If medical school wasn't so expensive and time-consuming, would you drop out?

[OncHeme2B]

I feel like I have given everything up for this life that is just making me unhappy, and I am almost $150,000 in debt with no way to pay it back. I have been working towards becoming a doctor for a decade...and have poured all my time and money and heart and soul into it...but I am still very unhappy. I do love kids and do desire to be either a pediatrician or a pediatric oncologist/hematologist...but I have a bachelors in biochemistry and do not love science anymore, I am actually sick of it and am completely exhausted. My parents and teachers are urging me to give it up since they see me drained. Something in me keeps going despite all my setbacks, but I am wondering if I am foolish for even pursuing medicine. Should I leave this field?

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[OncHeme2B]

Oh yeah and I should say, if I do drop out of medical school, since I have a bachelors in biochem, what is the first thing I should do so that I can start paying my massive quarter million in debt loans back. I will have to start working right away. Such as, what is the best type of job I should start searching for so that I can make money and pay my loans off fast?

Serious replies only please...I have no desire to be a stripper

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Um how far are you to finishing?

 

[DrKnowItAll]

Go into politics and change this fkkking healthcare system that is screwing us practicing physicians.

Finish med school. Then do an MBA or a post doc in health policy.

If you are this miserable now you'll become suicidal as a practicing physician (I know many that are)

Man, if I could do it all over again..........................

 

[njbmd]

I feel like I have given everything up for this life that is just making me unhappy, and I am almost $150,000 in debt with no way to pay it back. I have been working towards becoming a doctor for a decade...and have poured all my time and money and heart and soul into it...but I am still very unhappy. I do love kids and do desire to be either a pediatrician or a pediatric oncologist/hematologist...but I have a bachelors in biochemistry and do not love science anymore, I am actually sick of it and am completely exhausted. My parents and teachers are urging me to give it up since they see me drained. Something in me keeps going despite all my setbacks, but I am wondering if I am foolish for even pursuing medicine. Should I leave this field?

I will strongly caution you about trying to make this decision on your own or with any of the opinions that you are likely to read here. You need the input of people who know you well and a counselor who can help you weigh your options. I don't think that you are likely to get anything from a public message board that is going to be of much use to you.

In short, if you are totally unhappy with the course of study that you have chosen, then talk it over with your faculty adviser, your Dean and a personal counselor who may be able to help you get at all of the aspects of the factors that are driving your unhappiness. Only after getting some objective information and exploring your motives for pursuing medicine can you make the decision that works for you. This is not likely to happen here at Student Doctor Network.

 

[NonTradMed]

The only advice I can offer is that if you are far along on your medical career, it would be in your favor to finish it. Even if you swear you may not use the degree now, the fact that you have allows you to use it in the future should you decide to reconsider your choice. Otherwise, work this out with counselors and your dean and see what your problem is and what the best course of action. Medical school is a difficult to walk away from and the decision should only be taken if you are deeply unhappy in school.

I can't think of too many careers outside of medicine that will allow you to pay back your student loans as a biochem undergrad. I guess law school would be a pretty good way, but law is also intense and demanding and you can be equally unhappy there (and even more in debt). Sorry, I can't be of more help. Good luck!

 

[DrFraud]

I feel like I have given everything up for this life that is just making me unhappy, and I am almost $150,000 in debt with no way to pay it back. I have been working towards becoming a doctor for a decade...and have poured all my time and money and heart and soul into it...but I am still very unhappy. I do love kids and do desire to be either a pediatrician or a pediatric oncologist/hematologist...but I have a bachelors in biochemistry and do not love science anymore, I am actually sick of it and am completely exhausted. My parents and teachers are urging me to give it up since they see me drained. Something in me keeps going despite all my setbacks, but I am wondering if I am foolish for even pursuing medicine. Should I leave this field?

There is nothing worse than feeling trapped. I am sure that you have thought and considered this much, but I would recommend speaking with some more physicians. A lot of MDs hated medical school, and then changed once they were in practice, but I also know others that were perpetually miserable forever, and they did not make good physicians. My point is that you have to try and figure out if this is because you are burned out from school or if this is because you are certain you dont want to practice medicine.

Also, try talking to some people who are not physicians and asking them how much they love their jobs. You will find as many unhappy teachers and research scientists as you do MDs - my point is that it isnt always a career that makes someone happy or unhappy, and you have to realize that changing a profession might not affect your disposition.

Otherwise, consider that maybe you havent found the right specialty? If you are absolutly convinced that you should leave medicine, take a leave of absence first, if you can, and step away from everything for a few months.

 

[OncoCaP]

Oh yeah and I should say, if I do drop out of medical school, since I have a bachelors in biochem, what is the first thing I should do so that I can start paying my massive quarter million in debt loans back. I will have to start working right away. Such as, what is the best type of job I should start searching for so that I can make money and pay my loans off fast?

