I'm considering not reapplying if I don't get in this year.

[MaryLennox]

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You don't sound unsociable to me...I think it's difficult to tell something like that from an internet thread. I think your problem is:

1. You only applied to 11 schools.

2. You didn't significantly improve yourself from one cycle to the next.

You gotta remember that no matter how stellar your qualifications are, you're competing with thousands of other people who are basically equivalent to you. Losing after 9 interviews IS unusually bad, though.

i was hoping someone else noticed this.

i also remember hearing another statistic that on average you have to apply to 14 to get into one? is that in any way true? in any case, 11 doesn't sound like that many.

definitely the interviewing skills thing, too, though. but can't you write LOI's to the schools you're still waiting on too? it would definitely suck to retake the MCAT . . . but then, knowing this was your last year they were usable, you should have applied to a lot more schools!!!

 

[uhmm]

1 - (1 - .33)^9

1 - .33 is the probability of getting rejected post-interview for any one specific school.
(1 - .33)^9 is the probability of getting rejected post-interview for all 9 schools
1 - (1 - .33)^9 is the probability of not getting rejected post-interview for all 9 schools, also known as the probability of getting accepted at at least 1 school

but they are not independent events, so if someone's bad at interviewing, his chance of getting accepted at a school afterwards is probably much smaller than .33, let's says it's .1, then his chance of not getting in anywhere after 9 interviews is .387. This is why some people tend to get in everywhere, and others nowhere.

But OP, the schools that you mentioned seemed to have a lot of waitlist movement, so send those letter of interests/intents and hope for the best

 

[softmed]

Lastly, you only applied to 11 schools? You should know by now to apply more broadly.

Where do you suppose I get the money for this? I'm a student, not a millionaire. I spent every penny I had applying to these schools. I lived on ramen noodles for an entire year to do it. I know some people are very fortunate to have parents that will pay for them to apply to 30 schools, then fly them out to every school, but that's not me. And it should look bad from the adcom's perspective if an applicant applies so broadly. It means they're unlikely to go to that particular school.

How do you not know to send letters of intent or interest to schools you interviewed at but have not heard from? Letters of interest are by no means dishonest they are just a way of saying hey! I'm still here!

I never said I didn't know that. I certainly do. My question had to do with deciding which school is the best choice for a letter of intent. A letter of intent is different from a letter of interest because with a letter of intent you're saying you'll definitely attend the school should they accept you. Sure it's not a binding contract, but it is dishonest if you send that to more than one school. It seems as though you're more confused than I am about this.

You say you have not improved volunteering since reapplying a really hope that means you kept going with the experiences you had and not that you just have not done anything in a year because the later just looks BAD...

I've been continuing to volunteer in the past year. But I am very busy with thesis work, so it's not like I really have time to do that anymore. I think most doctors understand it's nearly impossible to do anything besides grad work in grad school.

I have a feeling your interviews didn't go as well as you think. What are your reasons for wanting to be a doctor? Choosing xyz school? Doing a certain ec?

This contains a contradiction I think. My reasons for wanting to be a doctor are like any else's: I enjoy science, I want to help people, I want a challenge, I find differential diagnosis to be fascinating, etc. My reasons for choosing xyz school--WAIT, didn't you just suggest that I blindly choose more schools? Are you kidding me? You really think people that apply to 20, 30 schools have good reasons for attending any but a few of those schools? The primary reason I chose my schools were for proximity to what I consider home and what I thought I'd get from the clinical experience (and obviously value in the case of the state schools). If you really think I should have a good reason for attending a specific school, then next time I should just pick one and do early decision.

schools seem to look at gpa and mcat most for interview invites while skimming ecs then give ecs and the essence of your being a harder look once you're at the interview. If you have nothing to really offer they will either pass you up or give you a big maybe...WL

But a WL is basically saying, "you're good enough to get accepted, but we have better applicants." I really think it's hard to tell what's wrong with my application. I'd like to blame it on ECs, but I'm not sure how much weight they really have. Sure it's nice to have them, but I doubt it'll make or break the typical applicant. However, I'm afraid that I could have a bad letter of recommendation on my file (and I suppose that doesn't make it a letter of recommendation anymore). And obviously I'm afraid that my interviews might be awkward or unimpressive in some way.

