If you could go back in time would you do it all over again?

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

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the only problem with this that aren't most O&G jobs in the Gulf Coast? Not everyone wants to work there just like not everyone wants to work in Los Angeles/New York. Whereas in medicine your options are literally the entire nation.

The only other profession I can think of that comes close to having a combination (key word being combination) of job security, demand, nationwide need and pay is accounting

I'm not sure if most jobs in Oil and Gas are in the gulf coast, but my former company had a refinery near Los Angelos and there are a few others in that area from what I remember. I have friends working at refineries in Washington state and the Midwest also.

Here's a map of oil refineries to give you an idea of geographical options. Refineries - Map : OilRefineryWatch.org

Here's one of just "high risk" chemical plants from Greenpeace (whatever that means)
Greenpeace

Here's an interactive map where you can select power plants, refineries, terminals etc, gives the complete energy picture.
United States - Maps - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

I think you'll find that the energy sector could land you just about anywhere you really want to be, granted not all of the energy sector pays as well as Oil and Gas, but even just Oil and Gas can get you near some pretty desirable locations.

 

[ProfMD]

I love how some people here who went into medicine in the 70s-80s think its the same game as being in medical school now. It's entirely different. All the relentless effort through undergrad and med school to do great. Still zero guarantee that I'll get the specialty I want. I suffer everyday to try to match into my desired specialty, invest huge boatloads of time money and effort. The psychological burden is much higher...and the game is entirely different.

How old do you think we are? I graduated med school in 2003 and most of the other "we love our job" crowd are about the same age or younger.

 

[Espadaleader]

Given the school I go to and virtually having no debt from scholarship (undergraduate, medical school, dual degree) I would do it again. If I was going to a Non top-20 school, with $200,000 or $300,000 of debt. Absolutely not. People always would say engineering, nursing etc. and I would get mad but you realize that you can make $80,000 to 6 figures in 6 years from HS versus 11. I am in clinic and I am seeing people in their mid-30s toil for scraps. Think about it, year off before med school, in med school for dual degree and 7 year surgery residency. It is rough. I am at a place where people can and do "match" into consulting, McKinsey etc. I want to practice medicine but not for all of my career.

 

[Anicetus]

I love how some people here who went into medicine in the 70s-80s think its the same game as being in medical school now. It's entirely different. All the relentless effort through undergrad and med school to do great. Still zero guarantee that I'll get the specialty I want. I suffer everyday to try to match into my desired specialty, invest huge boatloads of time money and effort. The psychological burden is much higher...and the game is entirely different.

This so much.

This next generation of doctors may be very different considering a good chunk of them may f***ing hate what they do because they either messed up on one exam (step 1) or they didn't get lucky in third year.

 

[iceman55]

Finishing up 3rd year, so I've got a long way to go but I'd do it again. There have been some rocky moments and a fair amount of times of high stress, but overall I've enjoyed it and finally seeing patients has reaffirmed that it's been worth it (so far). If I could go back in time I'd probably do more than a few things differently, but I'd still choose to pursue medicine.



I feel the exact opposite about the first paragraph. First year was fine, second year was miserable. I frequently had passive thoughts about dropping out, but convinced myself that things would get better after boards and pushed through. Third year has been amazing and it's been the first time in a long time where I can wake up and be excited about the day on a pretty regular basis. Even the days where I'm completely exhausted and just trudging through are better than the vast majority of second year.

I've got mixed feelings about the second paragraph. I think it would be great for some people to be able to focus more on the fields they're really interested in (our school has tracks which allow students to do this), but I think being exposed to a variety of fields can be really important too. Going into 3rd year, there were a few fields that I was sure I wouldn't be interested in. Turns out that two of those fields became my top 2 choices and the two fields I was planning on deciding between have completely fallen off my radar. If I didn't have to go through the rotations I thought were more BS during third year, I would have missed out on a field that ended up fascinating me.

If I recall correctly, you go to a DO school where all your third year grades are determined by solely based on shelf score...Yeah i would love that too, and it would make showing to rotations i don't care for much easier. In the majority of USMD schools evaluations make up a significant portion, half of the time at my school its equal to or worth more than shelf grade. Which is mainly why third year sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If I recall correctly, you go to a DO school where all your third year grades are determined by solely based on shelf score...Yeah i would love that too, and it would make showing to rotations i don't care for much easier. In the majority of USMD schools evaluations make up a significant portion, half of the time at my school its equal to or worth more than shelf grade. Which is mainly why third year sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

You realize clinical performance is more important than the grade on a test right?