Serious replies only please...I have no desire to be a stripper

Is it possible to take a leave of absence for a year and recharge your batteries? You sound very burned out. Maybe a little time doing something you enjoy would help you center yourself and either continue with med school or confirm that you really are on the wrong road after all. If at all possible, I would at least continue through to completion of the MD and then find something that you can do that you enjoy or at least hate the least. Having the MD will open some doors.

As far as the debt goes, you'll pay it back the best you can. It's a big burden, and thus it would probably be wise to complete your education and training so that you can work that off at a physician's wage. If that isn't possible, you can simply pay it off the best you can in whatever job suits you. If you are not paying back your loans as agreed, it will hurt you when it's time to borrow money for a car, house, etc. Some jobs also require a credit check that you might not pass with a troubled loan. You'll need to get an attorney and negotiate a loan repayment that you can live with. As long as you don't surprise your lenders by not paying your loans (work with them somewhat in advance ... an attorney could help you sort this out) they may abuse your credit record a little bit less than they otherwise would.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[-Goose-]

Med school sucks man. I don't know very many people who "like it", as in enjoying it on a daily basis. However, if you're truly miserable and genuinely think you would be happier in another career (that is feasibly going to pay off the debt you mentioned), then switch.

I think of med school (and really any school, for that matter) as a continuing form of self-investment. Once I started thinking like that, it made the late nights and early weekend mornings of studying more bearable.

School will pass. Residency will come, and although it will be more "work," you will be doing what you set out to do. Yeah, the money's not great as a resident, but you'll get there.

As others have mentioned, I'd at least finish school. You could get a job in the healthcare or pharmaceutical industry. Get on with a big company, have the 9-5 "lifestyle", a 401k, stock options, etc. My uncle did this & he's pretty happy. Super bitter about medicine though.

 

[nowanmd]

First, medical school (especially the first 2 years) has little resemblence to the daily life of a doctor. Second, as the philosopher Taco Bell says you can always think outside the bun. A doctor can do many things that lie outside traditional clinical practice-epidemiology, clinical research, policy making, marketing etc. All will pay you decently, if not very well. I'm out of residency about 8 years- many, and i mean many times i wanted to quit. My biggest gripe now is against insurance companies and administrators eating my lunch- but guess what I'm a doctor and when the **** hits the fan these other trolls are not and when they get fired I'll still be standing. So hang in there. There are so many things we TRUE PROFESSIONALS can do.

 

[DrKnowItAll]

First, medical school (especially the first 2 years) has little resemblence to the daily life of a doctor. Second, as the philosopher Taco Bell says you can always think outside the bun. A doctor can do many things that lie outside traditional clinical practice-epidemiology, clinical research, policy making, marketing etc. All will pay you decently, if not very well. I'm out of residency about 8 years- many, and i mean many times i wanted to quit. My biggest gripe now is against insurance companies and administrators eating my lunch- but guess what I'm a doctor and when the **** hits the fan these other trolls are not and when they get fired I'll still be standing. So hang in there. There are so many things we TRUE PROFESSIONALS can do.

The trolls will retire early while you'll be working into your late 60s to stay afloat..

 

[-Goose-]

The trolls will retire early while you'll be working into your late 60s to stay afloat..

 

[Misterioso]

Here we go again. People, how many times are you gonna talk about the same thing? Every other day somebody starts a thread about this exact same subject but words it differently, and people rehash the same "advice". Get over it already. If you like it, keep doing it. If you don't, do something else. We don't need anymore phonies staying in the profession because they don't want to take the initiative to do something else with their life.

 

[smq123]

Here we go again. People, how many times are you gonna talk about the same thing? Every other day somebody starts a thread about this exact same subject but words it differently, and people rehash the same "advice". Get over it already. If you like it, keep doing it. If you don't, do something else. We don't need anymore phonies staying in the profession because they don't want to take the initiative to do something else with their life.

Oh gee. Misterioso (aka "The troll that everyone loves to hate") is back. That probation didn't last very long, did it?

OP - don't pay attention. I think that it's important to explore these issues before you get yourself any further in debt. I agree with njbmd - talk to your dean and advisors. Talk to some other doctors that you feel comfortable with. SDN (as you've probably figured out by now) is not always the best place to discuss these things - you attract some good advice, but also a lot of trolls.

 

[humuhumu]

I do love kids and do desire to be either a pediatrician or a pediatric oncologist/hematologist...

If that's what you really desire, I'd find a way to stick it out. I'd consider talking to a cognitive behavioral therapist and/or a psychiatrist. You may need to train your brain to process your personal experiences in a different way. I know that may sound trivial but I can tell you from my personal experience that CBT works wonders. You may also be depressed. Bottom line: make sure your brain has a clean bill of health before making a big decision that you might later regret.

