Importance of APPIC/APA internships in School Psych?

[futureapppsy2]

A few of the School Psych PhD programs I'm applying to rarely if ever send their students to APPIC/APA internships, primarily because they require school-based internships (CDSPP listed and all that). How important is APA/APPIC in school psych specifically, especially if one wants a split school/research career.

Thanks!

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[psychgrad10]

A few of the School Psych PhD programs I'm applying to rarely if ever send their students to APPIC/APA internships, primarily because they require school-based internships (CDSSP listed and all that). How important is APA/APPIC in school psych specifically, especially if one wants a split school/research career.

Thnks!

The school that I was admitted to really stressed APA/APPIC internships, especially to be a licensed psychologist if thats what you want as well. All of this years cohort got internships and a lot of them were APA I believe.
I'm not sure how important it is, but I got the impression it would be beneficial if you wanted to also want to go for licensure as a psychologist

 

[psycmw]

A few of the School Psych PhD programs I'm applying to rarely if ever send their students to APPIC/APA internships, primarily because they require school-based internships (CDSSP listed and all that). How important is APA/APPIC in school psych specifically, especially if one wants a split school/research career.

Thnks!

There are ways to get APPIC/APA accredited internships because aside from school sites programs tend to require a specialized site i.e. a hospital or clinic that is APA accredited. I would say that an APA/APPIC accredited internship would be beneficial for a split career...be careful when a school says they rarely send their students to accredited sites, a lot of the time students don't want to go through the extra mile to get into those sites

 

[Jezebel09]

A few of the School Psych PhD programs I'm applying to rarely if ever send their students to APPIC/APA internships, primarily because they require school-based internships (CDSSP listed and all that). How important is APA/APPIC in school psych specifically, especially if one wants a split school/research career.

Thnks!

There are a handful--10 to 15--APA-accredited internships that are primarily school based. I am hoping that there will be more by the time I apply for internships. But, I plan to only apply to the APA-accredited ones. . . . It is easier to get licensure with those internships.

The important thing to find out is whether students applied to these programs and were not accepted or whether they just decided not to apply because of geographical constraints.

Many of these APA-accredited internships are located in Texas or the Midwest. Not everyone has the ability to go there.

 

[jnine]

my .02 says... it depends. 🙂

lets say i plan to get my school psych PhD and become a professor. I would want the APA internship because it's a mark of quality and may help me get a job in academia. Is is necessary? No.

is an APA internship necessary to practice in schools? i think the answer is no.

Let's also say i want a little private practice on the side and will go for liscencure. If the state im in doesn't explicitly reqire APA internship, then, again APA internship is not necessary.

APA internship looks good and may open a few doors in academia, but i think that on the balance it's not necessary for a school psychologist. that said, if you're a clinically focused SP i think it becomes more important. also there's always the issue of internship quality, which is probably likely to be higher in an APA internship. another thing to consider is to get the clincial hours to be competetive for APA internship, you'd be taking time away from other pursuits that could be more central to your future goals.

...this is my rationale anyhow

 

[Jezebel09]

my .02 says... it depends. 🙂

lets say i plan to get my school psych PhD and become a professor. I would want the APA internship because it's a mark of quality and may help me get a job in academia. Is is necessary? No.

is an APA internship necessary to practice in schools? i think the answer is no.

Let's also say i want a little private practice on the side and will go for liscencure. If the state im in doesn't explicitly reqire APA internship, then, again APA internship is not necessary.

APA internship looks good and may open a few doors in academia, but i think that on the balance it's not necessary for a school psychologist. that said, if you're a clinically focused SP i think it becomes more important. also there's always the issue of internship quality, which is probably likely to be higher in an APA internship.

...this is my rationale anyhow

That's interesting. I chose not to apply to some schools that had very few (if any) students in APA-accred. internships. I found that most of those schools were turning out academics.

