. If it does, no worries - as many have said, it’s a nothing issue. IA’s aren’t a big deal and will always be considered in the context of what they are by an actual person. As others have stated, this is such a meaningless infraction that it won’t affect your chances of being admitted. No reasonable ADCOM member will evaluate your application and say “We’d admit them, if only they hadn’t had this minor traffic violation 😔”. That’s objectively ridiculous.

 

[Robin-jay]

I found that I was specifically neurotic in my 20's. I don't know why, but I was.

In the real world, including admission teams, hospitals, etc., no one cares about traffic tickets, and if they do, that's a red flag on them.

check box it, don't check box it, whatever. Should you check box it and explain it briefly, probably. No one is probably going to care what you do in this case.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for the thoroughness, now when I spoke to the dean he mentioned that this is not an “expungement” from my record rather a reversal in the way I would have never actually received the IA in the first place. I will no longer be found responsible for breaking the student code of conduct therefore no institution action would be on my record. If this is the case why report and it if I am no longer found responsible and therefore have not broken the student code of conduct? Genuine question, I’m not trying to be disingenuous or unscrupulous or anything. This situation is very difficult.

It is difficult because the administrator does not want to acknowledge he/she/they have to do their job to increase the chance you get into medical school. Granted they don't see it as their responsibility, and they don't understand why AAMC is making a huge deal.

Use the dean's words "reversal" over expunged. Keep a record of your conversations and lock it in a safe place if AAMC or the school decides they want proof.

 

[lockon7]

Won't affect you in any way and also this Dean guy sounds like a real piece of work.

 

[IlDestriero]

Won't affect you in any way and also this Dean guy sounds like a real piece of work.

Yeah, he seems even dumber now than before. Is his name Dean Wormer? If so you can borrow my classic corvette and defile his wife as retribution for wasting your time and causing you stress.

https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/leaderpost/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/no-iptc-info-found12.jpeg?quality=90&strip=all&w=576&h=432&type=webp&sig=xRUmIWhyc2xiZ02gnhBIaw

 

[Valiant-Effort]

It is difficult because the administrator does not want to acknowledge he/she/they have to do their job to increase the chance you get into medical school. Granted they don't see it as their responsibility, and they don't understand why AAMC is making a huge deal.

Use the dean's words "reversal" over expunged. Keep a record of your conversations and lock it in a safe place if AAMC or the school decides they want proof.

So your saying don’t report and if anything comes up, if I get accepted and they flag me, I explain he said it was reversed, not expunged or deleted and the AAMC requires deletions or expungement to be reported not reversals

 

[LizzyM]

Look, schools examine IAs and say either "no way we would want someone who did *that* at our school" or just shake their heads, maybe chuckle a bit and put the application in the queue for further review by the committee and possible interview. The IA never comes up again. It is purely a yes/no situation. We are all telling you that getting pulled over by a cop and later being accused of breaking the school's conduct code (or maybe on second thought, you didn't break the code) is NOT going to be a roadblock (pardon the pun) to admission, regardless of your GPA. An assessment of your grades, scores, and activities, etc are considered separately after you pass the initial screen of whether or not you are such a heinous criminal that we would not want you in our midst.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

Look, schools examine IAs and say either "no way we would want someone who did *that* at our school" or just shake their heads, maybe chuckle a bit and put the application in the queue for further review by the committee and possible interview. The IA never comes up again. It is purely a yes/no situation. We are all telling you that getting pulled over by a cop and later being accused of breaking the school's conduct code (or maybe on second thought, you didn't break the code) is NOT going to be a roadblock (pardon the pun) to admission, regardless of your GPA. An assessment of your grades, scores, and activities, etc are considered separately after you pass the initial screen of whether or not you are such a heinous criminal that we would not want you in our midst.

To be honest with you I am in GPA repair mode (taking a bunch of classes Goro got me taking Calculus 1 and 2) to up my gpa. My cgpa is a 3.5 my BCMgpa is 3.4 (my mom had cancer dont remind me). So its the fact that its mediocre, and I graduated from a state school with less than 50 applicants to med school every year and on top of that with an IA thats making me question my own abilities to get accepted haha the odds are against me lizzy. ECs are good, working full time as a scrub tech and was previously a scribe for the majority of college.

Anways I am not being disingenuous or lying on my apps so please don’t mock me for lacking ethics. Thank you all for your responses. Advice always appreciated. And if your sick of this thread you don’t need to tell me I get it I truly do. The situation is so difficult that the AAMC even told me it was but said if it was reversed technically it’s something I don’t have to report.

 

[Valiant-Effort]

So he wanted a follow up meeting with me and we discussed some things so heres what I will tell you all maybe you guys can advice next further: #1: he said that he will be reversing my institutional action, overriding it like a grade change, meaning it will not show up like I ever got one. #2: he mentioned for the Dean’s affidavit/ certification he would click no because he said I am no longer responsible. #3: I showed him the exact wording of the AAMC, saying it says “Were you EVER the recipient of an institution action record…” so I asked him and said well technically I was so I would have to report, and he said no I was not because the I am no longer found responsible. I told him about how you have to report deleted or expunged and he said it was not deleted or expunged its still on a record and if schools want to see it they will see it, but it will say I was found not responsible of a conduct violation. So essentially he said if the school requests my disciplinary action record, they will see that I had to talk to the Dean, but he said it will show up as found not responsible for the charge. #4: He said he’s sorry about this.

Do I still report?

 

[Valiant-Effort]

The plot thickens

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Write your response of the incident, and include the details from your meeting about how it has been resolved.