I'm going to quit residency in a few weeks

[Chocolateagar04]

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So I decided I want to quit my residency program....I'm waiting for the 45 days I'm obligated by the NRMP and then I'm going to approach my program director and give them my 30 day notice....

I just don't like what in Doing I don't like patients, don't like rounding, I'm stressed everyday and it's just not worth it considering i don't really like my chosen specialty that much anymore

Anyways, is this going to be disastrous to my career? I figured I could just reapply for next cycle and or find an open pgy2 position somewhere for family anesthesia rads or something and join them....

I finished step 3 and TY year although didnt do too hot on step 3.

Any ideas of what to do in my time off?

Thanks.

 

[cabinbuilder]

So I decided I want to quit my residency program....I'm waiting for the 45 days I'm obligated by the NRMP and then I'm going to approach my program director and give them my 30 day notice....

I just don't like what in Doing I don't like patients, don't like rounding, I'm stressed everyday and it's just not worth it considering i don't really like my chosen specialty that much anymore

Anyways, is this going to be disastrous to my career? I figured I could just reapply for next cycle and or find an open pgy2 position somewhere for family anesthesia rads or something and join them....

I finished step 3 and TY year although didnt do too hot on step 3.

Any ideas of what to do in my time off?

Thanks.

Yes, you are setting yourself up for disaster. Don't quit. Instead you need to transfer into another residency/specialty while you are still a resident. No one will touch you otherwise and you won't have a career.

 

[thesauce]

Unless things have really changed, you will still have to round in family medicine

 

[BADMD]

Anyways, is this going to be disastrous to my career?

Yes

I figured I could just reapply for next cycle and or find an open pgy2 position somewhere for family anesthesia rads or something and join them....

You can try, but remember that you are damaged goods. PDs are going to be very reluctant to hire someone who just up and quits because they don't like things. I don't know what you are doing, but deciding you don't like doing doctor work after 30 days and are willing to quit suggests to me that you aren't going to last in any field of medicine.

I finished step 3 and TY year although didnt do too hot on step 3.

Now you're just trolling, right?

Any ideas of what to do in my time off?

Find something that pays enough to cover your loans maybe?

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Damn...didn't realize it was such a disaster to quit ...don't people realize they dont like their specialty and switch all the time?

 

[gutonc]

Damn...didn't realize it was such a disaster to quit ...don't people realize they dont like their specialty and switch all the time?

Define "all the time." Yes, there are people who do what you are planning to do, however they tend to tough out the year in question unless it's malignant. Since you're being coy about your matched specialty, and since you mentioned a TY and rounding, I'm going to guess you're in PMR or Neuro....

Are you competitive enough for Rads or Gas?

When FM isn't rounding, they're doing well child checks, managing diabetics who see a foot amputation as a "cost of doing business" and getting called to L&D for deliveries. Does that sound better than what you've got now?

You need to sit down with someone who knows you (med school mentor, somebody you clicked with from your TY) and really think this through.

 

[Top Gun]

Damn...didn't realize it was such a disaster to quit ...don't people realize they dont like their specialty and switch all the time?

No, most people tend to stick with their residency, in spite of the number of threads you see here on SDN regarding transfer to other residencies.. Switching into another residency is very difficult, which is why you should have an idea which specialty you really like before even applying to residency. Also, you said that you don't like patients or rounding. If that's the case, why are you considering family medicine or even anesthesia?Anesthesiologists still have to see patients before and after their surgeries. If you don't like patient contact, you should consider rads or path.

 

[Buzz Me]

So I decided I want to quit my residency program....I'm waiting for the 45 days I'm obligated by the NRMP and then I'm going to approach my program director and give them my 30 day notice....

I just don't like what in Doing I don't like patients, don't like rounding, I'm stressed everyday and it's just not worth it considering i don't really like my chosen specialty that much anymore

What happened? I thought you were in Neurology, aiming for a Pain fellowship. There's lots of rounding and dealing with VERY difficult, needy patients in Pain! 😕

Did something happen in July to sour the whole experience?

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Ugh just had a super rough week... pushed me to the brink.

Anyways, Im feeling a bit better now. Its too early to make any firm decisions I suppose.

 

[Shikima]

Ugh just had a super rough week... pushed me to the brink.

Anyways, Im feeling a bit better now. Its too early to make any firm decisions I suppose.

Correct. If you need help managing stress, which we all have been in your shoes, consider finding an outside social worker who you can see on a weekly/bi-monthly schedule to talk about stress and decompress routinely.

I believe this will help you through the next "x years."

 

[Paddington]

So I decided I want to quit my residency program....I'm waiting for the 45 days I'm obligated by the NRMP and then I'm going to approach my program director and give them my 30 day notice....

I just don't like what in Doing I don't like patients, don't like rounding, I'm stressed everyday and it's just not worth it considering i don't really like my chosen specialty that much anymore

Anyways, is this going to be disastrous to my career? I figured I could just reapply for next cycle and or find an open pgy2 position somewhere for family anesthesia rads or something and join them....

I finished step 3 and TY year although didnt do too hot on step 3.

Any ideas of what to do in my time off?

Thanks.