 

[PhillyMed777]

How old do you think we are? I graduated med school in 2003 and most of the other "we love our job" crowd are about the same age or younger.

So you started med school in 1999. Long time ago.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So you started med school in 1999. Long time ago.

Yeah. We used leeches to bleed people with consumption back then.

 

[ProfMD]

So you started med school in 1999. Long time ago.

Yet decades after the 1970s-1980s that was thrown out there.

Not that much has changed in medical education.

 

[exsanguination]

Background: I'm an emergency medicine resident at a west coast program, PGY3 and one more year to go before I finish up and start (ideally) full time work as a community attending. I am a career switcher, had a previous job in CS/IT.

I wouldn't trade my decision for the world.

Everyday I get to come into work and meet people from every walk of life - rich and poor, white and black, foreign and domestic, man and woman and child. My skillset has made me a bad@ss in crisis situations, and this skill definitely bleeds over into real life. Being able to keep your wits about you while everybody is screaming their heads off is a LEARNED SKILL.

Yes the job is hard. I have to put up with administrative BS on a daily basis, an ever increasing amount of primary care type issues, and angry recalcitrant consultants. But man, when I walk out of a shift, I can say that the last 10 (well, realistically 12 with charting, another uncouth aspect of the job) hours were spent doing good in the world.

I think the happiest physicians who would "do it over again" are those that find balance between their work and personal life, but also find a higher meaning within medicine and attach themselves to it. Whether it be to further the field of medical basic science, or to be a highly trained patient advocate, or to find glory in looking Darwin and Death in the eye and saying "not today."

Also I got a scholarship to medical school and only have minimal undergrad debt. Maybe that's a bulk of it?

I'd also wager that many unhappy docs have no idea of what other jobs are like. This is a second career for me, I was previously in the computer science world with a similar "google" type job (as described in a post above me). Yes it had benefits, but at the end of the day I wasn't doing anything for the world. It wasn't fulfilling. My little widget that I was coding was there to make the company money, to enrich investors, and had little personal value to me.

One could make a cynical argument that some venues in medicine are there purely to do that. Make the hospital money, to enrich publicly traded CMGs, and that it's "just a job." But at the end of the day, physicians and nurses are pretty much the only people left in medicine that are there to protect the patients against the aforementioned.

I could go on, but I love my job and I'm a beat down, worn out, and probably partially depressed resident (if you believe the studies). I welcome all questions if there are any.

Good luck all!

 

[PhillyMed777]

Not that much has changed in medical education.

...but a lot has changed in the relative level of competition for competitive fields and the hurdles that one needs to clear to achieve them...

 

[Affiche]

...but a lot has changed in the relative level of competition for competitive fields and the hurdles that one needs to clear to achieve them...

not to mention the rising debt levels.

 

[aalamruad]

Lol y'all are so obsessed with salaries and debt

 

[Affiche]

Lol y'all are so obsessed with salaries and debt

You'd be ignorant not to pay close attention to it.

My best friend in med school is in so far deep after 1 year (undergrad debt + sticker price med school) that she couldn't drop out, even if she wanted to, and feels pressured to go into a higher paying specialty so she can pay it off. Loans are not Monopoly money lol you have to pay it back eventually, and the debt burden that medical students feel today isn't really that funny.

 

[aalamruad]

You'd be ignorant not to pay close attention to it.

My best friend in med school is in so far deep after 1 year (undergrad debt + sticker price med school) that she couldn't drop out, even if she wanted to, and feels pressured to go into a higher paying specialty so she can pay it off. Loans are not Monopoly money lol you have to pay it back eventually, and the debt burden that medical students feel today isn't really that funny.

I value money differently than you do, I don't necessarily think it's fair for you to say that makes me ignorant.

I'm taking loans out for the full COA at my med school, and I don't "feel" any debt burden. All it means is that I have to follow through with something I've committed to. Oh well, I know what I'm signing up for (and if I don't, that's my fault, so there's no reason to complain about debt either way).

I want to make enough to comfortably survive and to help my pop retire before he dies. Don't need a dime more. I can do that in a low-paying specialty with a ton of loans, I've seen it done and there's no reason I can't make it happen.

 

[Affiche]

I value money differently than you do, I don't necessarily think it's fair for you to say that makes me ignorant.

