IMG/Caribbean grads obtaining FELLOWSHIPS?

[FutureDoc1992]

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The topic of matching into difficulty residencies for a Carib grad has been beaten to death. But what about everyone who matches into fields like IM and then a fellowship afterwards?

Obviously the 4 hardest:
Cardiology
GI
Heme/Onc
Allergy

Do these Carib grads obtain these if they do great in their IM residencies? Or are they more consistently found in fields like Rheum and Endo?

Thanks

 

[DermViser]

The topic of matching into difficulty residencies for a Carib grad has been beaten to death. But what about everyone who matches into fields like IM and then a fellowship afterwards?

Do these Carib grads obtain these if they do great in their IM residencies? Or are they more consistently found in fields like Rheum and Endo?

Thanks

 

[FutureDoc1992]

I'm hoping I didn't present this in such a way to offend anyone?

 

[DermViser]

I'm hoping I didn't present this in such a way to offend anyone?

No you didn't it's more the responses that are sure to come. I'll change it.

 

[dermaway]

The topic of matching into difficulty residencies for a Carib grad has been beaten to death. But what about everyone who matches into fields like IM and then a fellowship afterwards?

Obviously the 4 hardest:
Cardiology
GI
Heme/Onc
Allergy

Do these Carib grads obtain these if they do great in their IM residencies? Or are they more consistently found in fields like Rheum and Endo?

Thanks

its my understanding that only the most recent academic phase matters.

just like how your residency position depends only on your medical school achievements and your college accomplishments don't matter at all

i figure that your fellowship placement depends only on your residency achievements and your medical school no longer matters at that point either.

i could be wrong though i'm still in med school and have no desire to do a fellowship

edit: obviously being an IMG hurts your chances of getting a good residency which will in turn hurt your chance of getting a good fellowship, but i think once at the residency level, it doesn't matter where you went to med school

 

[PL198]

I'm interested in this thread because I've never really understood how getting fellowships works. Like is there a step 4 or something that is hyper-secret, or like what ranks candidates?

 

[dermaway]

I'm interested in this thread because I've never really understood how getting fellowships works. Like is there a step 4 or something that is hyper-secret, or like what ranks candidates?

i just assumed it was all about connections, impressing the right people during residency that would vouch for you

but again i don't know. i'm studying for an exam on thursday, hence why i'm responding to all these questions i actually have no clue about

 

[DermViser]

its my understanding that only the most recent academic phase matters.

just like how your residency position depends only on your medical school achievements and your college accomplishments don't matter at all

i figure that your fellowship placement depends only on your residency achievements and your medical school no longer matters at that point either.

i could be wrong though i'm still in med school and have no desire to do a fellowship

edit: obviously being an IMG hurts your chances of getting a good residency which will in turn hurt your chance of getting a good fellowship, but i think once at the residency level, it doesn't matter where you went to med school

And you would be incorrect in your understanding.

 

[DermViser]

I'm interested in this thread because I've never really understood how getting fellowships works. Like is there a step 4 or something that is hyper-secret, or like what ranks candidates?

Nope. You take Step 3 but that's more for the ability to get a full license.

 

[dermaway]

And you would be incorrect.

I believe you and have no reason to believe otherwise, but that seems odd to me.

Student A and B are at the same program. A is a better resident but is an IMG. B is a worse resident but is an AMG.

They really would consider taking B over A?

 

[DermViser]

I believe you and have no reason to believe otherwise, but that seems odd to me.

Student A and B are at the same program. A is a better resident but is an IMG. B is a worse resident but is an AMG.

They really would consider taking B over A?

I think the better scenario is that both A and B are similar performing residents but one is an IMG and the other is an AMG.

 

[PL198]

I feel that IM is like being a pre-med all over again.

 

[RJGOP]

I believe you and have no reason to believe otherwise, but that seems odd to me.

Student A and B are at the same program. A is a better resident but is an IMG. B is a worse resident but is an AMG.

They really would consider taking B over A?

I would say it typically depends on what the fellowship is. If it's cardiology, I'd say they'd chose the AMG. An FMG has a better shot at something like endo or rheum.

 

[DermViser]

I feel that IM is like being a pre-med all over again.

I would say more like starting med school all over again and climbing up the ladder.

 

[drcrispmd]

I know Carib IMG/FMG that are in cardio (several), peds cardio, GI (several), Heme/Onc (several), Allergy/Immuno, neonatology, plastic surgery, peds critical care, critical care, pulm, ID, endo, rheum, ped heme/onc, nephro, peds ER, peds endo, peds pulm, peds neuro, colo rectal surgery, peds nephro, maternal fetal medicine, thoraic surgery, Female Pelvic Medicine & Reconstructive Surgery, vascular surgery. These are all from SGU

 

[tantacles]

I would say more like starting med school all over again and climbing up the ladder.