Are you joking or what? You will not stroll into another residency program, even if you're a Johns Hopkins grad. Leaving residency will be a major black mark, and possibly a permanent end to your career (read some other threads here if you don't believe us). Unless it's completely unbearable, I would stick with it. You can search quietly for something else on the side. But don't leave unless you've got something confirmed lined up. And never leave mid-year.

 

[CopperStripes]

Correct. If you need help managing stress, which we all have been in your shoes, consider finding an outside social worker who you can see on a weekly/bi-monthly schedule to talk about stress and decompress routinely.

I believe this will help you through the next "x years."

Rather than "If you need help" this poster should have said "You need help." OP, you started this thread as though you had already made up your mind to quit. Then, later in the VERY SAME day, decided that things were better and you were just having a bad week! Bad days and bad weeks come all the time in residency, and you need to learn more appropriate ways of handling them than suddenly deciding you are going to quit.

 

[KnuxNole]

Unless things have really changed, you will still have to round in family medicine

Absolutely.

OP, if you don't mind, what specialty are you trying to transfer out of? You mentioned a TY, and I dunno what subsequent residency you joined.

What specifically about rounds don't you like? If it's the "Spend 5 hours contemplating the many ways to evaluate hypercalcemia", that's in an academic setting. You won't be doing that as a hospitalist.

The patients thing...well, is there anything specific you are disliking, or is this a general thing? You'll be having a lot of patient/parent/family member interaction as a family practice physician.

 

[KnuxNole]

Ugh just had a super rough week... pushed me to the brink.

Anyways, Im feeling a bit better now. Its too early to make any firm decisions I suppose.

In that case, on your next golden weekend, try to do something really fun and clear your mind 😀

Intern year isn't meant to be easy. Its only been 1.5 months, but it's not easy. It might be for some, which is awesome, but don't feel alone if you feel you are having some bad days. Talk with your other co-residents and get a good support system, especially if you are doing residency away from your family and friends from your hometown. With this recent rotation block, I feel drained and dumb every day, but talking with my fellow interns makes me a bit sane that I'm not the only one, and going out to dinner to vent and chill makes things better 😀

 

[Arthrocity]

Are you joking or what? You will not stroll into another residency program, even if you're a Johns Hopkins grad. Leaving residency will be a major black mark, and possibly a permanent end to your career (read some other threads here if you don't believe us). Unless it's completely unbearable, I would stick with it. You can search quietly for something else on the side. But don't leave unless you've got something confirmed lined up. And never leave mid-year.

I think suggesting that OP can't find another residency is silly. I agree that he/she should not just get up and quit on day 46, but it's perfectly reasonable for the OP to try to switch into something else if he/she is unhappy. People should not stay in specialties that they don't like and "stick it out."

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I think suggesting that OP can't find another residency is silly. I agree that he/she should not just get up and quit on day 46, but it's perfectly reasonable for the OP to try to switch into something else if he/she is unhappy. People should not stay in specialties that they don't like and "stick it out."

But that would depend on what sort of candidate they are, how well they did in their one year, and how well the PD of that program would help him/her get to a new residency. Having a residency now with a path to a job can often be better than some unknown residency out there that may not even exist for the OP.

 

[Arthrocity]

But that would depend on what sort of candidate they are, how well they did in their one year, and how well the PD of that program would help him/her get to a new residency. Having a residency now with a path to a job can often be better than some unknown residency out there that may not even exist for the OP.

I disagree. If OP has a residency now, it's like he/she can get a different similarly competitive residency. By that I mean if OP is in FM for example, it's unlikely they will get into rad onc or derm. But if they are in ortho, they can certainly get into IM or anesthesia or something else. PD does not need to do anything in regards to a new residency - tons of people switch without involving their PD. Continuing in a residency someone is miserable in will lead to bad outcomes inevitably. Especially for the residency options OP suggested, it would be unlikely he/she could not match.

 

[lisichka]

Yes, you are setting yourself up for disaster. Don't quit. Instead you need to transfer into another speciality while you are still a resident. No one will touch you otherwise and you won't have a career.

I feel that a lot of people on this forum judge and jump to conclusions too quickly.
They don't know what residency the op is in. They don't know his work ethic or anything at all about the circumstances. How can you say that this is detrimental to his career. it's absolutely baseless speculation. just nonsense...

What proof is there that he is branded for life if he quits. Just anecdotal evidence, which is kind of ironic since this is a science forum. Show me any laws, rules, publications, even fiction books describing a consequence of a resident leaving residency??? probably none, zero, zilch🙁

I feel that instead of judging him, we need to support and help op make his own decision whatever it might be.
my advise to the OP: take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Half of the time, these people have never been where you have been, have never felt what you feel. Try to stay in this residency, but if you feel that you are totally lost, and see no way you can stay, then leave.

 

[Substance]

Make sure you have your hand firmly grasping the next vine before you let go of the one you're currently holding. You're not Shia LeBouf.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I feel that a lot of people on this forum judge and jump to conclusions too quickly.
They don't know what residency the op is in. They don't know his work ethic or anything at all about the circumstances. How can you say that this is detrimental to his career. it's absolutely baseless speculation. just nonsense...