 

[jnine]

That's interesting. I chose not to apply to some schools that had very few (if any) students in APA-accred. internships. I found that most of those schools were turning out academics.

yeah that is interesting. i dunno really. my opinion comes from a discussion with a SP prof at a research 1/churn out future profs program who said they encourage students to go for the APA internship because its a resume booster -- because it attests to quality training.

compare that with UT-Austin which is a clincially focused SP doc program. it seems like there the default is to go for an APA internship, regardless of weather the career path is academic, professional, or a combination - all of which are supported by the program. students (and their mentors) work hard towards that goal.

it seems like everyone "wants" the APA, it's just a matter of how much?

i guess i think that if my goal is a career in research, instead of doing a lot of clincial hours, i should do a lot of research. the research/professional split career makes the training path uncertain, but i think it is typically a lot harder to get a career in academia than one as a school psychologist. this makes me think that for someone who wants to land a good career in research (professorship or other competetive position), focusing on research while in school is #1

 

[aagman01]

I have to disagree, I believe it is possible to be heavily involved in research and practice.

By the time I graduate I will have several publications (4 done already, hopefully 2 more in the next year). Also, I will have completed 3 different practicum experiences (1 in school, 2 hospital/clinic). Much of my research has been applied intervention studies in schools, so those hours count for APA hours (very helpful).

In my program, last year 5 out of 6 students applied for APA internships (one only wants to work in schools, and decided not to). The 1 who did not match took a position at a school [definately a nice fall back]. Several students have completed APA internships at non-school/clinical settings also (children's hospitals, child in-patient homes/schools, etc.).

As for the job thing, there are faculty openings that "highly prefer" or even require completion of an APA internship - something to keep in mind!

yeah that is interesting. i dunno really. my opinion comes from a discussion with a SP prof at a research 1/churn out future profs program who said they encourage students to go for the APA internship because its a resume booster -- because it attests to quality training.

compare that with UT-Austin which is a clincially focused SP doc program. it seems like there the default is to go for an APA internship, regardless of weather the career path is academic, professional, or a combination - all of which are supported by the program. students (and their mentors) work hard towards that goal.

it seems like everyone "wants" the APA, it's just a matter of how much?

i guess i think that if my goal is a career in research, instead of doing a lot of clincial hours, i should do a lot of research. the research/professional split career makes the training path uncertain, but i think it is typically a lot harder to get a career in academia than one as a school psychologist. this makes me think that for someone who wants to land a good career in research (professorship or other competetive position), focusing on research while in school is #1

 

[Schooled]

It's always better to have the APA internship than not. The APA approved internship will not hurt you, and like others have said, it's a resume booster.

You mentioned a career in research. I assume you will also want to be a professor. To teach practice classes one has to have several years of practice. The APA approved internship will help secure good clinical positions to get that experience.

Hospitals, schools, government institutions (including hospitals and schools), all prefer to have someone with an APA internship. Search for job listings, and you will most often see that requirement. At least... that's what I have seen.

 

[FadedC]

Well an APA internship is of great help for hospitals, but I was under the impression that it didn't matter at all for schools. Schools don't even require you to be licensed or have a PhD and are generally more concerned with NASP then APA.

It's important to remember that the situation everyone complains about with an oversupply of clinical psychologists doesn't exist for school psychologists. We are in extreme short supply. Even academic positions in school psychology regularly go unfilled. This is why a lot of people who plan to just work as a school psychologist don't worry about APA internships. We don't need the extra help as much.

But if you plan to work outside the school, then you really do need the extra help. In fact you probably need it more then anyone else because the school psychology degree is not as well understood and accepted by all.

 

[aagman01]

and well stated!

If your intention is solely to work in school settings, then you really do not need to worry about APA internship (except perhaps for a sake of competency). Otherwise, for almost any other line of work (private practice, hospitals, academia, research, etc.) work can be much more competitive and often even requires an APA internship. I would, personally, be wary of the research heavy schools that do NOT emphasize practicum/training/APA internships - it really limits your future opportunities.........

Well an APA internship is of great help for hospitals, but I was under the impression that it didn't matter at all for schools. Schools don't even require you to be licensed or have a PhD and are generally more concerned with NASP then APA.

It's important to remember that the situation everyone complains about with an oversupply of clinical psychologists doesn't exist for school psychologists. We are in extreme short supply. Even academic positions in school psychology regularly go unfilled. This is why a lot of people who plan to just work as a school psychologist don't worry about APA internships. We don't need the extra help as much.

But if you plan to work outside the school, then you really do need the extra help. In fact you probably need it more then anyone else because the school psychology degree is not as well understood and accepted by all.

 

[Jezebel09]

and well stated!

I would, personally, be wary of the research heavy schools that do NOT emphasize practicum/training/APA internships - it really limits your future opportunities.........