I'm taking loans out for the full COA at my med school, and I don't "feel" any debt burden. All it means is that I have to follow through with something I've committed to. Oh well, I know what I'm signing up for (and if I don't, that's my fault, so there's no reason to complain about debt either way).

I want to make enough to comfortably survive and to help my pop retire before he dies. Don't need a dime more. I can do that in a low-paying specialty with a ton of loans, I've seen it done and there's no reason I can't make it happen.

Haha well it's pretty easy to not "feel" the debt burden when you haven't had to pay any of it back yet lol.
But you do you.

 

[aalamruad]

Haha well it's pretty easy to not "feel" the debt burden when you haven't had to pay any of it back yet lol.
But you do you.

Really? Because you just said that a lot of med students, including your friend who's only an M1, feel a significant debt burden..

 

[Affiche]

Really? Because you just said that a lot of med students, including your friend who's only an M1, feel a significant debt burden..

Yeah, but she also worked for a few years before med school to pay back some of her undergrad loans, so she's fully aware of how it feels to owe money.

Look, take on as much debt as you want. I'm not here to convince you to make wiser financial decisions, I'm just saying it's naive and poor form to scoff at the stress students feel when they're literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

 

[aalamruad]

Yeah, but she also worked for a few years before med school to pay back some of her undergrad loans, so she's fully aware of how it feels to owe money.

Look, take on as much debt as you want. I'm not here to convince you to make wiser financial decisions, I'm just saying it's naive and poor form to scoff at the stress students feel when they're literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

Some of my closest family members and friends have had hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and I'll have almost $300k in debt in 4 years from now, so I get it. I'm not ignorant about what it's like living with debt.

You think it's naive of me to dismiss the stress people feel from med school debt. I think it's naive of people to commit to med school, knowing full well the debt they'll take on, and then complain about it. And I think it's naive of people to complain about money in general when they're making way more than most people in the US, even after paying thousands of dollars towards student loan bills every month. Agree to disagree

 

[Affiche]

Some of my closest family members and friends have had hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and I'll have almost $300k in debt in 4 years from now, so I get it. I'm not ignorant about what it's like living with debt.

You think it's naive of me to dismiss the stress people feel from med school debt. I think it's naive of people to commit to med school, knowing full well the debt they'll take on, and then complain about it. And I think it's naive of people to complain about money in general when they're making way more than most people in the US, even after paying thousands of dollars towards student loan bills every month. Agree to disagree

Like I said, you do you.

 

[YoungDoc25]

Fun fact- if you don't want to worry about loans, don't live in LA, Boston, NYC, etc post training.

Tons of FM jobs around me offering a takehome of 150k yearly with huge loan repayment packages (working 4.5 days a week). Neuro job for 400k and loan repayment. Neurosurgery for 7 figures and loan repayment. EM job for $250/hr plus loan repayment. I could go on and on. All in my city of 100k. You name it, it's out there. Too many people b*tch and moan about loans but refuse to live anywhere but a top 10 populated city. I don't feel bad for anyone that does that.

 

[aalamruad]

Like I said, you do you.

Will do

 

[Brorthopedic]

To summarize the thread so far:

- M1s commenting about how they wouldn't practice medicine again
- Teachers apparently are making bank
- Anyone with a verified physician/resident badge is out of touch with today's current medical education something something walking uphill both ways to go to class
- leeches to bleed people is a retired DO technique

 

[ProfMD]

...but a lot has changed in the relative level of competition for competitive fields and the hurdles that one needs to clear to achieve them...

not to mention the rising debt levels.

"Level of competition" is always in flux. What fields are competitive change with time as applicants priorities / interests change.

It is true that tuition is higher for med school, just as it is for all levels of education. However, there are also better repayment plans, as long as Congress does not give them the axe.

Point is, that many of us old codgers are not really all that far out from training (6 years for me this summer). So, we do actually have an idea of what med school is like. In academics, I also have an idea what the current residency application climate is like since I advise med students and interview applicants.

However, someone who is a current med student, particularly and M1, really has no idea what it is like to practice medicine, which is really what the main point of this thread is.

 

[Affiche]

"Level of competition" is always in flux. What fields are competitive change with time as applicants priorities / interests change.

It is true that tuition is higher for med school, just as it is for all levels of education. However, there are also better repayment plans, as long as Congress does not give them the axe.

