If you are applying to University of Hawaii med school, you might want to read

[ocwaveoc]

FYI,
Before anyone applies to Hawaii (JABSOM), you should consider the following as I am a resident of Hawaii and at one time was going to apply to JABSOM (stands for John A. Burns School Of Medicine).

The med school's version of "Hawaii resident" is if an applicant has 3 of the following.
1-you were born in Hawaii
2-you went to high school in Hawaii
3-you went to college in Hawaii
4-your parents live in Hawaii
5-you've lived in Hawaii for a year before applying for med school
6-a family member is a JABSOM grad (not sure how close the family member needs to be)
7-can't recall what this is...but there is a seventh one.

Basically, if you are not from Hawaii, you'd only have 2 of the 7. The admissions office tells you that with a good reason for applying to JABSOM, some applicants are granted the 3rd point. However, most would agree that this is lip service. This school really wants grads who'll stay in Hawaii. Out of staters have a much higher chance of leaving Hawaii. Hawaii has a TREMENDOUS problem with retaining doctors in the state. This has been on TV and newspaper. So, keeping physicians here is paramount for them. So, even if one is granted the 3rd point, I would not bet that you'd be chosen in the final adcom meeting over someone who's likely to stay in Hawaii.

Now, if you don't have the 3 points from above, you have to have ridiculously high stat (high enough for UC schools) to move on to various phases of the application process.

If you want to know how the students move from one stage of the application process, here it is.
If you have the 3 points (meaning you are a Hawaii resident in the eyes of the med school), you need to get 6 or 8 points (can't recall exactly which) in the following areas.

GPA, BS, VR, PS in MCAT, masters degree, etc.....I think you are given 3 points if you have GPA of 3.9<, 2 for 3.80...also 1 point for 9, 2 for 10, 3 for 11 in each section of MCAT (not sure of the exact break down and the points given...but my numbers are close) and 1 point for a masters degree, a point for a published research etc.......there are a few other things where you can earn points.

If you are NOT a Hawaii resident in the eyes of the med school (don't have those 3 points in the first section of this post), then you need 13 or 16 points (can't recall which) or so in order to move on to the next phase of the application process.

The school doesn't like to tell you this stuff. They really keep stuff very hush hush. The only reason I sort of know is because the pre med advising center used to have a sheet of paper which listed this info for the applicants. But, it was pulled about 2 years ago. When I told the office that I saw this sheet at the pre med advising ctr, they told me "oh, that's not supposed to be available to the students!!" I think they pulled it after my conversation with them. When I went to see them for advice, I really got the feeling that they do not want out of state students even transplants. Having said that, they do reserve 6 students out of 62 they accept for out of staters. Again, from one of the med students (he is a grandson of a patient I had as a physical therapist), those out of staters came from Ivy league and other very prestigious universities.

So, if you think you can get 13 or 16 points of the above areas (and a few more, you can contact the office and find out what the area in which you can earn points in..but, they won't tell you the points allotted for diff areas), by all means apply. Otherwise, forget about it.

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[medking]

Thanks alot for the kind post. I'm an OOS applicant and was fortunate enough to receive an interview invite.

Can I ask why you decided not to apply to JABSOM?

Thanks!

 

[DrMattOglesby]

*the most depressing thread, ever*
goodbye top choice school, so long and farewell.
you didnt know how bad i wanted you...and i wouldve stayed after i graduated...oh yes i would have. And i would have done soooo much for you.
i just think its time we move our separate ways now, we just want different things in our lives right now, and thats perfectly healthy.
If our paths happen to cross again in 5+ years, then I hope you can find it in your heart to accept me then. but always know i will welcome you with open arms.
yours,
matt
:cry:

 

[Ashers]

I think it's 16 points for the OOSer. When I interviewed (in Jan 2005), the dean told me I was lucky I was instate because if I was OOS, I wouldn't have had enough points. I had 14.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Thanks alot for the kind post. I'm an OOS applicant and was fortunate enough to receive an interview invite.

Can I ask why you decided not to apply to JABSOM?

Thanks!

I live in Hawaii and paid tuition as a resident. But, for the medical school, I'm not a resident of Hawaii. Thus, I'd need 16 points to be even considered for an interview. It's kind of hard to get 16 points....very hard.

 

[medking]

I think it's 16 points for the OOSer. When I interviewed (in Jan 2005), the dean told me I was lucky I was instate because if I was OOS, I wouldn't have had enough points. I had 14.

Ashers: are you attending JABSOM right now? If so, how do you like/dislike the PBL curriculum? What other things about JABSOM do you like/dislike.

Thanks alot!

Edit: Nevermind, I didnt see the MCW 2009 at the bottom =)

How do you like MCW btw?

 

[Ashers]

Ashers: are you attending JABSOM right now? If so, how do you like/dislike the PBL curriculum? What other things about JABSOM do you like/dislike.

Thanks alot!

Edit: Nevermind, I didnt see the MCW 2009 at the bottom =)

How do you like MCW btw?