What proof is there that he is branded for life if he quits. Just anecdotal evidence, which is kind of ironic since this is a science forum. Show me any laws, rules, publications, even fiction books describing a consequence of a resident leaving residency??? probably none, zero, zilch🙁

I feel that instead of judging him, we need to support and help op make his own decision whatever it might be.
my advise to the OP: take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Half of the time, these people have never been where you have been, have never felt what you feel. Try to stay in this residency, but if you feel that you are totally lost, and see no way you can stay, then leave.

My response was based on personal experience. I personally transferred to another residency - it was extremely difficult to do. My point is that if you want to go to a different residency at least have that in place before you quit the first. I have a friend who quit residency and was never able to get back into another one to finish. Out in the workforce it is extremely difficult to get a job if you are not BE/BC anymore. No judging here, just a response based on living through.

 

[michaelrack]

I
What proof is there that he is branded for life if he quits. Just anecdotal evidence, which is kind of ironic since this is a science forum. Show me any laws, rules, publications, even fiction books describing a consequence of a resident leaving residency??? probably none, zero, zilch🙁

I feel that instead of judging him, we need to support and help op make his own decision whatever it might be.
.

A lot of those advising the OP not to quit mid-year are attendings (and I agree with this advice). It will be disaster for his career. That's not judgement, it is reality.

There aren't any formal rules, laws, etc (other than the 45 day rule). Maybe APD can step in and make an authoritative statement.

 

[Shikima]

A lot of those advising the OP not to quit mid-year are attendings (and I agree with this advice). It will be disaster for his career. That's not judgement, it is reality.

There aren't any formal rules, laws, etc (other than the 45 day rule). Maybe APD can step in and make an authoritative statement.

👍

 

[jdh71]

I feel that a lot of people on this forum judge and jump to conclusions too quickly.
They don't know what residency the op is in. They don't know his work ethic or anything at all about the circumstances. How can you say that this is detrimental to his career. it's absolutely baseless speculation. just nonsense...

What proof is there that he is branded for life if he quits. Just anecdotal evidence, which is kind of ironic since this is a science forum. Show me any laws, rules, publications, even fiction books describing a consequence of a resident leaving residency??? probably none, zero, zilch🙁

I feel that instead of judging him, we need to support and help op make his own decision whatever it might be.
my advise to the OP: take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Half of the time, these people have never been where you have been, have never felt what you feel. Try to stay in this residency, but if you feel that you are totally lost, and see no way you can stay, then leave.

Hm. There is the way we might like things to be and THEN . . . there is the way things ARE. Crap into one hand and wish into the other and get back to us on which hand fills up faster . . .

Can you quit a residency two months in and claw, scrape, beg, and borrow your way into something else? Maybe. Do people win the lottery? It's happens. Are unicorns for real?? Can't say for 100% certainty they are not . . .

Choices have consequences. We don't get to choose those consequences. We are only in control of our side of the equation. So if you sit down and try and analyze the chess here . . . yeah . . . a guy could sacrifice his queen, but only if the next few moves force check mate, otherwise it's ******ed.

There are ways to do this kind of thing and then there are ways to do this kind of thing. You want to leave one residency and move onto an other? Well that generally requires three things 1) the blessing of your current PD, 2) the blessing of the PD where you want to go, and 3) that you finish your year and don't screw the program that you are in. Outside of that context, you might as well mark yourself with a scarlet letter and expect life to much, much harder.

 

[lisichka]

Hm. There is the way we might like things to be and THEN . . . there is the way things ARE. Crap into one hand and wish into the other and get back to us on which hand fills up faster . . .

Can you quit a residency two months in and claw, scrape, beg, and borrow your way into something else? Maybe. Do people win the lottery? It's happens. Are unicorns for real?? Can't say for 100% certainty they are not . . .

Choices have consequences. We don't get to choose those consequences. We are only in control of our side of the equation. So if you sit down and try and analyze the chess here . . . yeah . . . a guy could sacrifice his queen, but only if the next few moves force check mate, otherwise it's ******ed.

There are ways to do this kind of thing and then there are ways to do this kind of thing. You want to leave one residency and move onto an other? Well that generally requires three things 1) the blessing of your current PD, 2) the blessing of the PD where you want to go, and 3) that you finish your year and don't screw the program that you are in. Outside of that context, you might as well mark yourself with a scarlet letter and expect life to much, much harder.

ha ha, of all people, it's jdh. it's been ages.

in any case. a bit about me: I quit my residency after one month several years back. It was not a family or life emergency. It was a very boring reason : this residency was such a poor choice on my part, that I couldn't see myself being in that environment for one more day. We are all human, even MDs, if you could believe that for a second. I made a poor judgment by choosing what I chose, and I paid for it by doing research for one year without getting paid.

But never did I think my (professional, MD) life was over. In one year, I found an awesome residency, in another specialty that I love.

Now, I am not saying that my example is the norm, or that OP should quit. Absolutely not!
But if the worst happens, OP, your life as a doctor is not over. unless you are gunning for derm.

 

[lisichka]

Hm. There is the way we might like things to be and THEN . . . there is the way things ARE. Crap into one hand and wish into the other and get back to us on which hand fills up faster . . .

Can you quit a residency two months in and claw, scrape, beg, and borrow your way into something else? Maybe. Do people win the lottery? It's happens. Are unicorns for real?? Can't say for 100% certainty they are not . . .