That's exactly why I did not apply to them. I want to attend a program with a solid track record of students obtaining APA-accred. internships....

But, I think when looking at a program's match rate, it is important to find out if the students just chose not to apply to APA-accred. internships because of geographical constraints or if they just didn't match. Do you agree?

 

[jnine]

can you talk more about how your research can be applied to APA hours?

cheers!

I have to disagree, I believe it is possible to be heavily involved in research and practice.

By the time I graduate I will have several publications (4 done already, hopefully 2 more in the next year). Also, I will have completed 3 different practicum experiences (1 in school, 2 hospital/clinic). Much of my research has been applied intervention studies in schools, so those hours count for APA hours (very helpful).

In my program, last year 5 out of 6 students applied for APA internships (one only wants to work in schools, and decided not to). The 1 who did not match took a position at a school [definately a nice fall back]. Several students have completed APA internships at non-school/clinical settings also (children's hospitals, child in-patient homes/schools, etc.).

As for the job thing, there are faculty openings that "highly prefer" or even require completion of an APA internship - something to keep in mind!

 

[ILGirl]

Much of my research has been applied intervention studies in schools, so those hours count for APA hours (very helpful).

QUOTE]

I've heard that it is difficult to be able to do research in the schools. Have you found that to be true, or is that just something particular to the program that I am interested in attending?

 

[aagman01]

Sure can! Research that is applied in nature, in which you are conducting assessment or intervention directly. For example, in research I have participated in we ran different behavioral and therapeutic interventions for anxiety. We did a wide range of assessments througout the research. Because the work was with people, and used therapeutic manuals and standardized assessments, it can count towards APA hours. the time spent on intervention (indiivdual and group) and the direct assessments I conducted all count towards face-to-face hours. Because the research we were doing was all evidence-based interventions and direct assessmnt, and because it was overseen with supervision by a licensed psychologist, it can count towards hours.

can you talk more about how your research can be applied to APA hours?

cheers!

 

[aagman01]

Depends on the faculty and the school.

At my program, my professors primary research is within schools. She has relationships with a few schools in the area. Research in schools is almost always more difficult to run than in labs, because it requires additional hurdles to overcome (i.e. working with people within the school, often getting an IRB approved by a school board, etc.). A lot of professors do not "play well" with others and have difficulties getting out of the ivory tower.

In addition to these hurdles, research within schools can not, by its nature, reach the 'gold standard' of experimental research. Namely, research in schools is by its nature quasi-experimental, because the researchers can not randomize participants. That takes away a bit of the "hard science" from the study (although many who do applied research argue that placebo-controlled studies conducted in a lab situation are also plagued by a variety of problems that make them difficult to replicate outside of the controlled labratory. Fun stuff you'll get to learn about in grad school

It really depends on the type of wo

Much of my research has been applied intervention studies in schools, so those hours count for APA hours (very helpful).

QUOTE]

I've heard that it is difficult to be able to do research in the schools. Have you found that to be true, or is that just something particular to the program that I am interested in attending?

 

[aagman01]

I disagree - if grad programs attract a lot of students who can not do APA internship due to geographical constraints, it is likely because that program is attracting a majority of studetns from the local area.

If a program has a majority or even a lot of local students, that, in my opinion, can be a "watch" sign as well - it indicates that the program can not attract the most talented students. If it could, a lot of students would come from across the country to attend the 'well regarded' program.

Make sense?

Another thing to keep in mind is that school psych at the phd level is moving towards APA/APPIC internships and licensure. Programs that do not support that are, in my opinion, behind the times. Again, no facts on my end to support anything I am talking about - just a few thoughts I have formed in the 3+ years I have been a doctoral student in this field.

That's exactly why I did not apply to them. I want to attend a program with a solid track record of students obtaining APA-accred. internships....

But, I think when looking at a program's match rate, it is important to find out if the students just chose not to apply to APA-accred. internships because of geographical constraints or if they just didn't match. Do you agree?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Thanks for the replies--very helpful! I don't want to shut any doors at this point, so the schools that rarely/never send students to APPIC/APA internships were raising a few red flags in my mind.

 

[jnine]

thanks aag!

