Immunizing fatigue?

Started by Thoughtfulsinner
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Thoughtfulsinner

Investment banking MD gambler
10+ Year Member
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Seriously, this is getting out of control. On the spot walk in immunizing when there are already 10+ waiters for regular prescriptions. Going out into the congested waiting room with no privacy for the patient and all the attention being focused on what your doing.

I feel more like a nurse than a pharmacist at times.
 
hwks09 said:
Seriously, this is getting out of control. On the spot walk in immunizing when there are already 10+ waiters for regular prescriptions. Going out into the congested waiting room with no privacy for the patient and all the attention being focused on what your doing.

I feel more like a nurse than a pharmacist at times.
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Welcome to immunization hell!!! Leave it to corporate retail pharmacy to f%#k up something that could have been a good service if it were done properly. Remember the corporate line of BS they are pushing. A shot doesn't take any longer to do than a prescription! I guess in your fantasy world the sky is pink and bunnies and unicorns hop around all the time.

The disconnect between corporate middle manager weenies and the pharmacist down in the trenches has never been wider. These 20 year corporate middle manager pharmacists do not have a clue what it is like to actually work in a pharmacy. I have no respect for someone who has been out of pharmacy practice so long they cannot do the job any more. Do not tell me how to do my job based on what you did 20 years ago. It is a whole new ball game and you got left behind.

It cracks me up when they talk like we should be excited to increase are workload and stress without a corresponding increase in technician or pharmacist hours. Like it is a good thing do all the normal stuff we do not have enough hours to do and add flu shots into the mix. Yeah I am real f&%king excited about that!!!

I saw a sign of the impending pharmacy apocalypse yesterday. A 24-hour Walgreens had on their sign " Walk up flu shots no appointments necessary 24 hours a day!!!".
 
Seems like every corporate email now ends with "Happy immunizing!" like it's a substitute for "Merry Christmas!" I would really like to see how happy these people would be if they were working at store level. In our neck of the woods someone connected to corporate calls all the stores midday to get a count on how many shots so far. Not to mention we still have to promote flavoring, prescription savings club, auto refill, texting, etc. I have had the pleasure of working with an immunization certified intern a few times. It was AWESOME.

If I remember correctly flu shots were over by March. Counting down the days!
 
hwks09 said:
Seriously, this is getting out of control. On the spot walk in immunizing when there are already 10+ waiters for regular prescriptions. Going out into the congested waiting room with no privacy for the patient and all the attention being focused on what your doing.

I feel more like a nurse than a pharmacist at times.
Click to expand...

I want to know what kinds of patients are these that are perfectly comfortable being immunized in the crowded waiting room... srsly people.
 
MountainPharmD said:
Welcome to immunization hell!!! Leave it to corporate retail pharmacy to f%#k up something that could have been a good service if it were done properly. Remember the corporate line of BS they are pushing. A shot doesn't take any longer to do than a prescription! I guess in your fantasy world the sky is pink and bunnies and unicorns hop around all the time.

The disconnect between corporate middle manager weenies and the pharmacist down in the trenches has never been wider. These 20 year corporate middle manager pharmacists do not have a clue what it is like to actually work in a pharmacy. I have no respect for someone who has been out of pharmacy practice so long they cannot do the job any more. Do not tell me how to do my job based on what you did 20 years ago. It is a whole new ball game and you got left behind.

It cracks me up when they talk like we should be excited to increase are workload and stress without a corresponding increase in technician or pharmacist hours. Like it is a good thing do all the normal stuff we do not have enough hours to do and add flu shots into the mix. Yeah I am real f&%king excited about that!!!

I saw a sign of the impending pharmacy apocalypse yesterday. A 24-hour Walgreens had on their sign " Walk up flu shots no appointments necessary 24 hours a day!!!".
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I once worked for a fairly sizable chain where the owner made a point to work at least one 4-hr shift a week (or more) in one of his stores so he could see what things are actually like.

Total mind blow.
 
Luckily my store is med volume so it can take me maybe 5-10min to get a customer in and out if they don't take too long to fill out the consent form and if my system isn't so fail.

Like someone said in another thread, you are an employee, you can leave it you don't like it, find another job...etc. They are your bosses. If you have an ideal world of pharmacy practice, then find a job that has that ideal.

