IM competitiveness

[gele021]

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I go to a top 30 med school with no internal ranking, P/F preclinicals that I passed, decent research (no pubs), good volunteering, mentoring premeds, and leadership in a free clinic. The only issue is I only got three HP and three P during MS3 with no H, but my comments were great with no red flags. Step 1 - passed on 1st try. Step 2 - 240. I'm doing my Sub-I right now, so I don't have that grade in yet. I want to eventually do Cardiology and wanted to know which academic programs I can match in. Thanks!

 

[pigsinacloth]

I am not in IM, but in general your home program is probs a good bet. I would contact your advisor and see if they need you to signal them.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The best source of info is your school. I would hope they might track outcomes like this, and can see how other students at the same caliber of performance have done.

If somehow that is not an option, you're unlikely to get interviews at tip top programs. You're likely to get interviews at mid competitive IM programs. There's no reason to look at community programs, unless that what you really want to do (and there are some great community programs that place residents into fellowships).

 

[gele021]

The best source of info is your school. I would hope they might track outcomes like this, and can see how other students at the same caliber of performance have done.

If somehow that is not an option, you're unlikely to get interviews at tip top programs. You're likely to get interviews at mid competitive IM programs. There's no reason to look at community programs, unless that what you really want to do (and there are some great community programs that place residents into fellowships).

My school has been super vague about where I should apply. My only goal is matching cards, so I'm willing to go anywhere tbh. Which schools would I be okay to apply to (I'm not sure which schools fall into that mid tier)? And will my sub-I grade change this?

 

[gele021]

I am not in IM, but in general your home program is probs a good bet. I would contact your advisor and see if they need you to signal them.

I'm definitely planning on signaling them, but since they're considered a higher-tier IM program, I'm wary I may not have a good shot there.

 

[GoSpursGo]

My school has been super vague about where I should apply. My only goal is matching cards, so I'm willing to go anywhere tbh. Which schools would I be okay to apply to (I'm not sure which schools fall into that mid tier)? And will my sub-I grade change this?

Who have you talked to at your home program? I'd talk to the home PD directly if possible

 

[gele021]

Who have you talked to at your home program? I'd talk to the home PD directly if possible

Our PD isn't doing direct meetings for some reason. Only large group meetings, and I don't want to put my business out there like that.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's somewhat crazy if your school doesn't help you with this. They should be collecting this data, then use it to help students like yourself.

But, it is what it is.

Any list of "what am I competitive for" is doomed to failure. There's too many variables, and programs may change over time what/whom they are looking for.

That said, the IM residency application spreadsheet has a "tier list" that is, at least vaguely, useful for this type of discussion.

Looking at this, whether Brown and BU are really "better" than Tufts and Dartmouth is very debatable. But at least this is a place to start.

You'll probably get plenty of interviews top 30 and 40. And certainly in the Mid list. Everything there will keep Cards open.

 

[pigsinacloth]

Honestly some low mid places like UCONN and UMASS are great for cards. Also the advocate hospitals in chicago are not traditional academic centers, but good for cards. You could apply to them and just not signal.

 

[gele021]

It's somewhat crazy if your school doesn't help you with this. They should be collecting this data, then use it to help students like yourself.

But, it is what it is.

Any list of "what am I competitive for" is doomed to failure. There's too many variables, and programs may change over time what/whom they are looking for.

That said, the IM residency application spreadsheet has a "tier list" that is, at least vaguely, useful for this type of discussion.

View attachment 407205

Looking at this, whether Brown and BU are really "better" than Tufts and Dartmouth is very debatable. But at least this is a place to start.

You'll probably get plenty of interviews top 30 and 40. And certainly in the Mid list. Everything there will keep Cards open.

Yeah, everytime I ask, they give me very vague answers like "maybe not UCSF or MGH" which isn't helpful so thank you for this! Being a bit neurotic, how would my sub I grade change where I apply (my school does H, HP and P)?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Yeah, everytime I ask, they give me very vague answers like "maybe not UCSF or MGH" which isn't helpful so thank you for this! Being a bit neurotic, how would my sub I grade change where I apply (my school does H, HP and P)?

My experience is that at most schools, 95% of everyone gets an H on a subI. Your school may be different, but if not won't change much.

 

[gele021]

My experience is that at most schools, 95% of everyone gets an H on a subI. Your school may be different, but if not won't change much.

Okay, even a pass won't keep me from the mid tier schools mentioned previously?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Okay, even a pass won't keep me from the mid tier schools mentioned previously?

It all depends upon the details, and exactly what you're talking about.

If you get a P on your SubI, then that certainly won't help. For both the clerkship and the SubI, it will depend upon the distribution of grades. If you're at a school where 85% get P and 15% get H, then getting a P is not that big of a deal. If your school is 15% P and 85% H, then it's a bigger deal.

 

[gele021]

It all depends upon the details, and exactly what you're talking about.

If you get a P on your SubI, then that certainly won't help. For both the clerkship and the SubI, it will depend upon the distribution of grades. If you're at a school where 85% get P and 15% get H, then getting a P is not that big of a deal. If your school is 15% P and 85% H, then it's a bigger deal.

If it does end up being the second way, which schools/tiers would I be okay to apply for?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Very hard to say. Might depend on why your grade was low. Was it all because of the shelf exam? Or was it because of a low clinical performance? Also depends on whether your performance on other clerkships was similar. But if you're in the 4th quartile of your class, you might want to focus on programs more to the right on that spreadsheet / list. That's not the precise answer you were looking for -- but there is no precise answer.

 

[gele021]

Very hard to say. Might depend on why your grade was low. Was it all because of the shelf exam? Or was it because of a low clinical performance? Also depends on whether your performance on other clerkships was similar. But if you're in the 4th quartile of your class, you might want to focus on programs more to the right on that spreadsheet / list. That's not the precise answer you were looking for -- but there is no precise answer.

Makes sense! I guess, I'm trying to clarify how far left on the list is reasonable to apply if that makes sense?

 

[gele021]

Very hard to say. Might depend on why your grade was low. Was it all because of the shelf exam? Or was it because of a low clinical performance? Also depends on whether your performance on other clerkships was similar. But if you're in the 4th quartile of your class, you might want to focus on programs more to the right on that spreadsheet / list. That's not the precise answer you were looking for -- but there is no precise answer.

Here is the list I've come up with so far:
Cincinnati
UT Houston
Indiana
UC Davis
UC Irvine
Nebraska
Temple
VCU
Tufts
UTSA-Dell
UT-Memphis
UCONN
Medical College of Wisconsin
New Mexico
UMass
U Arizone Phoenix
U Arizona Tuscon
UVM
Creighton Omaha
Creighton Phoenix
Kaiser SF
UT Nashville
UNLV
Indiana
Utah
Nebraska
Metrohealth/Case Western
Rutgers (both)
Loma Linda
Dartmouth
Case Western
UCLA - Olive View and Harbor
Wake Forest
VCU
UCSF Fresno
Are there schools I should add or remove?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As mentioned above, I really can't be any more specific.

You will need to decide which programs to signal, which will be a much shorter list. For IM it's 3 gold and 12 silver.