Choices have consequences. We don't get to choose those consequences. We are only in control of our side of the equation. So if you sit down and try and analyze the chess here . . . yeah . . . a guy could sacrifice his queen, but only if the next few moves force check mate, otherwise it's ******ed.

There are ways to do this kind of thing and then there are ways to do this kind of thing. You want to leave one residency and move onto an other? Well that generally requires three things 1) the blessing of your current PD, 2) the blessing of the PD where you want to go, and 3) that you finish your year and don't screw the program that you are in. Outside of that context, you might as well mark yourself with a scarlet letter and expect life to much, much harder.

oh, one more thing, I may be a unicorn, but I did get 20 interviews post resignation. 😀

 

[jdh71]

oh, one more thing, I may be a unicorn, but I did get 20 interviews post resignation. 😀

I also know a guy who quit in the middle of psych and picked up a neurosurgy residency a bit later.

Stuff does happen. It doesn't mean you are a bad person or that you need to kill yourself. But people need to understand very well what they are doing and the possible and likely consequences. I also know a guy who quit an ER residency and still can't find a gig in family, IM, or neuro. He suspects behind the scenes sabotage by old PD. it happens. All too often. You have to do this stuff correctly.

 

[lisichka]

I also know a guy who quit in the middle of psych and picked up a neurosurgy residency a bit later.

Stuff does happen. It doesn't mean you are a bad person or that you need to kill yourself. But people need to understand very well what they are doing and the possible and likely consequences. I also know a guy who quit an ER residency and still can't find a gig in family, IM, or neuro. He suspects behind the scenes sabotage by old PD. it happens. All too often. You have to do this stuff correctly.

agreed.

 

[Arthrocity]

ha ha, of all people, it's jdh. it's been ages.

in any case. a bit about me: I quit my residency after one month several years back. It was not a family or life emergency. It was a very boring reason : this residency was such a poor choice on my part, that I couldn't see myself being in that environment for one more day. We are all human, even MDs, if you could believe that for a second. I made a poor judgment by choosing what I chose, and I paid for it by doing research for one year without getting paid.

But never did I think my (professional, MD) life was over. In one year, I found an awesome residency, in another specialty that I love.

Now, I am not saying that my example is the norm, or that OP should quit. Absolutely not!
But if the worst happens, OP, your life as a doctor is not over. unless you are gunning for derm.

Precisely. While it is not wise to quit mid career, making global statements is not wise either. It makes sense for the OP to hold on for a bit longer and reapply to go into something different.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I disagree. If OP has a residency now, it's like he/she can get a different similarly competitive residency. By that I mean if OP is in FM for example, it's unlikely they will get into rad onc or derm. But if they are in ortho, they can certainly get into IM or anesthesia or something else. PD does not need to do anything in regards to a new residency - tons of people switch without involving their PD. Continuing in a residency someone is miserable in will lead to bad outcomes inevitably. Especially for the residency options OP suggested, it would be unlikely he/she could not match.

I would be very surprised if programs will take people without talking to the prior PD for someone in a current residency or recently in one. Yes, there may be a few, but most of them want to make sure they aren't getting a big problem on their hands. So a few, maybe. Tons, no.

 

[Arthrocity]

I would be very surprised if programs will take people without talking to the prior PD for someone in a current residency or recently in one. Yes, there may be a few, but most of them want to make sure they aren't getting a big problem on their hands. So a few, maybe. Tons, no.

Not if people change early on. If you change after a long time in a program perhaps, but if changing into a different specialty, especially this early on when ERAS opens in Sept after 2 months of being in residency, it's hardly an issue.

 

[Paddington]

ha ha, of all people, it's jdh. it's been ages.

in any case. a bit about me: I quit my residency after one month several years back. It was not a family or life emergency. It was a very boring reason : this residency was such a poor choice on my part, that I couldn't see myself being in that environment for one more day. We are all human, even MDs, if you could believe that for a second. I made a poor judgment by choosing what I chose, and I paid for it by doing research for one year without getting paid.

But never did I think my (professional, MD) life was over. In one year, I found an awesome residency, in another specialty that I love.

Now, I am not saying that my example is the norm, or that OP should quit. Absolutely not!
But if the worst happens, OP, your life as a doctor is not over. unless you are gunning for derm.

Unfortunately, your anecdotal experience is 100% irrelevant. Things have changed a lot. And I'm not talking about decades here, I'm talking literally the last few years. The market for residency positions is extremely tight. Almost every position that can be filled is filled. No one wants a residency quitter/jumper when they have their pick of eager candidates (including U.S. graduates) without such black marks on their resumes.

Don't be giving out that "follow your heart" BS advice, as that is certain to doom his medical career prematurely more than anything else.

No one said that switching out is impossible, but it's something that would need to be executed quietly, with a great deal of craftiness and precision. It's certainly a high risk move (don't know how the PD will react), which is why sticking it out at the current position (with guaranteed track to becoming an Attending of some sort) should always be given strong consideration. Quitting 2 months in and looking for something else is about the most idiotic move at this point in time.