I love MCW -- the main thing I don't like about it is the cold winter weather. I didn't go to JABSOM because I didn't like the PBL curriculum, and I don't like Oahu (I'm from a neighbor island). After I interviewed there, I wanted to be rejected, but it was the one school I got to which I was outright accepted.

 

[medking]

I love MCW -- the main thing I don't like about it is the cold winter weather. I didn't go to JABSOM because I didn't like the PBL curriculum, and I don't like Oahu (I'm from a neighbor island). After I interviewed there, I wanted to be rejected, but it was the one school I got to which I was outright accepted.

What did you not like about the PBL curriculum? Was it things you saw while on the tour? (I ask this because I would imagine that you already knew that JABSOM is PBL before you applied there)

Thanks for answering my questions, Ashers!

 

[Ashers]

What did you not like about the PBL curriculum? Was it things you saw while on the tour? (I ask this because I would imagine that you already knew that JABSOM is PBL before you applied there)

Thanks for answering my questions, Ashers!

It's basically ALL PBL... the dean said 95% with 1 lecture a week your first year for basic sciences. I learn best in lecture. I've loathed every single PBL/small group session I've had in the 1st two years of med school. I can't imagine that being the entire curriculum.

I'm not sure that I realized that UH was all PBL until the interview. I think I knew it had some when I applied because I think I had to write an essay about it for the secondary. I never had a tour of the campus. I applied there because it was my state school and my dad made me even though I knew I had no desire to stay in Hawaii.

During the interviews was when the PBL curriculum was explained to me by my interviewers, and after each interview, I felt less and less like I wanted to go there, even if it was way cheaper than any other school I applied to.

One of my friends from high school went there and said she didn't mind the PBL, but she would've liked lectures.

Edit: Some people like it, and some don't. I just know my learning style, and I knew PBL wouldn't have been good for me.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

so what is exactly is PBL, aside from being an acronym for Problem Based Learning?
what other schools participate in it?

 

[mvenus929]

so what is exactly is PBL, aside from being an acronym for Problem Based Learning?
what other schools participate in it?

A couple NYC schools have it. I believe Mt. Sinai and Cornell both do, but don't quote me on that... I'm horrible with remembering names.

It's basically that you work in small groups on a certain problem, and that's how you learn. So you're given patients, and asked to diagnose them based on what you've learned. Most schools that have PBL have it in some combination with lectures, so you apply the information you learned in lecture in the small groups.

 

[ConditionGrey]

.

 

[surfstarj]

OK. So what if your great grandmother, great grandfather, grandmother and father were all born there. Family has a long history there including Hawaii state sports records and owning property for almost a century on Maui and Oahu. Some of your family lives there but you do not any longer...and you want to stay there?

I graduated from an Ivy and don't really know how many points I'd have...but I am not considered a resident because I do not live there (only my family does).

Should I write a letter or...

😕

 

[DrMattOglesby]

OK. So what if your great grandmother, great grandfather, grandmother and father were all born there. Family has a long history there including Hawaii state sports records and owning property for almost a century on Maui and Oahu. Some of your family lives there but you do not any longer...and you want to stay there?

I graduated from an Ivy and don't really know how many points I'd have...but I am not considered a resident because I do not live there (only my family does).

Should I write a letter or...

😕

wow. i wish i had that kind of ties to the state!
you should DEF right a letter!
maybe in a few years we will end up working alongside one another in the same hospital =] i plan on heading out to hawaii once my medical credentials are completed.

ps: by the way, i also own land out in hawaii (the big island) and im chamarro...maybe there is hope to get into their post bac program????

 

[Ashers]

In case you guys are interested. Here's a recent article from the Maui News regarding the plight of some of the doctors. The hospital on Maui isn't even big enough to cover the entire population, and the state won't let anyone build another hospital. Good times over there. This is also one of the many reasons I won't be going home once I'm done with training.

Quality of life for patients, doctors concern at forum

 

[DrMattOglesby]

In case you guys are interested. Here's a recent article from the Maui News regarding the plight of some of the doctors. The hospital on Maui isn't even big enough to cover the entire population, and the state won't let anyone build another hospital. Good times over there. This is also one of the many reasons I won't be going home once I'm done with training.

Quality of life for patients, doctors concern at forum

so why not just open up a private practice???

 

[gaki]

so why not just open up a private practice???

That is what I plan to do, if I ever get back there. It seems working in a hospital/clinic and having a private practice is the way to go.

plus.. when no one wants to work in rural areas in Hawaii.. isn't that when our bleedin' doctor hearts are supposed to kick in and want to help them more 😛 or is that just for resumes?🙁

 

[ocwaveoc]

PBL requires you to spend time LOOKING for information. A LOT of time is spent on LOOKING. You also depend on your group members to give you information on the topics you are on.

So, the question is, do you want to spend time looking for stuff to learn? Another question is do you want to depend on med students to tell you about what you need to know about the human body?