If you have 10+ waiters, then have the customer sit and fill out the forms while you clear out w/e you have to do. You do whatever you need to do to get things done.
 
Have any of you witnessed adverse reactions after immunizing pts? How long do pts wait after receiving their shot?

It doesn't seem fair to put pharmacists in this position...potentially having to handle an emergency. Do they give you epi-pens / training in this regard?

Pts should just go to the public health department (although I have seen ads for drive-through flu shots at some!).

Anyway, it's unfair to add this to your duties, in my opinion.

______________________________

(FP physician)
 
charfdorn said:
I want to know what kinds of patients are these that are perfectly comfortable being immunized in the crowded waiting room... srsly people.
Click to expand...
I seriously had a women flash me about a week ago. She had on a thick sweatshirt, and I suggested that she could just slip her arm out of the sleeve. It didn't occur to me that she would agree to that if she didn't have on a t-shirt or a bra! I'm not sure if anybody else saw her, but anybody walking by the pharmacy right then got an eyefull!
 
Where I work (Rite Aid) people can only come in for immunizations from 6-8 PM on weekdays (weekend pharmacist isn't licensed to immunize yet, that may change). We have at least one intern (on Fridays 2) there during that time as well. Immunization seems to be going smoothly so far for these reasons.

In busy stores, just remember, if you increase the wait time from 15 to 30 (or 45) minutes, corporate will be breathing down your neck, but you won't be fired and you won't lose your license. If you mess up a script or contaminate the immunization, you could hurt someone (or yourself in the case of the immunization) and get sued/fired or lose your license. We have no problem telling people to wait 45 minutes if we are backed up, and no one's been fired yet for that nor will they be.
 
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I work at one of those places where we have to give flu shots on demand 24/7. They've increased our tech hours but not enough to hire anyone new, and even if we did by the time we find someone and have them trained our hours will be getting cut again. All of our techs are already at full-time, so all of the extra hours are wasted.

They also increased our pharmacist hours but not enough to actually have a full shift pharmacist come out so those hours are wasted as well. It's fairly obvious they knew the increased hours wouldn't be utilized but did it just so we can't say that they didn't increase our budget.

We're to ask every single customer if they'd like a flu shot (sounds oddly similar to "would you like fries with that"). Five minutes after I started this morning I had three people each wanting both flu and pneumonia shots (so 6 shots total) in addition to the three people waiting for prescriptions. Of course it's just myself and 1 tech so I give the shots in between filling, helping with the drive-thru and answering the phone that won't quit ringing. So much fun!
 
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Pharmguy07 said:
I work at one of those places where we have to give flu shots on demand 24/7. They've increased our tech hours but not enough to hire anyone new, and even if we did by the time we find someone and have them trained our hours will be getting cut again. All of our techs are already at full-time, so all of the extra hours are wasted.

They also increased our pharmacist hours but not enough to actually have a full shift pharmacist come out so those hours are wasted as well. It's fairly obvious they knew the increased hours wouldn't be utilized but did it just so we can't say that they didn't increase our budget.

We're to ask every single customer if they'd like a flu shot (sounds oddly similar to "would you like fries with that"). Five minutes after I started this morning I had three people each wanting both flu and pneumonia shots (so 6 shots total) in addition to the three people waiting for prescriptions. Of course it's just myself and 1 tech so I give the shots in between filling, helping with the drive-thru and answering the phone that won't quit ringing. So much fun!
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I am with ya brother!!! F@&king great isn't it!!! Sad thing is it is our asses on the line. You better believe the company will throw us under the bus if we make a mistake or miss something because we are doing 10 things at once.

I am sorry your child got the wrong medication and died ma'am. It was not my fault because I have to keep the wait time under 17 minutes so no time to pay attention to detail. Plus I have to give shots, answer the phone, wait on the drive through and counsel patients at the same time I was filling your childs script. I somehow do not think this excuse will cut it.

Retail pharmacy would be a funny ass joke if I wasn't living it.
 
rxlynn said:
I seriously had a women flash me about a week ago. She had on a thick sweatshirt, and I suggested that she could just slip her arm out of the sleeve. It didn't occur to me that she would agree to that if she didn't have on a t-shirt or a bra! I'm not sure if anybody else saw her, but anybody walking by the pharmacy right then got an eyefull!
Click to expand...

