Im so pissed

[mrivera]

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Its not fair that people who are not even good at science can fly over to the carribean and get MD, while the people here work 2392390472390479023 times more, get much better stats, and end up with the same title... i know a few people with low 3.0 GPAs and misreable MCATs(19-20) who are SHOWING OFF that they are going to Med school at these random schools in the carribean.. it drives me nuts that they think they are all smart now... OH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE PARENTS... one lady told my mom that her daughter would be recieving world class education over there.... Sometimes I just want to ask them.. if you're so smart, why did you have to go all the way there and study Medicine?

EVERYONE CAN GET CAN IN

 

[anonymousername]

life's tough...man up and deal with it

 

[brooklynblunder]

you know that they have to pass their boards too right?

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Whine whine whine. Who cares. If they pass all three steps then they have proven themselves to know medicine just as well as any American trained MD. Well actually the ones who get >230 know more than those who got 200, but you know what I mean. Not everyone who goes to the Carib. is "bad at science". There are plenty of people who have GPA numbers that reflect their true ability because of whatever life-troubles they may have had during their college career. Worry about yourself.

 

[elementals]

Wait... why does this piss you off? Why don't you just apply to the Carib schools yourself if it annoys you so much that it's "easier" to get an MD there?

 

[BlueElmo]

Who cares? Just do your stuff and stop caring what others are doing.

 

[osumc2014]

their 3rd year req domestic rotations, that means they have to come back to the states, and move around the country for each rotation, really annoying actually

 

[Aromatic Amine]

OP, have you gotten accepted to medical school yet?

who knows, you might end up there too...
no one knows where life is going to take them.

i knew someone who had a 3.7 and was a very smart person, but just couldn't do well on the MCAT, and was forced to go to the carib... NOT everyone who goes there is a complete idiot.

so stop whining and just concentrate on yourself, and not those who you think "have it easy."

 

[osumc2014]

Also...if you truly think they have it easy, then why wouldn't everyone do it? even the smart ones...

 

[marble30]

You probably haven't heard of Caribbean med school attrition rates if you think they got it easy...

 

[artx2008]

Also...if you truly think they have it easy, then why wouldn't everyone do it? even the smart ones...

Why would any person in his own mind would go to a third world country to get any degree?????? Are you nuts???????????????

 

[artx2008]

Its not fair that people who are not even good at science can fly over to the carribean and get MD, while the people here work 2392390472390479023 times more, get much better stats, and end up with the same title... i know a few people with low 3.0 GPAs and misreable MCATs(19-20) who are SHOWING OFF that they are going to Med school at these random schools in the carribean.. it drives me nuts that they think they are all smart now... OH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE PARENTS... one lady told my mom that her daughter would be recieving world class education over there.... Sometimes I just want to ask them.. if you're so smart, why did you have to go all the way there and study Medicine?

EVERYONE CAN GET CAN IN

Relax, nuts need doctors too. Before I go to a physician, I always check his education. I would never go to a doctor from Caribbean medical school.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I don't really see the unfairness of it since US seniors have much better opportunities in terms of residency placement.

 

[artx2008]

I don't really see the unfairness of it since US seniors have much better opportunities in terms of residency placement.

I agree 100%, that's why it only makes me laugh when I hear that someone is accepted to Caribbean medical school.

 

[chman]

Some of the best I advise I have ever gotten was when a wise man told me to never worry about others and only worry about myself. Worrying about what other people are doing is pointless and will bring you nothing but stress over things that you have no control over. The only thing you have control of is you.

Go forth young skywalker.

 

[swamprat]

Relax, nuts need doctors too. Before I go to a physician, I always check his education. I would never go to a doctor from Caribbean medical school.

You do realize that any practicing MD in the US had to pass the boards and has proven themselves worthy to practice medicine up to our standards. There is a reason the schools are accredited and graduates can practice here. Really the only thing thats different when all is said and done is the US grad had a better college GPA and MCAT score. Yes I know the attrition rate and the match % and bla bla bla, but all else aside it doesn't matter.

 

[artx2008]

You do realize that any practicing MD in the US had to pass the boards and has proven themselves worthy to practice medicine up to our standards. There is a reason the schools are accredited and graduates can practice here. Really the only thing thats different when all is said and done is the US grad had a better college GPA and MCAT score. Yes I know the attrition rate and the match % and bla bla bla, but all else aside it doesn't matter.

Every MD passes boards, but it is still difficult to find a good physician. So, I would choose a physician with domestic training and good residency.