 

[Sammich117]

OP, I think in order for us to help you, you need to go into specifics. People keep trying to give you helpful reasons but you keep shooting them down.
It really does sound like an interview problem, but you claim that's not the case.... How do you know that?
I wish I could offer more, but it's hard without all the information

 

[Sammich117]

And I think you're mistaken in saying that EC's can't break an application. They seem to be pretty critical.

 

[MaryLennox]

Where do you suppose I get the money for this? I'm a student, not a millionaire. I spent every penny I had applying to these schools. I lived on ramen noodles for an entire year to do it. I know some people are very fortunate to have parents that will pay for them to apply to 30 schools, then fly them out to every school, but that's not me. And it should look bad from the adcom's perspective if an applicant applies so broadly. It means they're unlikely to go to that particular school.

i'm broke too. if you dont qualify for FAP (don't you?) then you just have to suck it up and find a way. work more. save money. put it on credit cards. take a little extra on your loans. it was hard for me to pay for it all too but the way i saw it was, well, i have worked this hard, why shoot myself in the foot now by under-applying? also i applied to as many schools as i could within driving distance. and i didn't have to fly for a single interview. where are you from? maybe location is part of your problem. i didnt think so before, but after applying this year i see that it makes sense for schools to focus on local applicants more than far flung ones. THOSE are the ones who are less likely to attend. and schools dont know how many other schools you applied to so that logic doesn't work.

if you are set on not re-applying though, then don't. if you don't want to do it after all, no need to justify it to us. do what you gotta do.

 

[flip26]

Where do you suppose I get the money for this? I'm a student, not a millionaire. I spent every penny I had applying to these schools. I lived on ramen noodles for an entire year to do it. I know some people are very fortunate to have parents that will pay for them to apply to 30 schools, then fly them out to every school, but that's not me. And it should look bad from the adcom's perspective if an applicant applies so broadly. It means they're unlikely to go to that particular school.



I never said I didn't know that. I certainly do. My question had to do with deciding which school is the best choice for a letter of intent. A letter of intent is different from a letter of interest because with a letter of intent you're saying you'll definitely attend the school should they accept you. Sure it's not a binding contract, but it is dishonest if you send that to more than one school. It seems as though you're more confused than I am about this.



I've been continuing to volunteer in the past year. But I am very busy with thesis work, so it's not like I really have time to do that anymore. I think most doctors understand it's nearly impossible to do anything besides grad work in grad school.



This contains a contradiction I think. My reasons for wanting to be a doctor are like any else's: I enjoy science, I want to help people, I want a challenge, I find differential diagnosis to be fascinating, etc. My reasons for choosing xyz school--WAIT, didn't you just suggest that I blindly choose more schools? Are you kidding me? You really think people that apply to 20, 30 schools have good reasons for attending any but a few of those schools? The primary reason I chose my schools were for proximity to what I consider home and what I thought I'd get from the clinical experience (and obviously value in the case of the state schools). If you really think I should have a good reason for attending a specific school, then next time I should just pick one and do early decision.



But a WL is basically saying, "you're good enough to get accepted, but we have better applicants." I really think it's hard to tell what's wrong with my application. I'd like to blame it on ECs, but I'm not sure how much weight they really have. Sure it's nice to have them, but I doubt it'll make or break the typical applicant. However, I'm afraid that I could have a bad letter of recommendation on my file (and I suppose that doesn't make it a letter of recommendation anymore). And obviously I'm afraid that my interviews might be awkward or unimpressive in some way.