Sure can! Research that is applied in nature, in which you are conducting assessment or intervention directly. For example, in research I have participated in we ran different behavioral and therapeutic interventions for anxiety. We did a wide range of assessments througout the research. Because the work was with people, and used therapeutic manuals and standardized assessments, it can count towards APA hours. the time spent on intervention (indiivdual and group) and the direct assessments I conducted all count towards face-to-face hours. Because the research we were doing was all evidence-based interventions and direct assessmnt, and because it was overseen with supervision by a licensed psychologist, it can count towards hours.

 

[FadedC]

It is still important to keep in mind though that no matter how well respected and pro-APA internships a school is, there may always just be a lot of students who choose not to do them, even if they do get licensed. Alot of my fellow students are just absolutely convinced that working at a school is for them. They want to start making contacts and gaining experience in the school system where they want to work right away so that they can have a high paying job as soon as they graduate. They aren't interested in an internship in a non school related field in a state that they have no intention of ever working in. Given that school psychologist on average make more money and have a way easier time finding a job then non school psychologists, I can't say I blame them for that. If I were 100% convinced that I wanted to work in a school I'd feel the same way. And who knows, perhaps after my practicum and externship experience I will be.

 

[JP West]

I have made similar observations to FadedC. Although it seems to be becoming increasing popular for school psyc students to pursue APPIC internships, I'm fairly certain that those of us who elected to pursue these internships are still in the minority. I would love to have some data on this matter.

Most of the students in my doctoral program want to be school psychologists and work in schools. Many were previously teachers or worked in other careers and are partnered and settled by the time internship rolls around. They would rather land a ~60k/yr. job a.s.a.p. working 10 months a year than move across the country for a small stipend, to pursue a training year that is unnecessary for their career goals. I realize that programs can differ greatly, that was a snapshot of my personal experience.

In my opinion, you have to be your own strongest advocate to be successful in the internship process regardless of the program you come from. We've read about the struggles of other students on this forum on the 2010-2011 internship thread. Some have had good support from their DCTs and others have not. If you are keeping an APPIC internship on the table for yourself, consider training in a location that will allow you to pursue a variety of externship experiences and accrue sufficient hours to be competitive for APPIC. Its good training anyway and you can decide later on whether or not to apply.

 

[aagman01]

A lot of phd school psych people only want to work in school. I think that is good and fine- I really do not understand why such people do not just do an Masters/Eds - pay for a phd trained school psych over and above a MA/Eds is very minimal, generally only one or two thousand more (assuming same years of experience). When you consider the loss of income for 2-3 years that the phd takes over and beyond a MA/Eds, it really makes little sense (to me, personally).

I know some people say they want the flexibility to go into different settings later on - however, if that is the case, many people won't get too far (since in school settings interns receive minimal supervision, frequently without a licensed psych - not to mention that many states will not consider school hours in a non-APA/APPIC internship towards hours for licensure).

Lastly, I think the number of students who apply to APA/APPIC versus regular school internshp differs on the program. In my program, a majority apply to APA internships. In other programs, from my understanding and observation it is almost the reverse (most do not do APA/APPIC).

I have made similar observations to FadedC. Although it seems to be becoming increasing popular for school psyc students to pursue APPIC internships, I'm fairly certain that those of us who elected to pursue these internships are still in the minority. I would love to have some data on this matter.

Most of the students in my doctoral program want to be school psychologists and work in schools. Many were previously teachers or worked in other careers and are partnered and settled by the time internship rolls around. They would rather land a ~60k/yr. job a.s.a.p. working 10 months a year than move across the country for a small stipend, to pursue a training year that is unnecessary for their career goals. I realize that programs can differ greatly, that was a snapshot of my personal experience.

In my opinion, you have to be your own strongest advocate to be successful in the internship process regardless of the program you come from. We've read about the struggles of other students on this forum on the 2010-2011 internship thread. Some have had good support from their DCTs and others have not. If you are keeping an APPIC internship on the table for yourself, consider training in a location that will allow you to pursue a variety of externship experiences and accrue sufficient hours to be competitive for APPIC. Its good training anyway and you can decide later on whether or not to apply.

 

[FadedC]

Well in New York at least, entry level PhD School Psychologists make a little less then 10k more per year then ones with a MA. Not that this necesarily justifies the extra time spent in school, but then many people say that's true in psychology regardless of where you get your internship.

In terms of flexibility, supposedly the PhD gives you quite a bit of flexibility within the school itself. It's not unheard of for school psychologists to end up with an administrative role or something like that. Supposedly many find school psychology to be an easier thing to pursue while growing a private practice as well.