Point is, that many of us old codgers are not really all that far out from training (6 years for me this summer). So, we do actually have an idea of what med school is like. In academics, I also have an idea what the current residency application climate is like since I advise med students and interview applicants.

However, someone who is a current med student, particularly and M1, really has no idea what it is like to practice medicine, which is really what the main point of this thread is.

Fair enough. Takeaway point being that this really is a delayed-gratification career, and you can see that in the shift in attitude between medical students in the thick of studying versus attendings who are removed from the early years and finally doing what they initially signed up for.

 

[azmang108]

If I could go back I'd have taken the caddy scholarship.

 

[Dro133]

Fun fact- if you don't want to worry about loans, don't live in LA, Boston, NYC, etc post training.

Tons of FM jobs around me offering a takehome of 150k yearly with huge loan repayment packages (working 4.5 days a week). Neuro job for 400k and loan repayment. Neurosurgery for 7 figures and loan repayment. EM job for $250/hr plus loan repayment. I could go on and on. All in my city of 100k. You name it, it's out there. Too many people b*tch and moan about loans but refuse to live anywhere but a top 10 populated city. I don't feel bad for anyone that does that.

Where?

 

[jw3600]

To summarize the thread so far:

- M1s commenting about how they wouldn't do practice medicine again
- Teachers apparently are making bank
- Anyone with a verified physician/resident badge is out of touch with today's current medical education something something walking uphill both ways to go to class
- leeches to bleed people is a retired DO technique

Better than premeds/pre clinical medical students arguing about new call length for interns.

 

[YoungDoc25]

Where?

Central southern state. And, from what I've been able to see, the states around me have similar opportunities. Just have to be willing to live where the money is until you pay your loans down. Then you're financially free to live/do as your please. Hell, I could live in a metro of 500k+ and ~800k in my state and drive 45 minutes or less to any of these jobs if I needed to live in the city. Or I could take the same job in the cities I'm talking about, and I would make ~50k-70k less. It's not a huge difference, but it's the difference in paying off your 200k+ loans in 3 years vs 7+.

Edit- Also have a posting that's a couple days old for working in a pain clinic 2 days a week (30-40 patients a day) for $185k a year.

 

[username456789]

Yet decades after the 1970s-1980s that was thrown out there.

Not that much has changed in medical education.

Except the price.

Tuition at my alma mater has approximately doubled in the last 15 years. Quadrupled in 25 years. Interest rates are through the roof, although they fluctuate (they are already a tad lower than when I borrowed in Med school).

Just throwing that out there. The financial landscape is very different, on average.

 

[Domperidone]

To summarize the thread so far:

- M1s commenting about how they wouldn't do practice medicine again
- Teachers apparently are making bank
- Anyone with a verified physician/resident badge is out of touch with today's current medical education something something walking uphill both ways to go to class
- leeches to bleed people is a retired DO technique

LOL..this made me giggle. so much.
(no disrespect intended towards commenters, I just thought it was funny..in an ironic/non-insulting way. like what OP really meant in wanting the POV of "current medical students, residents and attending physicians" is MS1 POVs.
I'm joking by the way, pls don't hurl things at me.

I think there are some solid & valid points. Jokes aside.
I too, did not particularly enjoy MS1 after the afterglow or rush of starting the process of learning medicine. It can be grind. It's still a grind sometimes. I was troubled by the notion of 'delayed gratification' as well. If there's any silver lining to being pre-clinical..is perhaps knowing that the career itself is nothing like the pre-clinical years. You'll never have to relive MS1 or MS2 again if you don't particularly care for it. (Unless you're repeating it).

Even with any regrets I have, right now, the pro's still outweigh the cons overall, and I'd still do it all over again. It's like how data points read on a graph, if you look up close there's a lot of variability but looking from a distance at all the teeny dots put together representing all my freaking days, overall, it's an upward trend in how I feel. It still gives me a high in a way that nothing else would, on my good days. It doesn't mean I don't get moments (or didn't get moments when I as student in the 2010s mind you 😛) where I don't think about why did I do this to myself?

I comfort myself by reminding myself that it's called 'work' for a reason (I know the saying goes that if you love what you do, it shouldnt' feel like work. lol I just wouldn't agree with it entirely, at least not right now, given all the admin/paperwork-y side to things).