Reading this, and your other posts, gives me a headache.

I can sum you up with two words: bad attitude.

Face it - you don't want it bad enough. Otherwise, you would have applied to more than 11 schools, especially as a reapplicant, and you would have already written letters of interest and intent instead of whining about it here.

 

[softmed]

OP, I think in order for us to help you, you need to go into specifics. People keep trying to give you helpful reasons but you keep shooting them down.
It really does sound like an interview problem, but you claim that's not the case.... How do you know that?
I wish I could offer more, but it's hard without all the information

Yeah, I'm contradicting myself there. It might be an interview problem. I don't see why some interviewers would say I'm a great fit (waitlist) and others wouldn't say anything (waitlist) though. I don't really want to go into specifics just because the application cycle isn't over and I'd rather not risk the ADCOMs seeing my topic where I'm considering not really applying.

And I think you're mistaken in saying that EC's can't break an application. They seem to be pretty critical.

Yeah, I don't really know. My brother got into medical school with a 27 MCAT, 3.5 GPA and 100 hours of hospital work (my MCAT was a 32, my GPA a 3.9, I have more research experience, and I had 200+ hours of hospital work plus several other ECs he didn't have). He had one interview, one waitlist, and one acceptance. He also applied twice.

So I guess he was just lucky... AND/OR a good interviewer. Apparently I'm either extremely unlucky and/or a terrible interviewer. I mean it's still too early to tell, I could still get in, but I guess I'm just not hopeful with what's happened so far.

 

[softmed]

if you are set on not re-applying though, then don't. if you don't want to do it after all, no need to justify it to us. do what you gotta do.

I'm not set on it, but I was pretty sure I did everything right this time. Nine interviews is a bit ridiculous. Some people do 30 schools and get two interviews out of it (one an acceptance). Despite apparently underapplying, I still had far more chances than most applicants. I wish everyone would stop blaming it on that.

Face it - you don't want it bad enough. Otherwise, you would have applied to more than 11 schools, especially as a reapplicant, and you would have already written letters of interest and intent instead of whining about it here.

I can still write those letters of interest/intent. I'm still not sure I want to because some of my schools explicitly do not accept them. And 11 schools was really all I could afford. I actually tried to get a credit card to pay for some and I already had taken a huge amount of loans to pay for them. I cannot get a job to pay for any more (unless there are jobs that I can work 1 hour a week at) As it was, with the amount of interviews I had last year I barely got any graduate work accomplished and my PI nearly kicked me out. Don't assume you know I'm not serious about something just because I didn't have the money to spend on it.

But again, applying to only 11 schools wasn't the problem because I got 9 interviews out of it. Sheesh.

 

[MaryLennox]

Reading this, and your other posts, gives me a headache.

I can sum you up with two words: bad attitude.

Face it - you don't want it bad enough. Otherwise, you would have applied to more than 11 schools, especially as a reapplicant, and you would have already written letters of interest and intent instead of whining about it here.

you pretty much beat me to it. feeling sorry for yourself is not an attitude that will get you far in the profession. you have to be able to simply identify your weaknesses and resolve them without a lot of whining. in other words, be mature and take responsibility. my guess is your interviews went badly, so your obvious next step is to resolve that so you can get in. this is a weeding out process. it always amazes me to see how many people weed themselves out simply because they don't want to make a change or do something hard. i wasn't trying to be mean but i am serious. if you don't want it badly enough, someone else does and will take a spot you might have had if you just went that extra mile.

 

[MedBoundForSure]

Where do you suppose I get the money for this? I'm a student, not a millionaire. I spent every penny I had applying to these schools. I lived on ramen noodles for an entire year to do it. I know some people are very fortunate to have parents that will pay for them to apply to 30 schools, then fly them out to every school, but that's not me. And it should look bad from the adcom's perspective if an applicant applies so broadly. It means they're unlikely to go to that particular school.