 

[VentJockey]

I can really sympathize with the OP. My first rotation of residency went super well, and now my current rotation is like living in hell. I really, really want to quit. But I'm not going to quit. My career is the only good thing I have going, and I'll suffer through a hell of a lot of misery before I put that in jeopardy.

So, what am I going to do about my problems? Well...tomorrow I'm going to have a conversation with the Senior resident. Hopefully he will be able to help me. On Saturday, my day off, I'm going to go see a psychiatrist. There are very few bad feelings the right drugs can't numb. And, I'm guessing someone who has been through a residency might also have some words of wisdom.

I was in tears as I drove home from work today due to how frustrated I am. But even if I have to lock myself in the bathroom and cry, that is what I will do, then wash my face and move forward. Believe me, quitting has crossed my mind. It will cross my mind again and again. But my career is literally the only good thing I have going in my life. I can't give it up when I have worked so hard and already sacrificed so much to have it.

So, to the OP: I hear you, I think we're probably feeling the same frustrations right now. But I urge you to try to take a proactive approach to make things in your residency better. You'll end up being glad you did.

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Thanks, I feel like I've gotten a lot of cold response. Thanks for the reality check. For the more warm feedback, thanks for the hope...I don't want to quit just right away, I would quit as soon as they find someone new of their liking. I wouldn't want to screw over coworkers. I just realized this specialty isn't for me that's all...anyways I know it's rare but it is possible. Id like to think there are more program directors that are human beings and realize people switch sometimes than are not...

I will look for backups while I try switching...but if I don't find anything then ill just have to drop because my hearts not into it and its not fair to me or anyone else

 

[brotherman]

My advice, suck it up and stick it out. Do whatever it takes. Transferring to a new residency is near impossible given the glut of fresh unblemished graduates.

 

[killerleaf]

I can only speak for my program, at this institution:
Budgets are tight. If one of our residents quits or dies, their spot will not be filled. We only match for PGY1; you have already done a TY year, so you are ineligible anyway. Even if the above were not the case; I know from past situtations: You would have to convince the PD that you are not a flight risk; that if you join us, you are going to stick with it to the end. If you cannot do that convincingly, then you aren't going to get a spot. It does not make a program look good if there are people quitting. Even if it is just one...that raises questions as to why.

 

[Arthrocity]

My advice, suck it up and stick it out. Do whatever it takes. Transferring to a new residency is near impossible given the glut of fresh unblemished graduates.

This is the most ridiculous advice ever. Tons of residents switch - at my own program, several of the residents have switched-from other institutions, from other specialties, etc. It's incredibly common. There is no "blemish" in having started another residency. It is 100% feasible to transfer to a different program.

 

[Top Gun]

This is the most ridiculous advice ever. Tons of residents switch - at my own program, several of the residents have switched-from other institutions, from other specialties, etc. It's incredibly common. There is no "blemish" in having started another residency. It is 100% feasible to transfer to a different program.

Are you for real????

Transferring to a different residency is hardly as easy as you claim. In the first place, there is already a limited number of spots available. Second, when you interview at a new program, the PD at that program is going to ask for a letter from your former PD, which s/he may not even choose to give you. Or, if s/he does, the PD could very well decide to trash-talk you in the letter. Your former PD is not going to be happy about allowing you to leave your current program, as you are leaving him/her with a spot to fill, and now your co-residents have to take up the slack. Also, the call schedule will be messed up.

In addition, a PD at a second program is going to question why you want to transfer to that program, and whether you will be able to commit to it. If I were a PD, I would have serious reservations about taking on someone who decided to quit after doing only two months of residency. How would I know the applicant wouldn't do something similar a few months after transferring into my program?

And suppose you do not land another residency. Your PD could very well decide to fire you or not renew your contract, and then your career is over.

There is a lot to be said for sucking it up and sticking it out. You should have had an idea what you were getting into when you decided to apply for residency. You should have had an idea whether you liked the specialty or residency program enough to commit to it. If you didn't like the specialty or residency, then you shouldn't have even ranked it. Once you rank and match into a program, then you have made a commitment and you should stick to it.

 

[Arthrocity]

Are you for real????

Transferring to a different residency is hardly as easy as you claim. In the first place, there is already a limited number of spots available. Second, when you interview at a new program, the PD at that program is going to ask for a letter from your former PD, which s/he may not even choose to give you. Or, if s/he does, the PD could very well decide to trash-talk you in the letter. Your former PD is not going to be happy about allowing you to leave your current program, as you are leaving him/her with a spot to fill, and now your co-residents have to take up the slack. Also, the call schedule will be messed up.

In addition, a PD at a second program is going to question why you want to transfer to that program, and whether you will be able to commit to it. If I were a PD, I would have serious reservations about taking on someone who decided to quit after doing only two months of residency. How would I know the applicant wouldn't do something similar a few months after transferring into my program?

And suppose you do not land another residency. Your PD could very well decide to fire you or not renew your contract, and then your career is over.

There is a lot to be said for sucking it up and sticking it out. You should have had an idea what you were getting into when you decided to apply for residency. You should have had an idea whether you liked the specialty or residency program enough to commit to it. If you didn't like the specialty or residency, then you shouldn't have even ranked it. Once you rank and match into a program, then you have made a commitment and you should stick to it.