A lot of phd school psych people only want to work in school. I think that is good and fine- I really do not understand why such people do not just do an Masters/Eds - pay for a phd trained school psych over and above a MA/Eds is very minimal, generally only one or two thousand more (assuming same years of experience). When you consider the loss of income for 2-3 years that the phd takes over and beyond a MA/Eds, it really makes little sense (to me, personally).

I know some people say they want the flexibility to go into different settings later on - however, if that is the case, many people won't get too far (since in school settings interns receive minimal supervision, frequently without a licensed psych - not to mention that many states will not consider school hours in a non-APA/APPIC internship towards hours for licensure).

Lastly, I think the number of students who apply to APA/APPIC versus regular school internshp differs on the program. In my program, a majority apply to APA internships. In other programs, from my understanding and observation it is almost the reverse (most do not do APA/APPIC).

 

[aagman01]

One thought occured to me, so I wanted to post it here.

The match rates for different programs are, I believe, based on the number of applicants who ACTUALLY apply for doctoral programs. Based on that understanding, only students interested in applying for an APA internship are counted in the numbers. Therefore, a poor match rate for a program COULD be indicative that students who WANT to get an APA internship have a difficult time doing so within the particular program.

Here is one listing I know of regarding APA match rates of programs that is available. There may be other, more recent, material out there:

http://www.appic.org/downloads/APPIC_Match_2000-06_by_Univ.pdf


The APA statistics for match rate of different programs

I have made similar observations to FadedC. Although it seems to be becoming increasing popular for school psyc students to pursue APPIC internships, I'm fairly certain that those of us who elected to pursue these internships are still in the minority. I would love to have some data on this matter.

Most of the students in my doctoral program want to be school psychologists and work in schools. Many were previously teachers or worked in other careers and are partnered and settled by the time internship rolls around. They would rather land a ~60k/yr. job a.s.a.p. working 10 months a year than move across the country for a small stipend, to pursue a training year that is unnecessary for their career goals. I realize that programs can differ greatly, that was a snapshot of my personal experience.

In my opinion, you have to be your own strongest advocate to be successful in the internship process regardless of the program you come from. We've read about the struggles of other students on this forum on the 2010-2011 internship thread. Some have had good support from their DCTs and others have not. If you are keeping an APPIC internship on the table for yourself, consider training in a location that will allow you to pursue a variety of externship experiences and accrue sufficient hours to be competitive for APPIC. Its good training anyway and you can decide later on whether or not to apply.

 

[futureapppsy2]

One thought occured to me, so I wanted to post it here.

The match rates for different programs are, I believe, based on the number of applicants who ACTUALLY apply for doctoral programs. Based on that understanding, only students interested in applying for an APA internship are counted in the numbers. Therefore, a poor match rate for a program COULD be indicative that students who WANT to get an APA internship have a difficult time doing so within the particular program.

Here is one listing I know of regarding APA match rates of programs that is available. There may be other, more recent, material out there:

http://www.appic.org/downloads/APPIC_Match_2000-06_by_Univ.pdf


The APA statistics for match rate of different programs

Most programs also list this information (and more recent stats) in their full disclosure data, though some are missing it.

 

[Annakei]

Is there a list somewhere ot can we list them here? I'd like to be clear on which ones require this.

 

[Annakei]

Is there a comprehensive list of these programs online?

 

[jnine]

interesting to see which school programs have v. high match rates! (with a lot of applicants) probably the best indicator of clinical focus and quality of clinical training.

 

[Annakei]

.

 

[aagman01]

Here is the list of APA approved school psych doctoral programs:

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/programs/accred-school.aspx

There is also a lot of good information about school psych graduate programs + training through the Berkley school psych program, located at:

http://gse.berkeley.edu/program/sp/html/sp_gradprograms.html

Is there a comprehensive list of these programs online?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Question for those of you familiar with APPIC/APA match, especially as applied to School Psych: I'm deciding between two programs... At one program, only about 20% of students go through APPIC match, but all of those who do, match APA. At the other program, pretty much everyone goes through APPIC and between 80% and 100% of the students match APA in a given year. Any thought on how I should interpret these stats?

 

[FadedC]

Well I wouldn't put too much focus on the difference in match rates, especially given that school 1 has a much smaller sample size. It's likely that you'd have a good chance of matching in either one.