My understanding, and feel free to correct me, is that as a resident, the rat race doesn't really stop. In fact, it can be worse; you're being compared to your peers, who comprise a much smaller group than your medical school class. The expectations are high, and only the best will be chief resident. And the chief resident, naturally, will have a better chance of getting an interview for any given fellowship than the other PGY-Finals in your program.

 

[colbgw02]

I'm not sure what's so elusive about this topic:

1) The most recent training is, by far, the most important. However, it is not the sole consideration.

2) Assuming all other things are equal, the AMG resident is better off than the IMG resident.

 

[Pisiform]

well, there is a lot of politics involved in residency. If you are good at that, you will be fine

 

[DermViser]

My understanding, and feel free to correct me, is that as a resident, the rat race doesn't really stop. In fact, it can be worse; you're being compared to your peers, who comprise a much smaller group than your medical school class. The expectations are high, and only the best will be chief resident. And the chief resident, naturally, will have a better chance of getting an interview for any given fellowship than the other PGY-Finals in your program.

For IM, a chief resident status is not necessarily needed to get a fellowship. But yes, it's a rat race all over again, along with the usual politics.

 

[DermViser]

I know Carib IMG/FMG that are in cardio (several), peds cardio, GI (several), Heme/Onc (several), Allergy/Immuno, neonatology, plastic surgery, peds critical care, critical care, pulm, ID, endo, rheum, ped heme/onc, nephro, peds ER, peds endo, peds pulm, peds neuro, colo rectal surgery, peds nephro, maternal fetal medicine, thoraic surgery, Female Pelvic Medicine & Reconstructive Surgery, vascular surgery. These are all from SGU

 

[tantacles]

For IM, a chief resident status is not necessarily needed to get a fellowship. But yes, it's a rat race all over again, along with the usual politics.

To be fair, I said "better" chance not that the chief is the only one who will get a fellowship.

 

[DermViser]

well, there is a lot of politics involved in residency. If you are good at that, you will be fine

😆

 

[235009]

charting outcomes for fellowship match breaks it down pretty nicely by US MD, IMG, FMG, DO http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...ng-Service-1st-Edition-Published-May-2013.pdf ....as you can see IMGs aren't doing so well. granted there are confounding factors and the data doesn't tell the whole story but there is obviously a very stark difference and a clear advantage to being a US MD that persists into the fellowship match

also what's SDN's fascination with allergy....it's just like the fascination with neurosurgery, a specialty that 1% of US MDs goes into. in the grand scheme of things they're both negligible.

 

[FutureDoc1992]

charting outcomes for fellowship match breaks it down pretty nicely by US MD, IMG, FMG, DO http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...ng-Service-1st-Edition-Published-May-2013.pdf ....as you can see IMGs aren't doing so well. granted there are confounding factors and the data doesn't tell the whole story but there is obviously a very stark difference and a clear advantage to being a US MD that persists into the fellowship match

also what's SDN's fascination with allergy....it's just like the fascination with neurosurgery, a specialty that 1% of US MDs goes into. in the grand scheme of things they're both negligible.

I threw allergy in there just because I know it's a fairly competitive IM sub-specialty.

 

[PL198]

I threw allergy in there just because I know it's a fairly competitive IM sub-specialty.

Wait so are you pre-med or not? I don't know why you're considering match stuff now. JK I bought first aid when I was in 3rd grade

 

[evilbooyaa]

In general, most IMGs match at less academic/competitive IM programs. Any resident at one of these less academic IM programs would have a harder time finding a fellowship compared to an IM resident from a more prestigious institution.

That's one way they are disadvantaged. On top of that, I assume that if both were similarly performing throughout residency, an AMG in residency X would be preferred to an IMG in residency X for fellowship Y. However, just like residency apps, if you can find someone who has power/connections to vouch for you, any resident can help their chances significantly.

 

[drcrispmd]

I do see why my response was lame.

The OP asked if Carib grads obtain fellowships in certain areas. I simply listed fellowship matches from one Carib school (SGU). So yes, Carib grads can get fellowships in those areas

 

[DermViser]

also what's SDN's fascination with allergy....it's just like the fascination with neurosurgery, a specialty that 1% of US MDs goes into. in the grand scheme of things they're both negligible.

Bc it's considered the "Derm of IM" -- due to lifestyle, etc.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-is-the-derm-of-im.855252/

 

[Greenberg702]

The topic of matching into difficulty residencies for a Carib grad has been beaten to death. But what about everyone who matches into fields like IM and then a fellowship afterwards?

Obviously the 4 hardest:
Cardiology
GI
Heme/Onc
Allergy

Do these Carib grads obtain these if they do great in their IM residencies? Or are they more consistently found in fields like Rheum and Endo?