Trouble is that it's such a subjective thing. Measuring happiness.
There's so many variables or factors and it depends on a particular individual's set of circumstances.
(finances, family etc. you have to be really fortunate for things to line up to allow for this career choice to work truly).

I liked @WhippleWhileWeWork's thread,
(Sorry did some stalking because I thought your story was intriguing)
I would give the same advice to premeds -

1. If you can see yourself doing anything other than medicine, do that instead.
2. You have to want this more than you want anything else.
3. You will have to sacrifice almost everything and put life on hold.
4. You will amass huge amounts of debt with an uncertain financial and work environment future ahead of you.

I would only add - 5. Only do this, if the regret of never having tried will be far worse to you than never trying at all. (there's peeps in their 40s and 50s trying to revisit their dreams of medicine to avoid that kind of regret.)

Unfortunately if you've already signed up and are starting medical school soon, lol it's not too late, but you've already made your decision to an extent. you've made your bed, now lie in it

kidding.

Never did ask - @Pablo94, is it just nerves? Or some regrets? And how are you feeling now?

 

[Yadster101]

You'd be ignorant not to pay close attention to it.

My best friend in med school is in so far deep after 1 year (undergrad debt + sticker price med school) that she couldn't drop out, even if she wanted to, and feels pressured to go into a higher paying specialty so she can pay it off. Loans are not Monopoly money lol you have to pay it back eventually, and the debt burden that medical students feel today isn't really that funny.

I've read and agreed with many of the points you've posted. I grew up in the Chicago burbs and we had gym teachers making 100k. Now tbh most my teachers were smart and hard working, but if you're capable of becoming a doctor then you should have no trouble getting a job at a similar HS and making good money.

I am a financially conservative person and I hate debt with a passion. Med school costs have risen like crazy and I have a younger brother that is far more intelligent than me who I have convinced not to pursue med school mostly cuz of debt.


With all of that being said, I think it's really important to have some perspective and realize that we are very fortunate to live in a country that provides safety, food and more than adequate shelter. Can you genuinely try to imagine being an orphaned Syrian refugee living in a camp in Jordan? Undoubtedly, there are kids in these camps that are naturally talented enough that they could get a full scholarship to a top medical school and then go on to be a leader in their field. But they are now starting their teenage years sick, illiterate, and homeless.

The end of this post wasn't aimed at you specifically cuz I know you said your generally happy. I just think it's important for those of us that are obsessed with not having everything that previous generations of docs had to have some perspective.

 

[Robotfishbrain]

To summarize the thread so far:

- M1s commenting about how they wouldn't practice medicine again
- Teachers apparently are making bank
- Anyone with a verified physician/resident badge is out of touch with today's current medical education something something walking uphill both ways to go to class
- leeches to bleed people is a retired DO technique

This is beautiful. This summarizes most SDN discussions, really.

 

[bananafish94]

Disclaimer: I'm only an M1. Could I see myself as a happy and fulfilled person in a field other than medicine? Probably. However, after this year I am more convinced than ever that medicine is the right field for me. I am amazed at all of the possibilities in front of me and (with a handful of exceptions) I can see myself going into pretty much any specialty. Moreover, I love learning the material and I haven't had any issues with my classmates or faculty (quite the opposite, actually). Of course, there's still plenty of time for me to become more cynical--but it hasn't happened yet!

 

[Pablo94]

LOL..this made me giggle. so much.
(no disrespect intended towards commenters, I just thought it was funny..in an ironic/non-insulting way. like what OP really meant in wanting the POV of "current medical students, residents and attending physicians" is MS1 POVs.
I'm joking by the way, pls don't hurl things at me.

I think there are some solid & valid points. Jokes aside.
I too, did not particularly enjoy MS1 after the afterglow or rush of starting the process of learning medicine. It can be grind. It's still a grind sometimes. I was troubled by the notion of 'delayed gratification' as well. If there's any silver lining to being pre-clinical..is perhaps knowing that the career itself is nothing like the pre-clinical years. You'll never have to relive MS1 or MS2 again if you don't particularly care for it. (Unless you're repeating it).

Even with any regrets I have, right now, the pro's still outweigh the cons overall, and I'd still do it all over again. It's like how data points read on a graph, if you look up close there's a lot of variability but looking from a distance at all the teeny dots put together representing all my freaking days, overall, it's an upward trend in how I feel. It still gives me a high in a way that nothing else would, on my good days. It doesn't mean I don't get moments (or didn't get moments when I as student in the 2010s mind you 😛) where I don't think about why did I do this to myself?