As for what the fewer people attempting means, that's pure speculation. It does probably mean that many more people at the first school are absolutely sure they want to work as a school psychologist, either in the schools or as an academic. But beyond that is just a guess. Keep in mind that if they are in different geographic areas then both internship opporunities and the state of school psychology in the area can strongly effect things too.

 

[JP West]

I think from reading your other post, the first school is very research heavy? That might explain why fewer students apply for APPIC. The obvious assumption is that those students are going after research positions and may not see the added value of an APA internship for their career path. I would also be wondering if accruing the amount of hours necessary to be successful in the match is discouraged by the program, because it takes away from the research focus. Will you be supported in spending 16-20 hours per week or more on accruing hours, or will this be looked down upon b/c you are expected to be researching a certain amount of hours? Are there a variety of locations where externships are available?

Also, you mentioned that the second school (with more students who apply to APPIC) is closer to your family, free, and has a GAship that is a great match for you. If you are going straight from undergrad to grad, you may also appreciate the breadth of training in the second program to expose you to new areas of interest.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Thanks for the input!

Related question: How much of a disadvantage would one year less of clinical experience be for internship? One program starts in the first year, and the other starts in the second year. I've heard that hours tend to "equalize" around a certain point, but I'm not sure what that is (I've heard everything ranging from 500-1000).

 

[FadedC]

My understanding is that plenty of clinical programs don't start until the second year either, so I wouldn't think it would matter too much as long as you get enough hours.

I'm kind of surprised that school psych programs would put so much emphasis on clinical experience though. Are these combined school psychology/clinical programs?

Thanks for the input!

Related question: How much of a disadvantage would one year less of clinical experience be for internship? One program starts in the first year, and the other starts in the second year. I've heard that hours tend to "equalize" around a certain point, but I'm not sure what that is (I've heard everything ranging from 500-1000).

 

[JP West]

I have heard that hours equalize around 500 or 600 for most sites, and I would believe that based on personal experience.

I would argue for the "fit" of your hours over quantity of hours. Doing 90% of your 700 hours in a school district setting may not set you up well for internships outside of a school district.

Finding my personal balance of externship experiences was an important factor in being successful in the math IMO. Though I worked in a variety of settings, I developed early "specialties" in school-based mental health and assessment with Spanish speaking children. Having that cohesive background of experiences made selling myself to internship sites much easier, and ALL of my 6 interviews were at sites with school-based mental health programs and/or a population of children who speak Spanish 🙂

 

[aagman01]

I agree with the "fit", though I've heard 700 face-to-face hours is that cut point that make one competitive at many (though not all) sites (according to faculty and some reading I've done, such as a recent article in the PsychGrad newsletter (that free one we get with APA student membership).

JP - just curious as to what sites you applied to that had strong "mental health school focus"? I really want to gain experience & competency in different therapeutic techniques, which I am doubtful I can receive thorugh a site that is primarily in a school setting.

I'll be starting the application process this summer, and I was planning to apply mainly to sites that serve children/adolescents in hospitals (children hospitals), community mental health centers, or residential facilities (and that hopefully have some sort of connection to also gain further experiences in school mental health).

Thanks!

I have heard that hours equalize around 500 or 600 for most sites, and I would believe that based on personal experience.

I would argue for the "fit" of your hours over quantity of hours. Doing 90% of your 700 hours in a school district setting may not set you up well for internships outside of a school district.

Finding my personal balance of externship experiences was an important factor in being successful in the math IMO. Though I worked in a variety of settings, I developed early "specialties" in school-based mental health and assessment with Spanish speaking children. Having that cohesive background of experiences made selling myself to internship sites much easier, and ALL of my 6 interviews were at sites with school-based mental health programs and/or a population of children who speak Spanish 🙂

 

[aagman01]

Just to reply to this too -

I think it really depends on what your career aspirations are.

If your definately plan to go the faculty route, then going to a program where few students apply to or match APPIC MAY not matter that much (although there is some debate on that). I could say that two of the 4 faculty in my program did NOT go through APA internship.

However, if your not sure, or if you want to keep your options open, you may want to look at the other site.

Lastly, and most important, I would add that much of grad school is what you make of your experience - you could go to the site with only a 20% match and still accrue experiences to be strong for APPIC. Its really up to you in some ways. In the end, I think match/fit is most important. Whiich program do you think will be best for you? Where can you optimally develop into a professional? Program name/prestige/APA match rates really should be secondary to overall fit (although secure funding/$$ was a big factor to me,to be honest).