 

[OncHeme2B]

Thank you so much for the replies everybody Good to know that I am not the only one who is sad. I went to a pediatrics center the other day and found some great joy in hanging out with children with cancer and AIDS. I was the bright spot in their day and I honestly think I will enjoy pediatrics, screaming kids or not I will keep on studying.

On another note - to all the people on this board that are failing classes, etc...HANG IN THERE and study hard!!! You can do it

 

[UFGatorMed]

I'm Pre-Med and don't really know what you are going through.

But you should really read this...
http://www.chimaeraconsulting.com/sitleader.htm

Its kind of cool.

I'll give you a synopses. When you start something new you are USUALLY pretty pumped to dive in and become good at it. Most Pre-Meds don't really know what they are getting themselves into when they apply to medical school, however they are extremely excited. From the view point of Kent Blanchard they would be in the S1 stage of SSL. S1 is when you have high motivation and low skill. Once the euphoria of how great this new thing is you are starting is gone, and you realize how HARD it is going to be to succeed and become good at this you are in the S2 stage of SSL. You have low motivation and low skill. This is where you are at. Click the link and read on.

THE BOTTOM LINE ~ For the most part I am sure most medical students go through what you are going through. Stick with it, after all it can only get better.

 

[johankriek]

Ive been practicing a few years.. and it doesnt get better. I was in the same exact position as the original poster but the only way I got through it was I said to myself well.. the next step will get better.. after each step I would say that to myself.. and guess what.. It never got better... it sucked. the whole process. and now im practicing looking for other options.. So finish med school.. and do something else.. you started something.. might as well finish it.. Incicdentally my friend got kicked out of medical school when we were 3rd years.. he was super talented I googles him and he wrote a book.. and is on the circuit pushing it

 

[dilated]

Ive been practicing a few years.. and it doesnt get better. I was in the same exact position as the original poster but the only way I got through it was I said to myself well.. the next step will get better.. after each step I would say that to myself.. and guess what.. It never got better... it sucked. the whole process. and now im practicing looking for other options.. So finish med school.. and do something else.. you started something.. might as well finish it.. Incicdentally my friend got kicked out of medical school when we were 3rd years.. he was super talented I googles him and he wrote a book.. and is on the circuit pushing it

Well, it depends on why you hate it. Most jobs really suck, from corporate lawyer to walmart cashier. It's easy to get caught up in the crappy parts of medicine without recognizing how crappy most other jobs are. What eats me about most other jobs is how pointless they are; the best you can hope for by excelling is to get a little more money. At least in medicine you (sometimes) get results that matter.

Preclinical to clinical to residency are almost like 3 totally different jobs. If you hate all three I somehow doubt you would have been ecstatic if only you'd not gone to medical school.

 

[soeagerun2or]

I feel like I have given everything up for this life that is just making me unhappy, and I am almost $150,000 in debt with no way to pay it back. I have been working towards becoming a doctor for a decade...and have poured all my time and money and heart and soul into it...but I am still very unhappy. I do love kids and do desire to be either a pediatrician or a pediatric oncologist/hematologist...but I have a bachelors in biochemistry and do not love science anymore, I am actually sick of it and am completely exhausted. My parents and teachers are urging me to give it up since they see me drained. Something in me keeps going despite all my setbacks, but I am wondering if I am foolish for even pursuing medicine. Should I leave this field?

Are you a first year at an offshore school that made you pay the full tuition up front? From where did you receive your biochemistry degree? Industry poaches students from top biochemistry schools for relatively high pay.

Personally, I think I would like medical school better if it were less time consuming and cheaper.

 

[OncHeme2B]

No I'm a second year...and got my biochem degree from a top engineering school...no names mentioned...

but yeah I used to work at a $35/hour paying job at a pharmaceutical corp...miss those days

 

[SnowTown]

I'll just throw out another option... finish and go into consulting.

 

[OncHeme2B]

Ahhhh hell yeah! Consulting = big grin LOL...so thats what everyones doing now eh

 

[johankriek]

No I'm a second year...and got my biochem degree from a top engineering school...no names mentioned...

but yeah I used to work at a $35/hour paying job at a pharmaceutical corp...miss those days

great after 8 years of training as a physician(int med fp peds etc youll be making like 60 bucks an hour.. and they will pay you that begrudgingly..

 

[uclabruins47]

great after 8 years of training as a physician(int med fp peds etc youll be making like 60 bucks an hour.. and they will pay you that begrudgingly..

actually, that is not true.

considering an avg medicine hospitalist in a big city, lets assume making 150k starting out (pretty good salary for a big city) and is single:
- tax for a taxable income of 150k is $36,000, which leaves you $114
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
- with a reasonable assumption that an average hospitalist works about 60 hrs a week (they dont work 40 hrs thats for sure), that leaves you with $114/52 wks/(60hrs/wk) = $36/hr.