 

[Ableton]

I agree 100%, that's why it only makes me laugh when I hear that someone is accepted to Caribbean medical school.

Why would you laugh? Someone else is just trying to fulfill their dream, just like you are. If their path to doing this involves going to the Caribbean, why is that any cause for sneering? You should just focus on yourself and get to where you want to be. No need to put others down.

At the end of the day, the Caribbean graduates need to jump through far many more hoops to get to where you will be. Some of those graduates may even be more competent physicians than yourself. There is no need to make them feel inferior.

Every MD passes boards, but it is still difficult to find a good physician. So, I would choose a physician with domestic training and good residency.

Do you even know what's required of a physician to become board certified?

 

[ButImLETired]

Every MD passes boards, but it is still difficult to find a good physician. So, I would choose a physician with domestic training and good residency.

Thereby making a mistake a whole lot of people make.

1) if someone actually manages to get off those islands with a residency, it means he/she is pretty darn badass. It's not exactly common.

2) I'd say that a lot of people who go into FP from the more well-known schools in the US may have gone into it because they couldn't get in their first choice of specialty, which makes me wonder what happened there...are they bitter?

3) With surgical specialties, you want the guy with the best hands, period. Asking around is a better way to figure out who that is than looking at a pedigree.

4) People who train in very malignant places end up being kind of angry, in my experience. They're often very research-focused and dismissive. By no means always true, but just a pattern I've noticed.

I wouldn't really make assumptions about someone's competency as a physician based on a name on a piece of paper. I'd trust word of mouth and your own experience.

PS- and how do you judge whether a residency is "good" anyway?!

 

[JohnnyExtra]

Honestly, if someone is willing to leave the comfort of the states, bust their ass for four years, pass the boards, and achieve their dreams, I have nothing but respect for them. They wanted it bad enough to make sacrifices US MD/DO grads don't even have to consider. More power to them.

Worry about yourself.

No doubt. 👍

 

[artx2008]

I wouldn't really make assumptions about someone's competency as a physician based on a name on a piece of paper. I'd trust word of mouth and your own experience.

Domestic training and good residency does not guarantee someone's competence, but it is probably a good place to start.
Word of mouth is valuable if you know people in medical field you can ask. I have seen patients who were not treated properly, and they still believed that their physician was very good.

 

[artx2008]

Do you even know what's required of a physician to become board certified?

Residency training + comprehensive examination

 

[ButImLETired]

Domestic training and good residency does not guarantee someone's competence, but it is probably a good place to start.
Word of mouth is valuable if you know people in medical field you can ask. I have seen patients who were not treated properly, and they still believed that their physician was very good.

Well, then I have to ask again- how do you know what a "good residency" is? Even I don't know, and I'm in med school.
As for "domestic training", fyi all caribbean students receive it. The only stuff they do on the islands is the pre-clinical science bs. Honestly, if it weren't for cadaver dissection, preclinicals could be done online. All you have to do is learn enough to do well on Step 1 and move on. Your actual "training" begins as a 3rd year, and they do that in the US, thereby making them equal to us in that sense.

So what's the issue exactly?

 

[Ableton]

Residency training + comprehensive examination

A pretty damn hard comprehensive exam with a paltry passing rate in some specialties.

 

[vin5cent0]

Get over it dude. Boards are the equalizer here. Not to mention, you don't have to be an idiot to go to the caribs, maybe you just messed up or didn't care enough in college. I know for me, I constantly go out when I absolutely know I should stay in and study.. my GPA reflects it.

 

[artx2008]

As for "domestic training", fyi all caribbean students receive it. The only stuff they do on the islands is the pre-clinical science bs. Honestly, if it weren't for cadaver dissection, preclinicals could be done online. All you have to do is learn enough to do well on Step 1 and move on. Your actual "training" begins as a 3rd year, and they do that in the US, thereby making them equal to us in that sense.

That is true; however, the clerkship may not be as good as the ones domestic students do through accredited programs.

So what's the issue exactly?

No issue. Personally, I would just stay away from Caribbean medical school graduates, but I haven't seen any where I live anyway.

 

[artx2008]

Well, then I have to ask again- how do you know what a "good residency" is?

Major medical center with good clinical exposure.

 

[cubssox2000]

Major medical center with good clinical exposure.

