Implementing block exams

[CalliopeDVM]

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I do wonder if those who are failing do not go to lectures and not study as hard as they should.

Or they simply aren't up to the challenge, or have a mind that works in different ways.........in other words, it's entirely possible to go to every lecture and study hard, and still fail. Vet school is hard - very hard - and not everyone can manage it. However, Ross accepts students that other schools think won't be able to manage it and don't make their higher standards, and they do so accepting that some of those students will fail. They don't accept those students knowing and hoping they will fail, but they do know there's a very strong chance that they will fail and they don't care.

 

[hizi]

It’s definitely part of it. I know someone who only goes to the labs and that’s it... it’s definitely frustrating. I came into ross with a 2.8 undergrad gpa, and knew it was the only school I’d get into. But it’s also frustrating that I feel like I’m doing SO WELL now only for them to completely change the way they’re structured.

Do not get frustrated, you got this!!!!! if you did it before you will do it now🙂

 

[battie]

I know it’s the only school I’ll be able to get in to

May I ask why? If it's due to age, the oldest person in my class is just shy of 50. Dont write yourself off because of age!

 

[zoogrl29]

May I ask why? If it's due to age, the oldest person in my class is just shy of 50. Dont write yourself off because of age!

This is my 3rd round. I’m getting passed over and my stats are good. 10 yrs as a vet tech, 3 years as a zoo keeper, 10 years in research and 4 publications. When I ask what I can do better I get “nothing”, just wasn’t enough room blah blah. I am 49 and the only older students I see in that age group getting in are generally men or have 4.0 stats. My competition is a bit more fierce because if they only allow 1-2 non traditional students I have to out compete with that type of student. A 3.5 just doesn’t cut it in my age group and I’m not getting any younger every time I apply! 🙁


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[PetVet7]

My competition is a bit more fierce because if they only allow 1-2 non traditional students I have to out compete with that type of student.

I’ve never heard of school only accepting a few non-traditional vs traditional students. Is this true? Why would it matter?

 

[zoogrl29]

I’ve never heard of school only accepting a few non-traditional vs traditional students. Is this true? Why would it matter?

I’ve been given this info from more than one school, but never asked “why only one or two of us?”. I’ve always assumed when they label us as “non-traditional” that we are some kind of perceived higher risk.


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[mmmdreamerz]

I don't think they intentionally fail students to make more money, but I do think they accept a lot of students that they deep down know are going to struggle, thus allowing them to make money off these students that they realistically know are likely going to fail or struggle to get through.

This, I feel, had pros and cons. On one hand, it think it’s great that schools like Ross exist because there are dang good vets who didn’t have the perfect stats going in...this gives them the chance they deserve. On the other hand, there are those that didn’t do as well in undergrad that are going to get in and are probably going to struggle in vet school. Ross caters to a very specific market. Top students get into the state schools. These people, for the most part, aren’t going to go to Ross for a plethora of reasons. Ross knows they are accepting some students that are going to struggle/fail and Im sure it’s factored into their business model. I have a hard time believing they want students to fail, but I think they recognize that it’s inevitable in some instances.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I’ve been given this info from more than one school, but never asked “why only one or two of us?”. I’ve always assumed when they label us as “non-traditional” that we are some kind of perceived higher risk.


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From students who have no first hand knowledge of how candidates are actually chosen, or direct quotes from faculty actually on the admission committee?

If an admission committee wrote someone off due to age and nothing else, that would be considered discriminatory. Which given our current sociopolitical climate, academia is falling all over itself to not even emit a whiff of.

Edited to add:
The most common issue I have heard raised with older applicants is that they have usually been out of academic circles for a long time. Therefore, the admissions committee's big concern is not related to their intelligence, experience or dedication, but that they will not be able to transition quickly (or well) back into an intense scholastic environment. Especially a scholastic environment that may be very different (and much harder than) the environment they were in 10+ years ago, or however long it has been since they were last students.