Now lets factor in debt:
- lets say the avg debt is $250k (accrued interest included over 10 yrs, which iis a conservative guess), and that you will start paying back once you become an attending, that leaves you with $25k per year to pay off debt, so your actual income becomes $125k before tax.
-Doing the same above calculation, that gives us an hourly wage of $30/hr

as a resident, my salary is about $43k (really nice relatively speaking)
after tax is $36000. My prog is nice so I "only" work about 70h/wk. that leaves me with ~$9.90/h
my buddy who graduated from calpoly with a B.A. who works for a company's sales dept makes $20/h for maybe 35h/wk

yay

 

[Taurus]

that leaves you with $25k per year to pay off debt, so your actual income becomes $125k before tax.

Money that you use to pay back loans is after tax money, not before taxes. If I recall, the government gives you a little tax break for the interest accrued, but it's not much.

 

[maxbaner]

what did you decide to do?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Looks like he decided to get banned.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Money that you use to pay back loans is after tax money, not before taxes. If I recall, the government gives you a little tax break for the interest accrued, but it's not much.

That would be awesome if we could use pre-tax money to pay back loans. Why is this thread alive? Wasn't the OP banned or something?

 

[maxbaner]

actually, that is not true.

considering an avg medicine hospitalist in a big city, lets assume making 150k starting out (pretty good salary for a big city) and is single:
- tax for a taxable income of 150k is $36,000, which leaves you $114
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
- with a reasonable assumption that an average hospitalist works about 60 hrs a week (they dont work 40 hrs thats for sure), that leaves you with $114/52 wks/(60hrs/wk) = $36/hr.

Wow, is it really about $36/hr? Is malpractice, etc already accounted for? Pharmacists are making around $55+/- per hour and malpractice is really low. And work around 40hrs/wk and more for overtime pay.

 

[ATrain]

That would be awesome if we could use pre-tax money to pay back loans. Why is this thread alive? Wasn't the OP banned or something?

I thought the interest portion is deductable

 

[DocPsychosis]

Student loan interest payments are tax deductible (i.e. out of pre-tax income), given the stipulations in this website: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc456.html.

And while Misterioso may be a dick who gets himself banned he's not entirely wrong here. I realize that this is difficult, and that it's good to get your feelings out in the open and bond with your fellow student and all that. But I swear medical students are some of the most bitching & complaining people out there. Yeah, it's hard for you. It's hard for everyone. Whining about it will only make it seem even that much more difficult. Instead of posting on an internet forum about it, try a) doing something to make your life suck less, or b) dealing with it like everyone else does with their crappy lives.

Sorry if I sounded harsh, but sometimes I feel like this stuff never ends.

 

[MONKEYBOY]

Why do dentists make so much then?

Family Dentist (4 years of D school) average income is about $112,000.


I'm in dental school, but believe that physicians should be reimbursed better than this insulting numbers talked about on this thread.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

Why do dentists make so much then?

Family Dentist (4 years of D school) average income is about $112,000.


I'm in dental school, but believe that physicians should be reimbursed better than this insulting numbers talked about on this thread.

Many physicians do make more than 150K; however, I think everyone is using an average number (from a physician's perspective) to give the OP an idea of a realistic situation. In regards to the OP's original post, it will probably be in your best interest to finish the degree and look for opportunties outside of clinical medicine (if you're truly dissatisfied). Additionally, once you have the degree, there are many programs to drastically reduce your debtload (military, national health corps--this one especially since you want to go into pediatrics, etc.); an option you wouldn't have if you do not finish. Finally, everyone is always bitching about the negatives of the medical field; however, the wide spectrum of opportunites that exist serves to be one hell of a unique positive. Consequently, I find it hard to believe that there isn't something within the profession you'd end up loving. Do some research, stay positive, and best of luck with your decision.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Many physicians do make more than 150K; however, I think everyone is using an average number (from a physician's perspective) to give the OP an idea of a realistic situation. In regards to the OP's original post, it will probably be in your best interest to finish the degree and look for opportunties outside of clinical medicine (if you're truly dissatisfied). Additionally, once you have the degree, there are many programs to drastically reduce your debtload (military, national health corps--this one especially since you want to go into pediatrics, etc.); an option you wouldn't have if you do not finish. Finally, everyone is always bitching about the negatives of the medical field; however, the wide spectrum of opportunites that exist serves to be one hell of a unique positive. Consequently, I find it hard to believe that there isn't something within the profession you'd end up loving. Do some research, stay positive, and best of luck with your decision.

I agree. People are always complaining about the medical field, but I think for most they are out of touch with our current economy. At least you don't have to worry about being without a job or losing your home because you couldn't make a payment! Look around at other fields, and then you will relaize how blessed you are to be where you are.