I understand what you are saying, applying is expensive as heck, but come on. Not everyone who applies has a ton of money. I know I sure don't. My cell phone got cut off, doctors bills went unpaid and food was forgone trying to get app fees in. I asked family for money (hey grams can I have 80 dollars for an app, hey bro can I have 75 bucks for an app). I made a game out of it...Ohh I'll let you know if yours makes it lol. I was not eligible for a fee waiver, my parents make too much even though dad is in bankruptcy. I emailed the schools that offer free secondaries with an AMCAS waiver and explained my situation and guess what? Two free secondaries. Nobody said apply to 20 or even 30 schools. Having 15 would have been ideal for you, but whatever you're broke so forget I said that.

Also, adcoms do not know how many schools you applied to unless you tell them. they do not know acceptances until after may 15...so that should not be a factor in deciding where to apply.

I never said I didn't know that. I certainly do. My question had to do with deciding which school is the best choice for a letter of intent. A letter of intent is different from a letter of interest because with a letter of intent you're saying you'll definitely attend the school should they accept you. Sure it's not a binding contract, but it is dishonest if you send that to more than one school. It seems as though you're more confused than I am about this.

All I was saying is that you need to send letters of interest to all the schools you applied to and have not yet been rejected from since obviously you are interested! I am not confused on this at all. Just because you decide not to send a letter of intent does not mean you also should not send a letter of interest.


I've been continuing to volunteer in the past year. But I am very busy with thesis work, so it's not like I really have time to do that anymore. I think most doctors understand it's nearly impossible to do anything besides grad work in grad school.

Sure, whatever you say. (I have met with two adcom members who told me to my face that it is important to continue volunteer work between cycles when reapplying as it confirms your dedication.)

This contains a contradiction I think. My reasons for wanting to be a doctor are like any else's: I enjoy science, I want to help people, I want a challenge, I find differential diagnosis to be fascinating, etc. My reasons for choosing xyz school--WAIT, didn't you just suggest that I blindly choose more schools? Are you kidding me? You really think people that apply to 20, 30 schools have good reasons for attending any but a few of those schools? The primary reason I chose my schools were for proximity to what I consider home and what I thought I'd get from the clinical experience (and obviously value in the case of the state schools). If you really think I should have a good reason for attending a specific school, then next time I should just pick one and do early decision.

No, I did not suggest you blindly chose more schools. I suggest that you sit down and look over information from more schools and generate a list of about 15 to apply to. Seriously if you cannot find 15 schools out of 131 in this country to attend then something is wrong. Each school is distinct from another, but the distinctions are not that great. You can pick one and do early decision if you are really sold, but you need to have more lined up for when you do not get in. This is not like applying to undergrad, you have to be a lot more flexible.


But a WL is basically saying, "you're good enough to get accepted, but we have better applicants." I really think it's hard to tell what's wrong with my application. I'd like to blame it on ECs, but I'm not sure how much weight they really have. Sure it's nice to have them, but I doubt it'll make or break the typical applicant. However, I'm afraid that I could have a bad letter of recommendation on my file (and I suppose that doesn't make it a letter of recommendation anymore). And obviously I'm afraid that my interviews might be awkward or unimpressive in some way.

ECs will make or break the typical applicant. How do you think schools decide between candidates that all have very high MCATS and GPAs. It comes down to the "everything else" of the application.

I see a lot of excuses here...

 

[MedBoundForSure]

sorry the quoting is off on that one, but you get it 😛

 

[softmed]

ECs will make or break the typical applicant. How do you think schools decide between candidates that all have very high MCATS and GPAs. It comes down to the "everything else" of the application.

I see a lot of excuses here...

ugh

Well I'm glad someone finally told me. The premed advisory committee never stressed this. I had a professor who was on the adcom for a medical school and she never said this (but she said they look good on an application). My brother never said it. The doctors I work with never told me this. The doctors I shadowed never said this. And yes, I did ask. These people all were accepted with relatively little ECs.

