I'm lost! Low GPA, low MCAT.

[ljt33]

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I graduated from UCSD 2003 w/ a BS in bio. My AMCAS GPAs are the following: BCPM 2.51, Cum 2.72, other 3.11. I have taken the MCAT 3 times: 8/01 (26: 8V, 10P, 8B), 8/02 (24: 6V, 8P, 10B), 8/04 (25: 7V, 8P, 10B). I received a D in a Neuro class. I took the class again, and received another D. I didn't really focus too much on my classes. The material was interesting, I just didn't set enough time to study. I spent most of my time w/ my extracurric activities, which provided an immediate feeling of satisfaction. I was an officer in a premed service club and was involved in several volunteer activities: hosp for 2 yrs, convles home 1 yr, went to mexico to help run a free clinic, tutored kids, took BP for church for 1 yr, worked at lab for 1 yr. After graduation, I was really discouraged by my GPA and MCAT so I decided to explore other options. I worked at a doctor's office for a yr as a medical assistant. I felt so limited working in this position. I wanted more. I started a new job working for a tissue bank. I currently screen dead bodies to look for potential tissue donors. Evenutally I will be trained to recover tissue. Yet, even w/ this job I know I will not be satisfied. I cannot let go of my dream of becoming a doctor.

I am absolutely motivated and determined to become a doctor. I just do not know what my next step should be. Should I apply last minute Dec 2004 to get a rejection letter so that I have more choices when applying to a postbac? (meaning I can have the option of applying to postbacs for reapplicants) Should I spend a year re-taking all my science classes starting Jan 2005 instead of applying to a post bac and then take the MCAT April 2006? I feel so lost because I don't have a plan of attack. The last time I spoke w/ my premed advisor, she discouraged me from applying and advised me to explore other careers.

Please help and be absolutely honest. Thank you in advance!

 

[docquaker]

most post-bac/masters programs have a minimum gpa requirement of 3.0. my two cents...

1. if you did bad in orgo, i would retake that.

2. if you want to go US MD, you would probably have to do a post-bac/masters program and kick butt in it. you would have to retake the mcat and score 30+. i would highly recommend a prep course. they will teach you the tricks that the mcat sets for test takers. but even after all that, it will be an uphill battle. you may want to look into drexel's post-bacc programs. they have one where you retake all of the prereqs and if you do well, you go into their masters program where you take med school classes with the med students.

3. look into US DO programs. i'm at one right now and there really isn't much of a difference. DO programs usually have less stringent GPA and MCAT averages too. avg. mcat for DO schools is 24, so you're right around average. they also look at the whole person...your list of extracurricular's is pretty impressive.

4. if you must have a MD, think about the caribbean. although i would recommend DO over the caribbean, but that's just my opinion.

good luck.

 

[benelswick]

Ok I think you're going to have to level with yourself. I mean a good long hard look at what is practical and what is not. Three times taking the MCAT and only mid 20's.......something to look at straight up. Under 3.0 cummulative with a lot of credits to weigh down any improvement no matter how well you do, and some glaringly bad grades in science.

I'd say this in total puts you at the absolute back of the pack in this race starting now. The easiest thing for you my friend is a short cut--Carribean or DO.

If I were you I would take some science classes ala carte take the MCAT one more time as I was applying to DO schools with the realization that I am Carribean bound in all probability. Do your research. Find out how to do well in one of the better carribean schools because its the third world and it aint for wimps. You'll be own your own with nobody holding your hand and it will be up to you to hustle your way back stateside for clinical training. Difficult but doable for the daring.

Otherwise your looking at 5 years or more of total reconstructive surgery on your application also difficult but doable but only for the daring. If your young the latter may be worth it, but if you're older like me go get some shorts and flip flops. Good Luck my friend.--Ben

 

[Vince]

Okay...few pieces of advice. I too did lots of extracurriculars, especially medically oriented, and my GPA wasn't any better than yours, and my MCAT was 26. I got into a DO program and as a 4th year I am content with my education, having done well above average on the USMLE(MD Boards), and my grades in med school are much better than ever before, mostly A's(I think the last time I had grades this good was in 5th grade). It definitely helps if you are interested in the subject more.

Depending on what specialty you want to go into you will do fine becoming a DO. Yes it is probably easier to get into DO school than MD school but in the end I don't think there is much of a difference between the two, although the prejudice is still definitely out there.