This has only happened to me with 80 year old ladies. Its Dallas in late August and they are dressed like its Colorado in January. Next thing you know the shirt is off and I am scared.
 
when chains are making 10 bucks a pop, obviously they are gonna milk it as much as possible

it blows, but it is what it is

the sad part is god forbid any rph makes a mistake as a result, that rph will just be thrown under the bus and fed to the pack of wolves

just be careful, its your license on the line.
 
The retail pharmacy I left in 2002 was proposing this. One of my colleagues gave shots as an Army medic in the 1970s, and he said there was NO WAY he was doing this unless a physician was present.
 
rph3664 said:
The retail pharmacy I left in 2002 was proposing this. One of my colleagues gave shots as an Army medic in the 1970s, and he said there was NO WAY he was doing this unless a physician was present.
Click to expand...

Check out what Dr. Art Mollen says about flu shots. The Mollen Clinic used to run all the flu shots in the CVS and Wags and many grocery stores, now I think only Walmart is using them. He is losing so much money this year and he is pissed. He says there is less risk to get a flu shot from a nurse than a pharmacist.
 
museabuse said:
Check out what Dr. Art Mollen says about flu shots. The Mollen Clinic used to run all the flu shots in the CVS and Wags and many grocery stores, now I think only Walmart is using them. He is losing so much money this year and he is pissed. He says there is less risk to get a flu shot from a nurse than a pharmacist.
Click to expand...

Yeah the Mollen clinics are over. Right, the burn out unemployable anywhere else nuses the Mollen clinic hires are a great option over pharmacists...This guy is pissed his business is over....
 
hwks09 said:
Seriously, this is getting out of control. On the spot walk in immunizing when there are already 10+ waiters for regular prescriptions. Going out into the congested waiting room with no privacy for the patient and all the attention being focused on what your doing.

I feel more like a nurse than a pharmacist at times.
Click to expand...

Isn't this what the pharmacists wanted? More clinical responsibility?

Be careful what you wish for....
 
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PharMed2016 said:
More clinical responsibility but less of the other BS that corporate makes you do. 😉
Click to expand...

That's obviously not realistic. What will actually happen is more clinical responsibility for the same pay, more paperwork for the same pay, more liability and stress for the same pay. And there will be 10,000 graduating pharmacists each year who will do it if you don't.
 
naus said:
Isn't this what the pharmacists wanted? More clinical responsibility?

Be careful what you wish for....
Click to expand...

I fail to see how immunizations is "more clinical responsibility" in anything other than title... I mean, I take it for what it is and where we're at with it, but seriously, it is such a departure in duty from what we learn in pharmacy school (for example the part where you have to actually make physical contact with the patient). I mean I know the retail chains would bastardize any advancement of the profession, but seriously, wouldn't it be better to see something like MTM that is more in line with our current activities be bastardized on a large scale than something completely out of left field like immunizations? I mean I know that would pretty much take AMA approval (get a snickers bar on that one)... guess it is better to take on the nurses first... oh well...
 
MTM is a big deal here in Wisconsin. It is covered by some of our large providers.

Flu shots really haven't affected me. That is probably because of our unique patient demographics. Our biggest day was 7 shots. Even our supervisor has admitted, we will not do as well as most other stores. We should strive for 3-4 shots a day.
 
Do you have to meet a flu shot "quota" in your pharmacies?

I don't think it's fair the extra work they put on us and expect to maintain the same work flow... I find it really annoying when patients are complaining and writing down my name when I'm about to give them their flu shots... I politely explain to them that we are busy at the moment and that's why you had to wait 15-20 minutes to get your shot. They don't care and just go on with their BS... You know there is sign outside that says "Get your flu shot today, NO WAITING" My ice cream is gonna melt... I have groceries in my car... You customer service stinks... Blah blah blah...

Come on? This is not McDonald's! Don't expect me to give all the attention while I have other patients waiting for their meds and physicians calling for new scripts...
 
MountainPharmD said:
Yeah the Mollen clinics are over. Right, the burn out unemployable anywhere else nuses the Mollen clinic hires are a great option over pharmacists...This guy is pissed his business is over....
Click to expand...

I had never heard of the Mollen company, but did a little Google search and it looks like they contract with (or at least go to) Wal-Mart to do flu shot clinics. I boycott Wal-Mart, but I might (MIGHT) go there for my flu shot because I'm no longer working at the hospital, where I got mine for free.
 
hcp said:
Do you have to meet a flu shot "quota" in your pharmacies?