You must be in a malignant field like surgery. If a PD "trash talks you" you can definitely take legal action for libel and win big for one. If you are suggesting that any normal, adult attending is going to do something like that, perhaps you should evaluate your program or the people you know who would do that. I have yet to know of a PD who has done that. And if you think that would not bring serious legal consequences, perhaps you have not been in the real world. Many many people change their minds of their specialty. Any normal PD would understand that.

So your suggestion that the evil PD is going to try to ruin someone is absurd. In regards to your comment about landing a new position that needs to be done in an intelligent fashion. If you apply and get a large # of interviews, it's safe to talk to your PD. And if you think that most programs care, then again I have no idea what field you are in. I have spoken with a number of PDs regarding my intent to switch, and most of them encouraged me to apply. One very elite program even told me that they were committed to making it happen and would accept me into their program, not to mention that they thought i was making a wise choice by switching. MANY programs are perfectly fine with residents switching. No normal program/PD would want a miserable resident. If you do not land a different residency, then there is no point in your PD firing you, as they still would have a vacant spot so it's not the most likely thing. PD's are not monsters out to get people fyi. Even at my own program, one of the residents was initially an IM resident in the same institution who transferred into our program. He was allowed to go into/complete her second year since he otherwise would have a gap year.

There is nothing to be said about "sticking it out" about a specialty you don't like. Period. It's absolutely mind numingly ridiculous to tell someone who has spent 8+ years of their life training to "stick it out" in a specialty they don't like. If you said a program that's a different story. But if you don't like the specialty, it is what it is.

Perhaps you should open your horizons and speak to people who have actually switched, of which there are many. I personally know numerous people who have switched.

 

[jdh71]

You must be in a malignant field like surgery. If a PD "trash talks you" you can definitely take legal action for libel and win big for one. If you are suggesting that any normal, adult attending is going to do something like that, perhaps you should evaluate your program or the people you know who would do that. I have yet to know of a PD who has done that. And if you think that would not bring serious legal consequences, perhaps you have not been in the real world. Many many people change their minds of their specialty. Any normal PD would understand that.

So your suggestion that the evil PD is going to try to ruin someone is absurd. In regards to your comment about landing a new position that needs to be done in an intelligent fashion. If you apply and get a large # of interviews, it's safe to talk to your PD. And if you think that most programs care, then again I have no idea what field you are in. I have spoken with a number of PDs regarding my intent to switch, and most of them encouraged me to apply. One very elite program even told me that they were committed to making it happen and would accept me into their program, not to mention that they thought i was making a wise choice by switching. MANY programs are perfectly fine with residents switching. No normal program/PD would want a miserable resident. If you do not land a different residency, then there is no point in your PD firing you, as they still would have a vacant spot so it's not the most likely thing. PD's are not monsters out to get people fyi. Even at my own program, one of the residents was initially an IM resident in the same institution who transferred into our program. He was allowed to go into/complete her second year since he otherwise would have a gap year.

There is nothing to be said about "sticking it out" about a specialty you don't like. Period. It's absolutely mind numingly ridiculous to tell someone who has spent 8+ years of their life training to "stick it out" in a specialty they don't like. If you said a program that's a different story. But if you don't like the specialty, it is what it is.

Perhaps you should open your horizons and speak to people who have actually switched, of which there are many. I personally know numerous people who have switched.

This is a total ad hominem and I'm going to own it up front . . . you are a naive idiot.

That is all.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The truth likely lies between the two extremes posted in this thread.

Not every NRMP match is made in heaven. Applicants only get 1 day to see a program, and they may end up unhappy. Life events happen unexpectedly. People change their minds about fields. It happens. Some fields are more understanding, some are less. Some PD's will be more understanding, and some less.

On the other hand, some residents underperform. Some lack medical knowledge and/or patient care skills. Some have terrible communication or team based skills. Some lack technical skills. Programs also have to pick residents based upon their applications and 1 day of interviewing, and the system isn't perfect.

So, if you're thinking of changing from one program or field to another, other PD's are going to be trying to figure out what camp you fall into. Are you a great resident who simply ended up in the wrong field? Or do you have a personality problem that will be an issue in any field?

Several rules of thumb:

1. Remember that it's not all about what you want / need. If you leave a program, you often leave more work for others to do. Hence, you need to consider the effect your leaving the program will have on your colleagues. This means giving enough notice such that the program can find someone new / adjust schedules, etc.

2. It's really important to have your PD's support, if possible.

3. If you don't have your PD's support, and you followed rule #1, then one of two issues is usually at play -- A) your PD is a jerk; or B) you have a personality disorder / problem. In case B, you usually blame the problem on your PD. Hence, you can see why when you apply to a program and complain that your prior PD was a jerk, why I would worry about that.

4. If you apply to two different specialties, then don't get a spot in A and instead match in B, it is very bad form to come to me 1-2 months in and say you're applying again to specialty A. This is like getting engaged to someone, yet deciding to continue to date people "just to be sure". If your plan is to re-apply to specialty A if you do not match, then match into a prelim or don't match at all. If you match into your backup, then that's a commitment you have made.