I think sometimes people forget that applying for vet school is not the same thing as applying to be a vet. The "school" part is very important - i.e. being able to handle that academic rigor.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I’ve been given this info from more than one school, but never asked “why only one or two of us?”. I’ve always assumed when they label us as “non-traditional” that we are some kind of perceived higher risk.


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I can tell you my school, while not Ross, accepts several non-trads every year.

 

[zoogrl29]

From students who have no first hand knowledge of how candidates are actually chosen, or direct quotes from faculty actually on the admission committee?

If an admission committee wrote someone off due to age and nothing else, that would be considered discriminatory. Which given our current sociopolitical climate, academia is falling all over itself not to even have a whiff of.

Face to face with admission coordinators. I was given more specific info from LMU by a committee member. Everyone can argue with me all they want, but my stats are solid. My interview feedback at LMU is STELLAR, but they took the male candidate with a higher GPA because they only “have space for a few non-traditional students”. The first thing my interviewer at Ross said (in person) was “Ross gets a lot of older students because we get rejected even with good stats. They always want the younger ones.” A staff member my husband is related to at UGA flat out told me I’m “too old to apply” at a family function. I’ve asked people to review my app many times. One of my LOR’s is from a famous scientist. It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s my reality wether you believe it or not. How exactly do you prove any of this for a law suit? I would have to find other students my age with similar stories. Are they out there? Probably. Can I find them? Probably not, but either way I’m not here to sue people, I want to get into vet school.


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[zoogrl29]

I can tell you my school, while not Ross, accepts several non-grads every year.

Are non-grads, non-traditional? They would have to be non-grads as in obtaining a GED. Being a single parent, working full time while enrolled... Anyway, I feel like I’ve completely hijacked this thread. I’m sorry!


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[mmmdreamerz]

Are non-grads, non-traditional? They would have to be non-grads as in obtaining a GED. Being a single parent, working full time while enrolled... Anyway, I feel like I’ve completely hijacked this thread. I’m sorry!


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That was supposed to say non-trads...iPhone life lol

 

[zoogrl29]

That was supposed to say non-trads...iPhone life lol

I PM’d you!


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[mmmdreamerz]

Face to face with admission coordinators. I was given more specific info from LMU by a committee member. Everyone can argue with me all they want, but my stats are solid. My interview feedback at LMU is STELLAR, but they took the male candidate with a higher GPA because they only “have space for a few non-traditional students”. The first thing my interviewer at Ross said (in person) was “Ross gets a lot of older students because we get rejected even with good stats. They always want the younger ones.” A staff member my husband is related to at UGA flat out told me I’m “too old to apply” at a family function. I’ve asked people to review my app many times. One of my LOR’s is from a famous scientist. It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s my reality wether you believe it or not. How exactly do you prove any of this for a law suit? I would have to find other students my age with similar stories. Are they out there? Probably. Can I find them? Probably not, but either way I’m not here to sue people, I want to get into vet school.


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Wait Im confused. You‘re comparing your application to one other non-trad? It’s not as simple as “we only take x amount of this demographic, so one specific guy took your spot.” What does your application look like compared to the rest of the application pool? How do you interview? Are all your LORs solid? Etc.

 

[zoogrl29]

Wait Im confused. You‘re comparing your application to one other non-trad? It’s not as simple as “we only take x amount of this demographic, so one specific guy took your spot.” What does your application look like compared to the rest of the application pool? How do you interview? Are all your LORs solid? Etc.

My LOR’s are solid. The man that invented electroporation and was a professor at Harvard for 30 years wrote one of them. My people all sent me copies. Plus VAMD reassured me my LOR’s are perfect. I just gave one example at a place I have the most information from. My interviews (I’ve only gotten 2 out of 17 apps over 3 cycles) were great! I have feedback from the one at LMU...the info was read to me word-for-word what they all said and it was all extremely positive. I know the person that “took my spot” (I mean I wouldn’t say that, he had a higher GPA so he deserved the spot) and the person named him. My Ross interviewer hugged me. [emoji2368] I think the point of my first post was I DON’T EVEN GET THE CHANCE. Ross is giving me the chance so that’s why I’m “not holding out”. I should also say I haven’t been rejected by any schools this cycle. Just an “interview waitlist” for MWU (which is kind of “you qualify”, but rejection probably). If I get in to a state school I will stay, but I have my doubts I’ll even get the chance to try. I was pretty hopeful about AZ, but if they really got 800 applications that’s probably a no go too!