I comfort myself by reminding myself that it's called 'work' for a reason (I know the saying goes that if you love what you do, it shouldnt' feel like work. lol I just wouldn't agree with it entirely, at least not right now, given all the admin/paperwork-y side to things).

Trouble is that it's such a subjective thing. Measuring happiness.
There's so many variables or factors and it depends on a particular individual's set of circumstances.
(finances, family etc. you have to be really fortunate for things to line up to allow for this career choice to work truly).

I liked @WhippleWhileWeWork's thread,
(Sorry did some stalking because I thought your story was intriguing)
I would give the same advice to premeds -

I would only add - 5. Only do this, if the regret of never having tried will be far worse to you than never trying at all. (there's peeps in their 40s and 50s trying to revisit their dreams of medicine to avoid that kind of regret.)

Unfortunately if you've already signed up and are starting medical school soon, lol it's not too late, but you've already made your decision to an extent. you've made your bed, now lie in it

kidding.

Never did ask - @Pablo94, is it just nerves? Or some regrets? And how are you feeling now?

Haha just nerves, especially because I'm moving to a completely new state.

 

[JuanPonceDeLeon]

From the 2017 Medscape Physician Compensation Report.

 

[Dro133]

^^^ yeah, because that's SUPER trustworthy.

Look at the 2016 compensation report if you want to know what I'm talking about.

 

[anbuitachi]

100% no. The BS in medicine is huge. you choose to go into medicine in your early 20s/late teens, b/c you want to help ppl. but then you realize a lot of it is total BS. You spend 200k+ on med school on top of undergrad, learning stuff that most of us wont use again, get treated like crap. It continues in residency where employment rules barely even apply to you. And finally you are an attending and you are old, tired, prob took a -10 year life span for all the crap you dealt thru the 10 yrs prior, all the junk food, the sleepless nights, stress, etc. You are in a **** ton of debt, you are behind on all the life stuff, you realize all your friends are way ahead of you, personally and financially. Hopefully you dont come out of residency with some health issues

And in residency, you realize there's a ton of politics and bureaucracy in the hospital. Tons of useless BS protocols some person w/o a medical background wrote up. you also realize your 23 yr old PA colleagues and NPs make twice as much as you do working half the hours. 12 hr shifts x3 per WEEK, making 100k with barely any responsibilities, with plenty of time to go out w friends, to the gym, etc.
We recently opened up nursing overnight shifts as moonlight for residents because we cant get nurses who want to do them. It's paid 125 per HOUR. Residents fight for these shifts that nurses dont even want.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

OP- if you had asked me during MS1 or MS2- HELL NO. I wanted to quit on a weekly basis.
If I were debt free, I would have.
If you had asked me during MS3 and MS4- probably. Life is finally better than the damn pre-clinical years and you can start to see the light at the end of the tunnel (kinda).

If I recall correctly, you go to a DO school where all your third year grades are determined by solely based on shelf score...Yeah i would love that too, and it would make showing to rotations i don't care for much easier. In the majority of USMD schools evaluations make up a significant portion, half of the time at my school its equal to or worth more than shelf grade. Which is mainly why third year sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I went to a DO school and 90% of our clinical grades are based on evaluations and about 10% is shelf exams. And still, I thought 3rd year was awesome. Exhausting sure, but so much better than pre-clinical years.

You'd be ignorant not to pay close attention to it.

My best friend in med school is in so far deep after 1 year (undergrad debt + sticker price med school) that she couldn't drop out, even if she wanted to, and feels pressured to go into a higher paying specialty so she can pay it off. Loans are not Monopoly money lol you have to pay it back eventually, and the debt burden that medical students feel today isn't really that funny.

Absolutely. I'm looking at close to $400k in principal + accrued interest currently. I wanted to drop out of med school after my first year because I was miserable and it was such a toxic environment, but even after just 1 year I was too far in debt for that. (Of course I'm glad now that I didn't quit, but the debt burden is very real.) And unfortunately it is influencing people's specialty choice out of fear of paying back their loans.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[GoodWillShunting]

Nope. I'd probably go engineering or finance/stocks.

Then again, what the hell do I know? I'm only studying for boards, so relatively speaking, I'm only a blastula on the medical field developmental spectrum. Besides- if I were smart enough to do those aforementioned careers well, then I'd have been smart enough to make the decision to not be here already, as opposed to sitting here regretting this decision.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Domperidone]

Haha just nerves, especially because I'm moving to a completely new state.