In my opinion, PBL is a good way for schools to save money. It seems like it'd take less faculty to run the program. Someone correct me if this is incorrect.

Another point....I'm from California and have lived in Hawaii for 3 years. I feel that unless you have a VERY laid back and are NEVER in a hurry, you'd get frustrated living in Hawaii. The aloha spirit can be viewed in various ways. First, you can view it as a welcoming spirit in which people are friendly, accepting, forgiving etc..... Another way is that people have little accountability. What does that mean? You can make little mistakes to large ones and you will likely not suffer ANY type of negative consequence. For an example, the way people drive here is so inefficient. I once saw a lady who couldn't stop in time at an intersection and ended up in the middle of the intersection. She just stayed there instead of backing up....until the light changed green for her again. NO ONE HONKED AT HER. This type of stuff and more minor things that are just as stupid happen about 3-4 times during my 3.5 mile drive to University of Hawaii. There is a laundry list of stuff which most of the "mainlanders" complain about behind the locals' backs.....in regards to their "backwardness". It truly is amazing how different people are here. It's this lack of accountability that causes "laid back attitude"...you can mess up but there will be either no or very little negative consequence that inefficiency is everywhere.

To sum up, what Hawaii has going for itself is nature.....beautiful mountains ,beaches and ocean wild life. Anything (in my experience ANYTHING) that has to do with people are really third rate. I realized how well run California is by living in Hawaii. It's the people of Hawaii that make this place a frustrating place to live. Oh another example.....I see this almost everyday. There'd be like 7 cars front to back on a lane and the car in front slows down to make a right turn. I see non of the cars behind that car making lane changes to the empty lane to pass. Everyone just stays in that crowded lane where the car in front is slowing down. A classic Hawaiian mentality that is reflective even in other parts of life. Do you want to deal with this in the hospitals you'll be rotating in?

The surf is amazing though.....awesome waves and warm waters.......

 

[Bartelby]

In case you guys are interested. Here's a recent article from the Maui News regarding the plight of some of the doctors. The hospital on Maui isn't even big enough to cover the entire population, and the state won't let anyone build another hospital. Good times over there. This is also one of the many reasons I won't be going home once I'm done with training.

Quality of life for patients, doctors concern at forum

Wow... Hawaii has a physician shortage? I always thought landing a job in a place like that would be very competitive. Do the doctors there (as hinted at by the article) work very long hours with low pay? I have actually thought about working in Hawaii, basically because I would like to live in a tropical paradise that is still a part of the US. If conditions are really bad, though, it might not be worth it.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Wow... Hawaii has a physician shortage? I always thought landing a job in a place like that would be very competitive. Do the doctors there (as hinted at by the article) work very long hours with low pay? I have actually thought about working in Hawaii, basically because I would like to live in a tropical paradise that is still a part of the US. If conditions are really bad, though, it might not be worth it.

OK, let me put it this way. I work in the healthcare field. When coming to Hawaii, I took a 15% pay cut. The cost of living in Hawaii is very high. For an example, a half gallon of orange juice is $6. Sure, when they are on sale, or if you buy the generic brands, they are less expensive. So, when you combine the two, it's very difficult to have the standard of living you had when you were on the mainland. I didn't think 15% pay cut and higher cost of living would mount to much if I become a bit more frugal. But, it did. Another contributing factor is that housing in Hawaii is very, very old. Most of the buildings, apartments and houses were built back in the 50's and the 60's. That's not too much of an issue if the people of Hawaii are good at maintenance and keep up the building quality. They don't. Most houses don't have air conditioning and most new houses don't get built with a/c, which is baffling considering the humidity here. Why is this so? My theory is that most people of Hawaii do not make much money since vast majority (more so than the mainland) don't get college degrees. When you live in a society of non college educated people, people make less money. Hence, there is less money to go around in public service, maintenance and government. In Hawaii, when people ask each other which school they went to, they refer to high school, not college. Vast majority of cops in Hawaii have to use their own vehicles for patrolling. In three years I haven't seen a nicely trimmed, all green patch of grass area. Most parks and house front lawns have lots of weed or have a lot of patches of dead grass and not trimmed well. This is the real Hawaii. I think it all goes back to people just not having enough money to fund the government to perform these public services.....all because people are less educated than in other parts of the US.

I can see why physicians leave Hawaii. As the article stated, reimbursement by the insurance for the same service is lower than on the mainland. And the cost of living is high. I know many physicians who live in apartments (not nice) and in condos. If you don't mind it, by all means practice here.

 

[inaminute]

Vast majority of cops in Hawaii have to use their own vehicles for patrolling.

used to be the cops could drive "unmarked cars" that belonged to the law enforcement agencies 24/7 at no personal expense IF the cop using the car agreed to be available if needed, even if off-duty----maybe you're seeing them using vehicles they don't own themselves under this arrangement...


as for the rest of what you have said, "Hawaiian time" is legendary. If you get stressed by people not getting stressed, Hawaii isn't for you.