You know at LMU every young MS student has been put on their social media page except me? Every. Single. Classmate. I wonder why? I presented my CHW research at AHS and have a pic with Dr. Roark. That didn’t even make it.


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[PippyPony]

Just to chime in on weekly exams...

I am grateful that we don't have a few big exams every semester at my school... but weekly tests can also wear you down, and they sorta set you up to learn everything in a couple of days and then purge it all immediately. Like, I often can't remember what we were just tested on a couple weeks ago. And that's not great for situations like the NAVLE (or actually doing the job).

If they do decide to implement a weekly rotation, I'd suggest pushing for a week off from a test every couple of weeks. We switched to having 3 weeks on, 1 week off this year, and it's been huge for everyone's quality of life.

 

[PippyPony]

Face to face with admission coordinators. I was given more specific info from LMU by a committee member. Everyone can argue with me all they want, but my stats are solid. My interview feedback at LMU is STELLAR, but they took the male candidate with a higher GPA because they only “have space for a few non-traditional students”. The first thing my interviewer at Ross said (in person) was “Ross gets a lot of older students because we get rejected even with good stats. They always want the younger ones.” A staff member my husband is related to at UGA flat out told me I’m “too old to apply” at a family function. I’ve asked people to review my app many times. One of my LOR’s is from a famous scientist. It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s my reality wether you believe it or not. How exactly do you prove any of this for a law suit? I would have to find other students my age with similar stories. Are they out there? Probably. Can I find them? Probably not, but either way I’m not here to sue people, I want to get into vet school.


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Uhhh...

Older student here, and I've never heard of schools setting quotas on non-traditional applicants. If anything I felt like my age was an advantage in getting into school, not a disadvantage. Maybe it's changed since I applied, and if so that's disappointing and I am sorry more schools didn't offer you spots, but what you're describing is directly contradictory to my experience, so I guess I'm just surprised.

What does it mean that a non-traditional applicant would be "higher risk"?

 

[battie]

Like, I often can't remember what we were just tested on a couple weeks ago. And that's not great for situations like the NAVLE (or actually doing the job).

I'm not going to lie, I don't actively remember much from first or second year, and we take exams every 4 weeks 75% of the school year. Part of that is due to my extenuating circumstances last fall, but overall I'd say that the good 'ol "purge and dump" method of learning is low key going to happen regardless of testing style. Having that break week is definitely a solid move though, no doubt!!

 

[zoogrl29]

Uhhh...

Older student here, and I've never heard of schools setting quotas on non-traditional applicants. If anything I felt like my age was an advantage in getting into school, not a disadvantage. Maybe it's changed since I applied, and if so that's disappointing and I am sorry more schools didn't offer you spots, but what you're describing is directly contradictory to my experience, so I guess I'm just surprised.

What does it mean that a non-traditional applicant would be "higher risk"?

How old are you? I feel like 35ish isn’t the same as 50. The mental and physical stamina isn’t the same. After 45 keeping up with the college-age youth with agile memories and who can stay up all night to cram for an exam or finish a paper (I mean I can do that most days, but it is getting harder) isn’t easy. The other older DVM student and I just had a conversation about needing our hormones to not get fuzzy. There is probably a statistic somewhere.


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[PippyPony]

How old are you? I feel like 35ish isn’t the same as 50. The mental and physical stamina isn’t the same. After 45 keeping up with the college-age youth with agile memories and who can stay up all night to cram for an exam or finish a paper (I mean I can do that most days, but it is getting harder) isn’t easy. The other older DVM student and I just had a conversation about needing our hormones to not get fuzzy. There is probably a statistic somewhere.