 

[Top Gun]

You must be in a malignant field like surgery. If a PD "trash talks you" you can definitely take legal action for libel and win big for one. If you are suggesting that any normal, adult attending is going to do something like that, perhaps you should evaluate your program or the people you know who would do that. I have yet to know of a PD who has done that. And if you think that would not bring serious legal consequences, perhaps you have not been in the real world. Many many people change their minds of their specialty. Any normal PD would understand that.

So your suggestion that the evil PD is going to try to ruin someone is absurd. In regards to your comment about landing a new position that needs to be done in an intelligent fashion. If you apply and get a large # of interviews, it's safe to talk to your PD. And if you think that most programs care, then again I have no idea what field you are in. I have spoken with a number of PDs regarding my intent to switch, and most of them encouraged me to apply. One very elite program even told me that they were committed to making it happen and would accept me into their program, not to mention that they thought i was making a wise choice by switching. MANY programs are perfectly fine with residents switching. No normal program/PD would want a miserable resident. If you do not land a different residency, then there is no point in your PD firing you, as they still would have a vacant spot so it's not the most likely thing. PD's are not monsters out to get people fyi. Even at my own program, one of the residents was initially an IM resident in the same institution who transferred into our program. He was allowed to go into/complete her second year since he otherwise would have a gap year.

There is nothing to be said about "sticking it out" about a specialty you don't like. Period. It's absolutely mind numingly ridiculous to tell someone who has spent 8+ years of their life training to "stick it out" in a specialty they don't like. If you said a program that's a different story. But if you don't like the specialty, it is what it is.

Perhaps you should open your horizons and speak to people who have actually switched, of which there are many. I personally know numerous people who have switched.

Actually no, I'm not in surgery. I'm an internist in private practice, who graduated from one of the most benign programs out there. And while admittedly most PDs have enough class not to trash talk a resident in their letters, there are some that have done so. Read some of the threads on this forum, and you'll find out. Even if the PD is not malignant, the letter s/he writes for you is probably going to be lukewarm at best.

And no, you shouldn't talk to your PD if you have a lot of interviews. You should wait until you have another residency spot secured. You could get a lot of residency interviews and still not match. And then you'd be screwed. The PD could still decide not to renew your contract because s/he would think you're not interested in remaining with the current program any longer.

And no, switching is not done all the time as you seem to think. Most residents stick with their program for the entire 3-5 years and graduate. Residents who successfully switch are not all that common. Some residents who have tried to switch have ultimately had their careers come to an end, because they could not land a spot elsewhere. Do you honestly think another PD might not question an applicant's commitment if s/he was seeking to transfer? And as I already explained to you, spots in other residency programs are limited if you are looking to transfer.

No one should try to do a specialty that they hate. But shouldn't you have thought about whether you would like the specialty before you even applied? Shouldn't you have attempted to gain as much clinical experience in the specialty (i.e. audition rotations, subinternships, etc..) as possible before applying so you would have an idea of what the specialty would be like? By the time you apply for residency, you should know whether you can actually see yourself doing the specialty for the rest of your life. You don't have to be in love with your specialty, but you should actually like doing it. Of course, if you don't like the program, that's a different story. Some programs put on a good show during interview season, but turn out to be very malignant or provide a poor educational experience.

And by the way, there is no need for personal attacks. I haven't done that with you in case you haven't noticed.

 

[Chocolateagar04]

The truth likely lies between the two extremes posted in this thread.

Not every NRMP match is made in heaven. Applicants only get 1 day to see a program, and they may end up unhappy. Life events happen unexpectedly. People change their minds about fields. It happens. Some fields are more understanding, some are less. Some PD's will be more understanding, and some less.

On the other hand, some residents underperform. Some lack medical knowledge and/or patient care skills. Some have terrible communication or team based skills. Some lack technical skills. Programs also have to pick residents based upon their applications and 1 day of interviewing, and the system isn't perfect.

So, if you're thinking of changing from one program or field to another, other PD's are going to be trying to figure out what camp you fall into. Are you a great resident who simply ended up in the wrong field? Or do you have a personality problem that will be an issue in any field?

Several rules of thumb:

1. Remember that it's not all about what you want / need. If you leave a program, you often leave more work for others to do. Hence, you need to consider the effect your leaving the program will have on your colleagues. This means giving enough notice such that the program can find someone new / adjust schedules, etc.

2. It's really important to have your PD's support, if possible.

3. If you don't have your PD's support, and you followed rule #1, then one of two issues is usually at play -- A) your PD is a jerk; or B) you have a personality disorder / problem. In case B, you usually blame the problem on your PD. Hence, you can see why when you apply to a program and complain that your prior PD was a jerk, why I would worry about that.

4. If you apply to two different specialties, then don't get a spot in A and instead match in B, it is very bad form to come to me 1-2 months in and say you're applying again to specialty A. This is like getting engaged to someone, yet deciding to continue to date people "just to be sure". If your plan is to re-apply to specialty A if you do not match, then match into a prelim or don't match at all. If you match into your backup, then that's a commitment you have made.

Thanks aProg. Your advice seems much more reasonable than the others. I think if Im just respectable about it my prog director will be a normal human being and be understanding that I just want to pursue a different specialty rather than be miserable doing something i dont like for the rest of my life.

