If you can only pick one....

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What would you call your DPM occupation?

  • Physician

    Votes: 3 7.3%

  • Surgeon

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Podiatrist

    Votes: 32 78.0%

  • Doctor

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Total voters
    41
Feli

Feli

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What would you pick? If you had to list occupation for your badge or application or form or whatever?

You can pick on accuracy, what you think sounds best, what you think gets you noticed most, what it says on your badge, what it says on your website, whatever.

I was just thinking of this today as I read the "Occupation _____________" part of my intake forms, when a few of my patients were other local docs... and another DPM. The MDs both put "physician," and I will plead the 5th on what the DPM put.

I think we all know what APMA and some of the podiatry orgs want to push, and we know a lot of the podiatry schools' students like to say "med school" and "medical student," but what do we actually say or identify? 🙂
 
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I heard classmates and even some attendings tell patients they went to med school. You don’t hear dentists or optometrists saying they went to med school. You are a podiatrist, own it.
 
Western school of podiatric medicine
Temple university podiatric medicine
California school podiatric medicine
New York college podiatric medicine
Midwestern university podiatric medicine
Barry U college podiatric medicine
Scholl college podaitric medicine
DMU college podiatric medicine (and surgery)
KSU college podiatric medicine
Lake Eerie college podiatric medicine



.......pretty sure we went/go to podiatric medical school. Meaning were podiatrists. Unless you go to DMU then youre also a surgeon.
 
Had no intention of being an MD or DO. Podiatry wasn’t my fallback. I went into it from the get go so I’m a podiatrist. Straight from college to podiatry for me.

Also fun fact: in reality your patients have so many doctors they don’t even know your name until an MA tells them who they’re about to see until 2 minutes before you walk in even with your name plastered everywhere in the office, on the intake forms, and with a referral.
 
I introduce myself as "Hi my name is 'name' and (sometimes) I'm a podiatrist. Nice to meet you!" No mention of doctor, no podiatric physician/surgeon, none of that glamour BS. I'm a podiatrist (foot and ankle specialist) and patients know who I am. That's why they came to see me. Keep it simple.
 
I'm a podiatrist, and I'll never not be one. Like a scarlet letter P on my chest.

I remember 10 years ago ACFAS was telling us to introduce ourselves as foot and ankle surgeons. I tried it for a very short while. Here's how that went:
Me: I'm Dr Smasher, the foot and ankle surgeon
Pt: you're an orthopedic surgeon?
Me: no I'm a foot and ankle surgeon
Pt: you're a podiatrist?
Me: no I'm a foot and ankle surgeon
 
Podiatrist. It's specific. No vague I'm a physician or none of that braggodocious I'm a foot and ankle surgeon.

I'm a goddamn podiatrist. The end. Anyone who has a problem with me saying that can ligma
 
EthylMethylMan said:
From the outside looking in, it always seemed fair to me to call you guys physicians. If someone’s getting surgical training, it’s hard for me to not consider that person a physician.

(Yeah, I’m aware the training quality is highly variable.)
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I agree, but it'd further specify to podiatry physician
 
Homo sapien said:
Podiatrist. It's specific. No vague I'm a physician or none of that braggodocious I'm a foot and ankle surgeon.

I'm a goddamn podiatrist. The end. Anyone who has a problem with me saying that can ligma
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When there's any type of responsibility that needs to be taken or knowledge shown I just say I'm just a dumb podiatrist
 
I think it’s fair to be considered a physician when we see patients independently, do surgery and can even admit patients to the hospital in some circumstances. The only real difference at that point is the letters behind our name as long as you stay within scope.

All that being said, podiatrists should not pretend or imply they are orthopedists, any other kind of doctor or that they went to medical school. It’s just sad and makes us look pathetic when pods do this.
 
Podstar said:
All MD, DO, and DPM badges at my hospital say physician. I voted podiatrist though.
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1750422757081.png
 
On a related note, I recently had a bunion consultation with a guy so I asked him about his work, does he need to stand/walk around a lot, like we do for everyone. He was fit and dressed nice, collared shirt, good shoes, but was a really down-to-earth, approachable human. On his intake form he put that he was a "store manager." So I asked for details, and he mentioned something about receiving some recognition for business leadership, and he only brought it up because he had to wear a suit and dress shoes that hurt his bunions for the event, otherwise he downplayed it completely. We concluded the visit and I was curious what he was talking about, so I looked up the award he was talking about.