Oh I agree, I find it much harder to pull all-nighters now than I did when I was 22, and I'm sure that part only gets more difficult. (Example: right this very minute when I wish I could chug a redbull and get through these lectures without giving myself heart palpitations).

However, I don't think that had any bearing on how schools evaluated my application -- nor should it. I also don't think it makes me or my other non-trad classmates more of a "risk" to admit. AFAIK, we do fine compared to the rest of the class. And for that matter, there are clinicians in the hospital who are in their 60s and 70s who could mop the floor with me in terms of energy and acuity.

I guess I just didn't see it being an issue for applications, and have classmates who are in their 50s who also viewed it as an asset based on past conversations. Though again, I'm a few years past applications, so YMMV, and I'm happy you found a school to help you realize your dreams. I'm simply pointing out that I had a different experience when applying so that future non-trad applicants aren't discouraged.

 

[Minnerbelle]

My LOR’s are solid. The man that invented electroporation and was a professor at Harvard for 30 years wrote one of them. My people all sent me copies. Plus VAMD reassured me my LOR’s are perfect. I just gave one example at a place I have the most information from. My interviews (I’ve only gotten 2 out of 17 apps over 3 cycles) were great! I have feedback from the one at LMU...the info was read to me word-for-word what they all said and it was all extremely positive. I know the person that “took my spot” (I mean I wouldn’t say that, he had a higher GPA so he deserved the spot) and the person named him. My Ross interviewer hugged me. [emoji2368] I think the point of my first post was I DON’T EVEN GET THE CHANCE. Ross is giving me the chance so that’s why I’m “not holding out”. I should also say I haven’t been rejected by any schools this cycle. Just an “interview waitlist” for MWU (which is kind of “you qualify”, but rejection probably). If I get in to a state school I will stay, but I have my doubts I’ll even get the chance to try. I was pretty hopeful about AZ, but if they really got 800 applications that’s probably a no go too!

You know at LMU every young MS student has been put on their social media page except me? Every. Single. Classmate. I wonder why? I presented my CHW research at AHS and have a pic with Dr. Roark. That didn’t even make it.


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but like... what are your academic qualifications? Something sounds fishy. You might be a wonderful person with experience, but being granted only 2 out of 17 interviews means there’s something glaring on your apps... and I highly doubt it’s your age.You keep saying your stats are solid, but never once said anything about your academics. That is suuuper important, especially for someone of your age. The sheer amount of rote memorization that needs to occur is a lot for a young 22 year old brain in its prime. My class had multiple people in their 40s and at least one over 50. Considering how few people at that age apply, the acceptance rate can’t be thaaaaat low.

 

[zoogrl29]

but like... what are your academic qualifications? Something sounds fishy. You might be a wonderful person with experience, but being granted only 2 out of 17 interviews means there’s something glaring on your apps... and I highly doubt it’s your age.You keep saying your stats are solid, but never once said anything about your academics. That is suuuper important, especially for someone of your age. The sheer amount of rote memorization that needs to occur is a lot for a young 22 year old brain in its prime. My class had multiple people in their 40s and at least one over 50. Considering how few people at that age apply, the acceptance rate can’t be thaaaaat low.

You didn’t read high enough. I have a 3.5 in undergrad (3.4 sci) and a 3.7 in grad school. Google “age discrimination in grad school” there is plenty to read about people sitting on boards saying things like “They couldn’t get their stuff together before now? No way we’re taking them”. I’m literally taking vet school classes with vet students and doing fine. They all have that info. Again, my stats are not as good as many other non-trad...I am competing with 4.0 students.
Edit: As of today I have 2 interview waitlist responses with 3 more schools to hear from. If there was something “glaring” on my app those would be flat out rejections.


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[futuredogtor72]

in case anyone is reading this thread, block exams have not changed or improved and its been 3 semesters 🙂

 

[K_Jaq94]

in case anyone is reading this thread, block exams have not changed or improved and its been 3 semesters 🙂

To be fair, COVID happened and I feel like that really messed up every school and any possible plans/changes that they wanted to do. 😳😒