But honestly, if I had to do it all over again, I question why I ever went to med school, as it has been some of the most miserable years of my life.

I encourage you to think hard about why you want to become a doctor. If its for prestige, it's not there....if it's for $$, there are plenty of other jobs where you can make more....if its for job satisfaction, there's not much out there, and most doctors I talk to wish they had done something else.

But in the end, if you want to do it, then good luck. Don't retake the MCAT, just take some upper level science classes, which will look good and help your overall and science GPA(as long as you don't get D's, or C's). Some suggestions that would be good prep for med school if you haven't already taken them are: Biochemistry, Cell/Molecular Biology, Immunology, Microbiology, Anatomy, and retake Organic if you got D's in it the first go around(although this class won't help you do better in med school, its just to get in).

 

[exmike]

you should look at carribbean programs. you might be able to get in some of those.

 

[bravotwozero]

I encourage you to think hard about why you want to become a doctor.....if it's for $$, there are plenty of other jobs where you can make more

Such as...? And please don't say CEO/Pro Athlete/Actor or something crazy like that. They all take years of hard work, good connections and LUCK. That's why there's far fewer Donald Trumps than MD's.

 

[Ypo.]

I graduated from UCSD 2003 w/ a BS in bio. My AMCAS GPAs are the following: BCPM 2.51, Cum 2.72, other 3.11. I have taken the MCAT 3 times: 8/01 (26: 8V, 10P, 8B), 8/02 (24: 6V, 8P, 10B), 8/04 (25: 7V, 8P, 10B). I received a D in a Neuro class. I took the class again, and received another D. I didn't really focus too much on my classes. The material was interesting, I just didn't set enough time to study. I spent most of my time w/ my extracurric activities, which provided an immediate feeling of satisfaction. I was an officer in a premed service club and was involved in several volunteer activities: hosp for 2 yrs, convles home 1 yr, went to mexico to help run a free clinic, tutored kids, took BP for church for 1 yr, worked at lab for 1 yr. After graduation, I was really discouraged by my GPA and MCAT so I decided to explore other options. I worked at a doctor's office for a yr as a medical assistant. I felt so limited working in this position. I wanted more. I started a new job working for a tissue bank. I currently screen dead bodies to look for potential tissue donors. Evenutally I will be trained to recover tissue. Yet, even w/ this job I know I will not be satisfied. I cannot let go of my dream of becoming a doctor.

I am absolutely motivated and determined to become a doctor. I just do not know what my next step should be. Should I apply last minute Dec 2004 to get a rejection letter so that I have more choices when applying to a postbac? (meaning I can have the option of applying to postbacs for reapplicants) Should I spend a year re-taking all my science classes starting Jan 2005 instead of applying to a post bac and then take the MCAT April 2006? I feel so lost because I don't have a plan of attack. The last time I spoke w/ my premed advisor, she discouraged me from applying and advised me to explore other careers.

Please help and be absolutely honest. Thank you in advance!

OK, I will be honest and attempt to be as helpful as I can, because I am sympathetic to your situation.

Your first MCAT score shows that you are smart enough to do well in medical school, but your GPA doesn't back that up. You say you are totally motivated and determined to become a doctor-well didn't you realize this includes getting the grades to back up that statement? Did this realization kick in after you graduated? I'm just trying to show you the way the ADCOMS will be looking at your app.

Listen to me closely here. You will have to retake those classes many, many times before you could ever hope to bring your GPA up to an acceptable level for MD schools (most won't even look at your app if your GPA isn't above a 3.0), and even then given your history of mediocre to poor grades, you would have to score upwards of 33 to get seriously looked at by an MD school. Seeing as how you have taken the MCAT three times without being able to break a 30, I would say your best bet are either DO schools, or caribbean schools. Keep in mind that the AACOMAS (app service for DO schools) calculates GPA differently than AMCAS. For retakes, they only consider the most recent grade you got in a class. This means if you took Ochem 20 times, and the last time you finally passed with a 3.0, you only have the 3.0 incorporated into your GPA, and not all the 0.0s. This could substantially raise your GPA and make it competetive for DO schools. All three of your MCATs are acceptable for DO schools (most schools like to see a total MCAT of 24 or higher, with 26 being the average for many DO schools). Your ECs (extracurriculars) are good, but if you consider applying DO, you will need to shadow a DO, and it would help to get a DO recommendation (SOME of the schools require it, some don't). Also, observing some OMT wouldn't hurt.