Turns out, he's a corporate CEO of a brand of foods that you probably haven't heard of. But it strikes me how he totally understated his role. I think there's wisdom in that. It avoids unwanted attention, people treat you like an average joe. So yeah, I'm just a humble podiatrist, nothing else.
 
Adam Smasher said:
... he totally understated his role. I think there's wisdom in that. It avoids unwanted attention, people treat you like an average joe. So yeah, I'm just a humble podiatrist, nothing else.
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Rule 21

48laws-of-power.blogspot.com

Law 21: Play a Sucker to Catch a Sucker, Seem Dumber than your Mark

No one likes feeling stupider than the next person. The trick, then, is to make your victims feel smart—and not just smart, but smarter t...
48laws-of-power.blogspot.com 48laws-of-power.blogspot.com

I've seen many very successful pods (and people in general) do this. 😎
 
Even the cesspool that is Reddit seems massively pro-pod. I think the general consensus is if you want to say podiatrist you’re never wrong, and if you want to say doctor, everybody is cool with it. You’re certainly not an online diploma mill DNP/alphabet soup.

Some optometrists think they can replace my cohort by taking a weekend procedures course from another optometrist who took that course. That’s not residency.

And don’t worry, ortho probably says I’m not a surgeon, either.
 
eyeeye_captain said:
Even the cesspool that is Reddit seems massively pro-pod. I think the general consensus is if you want to say podiatrist you’re never wrong, and if you want to say doctor, everybody is cool with it. You’re certainly not an online diploma mill DNP/alphabet soup.

Some optometrists think they can replace my cohort by taking a weekend procedures course from another optometrist who took that course. That’s not residency.

And don’t worry, ortho probably says I’m not a surgeon, either.
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Not to derail the thread, but I saw an optometry office dubbing themselves “optometric physicians”. I was shocked at the unearned cojones.
 
Adam Smasher said:
On a related note, I recently had a bunion consultation with a guy so I asked him about his work, does he need to stand/walk around a lot, like we do for everyone. He was fit and dressed nice, collared shirt, good shoes, but was a really down-to-earth, approachable human. On his intake form he put that he was a "store manager." So I asked for details, and he mentioned something about receiving some recognition for business leadership, and he only brought it up because he had to wear a suit and dress shoes that hurt his bunions for the event, otherwise he downplayed it completely. We concluded the visit and I was curious what he was talking about, so I looked up the award he was talking about.

Turns out, he's a corporate CEO of a brand of foods that you probably haven't heard of. But it strikes me how he totally understated his role. I think there's wisdom in that. It avoids unwanted attention, people treat you like an average joe. So yeah, I'm just a humble podiatrist, nothing else.
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Yeah but you are also a podiatrist.
 
I think its appropriate for us to call ourselves podiatrists - its what we are, it best reflects our training and expertise and ability, and jokingly - it generates referrals. Of my 2 hospitals that I spend time at - one badge just says "Podiatrist". The other on 3 separate lines says "DPM", "Podiatrist", "Physician". Interestingly the hospital that says all 3 would be the kind of place that should be anti-podiatrist.

That said - it is interesting to me that almost no one chose physician. There are 3 physician votes right now and I don't believe there were any for the first few day. We are obviously technically legally physicians according to Medicare/social security. I wonder if we shouldn't be more "aspirational" and should want to identify as physicians. Why do we reject what we are... There's 31 votes right now. That's not just the hated core 10 posters.

I guess I'd like to live in a world where when a person says:
What do you do?
I'm a physician.
What's your specialty?
Podiatry.
That it never crosses anyone's mind that the patient is thinking "not a real doctor" and the podiatrist is thinking "he thinks I'm not a real doctor".

And you could say - that's your problem, that's your mind devaluing yourself, you need to have pride and confidence and what not.

But I bring you back to the meme thread - my parents have never said "podiatry school". Our son's in "medical school". What does your son do - "he's a foot and ankle surgeon". They won't say the P word. Through podiatry school my classmates all said "medical school".