I'm done with this thread unless people can give me any other suggestions besides, "bad attitude" and "feeling sorry for yourself" which I'm absolutely not doing (I even addressed it in the OP because I thought it sounded like that). I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with my application and even though I'm making up excuses, I'm filing these suggestions in the back of my head for later. I'm a person who is very skeptical of everything, and obviously I'm going to find reasons why something may not be the case before accepting them.

But before I stop, one thing that no one has addressed so far is one of my main questions. Will it look bad to apply a third time after receiving so many interviews? For some schools, they'll be looking at an applicant they have already interviewed twice. Does anyone think this will look bad?

 

[flip26]

you pretty much beat me to it. feeling sorry for yourself is not an attitude that will get you far in the profession. you have to be able to simply identify your weaknesses and resolve them without a lot of whining. in other words, be mature and take responsibility. my guess is your interviews went badly, so your obvious next step is to resolve that so you can get in. this is a weeding out process. it always amazes me to see how many people weed themselves out simply because they don't want to make a change or do something hard. i wasn't trying to be mean but i am serious. if you don't want it badly enough, someone else does and will take a spot you might have had if you just went that extra mile.

I predict the OP will get accepted off a waitlist, and in a few months he will start a thread entitled "turning down an acceptance so I can reapply and get into a better med school"...

People pick up on attitude, especially interviewers.

 

[MaryLennox]

I've been continuing to volunteer in the past year. But I am very busy with thesis work, so it's not like I really have time to do that anymore. I think most doctors understand it's nearly impossible to do anything besides grad work in grad school.

ooh i almost missed this one until the above poster pointed it out.

BE CAREFUL WITH GRAD SCHOOL. i was too busy with it to do any volunteering, shadowing, too. and i realized, wait a second, this is NOT HELPING MY CHANCES. i knew i needed to be volunteering and shadowing. so i actually changed my entire project and mentor so i could align my stuff more with the medical side of things and also so i would have more time to do other stuff. i started volunteering, and shadowing, and took more classes within the medical school, and did teaching assistance for one. i got a non thesis masters instead of a regular one and guess what, no one really cares except people in the graduate school. medical schools didnt care, i still got a first author pub, thats what they care about. AND i did lots of shadowing and volunteering. they care about that too.

my point is, you know what schools look for. give it to them. if you don't know, you should. if you devote all your time to your thesis and stop doing premed stuff, it just makes it look like you belong in grad school and not med school. dont lose sight of why you are doing what you're doing.

 

[MaryLennox]

ugh

Well I'm glad someone finally told me. The premed advisory committee never stressed this. I had a professor who was on the adcom for a medical school and she never said this (but she said they look good on an application). My brother never said it. The doctors I work with never told me this. The doctors I shadowed never said this. And yes, I did ask. These people all were accepted with relatively little ECs.

these all sound like people who got accepted way longer ago than you. i know people say you shouldnt come to SDN for advice, but i lurked for probably 2 solid years before i applied, and i ended up knowing more about current admissions standards than any doctors i knew, or professors, and even my premed advisor. really. be proactive when getting your info and consider the source. getting into med school now is a lot different than it was 5 or 10 or 20 years ago. listen the the first and second years on here who just went through it.

But before I stop, one thing that no one has addressed so far is one of my main questions. Will it look bad to apply a third time after receiving so many interviews? For some schools, they'll be looking at an applicant they have already interviewed twice. Does anyone think this will look bad?

i know a girl who got in on her 3rd time. some schools discourage it, but if you do your research i am sure you can find schools that don't care. or maybe try applying to some different ones. or, reapply to ones you were waitlisted at but also some new ones. (the girl i knew who was a 3 time applicant got in at a school where she was waitlisted the previous year.) if they recognize your name as someone who was good-enough-last-year-but-just-didnt-have-enough-spots, maybe the following year they'll be happy to pick you out and interview you again and accept you.

anyway, all we're saying is you cant blame other people when stuff isnt going well. thats not to say they might not be partly to blame. they might be. there are plenty of people i could blame for my difficulties in school- but i choose not to. because blaming people doesnt help you. the only thing that helps you is for you to make the choice to rise above it and make your own way. sounds cheesy but no one can make it happen but you.