I don't think it's fair the extra work they put on us and expect to maintain the same work flow... I find it really annoying when patients are complaining and writing down my name when I'm about to give them their flu shots... I politely explain to them that we are busy at the moment and that's why you had to wait 15-20 minutes to get your shot. They don't care and just go on with their BS... You know there is sign outside that says "Get your flu shot today, NO WAITING" My ice cream is gonna melt... I have groceries in my car... You customer service stinks... Blah blah blah...

Come on? This is not McDonald's! Don't expect me to give all the attention while I have other patients waiting for their meds and physicians calling for new scripts...
Click to expand...

It sounds like we work in the same store! The "my ice cream is going to melt" line is one of the all time classics! I started telling people that it wasn't a real smart idea to get thier ice cream before coming over to the pharmacy and it goes back in the cooler the same way it came out.

A 15 to 20 minute wait on flu shots is pretty good. Hell a 45 minute wait on flu shots is good when you are by yourself.

I want to punch the marketing genius in the mouth who came up with the idea to put SHOTS!!! NOW!!!! NO WAITING!!!! on all the signs.
 
rph3664 said:
I had never heard of the Mollen company, but did a little Google search and it looks like they contract with (or at least go to) Wal-Mart to do flu shot clinics. I boycott Wal-Mart, but I might (MIGHT) go there for my flu shot because I'm no longer working at the hospital, where I got mine for free.
Click to expand...

Wal-Mart may change their mind in the future. I have been told by several Wal-Mart pharmacists that the company will not do immunizations becuase of the potential legal liabilities. They do not want to get sued.
 
I just watched the new Wall Street movie in the theater. Clearly, it is all about the Wall Green.

Ferengi rule of acquisition #203

New customers are like razortoothed grubworms. They can be succulent, but sometimes they can bite back.

and my favorite... #211 Employees are rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
 
rxlea said:
I just watched the new Wall Street movie in the theater. Clearly, it is all about the Wall Green.

Ferengi rule of acquisition #203

New customers are like razortoothed grubworms. They can be succulent, but sometimes they can bite back.

and my favorite... #211 Employees are rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
Click to expand...

of course , when it comes to the management gleefully doling out new customer service initiatives .. it'd be wise to remember rule #48 .. the bigger the smile, the sharper the knife!

but rule #211 is really the best.. props!
 
naus said:
That's obviously not realistic. What will actually happen is more clinical responsibility for the same pay, more paperwork for the same pay, more liability and stress for the same pay. And there will be 10,000 graduating pharmacists each year who will do it if you don't.
Click to expand...

You said wish before not whats believed to be realistic. The profession needs to develop a backbone unfortunately our professional organizations do nothing to advance the cause of pharmacy and lack influence compared to the AMA or even nurses for that matter. Instead we are left at the mercy of big chain pharmacy and big pharma to dictate the direction of the pharmacy profession. :laugh:
 
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PharMed2016 said:
You said wish before not whats believed to be realistic. The profession needs to develop a backbone unfortunately our professional organizations do nothing to advance the cause of pharmacy and lack influence compared to the AMA or even nurses for that matter. Instead we are left at the mercy of big chain pharmacy and big pharma to dictate the direction of the pharmacy profession. :laugh:
Click to expand...

The professional organizations are mostly comprised of independent owners, who in turn fend for other independent owners.

But what can be done? That's a serious question. If you can answer it, please join a professional organization and motivate them to change.
I tried to do that with students in my state. I introduced a policy at my state organization's student policy forum that dealt with encouraging chains to create workflow systems that prevent errors in pharmacies by allowing pharmacists enough time and resources to effectively practice. Was such a backlash from other students, saying that we shouldn't interfere in business and whatnot. I basically knew the policy wouldn't pass, but I just wanted to see people's reaction. Unfortunately they couldn't come up with anything either that could regulate chains (and seemed like they had no interest in doing this). But if we don't stand up for our future, who will?

So seriously, I encourage everyone to instead of whining about how no one doing anything to actually think of ideas of how we can realistically change chain pharmacy practice (while acknowledging that professional organizations will lose much of their money if they alienate chains, which is a real obstacle). If feasible solutions are found, interest could be found from many people to help with the issue.
 
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