They don't say it because they know its not the same.

I don't hate podiatry. My life is mostly pretty good. What I think most people here want is for podiatry to be what they were sold that it would be.
 
Bored Snorlax said:
Hey somebody’s gotta keep Dr. Scholl in business. I picked surgeon bc my ego needs more than just being called “the guy who looks at toenails and bunions”
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If podiatry were a designated MD specialty (kinda like ENT, uro, ophtho, etc), I still think it'd be interesting to how popular it'd be - or not be - in the match. I doubt it's approach derm or plastics or ophtho in popularity, but it would have its upside: "lifestyle" hours and few emergencies (ortho and gen surg could take the F&A trauma and pus/wounds).

I have a feeling the MDs would be much smarter than DPMs are, though. I'd imagine they'd graduate ~300 or fewer podiatrists per year (kina analagous to ENT, uro, etc). The'd just use nail techs or RNs seeing half the patients, and have the docs doing the other half that are F&A surgical and procedural patient visits. You simply wouldn't have the glut of $200k and under podiatrists that we have now... and alll the issue that arise due to pretty huge oversupply.

heybrother said:
...Through podiatry school my classmates all said "medical school". ...
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Well you went to DMU, where half the class was fairly close - or even very close - to getting into DO school. So, a lot of them want to think they did? I noticed that "medical school" overplay bigtime when I was out on clerkships; I sometimes thought I was in the wrong morning rounds circle with all those "medical student"s. 🙂

At most podiatry schools, hardly anybody was anywhere near MD school Mcat/gpa, so it's easier to say the P-word. 😛
 
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Feli said:
Well you went to DMU, where half the class was fairly close - or even very close - to getting into DO school. So, a lot of them want to think they did? I noticed that "medical school" overplay bigtime when I was out on clerkships; I sometimes thought I was in the wrong morning rounds circle with all those "medical student"s. 🙂

At most podiatry schools, hardly anybody was anywhere near MD school Mcat/gpa, so it's easier to say the P-word. 😛
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I think the defining trait of a lot of my classmates is they have been more successful than their undergrad GPA / MCAT would suggest. Last I checked, there is no podiatry school where the overall MCAT average exceeds the 50%th percentile. No podiatry school has an MD/DO level MCAT average. Over the last few years, I would look through my class on ABFAS. I know you associate this as a measure of success or competency. Most are certified now - somewhat an explosion over the last few years. I had a stretch where I thought "looks like no one has to get ABFAS" and then ultimately most did. Even people who struggled academically are certified. We talk on here about having that classmate who shouldn't be a doctor, but that really didn't apply to many of my class and some of my class have done phenomenally well. They have great jobs in desireable cities. Even non-ABFAS people often have great careers. Theoretically their MCAT would anecdotally suggest they shouldn't have finished first year. (random aside - Dr. Smith at DMU historically wrote about correlation of MCAT/GPA to measures of success in podiatry.

This is an anecdote, but one of my classmates told me they never studied for the MCAT, got a bad score, didn't care, got into DMU, crushed it as a student, got a killer residency, and are fully certified now. Who loses in this story?

DMU. Maybe even podiatry as a whole.

Reading the "Our House is on Fire" article - the leadership of this profession now believes that podiatry's problem is actually marketing. That's ridiculous, but let's just go with it a second. The low MCAT that podiatry schools accept is a problem. It signals to future students that something is very wrong in the house of podiatry. The student in question contributed to lowering DMUs MCAT average even though they've been a great contributor to the school, the profession etc. They have furthered the presumption that podiatry takes anyone even though they are ultimately a great podiatrist. The schools set low admission standards and the students adapted their behavior accordingly even though they had it within them to present a stronger level of competency that the school could have put out there to market themself.

Its less relevant than when people look up the profession and the pay seems really low, but I still think its something that makes students cringe. Like when you speak to a podiatry school and they seem straight desperate or when they accept you without an interview.

Smith, K. (2014). The predictive validity of pre-admission measures on podiatric medical school performance. PhD dissertation, University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Retrieved from The Predictive Validity of Pre-Admission Measures on Podiatric Medical School Performance
 
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I’ve known plenty of DPMs that were smart enough to have gone MD or DO if they wanted. Usually it’s the “family business” guys. But not always.