 

[softmed]

I predict the OP will get accepted off a waitlist, and in a few months he will start a thread entitled "turning down an acceptance so I can reapply and get into a better med school"....

Definitely not. One of the schools I'm waiting on is NYCOM, and I will be giving them their huge deposit (from loan money) if I'm accepted there. I'll probably join the military to pay for it because it's such an expensive school.

The purpose of this topic is that I want to find out if I should apply again should I not be accepted. It seems like there may be some hope, some things I can fix for the third time around.

BE CAREFUL WITH GRAD SCHOOL. i was too busy with it to do any volunteering, shadowing, too. and i realized, wait a second, this is NOT HELPING MY CHANCES. i knew i needed to be volunteering and shadowing. so i actually changed my entire project and mentor so i could align my stuff more with the medical side of things and also so i would have more time to do other stuff. i started volunteering, and shadowing, and took more classes within the medical school, and did teaching assistance for one. i got a non thesis masters instead of a regular one and guess what, no one really cares except people in the graduate school. medical schools didnt care, i still got a first author pub, thats what they care about. AND i did lots of shadowing and volunteering. they care about that too.

I'm pretty much regretting putting myself into $40,000 more debt for grad school right now. I think you have a good point, but I suppose I thought it would look better if they knew I could devote myself completely to something.

 

[GTV]

1 - (1 - .33)^9

1 - .33 is the probability of getting rejected post-interview for any one specific school.
(1 - .33)^9 is the probability of getting rejected post-interview for all 9 schools
1 - (1 - .33)^9 is the probability of not getting rejected post-interview for all 9 schools, also known as the probability of getting accepted at at least 1 school

Shouldn't you use the binomial distribution here? In which case the probability of at at least one success out of 9 trials is .999949

 

[softmed]

anyway, all we're saying is you cant blame other people when stuff isnt going well. thats not to say they might not be partly to blame. they might be. there are plenty of people i could blame for my difficulties in school- but i choose not to. because blaming people doesnt help you. the only thing that helps you is for you to make the choice to rise above it and make your own way. sounds cheesy but no one can make it happen but you.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm blaming those people. It's not like they did it on purpose so I wouldn't get in, and I think in their experience it was what worked.

I think I should have an acceptance regardless of what they advised. I wish I had used SDN before last summer really. I didn't know about it until then, and it really is a great resource. I think I would have had an acceptance at some of my earliest interviews had I used more (Upstate most notably because they use the same questions over and over).

 

[MaryLennox]

I'm pretty much regretting putting myself into $40,000 more debt for grad school right now. I think you have a good point, but I suppose I thought it would look better if they knew I could devote myself completely to something.

haha- sure. but what you should be completely devoting yourself to is jumping through the premed hoops. proving that you have an interest in medicine, not just whatever it is your research is about. they also want to see that you are capable of multitasking and being able to devote yourself a lot to one thing, and still make time for others. they want to see you prioritize and work hard.

what field is your grad work in? as much as it would suck for you to have to retake the MCAT, i have to be honest, i pretty much owe my ass-saving BS score to my graduate level bio classes. you might do significantly better on it this time.

and i also really wish i had not spent the money on the MS- it was a lot of money. but i was doing it for a reason, the reason being to get into med school, and i just had to keep reminding myself why i was doing it so i could remember to make the most of it. so even though i grumble now about how much i hated grad school, and i am so relieved to be done and going on to med school . . . it had to be done. i know my experiences there pushed my app to where it needed to be.