My suggestion would be to figure out what your GPA is under the AACOMAS rules. You might find out its a lot higher than the AMCAS calculation. If you are interested in learning more about DO schools and applying, PM me. For your info, I am a reapplicant this year and have been accepted into both MD and DO schools. I am now having a hard time deciding between the two. I wish I had learned about DO schools last year when I was going thru the hell of applying, so I'm willing to help you out if you are interested.

 

[pratik7]

I think that if you are applying to DO or maybe some state MD schools your 26 will not be a deal breaker. However, with a 2.7 GPA it is going to be very difficult to get into any school. Realistically, its going to be very difficult to get your GPA over a 3.3. So i would say retake the MCAT and some higher level bio classes.

 

[Vince]

Such as...? And please don't say CEO/Pro Athlete/Actor or something crazy like that. They all take years of hard work, good connections and LUCK. That's why there's far fewer Donald Trumps than MD's.

You name it, if you are successful there's no limit. The nice thing about being a physician that I will admit, is job security. You can pretty much guarantee that you won't be unemployed.

I looked at some websites and you can make six figures in engineering, advertising, sales and marketing, etc. Heck you can be a drug-rep and do pretty well. If you factor in med school debt, which of course can vary depending on your school, and the 3-5 years of post graduate training with accruing interest.....you can be making a pretty good living compared to the physician just out of residency(depending on specialty).

And if you factor in the misery of medical school, I wonder what that's worth.....hmmmmmm.......

And yes bravotwozero, I should have played more golf growing up because that could be a pretty good living too. 😀

 

[DOJDEE]

wow man... that will be like really tough... hate to say it, but why did you retake classes only to get the same low grade? and your mcat is going downhill. the mcat is knowledge based and with no improvement in your grades when retaking them makes you look even worse than an applicant with the same mcat/gpa but no retakes. ecs are typically deal makers in an otherwise even situation. if you have like a dad or mom who is a president of a medical school, i would start using them right about now... you should check out the schools, most of them have a minimum gpa above yours. the mcat wont kill your app but it wont help... good luck.......

 

[stapes]

As it stands right now, you are not competitive to get straight into medical school. But I do think that you can get into a postbac program. These have worked out well for many people. I do not think that you should spend effort retaking the neuro class. Start working at this point on getting into a postbac program that will consider you for admissions into the med school if you do well. When you start the postbac program, quit working and focus all your efforts on your classes. It will do you no good if you do not do well in it, and you will be back to square one. I would atleast try this path before you start looking into caribbean medical schools. I went through a similar story as yours. I am now a 4th yr medical student. I am happy with my decision to persevere to get in to medical school, but it has not been an easy road, there are a lot of hoops that you have to jump through to get to the end. And when you get to the end there are still more politics involved, so you have to be sure that you really want it for the right reasons.

 

[stinkycheese]

I am absolutely motivated and determined to become a doctor. I just do not know what my next step should be. ... The last time I spoke w/ my premed advisor, she discouraged me from applying and advised me to explore other careers.

I don't think you are motivated and determined. You like the action, the fun stuff, the extracurrics, but do you realize that you're going to have to make yourself study a whole lot more if you actually get to medical school? It's not all fun and games and playing doctor. You can't improve (as shown by your repeated D's and bad MCAT's) and you don't seem to understand what this career entails. Your advisor doesn't support your application. You are in an awful position and I don't see that you really have the drive to do better. I would look into PA school or NP.

 

[DrKT2009]

I graduated from UCSD 2003 w/ a BS in bio. My AMCAS GPAs are the following: BCPM 2.51, Cum 2.72, other 3.11. I have taken the MCAT 3 times: 8/01 (26: 8V, 10P, 8B), 8/02 (24: 6V, 8P, 10B), 8/04 (25: 7V, 8P, 10B). I received a D in a Neuro class. I took the class again, and received another D. I didn't really focus too much on my classes. The material was interesting, I just didn't set enough time to study. I spent most of my time w/ my extracurric activities, which provided an immediate feeling of satisfaction. I was an officer in a premed service club and was involved in several volunteer activities: hosp for 2 yrs, convles home 1 yr, went to mexico to help run a free clinic, tutored kids, took BP for church for 1 yr, worked at lab for 1 yr. After graduation, I was really discouraged by my GPA and MCAT so I decided to explore other options. I worked at a doctor's office for a yr as a medical assistant. I felt so limited working in this position. I wanted more. I started a new job working for a tissue bank. I currently screen dead bodies to look for potential tissue donors. Evenutally I will be trained to recover tissue. Yet, even w/ this job I know I will not be satisfied. I cannot let go of my dream of becoming a doctor.