Some people just don’t want to deal with the bs of managing the entire body or worrying about ending up in a specialty they have no interest in.
 
Hybrocure said:
I’ve known plenty of DPMs that were smart enough to have gone MD or DO if they wanted. Usually it’s the “family business” guys. But not always.

Some people just don’t want to deal with the bs of managing the entire body or worrying about ending up in a specialty they have no interest in.
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Lol no
 
I had stats to go to a lower tier MD school but had already made up my mind about podiatry and didn’t want to pay for the application and interviewing process for medical school in addition to podiatry. I personally knew and worked for a podiatrist as an MA before I went to school and saw how well he was doing. He let it slip once he was making well over 300k a year, an unfathomable amount of money to me at the time having grown up lower middle class. Even housesat for him a couple of times in his humongous house.

I didn’t have an inkling about any of the politics or other problems podiatry has. Also had no clue how easy it was to get into podiatry school at the time. I remember being super nervous I might not get in with 508 MCAT applying and interviewing at some of the first available interview dates in the cycle lol.

Overall I’m glad with my choice. Podiatry has its problems but so does every profession. I was one of the top podiatry students and got a ton of scholarships but probably would have been middle or lower part of the pack in medical school. I got a pretty good paying job starting out and have better options going forward if I move back to my hometown.

Knowing what I know now, if I were to do something else I would hopefully get into med school and tried for radiology. But I do enjoy what I do and feel like I’m helping people every day.
 
Nah man, if you did radio you would be one of the first specialties to have their job taken by AI
 
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heybrother said:
I think the defining trait of a lot of my classmates is they have been more successful than their undergrad GPA / MCAT would suggest. Last I checked, there is no podiatry school where the overall MCAT average exceeds the 50%th percentile. No podiatry school has an MD/DO level MCAT average. Over the last few years, I would look through my class on ABFAS. I know you associate this as a measure of success or competency. Most are certified now - somewhat an explosion over the last few years. I had a stretch where I thought "looks like no one has to get ABFAS" and then ultimately most did. Even people who struggled academically are certified. We talk on here about having that classmate who shouldn't be a doctor, but that really didn't apply to many of my class and some of my class have done phenomenally well. They have great jobs in desireable cities. Even non-ABFAS people often have great careers. Theoretically their MCAT would anecdotally suggest they shouldn't have finished first year. (random aside - Dr. Smith at DMU historically wrote about correlation of MCAT/GPA to measures of success in podiatry.

This is an anecdote, but one of my classmates told me they never studied for the MCAT, got a bad score, didn't care, got into DMU, crushed it as a student, got a killer residency, and are fully certified now. Who loses in this story?

DMU. Maybe even podiatry as a whole.

Reading the "Our House is on Fire" article - the leadership of this profession now believes that podiatry's problem is actually marketing. That's ridiculous, but let's just go with it a second. The low MCAT that podiatry schools accept is a problem. It signals to future students that something is very wrong in the house of podiatry. The student in question contributed to lowering DMUs MCAT average even though they've been a great contributor to the school, the profession etc. They have furthered the presumption that podiatry takes anyone even though they are ultimately a great podiatrist. The schools set low admission standards and the students adapted their behavior accordingly even though they had it within them to present a stronger level of competency that the school could have put out there to market themself.

Its less relevant than when people look up the profession and the pay seems really low, but I still think its something that makes students cringe. Like when you speak to a podiatry school and they seem straight desperate or when they accept you without an interview.

Smith, K. (2014). The predictive validity of pre-admission measures on podiatric medical school performance. PhD dissertation, University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Retrieved from The Predictive Validity of Pre-Admission Measures on Podiatric Medical School Performance
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Podiatry is a backup plan for many that wanted to go MD/DO but didn't get in because they didn't have the stats (GPA, MCAT, research, etc.) for it. Hence, the want (and need/must) to be called a "doctor" is still achievable through podiatry medical school...and ohh...wait for it...to be a surgeon. So the schools are doing whatever they can to try and lure these types of students by advertising as such (competitive salary, guaranteed to be a surgeon, specialization on day one). We get what we paid for. When they finally go through the schooling and residency (and now fellowship), they want all the associated titles (doctor, physician, foot and ankle surgeon) and all the extra alphabet soup mixtures you can imagine on LinkedIn (i.e. foot and ankle orthoplastic surgeon), but in reality they're just a podiatrist. Just say the P word. Embrace it.
 
billBOB213 said:
Nah man, if you did radio you would be one of the first specialties to have their job taken by AI
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I don’t think it will happen anytime soon, but you never know. If you ask a radiologist they say it will never happen.