Its not like I plan to abruptly quit, ill stay until they find someone new. I know that leaving will cause a lot of scheduling headaches so Ill try to be as diplomatic about it as possible.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thanks aProg. Your advice seems much more reasonable than the others. I think if Im just respectable about it my prog director will be a normal human being and be understanding that I just want to pursue a different specialty rather than be miserable doing something i dont like for the rest of my life.

Its not like I plan to abruptly quit, ill stay until they find someone new. I know that leaving will cause a lot of scheduling headaches so Ill try to be as diplomatic about it as possible.

Staying the full year is going to likely be better than leaving mid-year. Looking in your past history, I see that you are a DO resident that found an ACGME transitional year of some sort. Now you are in your picked PGY2 field and don't like it. You had criticisms of rounding and having to know all that medicine when you were on IM rotations. Frankly, the only specialities where you won't have to know all that medicine is going to be psych, radiology, or pathology. Psych or path could be options. I'm not sure about radiology, that would depend on how competitive a candidate you'd be as well as what your current and past PD might say about you. This is an uphill climb for you.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

ha ha, of all people, it's jdh. it's been ages.

in any case. a bit about me: I quit my residency after one month several years back. It was not a family or life emergency. It was a very boring reason : this residency was such a poor choice on my part, that I couldn't see myself being in that environment for one more day. We are all human, even MDs, if you could believe that for a second. I made a poor judgment by choosing what I chose, and I paid for it by doing research for one year without getting paid.

But never did I think my (professional, MD) life was over. In one year, I found an awesome residency, in another specialty that I love.

Now, I am not saying that my example is the norm, or that OP should quit. Absolutely not!
But if the worst happens, OP, your life as a doctor is not over. unless you are gunning for derm.

I don't even understand how people can decide that one specialty or program or whatever is totally unsuitable for them after 1-2 months. At that point, you have barely been given a taste of what life is really like in the specialty/program, and you've only been on a couple rotations at most. You're still getting used to everything. You still don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

While I totally agree that the match process has its limitations and applicants may end up getting 'baited and switched' by a program, it usually takes some time for this to become apparent. Unless you match a super malignant program where attendings are screaming at residents on a daily basis or something, I just don't see how you have enough information at that point to decide that program x is absolutely not for you.

Anyone bailing out that quickly needed to think things over better as an applicant.

 

[lisichka]

Unfortunately, your anecdotal experience is 100% irrelevant. Things have changed a lot. And I'm not talking about decades here, I'm talking literally the last few years. The market for residency positions is extremely tight. Almost every position that can be filled is filled. No one wants a residency quitter/jumper when they have their pick of eager candidates (including U.S. graduates) without such black marks on their resumes.

Don't be giving out that "follow your heart" BS advice, as that is certain to doom his medical career prematurely more than anything else.

No one said that switching out is impossible, but it's something that would need to be executed quietly, with a great deal of craftiness and precision. It's certainly a high risk move (don't know how the PD will react), which is why sticking it out at the current position (with guaranteed track to becoming an Attending of some sort) should always be given strong consideration. Quitting 2 months in and looking for something else is about the most idiotic move at this point in time.

this again proves my point. also quoting things I never said is just in bad taste. very tacky.

 

[J ROD]

I say you give it a little more time. You chose this specialty for a reason afterall.

I would not risk my career and future. I would just suck it up and finish it.

 

[shojimoji]

Define "all the time." Yes, there are people who do what you are planning to do, however they tend to tough out the year in question unless it's malignant. Since you're being coy about your matched specialty, and since you mentioned a TY and rounding, I'm going to guess you're in PMR or Neuro....

Are you competitive enough for Rads or Gas?

When FM isn't rounding, they're doing well child checks, managing diabetics who see a foot amputation as a "cost of doing business" and getting called to L&D for deliveries. Does that sound better than what you've got now?

You need to sit down with someone who knows you (med school mentor, somebody you clicked with from your TY) and really think this through.

If a program is malignant do you suggest quitting?

 

[PMR_doc]

I wouldn't do that - what specialty are you in? Do you not like the specialty that you are in or do you not like the program? If you like the specialty but not the program it really depends on how competitive the specialty is. If you are in derm I say stick it out. If you are in IM or something like that and don't like the program I would say look for a spot and then change. If you just hate the specialty and you are sure of it, then start looking for spots in a different specialty you might like. That's what I would do.

I would not just quit - not only do you have the 45 day clause but typically there is a certain type of time committment when you quit - typically 2 or 3 months. Also just quitting if you plan to continue in medicine is not a good idea. It will be difficult to match with just a few months of residency, it would be far more strategic for you to continue in your program and start looking for other positions, and trying to nab a position while you are still in residency.

So I decided I want to quit my residency program....I'm waiting for the 45 days I'm obligated by the NRMP and then I'm going to approach my program director and give them my 30 day notice....

I just don't like what in Doing I don't like patients, don't like rounding, I'm stressed everyday and it's just not worth it considering i don't really like my chosen specialty that much anymore

Anyways, is this going to be disastrous to my career? I figured I could just reapply for next cycle and or find an open pgy2 position somewhere for family anesthesia rads or something and join them....

I finished step 3 and TY year although didnt do too hot on step 3.

Any ideas of what to do in my time off?

Thanks.

 

[candbgirl]

You know this thread is from 2013 right?