I am absolutely motivated and determined to become a doctor. I just do not know what my next step should be. Should I apply last minute Dec 2004 to get a rejection letter so that I have more choices when applying to a postbac? (meaning I can have the option of applying to postbacs for reapplicants) Should I spend a year re-taking all my science classes starting Jan 2005 instead of applying to a post bac and then take the MCAT April 2006? I feel so lost because I don't have a plan of attack. The last time I spoke w/ my premed advisor, she discouraged me from applying and advised me to explore other careers.

Please help and be absolutely honest. Thank you in advance!

I am going to attempt to help you out even though you are definitely in a spot. I hope I can help you. If you are really "motivated and determined to become a doctor" you are going to have to start showing it ASAP. Your approach is going to depend on whether you want to go to an MD, DO, or Caribbean school. Once you know this, then it will be easier to know whether you should or should not retake the MCAT. Since your gpa is very low, you will most definitely need to compensate by getting a high MCAT (I am just not sure how high you will need to go). You can call the medical school to see if they have admission's counselers, and they will be able to help you further. If you do take it again, you will have to study as you have never studied before -- especially on the physical science and verbal section since your score fell in these sections. I took the MCAT several times as well, and some schools even take a composite score (you would just have to call and ask). As for the gpa thing, I would try to get into a graduate program of some kind that is offered in your state. Even though my gpa in undergrad was definitely not the problem, my MCAT score was; therefore, I took a 1 year Biology Masters Non-Thesis program while I retook the MCAT (the verbal section pretty much kept me out of med school at first). It was a good program since it was only a year, and I was able to take some more 500+ level biology classes. This type of route may work best for you; however, depending on what your other grades are, you may be lacking the science base that you need to do well in these classes. You will just probably have to take the general GRE exam and hope for a good score. The GRE exam is computerized so you get your score immediately, so if you need to retake that test, you will know before you leave the test.

I am not saying that it is impossible for you to get into medical school, but you would seriously have to work harder than you ever have before. If you go into one of these programs, you should definitely not work and you should focus completely on your classes. At least if you do a graduate program, your graduate gpa is separate from your undergrad gpa. Then if you are motivated and determined and study out of your mind, your gpa may be a 3.5 or above. This would at least show the admissions office that you are able to do upper level classes and do well in them. You will still have to explain your undergraduate gpa, and I do not think "I didn't really focus too much on my classes" is going to go over too well with them. In med school, you are not only spending the majority of your free time studying and going to classes, but you are also going to be doing things in your community (at least a lot of med schools want you to). Medical school definitely requires time management skills and motivation, and you will have to prove to them that you do have these qualities. You have plenty of extracurricular activities on your resume, and you have medical experience. Now you need to focus on studying.

What you end up doing is going to have a lot to do with what type of school you decide to go. I think you have enough extracurricular activities, so I would suggest just focus on your gpa problem like I had mentioned above. However, for either an MD or DO school you will need to definitely get your gpa up. I am not sure what the Caribbean stats are, but I have heard that St. George's is very good. I think there are a couple of good ones, but there are also very bad ones. Just call and see what their residency placement stats are and find out their board pass rates. If they do not know these stats, then I would try another school. I have just heard one of the bad things about the Caribbean schools is that they don't have a lot of resources (eg. it may take you hours to get one thing off of the internet). So, that most likely will compromise your education even if they have great teachers. I have also heard that it is harder to get into residency programs, so you would most likely have to be at the top of your class. Several people with some authority have told me that it is hard to get into a U.S. medical school, but hard to flunk out. However, with the Caribbean schools, it is easier to get in but also easier to flunk out. That is just what I have heard, and I had talked to someone that went to a Caribbean school and she even said the resources were scarce.

If you have any questions or need any more advice, I would be glad to try to help you out.

I hope this helps. Good luck.