At my hospital every study I order has to be read by a radiologist and they miss things often. Found out that they have radiology PAs now… I’ve thought about calling them to see if they want me to read all their foot and ankle films.
 
Hybrocure said:
...plenty of DPMs that were smart enough to have gone MD or DO if they wanted...

...The top 10 percent of any school could’ve gotten into MD or DO school easily.
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I don't know... I have never bought this. Not even when I started pod school. Still do not.
Some of the very top DPM students *might* have been able get DO consideration with a Mcat re-study/retake or a SMP degree or whatever. Might.

I simply don't believe the pod students who say they got into DO or MD school or whatever. It just doesn't make sense. Maybe they were waitlisted? We did have a few in our class who had flunked out at Caribb MD schools (I think most of them flunked out or went to 5yr program in pod also). Personally, I didn't even apply to MD as I knew my Mcat was bottom end accept range yet I had no chance as my gpa was crap as I partied a ton in undergrad. 😉

...I think 95% of podiatry students are there as a backup (to med/dent/vet/etc). We see those people tearing through SDN all the time... pre med, then pre dent, then change to pharma or pod or whatever. And yes, maybe 4% of pod students are there because their parent is a pod and they have a lucrative practice to step into right after residency, yes. (but plenty of DPMs have kids who go to med school also... I know of more than a few DPM kids who are ortho, cardiologist, rad, onco, etc etc).

heybrother said:
... No podiatry school has an MD/DO level MCAT average....
...Dr. Smith at DMU historically wrote about correlation of MCAT/GPA to measures of success in podiatry. ...
Click to expand...
Yes, 100%. It's not a hard and fast rule, but the higher gpa/mcat people will generally do better in pod school, med school, etc. Specific to pod school, I'm sure people with higher Mcat tend to do better on boards/match/outcomes you mentioned. DMU does pretty often best on matric stats... and consequently well in match.

I was just saying above that DMU was the one that consistently did the "medical student" and "medical school" thing (AZ was brand new back then, but maybe they do it now also). I have no idea if they are told to do that by faculty or admins... or if it is/was just their pod student culture. It's inconsequential in the end, but it was a 'wtf' moment out on rotations as the other Temple, Scholl, etc students just say 'pod school' and 'podiatry' regularly.

...At the end of the day, we can call ourselves whatever we like. The things we need for podiatrists remain the same:
Lower tuition.
Fewer schools/grads.
Higher quality and more uniform residency experience for grads.
[better jobs or better insurance pays naturally follow if those things are in place]

This is a formula of demand+training+quality that works well for some professions, and other ones do a poor job of it.
As it sits now, we have some star podiatry grads from all of the schools (more from some than others), but we have a lot of DPMs out there with questionable surgical training, trouble finding/keeping good jobs, opting for rural or govt employ or even non-op due to the saturation, major career satisfaction, etc. It's a tough job market, the debt is huge, and the training/results are quite varied. Unless some things change, it'll stay that way regardless of "podiatrist" or "foot and ankle surgeon" or "med school" or "fellowship." 🤠
 
I’ve been thinking a lot about what it means to be a podiatrist these days. These conversations always circle back to the same thing. It’s not just about what we do. It’s about how we’re seen by patients, peers, families, and even by ourselves. The real issue isn’t what’s printed on our badges. It’s the gap between our training and what people actually know about podiatry.

Most people outside our field have no idea what we actually do. You’ll hear everything from "they cut toenails" to "they fix bunions." Few realize we’re trained to perform advanced reconstructive foot and ankle surgery, TARs, manage complex wounds, and treat conditions that can change lives. Our education, training, and scope have grown dramatically, but public perception hasn’t kept up. That’s on us for letting our professional identity drift. This isn’t a PR problem. It’s a structural one. Some of the biggest barriers are internal. Too often we get caught up in alphabet soup, comparing credentials and trying to look legitimate instead of building real legitimacy. Credibility comes from consistently delivering excellent patient care, supporting each other, and raising standards for the profession.