Thanks

I'm guessing if you're an IMG but were able to match top tier IM and did well, you could probably get any fellowship you want. In a purely hypothetical scenario, an IMG w/ UCSF IM is probably > AMG at BU IM but the problem is matching into IM in the first place. If you went to cook country community college but were able to get into and do well at HMS you could match anywhere you wanted to. You would probably have a much harder time getting into HMS than someone from Harvard College, though.

 

[witzelsucht]

n=1 but i know an interventional cards attending who went to sgu. fairly new attending too

i also know a surg onc from ross but but thats not im

 

[Baller MD]

nvm

 

[Baller MD]

double post

 

[235009]

Bc it's considered the "Derm of IM" -- due to lifestyle, etc.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-is-the-derm-of-im.855252/

Did you just try to make a point by linking to a SDN thread?

How competitive is allergy really? Is it even a desirable subspecialty? My point was that, just like neurosurgery, it is hailed as the extremely desirable and competitive but is it really or is that just SDN lore as it is with neurosurgery. It's conspicuously absent from charting outcomes.

 

[DermViser]

Did you just try to make a point by linking to a SDN thread?

How competitive is allergy really? Is it even a desirable subspecialty? My point was that, just like neurosurgery, it is hailed as the extremely desirable and competitive but is it really or is that just SDN lore as it is with neurosurgery. It's conspicuously absent from charting outcomes.

My point was why Allergy is considered a competitive subspecialty. It is definitely considered a competitive subspecialty of IM.

 

[235009]

My point was why Allergy is considered a competitive subspecialty. It is definitely considered a competitive subspecialty of IM.

And my question was "is it really?" Is there any data that proves that or are you guessing that because it's a lifestyle specialty ergo it must be competitive?

 

[235009]

so I found some data.... http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...gram-NRMP-Results-and-Data-SMS-2014-Final.pdf. If you go by # applicants per position alone then you get in terms of competitiveness:
GI = Pulm/CC = 1.5
Cards = Allergy = 1.4
Heme/Onc = 1.2

but of course that doesn't take into account how strong of an applicant you have to be to obtain a position which is impossible to know for allergy because it's not included in charting outcomes (I think the data is from before allergy was participating in the match...maybe). as you can imagine the above numbers can be significantly skewed by small fields. For instance the top 3 most competitive specialties solely by this criteria would be Hematology, Oncology, Pulmonary (not talking about the combined specialties of Heme/Onc or Pulm/CC) since their applicants per position are in the 4-6 range.

Either way, my main point here is that you should avoid just regurgitating SDN folklore without adequate data to back up those claims....you can't really say that allergy is competitive because it's such a small field that it skews the numbers and the kind of application you need doesn't necessarily have to be that competitive (as it does for GI, Cards, Heme/Onc, Pulm/CC)

 

[DermViser]

so I found some data.... http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...gram-NRMP-Results-and-Data-SMS-2014-Final.pdf. If you go by # applicants per position alone then you get in terms of competitiveness:
GI = Pulm/CC = 1.5
Cards = Allergy = 1.4
Heme/Onc = 1.2

but of course that doesn't take into account how strong of an applicant you have to be to obtain a position which is impossible to know for allergy because it's not included in charting outcomes (I think the data is from before allergy was participating in the match...maybe). as you can imagine the above numbers can be significantly skewed by small fields. For instance the top 3 most competitive specialties solely by this criteria would be Hematology, Oncology, Pulmonary (not talking about the combined specialties of Heme/Onc or Pulm/CC) since their applicants per position are in the 4-6 range.

Either way, my main point here is that you should avoid just regurgitating SDN folklore without adequate data to back up those claims....you can't really say that allergy is competitive because it's such a small field that it skews the numbers and the kind of application you need doesn't necessarily have to be that competitive (as it does for GI, Cards, Heme/Onc, Pulm/CC)

It's NOT SDN folklore. Look at the number of Allergy/Immunology spots. Not to mention the number of people applying are in IM, Peds, and Med/Peds.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Did you just try to make a point by linking to a SDN thread?

How competitive is allergy really? Is it even a desirable subspecialty? My point was that, just like neurosurgery, it is hailed as the extremely desirable and competitive but is it really or is that just SDN lore as it is with neurosurgery. It's conspicuously absent from charting outcomes.

It is a very desirable and competitive subspecialty right now. Largely owing to good reimbursements , totally outpatient practice w minimal call requirements.

Many of my medicine friends are drooling over allergy

 

[DermViser]

It is a very desirable and competitive subspecialty right now. Largely owing to good reimbursements , totally outpatient practice w minimal call requirements.

Many of my medicine friends are drooling over allergy

Exactly. As of right now, Allergy is doing quite well due to reimbursements. This will probably level off if CMS finds that certain things like Patch testing, RAST testing, etc. are overutilized. Combine this will being a fully outpatient specialty, and it isn't surprising at all, why it's competitive.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Many of my medicine friends are drooling over allergy

I'll bet they're itching for their match results.