Not necessarily. Everyone will have a different idea of what a good residency is. It depends on a lot of factors. Step 1 scores, the persons preference for specialty, the match, class factors, and some other things too. LET is right, there is no way to absolutely define a "good residency". If someone has a mediocre step 1 score and is only average in their class, getting a derm residency (which will probably not happen), even at a small rural hospital with no exposure, could call that a good residency. If someone with an excellent step 1, top 15% does not get into their residency of choice, again lets use derm, but instead matches into emergency at a level 5 trauma center in the middle of a major city could consider that a bad residency. It's all about perspective.

 

[artx2008]

Not necessarily. Everyone will have a different idea of what a good residency is. It depends on a lot of factors. Step 1 scores, the persons preference for specialty, the match, class factors, and some other things too. LET is right, there is no way to absolutely define a "good residency". If someone has a mediocre step 1 score and is only average in their class, getting a derm residency (which will probably not happen), even at a small rural hospital with no exposure, could call that a good residency. If someone with an excellent step 1, top 15% does not get into their residency of choice, again lets use derm, but instead matches into emergency at a level 5 trauma center in the middle of a major city could consider that a bad residency. It's all about perspective.

I see your point. I mean good residency from patient's perspective; I want my physician to have good clinical exposure in his or her field.

 

[FIREitUP]

there's a degree of subjectivity when determining what a "good" residency is, but let's be realistic; one can usually differentiate a good one from a crappy one (i.e., competitive specialties, good hospitals). While I know that many Caribbean trained students are excellent physicians, I feel that the OP is justified in feeling frustrated that people who put much less effort into their pre-med experience can get an MD. It is not like this in many countries. At the same time, they have to suffer through schools that are for-profit and have awful attrition rates (do not care if you pass), get mediocre clerkships, and have a disadvantage going through residencies. So they pay for not working as hard in the long run.

 

[mrivera]

Get over it dude. Boards are the equalizer here. Not to mention, you don't have to be an idiot to go to the caribs, maybe you just messed up or didn't care enough in college. I know for me, I constantly go out when I absolutely know I should stay in and study.. my GPA reflects it.

No the MCAT was the great equilizer, but they somehow were able to bypass that....

 

[circulus vitios]

Relax, nuts need doctors too. Before I go to a physician, I always check his education. I would never go to a doctor from Caribbean medical school.

I go a step further - my physicians must have an Ivy League bachelors and a top-10 medical degree at the bare minimum. Osteopathic? Don't make me laugh! Preferably, they've also done a residency at Hopkins, Mayo, etc. Only the brightest, most highly trained physicians get the privilege of touching this gift to humanity!

 

[schrizto]

Lots of discrimination against Caribbean grads here.

Let's look at it this way, the whole concept of turning out doctors is different with US schools vs. the Caribbean. Caribbean schools do the rooting out in medical school, while US schools weed out during the premed process. I think some foreign countries apply the process similarly to Caribbean schools with their way of turning out doctors in that virtually everyone who applies is accepted but many do not make it in the end. It still turns out competent doctors.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Relax, nuts need doctors too. Before I go to a physician, I always check his education. I would never go to a doctor from Caribbean medical school.

You are a *******.

 

[shiftingmirage]

A lot of people who do the Carib rout do not end with an MD. In the states, I think like 97% or so finish the MD after 6 years (they do 6 because some people have MD/MS which is longer that 4 years). I don't know what the number of Carib students with that stat, but I would think it's in the 80's. Imagine no MD but 40+k/year of debt. Also, there match rates for residencies are far less than those of US grads. The Carib is not the ideal way, and most people down there would tell you they'd much rather gone to an American school.

 

[mrivera]

I'll admit I have been a bit harsh on Carribean schools. I am a competitive person, and I've always liked Medicine because it is one of the most competitive things to get into... seeing this alternative 'easy' path just always bothered me, but like many of you mentioned, I should just worry about my own path...

I'm sure there are many good pre-meds who get rejected, and have to resort to going to Ross, or some other school, and I'm sure they would do well...

And I really need to be careful... if we were targetting schools with low MCAT/GPA standards, the thread could have easily shifted to a mockery on the DO schools as well.

so lets end it here... Im sorry my fellow carribean friends, forgive me for being so 'pissed off'

 

[Gallix23]

I'll admit I have been a bit harsh on Carribean schools. I am a competitive person, and I've always liked Medicine because it is one of the most competitive things to get into... seeing this alternative 'easy' path just always bothered me, but like many of you mentioned, I should just worry about my own path...
'

The EASY path? Maybe numbers wise they are more lenient, but my god Carib MDs need to leave their home country for four years and adjust to a completely different culture and climate just to achieve their goal. If anything, I'd consider this the hard path that would weed out those who aren't dedicated enough to follow through.