LOL
just live in the moment while you can.
nerves are normal. you'll meet them again when you apply for residency. except they'll be worse then.

Agree with Hakuna Matata up there - the clinical years are far better than pre-clinical. No one signs up to medical school for the lectures and exams xD, you go to be a doctor.

 

[JB50]

Fun fact- if you don't want to worry about loans, don't live in LA, Boston, NYC, etc post training.

Tons of FM jobs around me offering a takehome of 150k yearly with huge loan repayment packages (working 4.5 days a week). Neuro job for 400k and loan repayment. Neurosurgery for 7 figures and loan repayment. EM job for $250/hr plus loan repayment. I could go on and on. All in my city of 100k. You name it, it's out there. Too many people b*tch and moan about loans but refuse to live anywhere but a top 10 populated city. I don't feel bad for anyone that does that.

Not to mention living a lifestyle conducive to paying back loans lololol. That needs to be said as well.

 

[Doctor-S]

If you could go back in time would you do it all over again?

Yes because I really enjoy what I do.

For me, it's about attitude, resilience, dedication, caring and confidence. I'm probably much older than many of you ... and yet I still say "yes" I would do it all over again. Very happy and very grateful for my career.

 

[jhamaican]

100% no. The BS in medicine is huge. you choose to go into medicine in your early 20s/late teens, b/c you want to help ppl. but then you realize a lot of it is total BS. You spend 200k+ on med school on top of undergrad, learning stuff that most of us wont use again, get treated like crap. It continues in residency where employment rules barely even apply to you. And finally you are an attending and you are old, tired, prob took a -10 year life span for all the crap you dealt thru the 10 yrs prior, all the junk food, the sleepless nights, stress, etc. You are in a **** ton of debt, you are behind on all the life stuff, you realize all your friends are way ahead of you, personally and financially. Hopefully you dont come out of residency with some health issues

And in residency, you realize there's a ton of politics and bureaucracy in the hospital. Tons of useless BS protocols some person w/o a medical background wrote up. you also realize your 23 yr old PA colleagues and NPs make twice as much as you do working half the hours. 12 hr shifts x3 per WEEK, making 100k with barely any responsibilities, with plenty of time to go out w friends, to the gym, etc.
We recently opened up nursing overnight shifts as moonlight for residents because we cant get nurses who want to do them. It's paid 125 per HOUR. Residents fight for these shifts that nurses dont even want.

100% agree

Medicine is not a good career choice in this day and age.

Your goal as a resident should be to to do as little possible work in residency while minimizing damage to the psyche and body from this backwards system while doing everything to maximize your future earnings.

You owe no one anything after going through this grinder.

 

[Slack3r]

Lol okay, dude. There are districts outside of your own. There and districts outside of mine. Whether or not you choose to believe it, some teachers actually do have a pretty good setup, my best friend being one of them, though I recognize this is generally reserved for the wealthier, suburban districts and are not the norm. Quit making broad sweeping statements about different professions, quit assuming you know better than everyone whose experiences differ from your own, quit attempting to invalidate the feelings of medical students despite not even being one, and move on.

You were at the bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum, yet attended a high school where 25% of teachers make >$100k?

 

[Affiche]

You were at the bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum, yet attended a high school where 25% of teachers make >$100k?

Yes. 🙄 The two did not occur simultaneously.

 

[jl lin]

Plenty of high school teachers are making ~100k (in the suburbs, usually). Having double the salary but no time to use it isn't doing a whole hell of a lot for me.

To the former, don't know one, except if they do admin. The the latter, you make an excellent point.

 

[jl lin]

I'm sorry did I say something that didn't go over very well. One of the posters just said teachers make over six figures like it was a common thing...this is what I mean about ppl getting their real check asap.

Right. That's my point. It totally is not.

 

[jl lin]

To the former, don't know one, except if they do admin. The the latter, you make an excellent point.

That said, who wouldn't want a big piece of the summer off--granted not as much as the kids, but still better than the rest of the world. It would be great to say, "I'm leaving for the summer now. See you in the fall, or at least late summer."

 

[jl lin]

Lol y'all are so obsessed with salaries and debt

Of course they are. You'd be crazy not to count the costs, and not just financial; but that is huge too.