Question for those of you familiar with APPIC/APA match, especially as applied to School Psych: I'm deciding between two programs... At one program, only about 20% of students go through APPIC match, but all of those who do, match APA. At the other program, pretty much everyone goes through APPIC and between 80% and 100% of the students match APA in a given year. Any thought on how I should interpret these stats?

 

[JP West]

It's actually "school-based mental health," a model in which a mental health clinic operated by a hospital or CMHC is situated within a public school. I interviewed at Applewood Clinics in Cleveland, and Institute for Child and Family Mental Health in Miami, which both have school-based programs. Also, Riverbend in New Hampshire has a school-based program, but I didn't get an interview there.

I ended up at a child and family community mental health center for internship, even though I have never externed for one! In applying, I emphasized that working in mental health clinics within public schools overlaps in many respects with child-focused CMHC work, and also my internship site is serving a growing Hispanic population and considered my second language skills and experience as highly desirable.

If you have more specific questions about the process feel free to ask backchannel.

I agree with the "fit", though I've heard 700 face-to-face hours is that cut point that make one competitive at many (though not all) sites (according to faculty and some reading I've done, such as a recent article in the PsychGrad newsletter (that free one we get with APA student membership).

JP - just curious as to what sites you applied to that had strong "mental health school focus"? I really want to gain experience & competency in different therapeutic techniques, which I am doubtful I can receive thorugh a site that is primarily in a school setting.

I'll be starting the application process this summer, and I was planning to apply mainly to sites that serve children/adolescents in hospitals (children hospitals), community mental health centers, or residential facilities (and that hopefully have some sort of connection to also gain further experiences in school mental health).

Thanks!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Another question...

I've heard in a few places about completing a school-based (non-APPIC/APA) internship and THEN applying for a non-school-based internship through AAPIC match in order to meet both NASP/school psych licensing requirements (at least 600 hours of internship in a school setting) and general psychology licensing requirements. Does anyone know the ends and outs of this and if it could create any issues with APPIC? Does it's acceptability vary by program (I've seen very few formal statements on this, either way)?

Just gathering info.

Thanks!

 

[aagman01]

Your just proposing to work a year as an intern in a school and then apply for APPIC internship, right? Don't know how this could cause problems with APPIC. Your just gaining a year of experience in the schools. If you can get an LP to provide supervision in the schools, you may be able to get the hours to count (I am not sure how that would work out though, with your status as an intern).

I'm personally just applying to non-school sites this fall (possibly one school site, though it will be through APPIC).

I'm curious, though, as to what your reason for wanting to complete two internships? If you plan to work in the schools upon graduation, why not just complete the school internship. If you want to ensure strong training to work in the schools, why not complete an APPIC school internship (there are like over a dozen APA certified sites and many APPIC ones). If you do not plan to work in the schools, you could complete a site that is partially school and partially community/hospital based or a site that is entirely clinical/community based. Or you could complete your internship at a school APPIC site and then do a post-doctorate in a community/hospital type settting.

Good luck regardless!

Another question...

I've heard in a few places about completing a school-based (non-APPIC/APA) internship and THEN applying for a non-school-based internship through AAPIC match in order to meet both NASP/school psych licensing requirements (at least 600 hours of internship in a school setting) and general psychology licensing requirements. Does anyone know the ends and outs of this and if it could create any issues with APPIC? Does it's acceptability vary by program (I've seen very few formal statements on this, either way)?

Just gathering info.

Thanks!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Your just proposing to work a year as an intern in a school and then apply for APPIC internship, right? Don't know how this could cause problems with APPIC. Your just gaining a year of experience in the schools. If you can get an LP to provide supervision in the schools, you may be able to get the hours to count (I am not sure how that would work out though, with your status as an intern).

I'm personally just applying to non-school sites this fall (possibly one school site, though it will be through APPIC).

I'm curious, though, as to what your reason for wanting to complete two internships? If you plan to work in the schools upon graduation, why not just complete the school internship. If you want to ensure strong training to work in the schools, why not complete an APPIC school internship (there are like over a dozen APA certified sites and many APPIC ones). If you do not plan to work in the schools, you could complete a site that is partially school and partially community/hospital based or a site that is entirely clinical/community based. Or you could complete your internship at a school APPIC site and then do a post-doctorate in a community/hospital type settting.