 

[futureboy]

www.valuemd.com is a good resource for information about caribbean and other international medical education.

 

[integralx2]

Its not fair that people who are not even good at science can fly over to the carribean and get MD, while the people here work 2392390472390479023 times more, get much better stats, and end up with the same title... i know a few people with low 3.0 GPAs and misreable MCATs(19-20) who are SHOWING OFF that they are going to Med school at these random schools in the carribean.. it drives me nuts that they think they are all smart now... OH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE PARENTS... one lady told my mom that her daughter would be recieving world class education over there.... Sometimes I just want to ask them.. if you're so smart, why did you have to go all the way there and study Medicine?

EVERYONE CAN GET CAN IN

what's unfair is schools treating engineer applicants on the same level as your bio degree. Lifes unfair man up.

 

[Contrarian]

what's unfair is schools treating engineer applicants on the same level as your bio degree. Lifes unfair man up.

haha that's true, but you guys sacrifice gpa for a better back up plan.

 

[futureboy]

Let's look at it this way, the whole concept of turning out doctors is different with US schools vs. the Caribbean. Caribbean schools do the rooting out in medical school, while US schools weed out during the premed process.

Excellent point. It's kind of like a selective admission undergraduate school versus one with open admission. The selective school admits top students who have the best chance to succeed. Their retention/graduation rates are thus very good. The open admission school lets everyone in, giving those with bad high school academics a chance to get their act together. The open admission school's graduation rates are much lower because many fail out, but the students that graduate have proven they are capable of college level work.

 

[mybubbles14]

haha that's true, but you guys sacrifice gpa for a better back up plan.

lol touche...no idea why I dropped engineering

 

[futureboy]

what's unfair is schools treating engineer applicants on the same level as your bio degree. Lifes unfair man up.

Another excellent point. Engineering grads are a good example of the type of student that could end up in the caribbean. A chem engineering friend of mine told me that his upper level classes made organic chem (the premed "weed out" class) look like kindergarten. If an engineering grad has a 3.7 GPA in his med school prereqs but a 3.0 cumulative GPA, he's going to have a tough time getting into a US medical school, even with a good MCAT score.

There are students with masters, professional, and Ph.D degrees in caribbean medical schools...

 

[OpalOnyx]

Some of the best I advise I have ever gotten was when a wise man told me to never worry about others and only worry about myself. Worrying about what other people are doing is pointless and will bring you nothing but stress over things that you have no control over. The only thing you have control of is you.

Go forth young skywalker.

yeah. follow this OP.

 

[Lewist02]

Why be pissed about something that has nothing to do with your own education? Worry about yourself. And not everyone that goes over to the Caribbean is an idiot pining for a medical degree. Everyone has their own circumstances and it really shouldn't be your position to judge them. i.e. A friend of my family's son went over to Grenada because he wanted to be a doctor. His girlfriend was tragically killed his sophomore year of college and his grades slipped. He had no other options, and most MD schools automatically weed out applicants based off of MCAT and GPA's without looking at anything else. He finished his residency at Hopkins and is now a plastics surgeon specializing in facial reconstruction in Manhattan. Not doing to bad for himself. Clearly not an idiot.

 

[futureboy]

I'm sure there are many good pre-meds who get rejected, and have to resort to going to Ross, or some other school, and I'm sure they would do well...

It is good that you backed off your original harsh assessment of caribbean medical schools/students/graduates. FYI, California (considered to be the toughest state for licensing caribbean medical school graduates), considers Ross, along with St. George's, American University of the Caribbean, and Saba, to be the equivalent of an LCME- accredited (US/ Canadian) medical school.

 

[mrivera]

.

 

[futureboy]

That is true; however, the clerkship may not be as good as the ones domestic students do through accredited programs.

Caribbean med students often do 3rd & 4th year clerkships along side US med students.

 

[njbmd]

Its not fair that people who are not even good at science can fly over to the carribean and get MD, while the people here work 2392390472390479023 times more, get much better stats, and end up with the same title... i know a few people with low 3.0 GPAs and misreable MCATs(19-20) who are SHOWING OFF that they are going to Med school at these random schools in the carribean.. it drives me nuts that they think they are all smart now... OH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE PARENTS... one lady told my mom that her daughter would be recieving world class education over there.... Sometimes I just want to ask them.. if you're so smart, why did you have to go all the way there and study Medicine?

EVERYONE CAN GET CAN IN

So what's stopping you from heading down there to get that "world class" medical education. Bon voyage!

 

[Zona Pellucida]

No words.