Take the recent push for DPM students to take the USMLE. On paper, it sounds bold and like a step toward parity. In reality, it was more about appearances than actual change. Without stronger educational standards, better hospital integration, unified accreditation, and broader public awareness, it’s just chasing recognition instead of earning it. Medicine values patient outcomes and the systems that support them, not just who took which test. Without that foundation, it won’t last.

We already have a proven roadmap for progress. Look at the DOs. They didn’t just claim they were equal. They proved it. They took the same exams, worked in the same hospitals, and delivered real results. Over time, public perception shifted because they showed up and performed.

That’s what counts. How the world sees us shapes our opportunities. It affects privileges, referrals, salaries, and most importantly, patient trust. We can’t just ask for respect. We have to earn it and own our story.

If you carry yourself like you belong in the waiting room, don’t be surprised when the world never invites you into the operating room. Until the system catches up, the smartest thing we can do is own the title of podiatrist/podiatric surgeon and let our actions every day redefine what it means. Progress is built on consistency, professionalism, and patient outcomes. The work we do and the impact we make move our profession forward and earn the respect we deserve.

And if we do this right, maybe next Thanksgiving I’ll finally get asked about surgical breakthroughs instead of examining Aunt Gertrude’s crusty toenails before dessert.
 
Bored Snorlax said:
...You’ll hear everything from "they cut toenails" to "they fix bunions." Few realize we’re trained to perform advanced reconstructive foot and ankle surgery, TARs, manage complex wounds, and treat conditions that can change lives. Our education, training, and scope have grown dramatically, but public perception hasn’t kept up. That’s on us for letting our professional identity drift. This isn’t a PR problem. It’s a structural one. Some of the biggest barriers are internal. ...
Click to expand...
This is simply an issue that podiatry has greatly oversupplied the demand for "foot and ankle surgeon"... when the real demand is for RFC and to a lesser extent, for wound care that MDs don't want to do. It gets more oversupplied each year as most DPMs retiring are C&C and most graduating want to be surgeons. We've flooded the market, no matter what perception/respect might be. That is the start and the end of it.

There is absolutely no way it's logical that MDs graduate usually 60-70 F&A orthos per year (who nearly all end up in metro cities and are very busy and well paid), and podiatry graduates 600+ "foot and ankle surgeons" in many years (many of whom struggle for a good job or take a location/type of job they don't love). Sure, most of the DPMs don't have the skills/training they're claiming on LinkedIn or whatever and won't be doing the big RRA, but even if most of them did, there is just no way there is a need for that so many times over and in every TinyTown, USA! Perception gets some refers or some office visits, but it doesn't make more cases/patients suddenly appear wanting flatfoot recon and forefoot slam and ankle fusions... it doesn't make many more people suddenly tear their Achilles or smash their calc.

Apma and others looooove to preach that perception and marketing and branding and lingo will make a better future, but as someone who gets the F&A refers for everything with no ortho around, I will tell you 1000% that many more people need nail care and wart treatments - as opposed to ankle scope/stab or forefoot slam. I have a fairly long waitlist for most things, do full scope podiatry, little local competition, but you still need to do what patient population needs. That is just reality.

...So, with the huge surplus of DPM "surgeon" now, you have what you see out in the real world:
The vast majority of private practice DPMs do a lot of nails/RFC to make ends meet (likely some wound care also).
Vast majority of hospital DPMs do mostly wound/amp care to hit wRVUs and make ends meet (likely RFC also).
None of them have as many bunions or ankle fx as they may like or probably thought they'd have during school or training.
We have the rare DPMs whose job/situ gets a fair bit of recon/trauma, but most of them will still do RFC or wounds to fill the schedule.

Again, we missed the boat with not having the primary pod and surgical pod route (dent model). The uber rare DPMs who do a high amount of surgery have carved niches where they do the surgery - or at least the big stuff - from dozens of other DPMs (via many refers from DPMs, their large group of DPMs feeds them, lecturing to gain DPM refers, etc).
 
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