Good luck regardless!

I'm only a first year, so nothing's remotely set in stone at this point! I'm really just trying to get a full picture of what options may be available down the line. I'm definitely planning to go the APA/APPIC route for internship (something my program *strongly* encourages)--probably with Ped Psych training, so likely a hospital affiliated setting--and apply for full psych licensure when eligible but wouldn't want to totally shut the door on school psych licensure in case I do end up working in schools in the future. Or can the required 600 school-based hours be gained pre-internship through school-based practica?

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

From the APPIC FAQ section:

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Question 18. Is it possible for me to complete two internships? For example, if I accept a non-accredited internship this year, can I apply for a second, accredited internship the following year?

APPIC occasionally receives inquiries from students who did not successfully match to an internship program, asking if it would be acceptable to complete a non-accredited internship with the plan to re-enter the Match in the following year in order to secure an accredited internship at that time. The theory is that the student would gain additional experience during the first internship, with the hope of being more competitive when he/she re-applies for a second internship.

While the APPIC Board understands the thinking behind such a strategy, the Board strongly discourages students from pursuing two internships. Due to the imbalance between applicants and positions, it would simply make things worse for all applicants if students started doing two internships. In this regard, internship Training Directors are very unlikely to consider a student who has already completed (or is in the process of completing) an internship. Thus, a student who accepts an internship with the idea of later seeking a second internship actually has very little chance of succeeding in this goal.

Furthermore, it is very important that applicants NOT view internship as an opportunity to strengthen their experience in hopes of obtaining a "better" internship the following year. Instead, students who wish to gain additional experience in order to be more competitive for an internship should do so by arranging additional practicum experiences through their doctoral programs.

Thus, students should make their internship selection decisions with the understanding that they will complete one, and only one, internship.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the school psych v. counseling/clinical offers a new wrinkle to the question, I think the same answer will probably apply. As you get closer to applying, it would be worth contacting the APPIC board and get their position on your question.

 

[aagman01]

Also, you would not be "shutting the door" on ever working in a school setting if you completed an internship in a clinical/CMHC sort of setting. NASP accredition is not, to my knowledge, required for a job in any state. Rather, NASP accredition is a certification demonstrating that you have the background consistent with what the organization (NASP) recognizes as requisite training to work as a school psych. Its not required in any state to have the NASP credential. State boards of education credential individuals to practice school psychology in the schools. The NASP credential is most helpful for 3 tangible reasons that I can think of:

(1)Could be helpful for getting a job (especially if you a applying for positons as a MA/CAGS applicant),
(2)Could result in a slightly higher salary (many states/school districts will offer a bit more (1 or 2 thousand annually is what I have seen/heard generally, though it can vary from $0 more to perhaps a few thousand).
(3)Transportability issues. That is, a number of states (though only a minority of total states, I'm not sure of the total number) recognize NASP credential for state licensure purposes. So if you move in-between states, having that NASP credential can reduce the bureaucratic hastles involved with getting licensed state DOE.

Main point - you can still work in schools without 600 hours of school-based internship. You could, theoretically, complete an APPIC internship in a non-school setting, then get a job in a school (without NASP certification) and then, after a year, apply with those hours completed working in the school, for NCSP credential. Of course, you should check with your state board to make sure what I said is correct regarding internship requirements. I do know more than 1 individual that went the route I outlined.

I'm only a first year, so nothing's remotely set in stone at this point! I'm really just trying to get a full picture of what options may be available down the line. I'm definitely planning to go the APA/APPIC route for internship (something my program *strongly* encourages)--probably with Ped Psych training, so likely a hospital affiliated setting--and apply for full psych licensure when eligible but wouldn't want to totally shut the door on school psych licensure in case I do end up working in schools in the future. Or can the required 600 school-based hours be gained pre-internship through school-based practica?

Thanks for the reply!

 

[FadedC]

Couldn't you get your 600 hours of school experience completed in externships too? Remember that these requirements are meant to be completable by non doctoral school psych students who do not have a formal internship matching proccess like APPIC. I'm not positive but I was under the impression that their internships are the same as our externships.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Also, you would not be "shutting the door" on ever working in a school setting if you completed an internship in a clinical/CMHC sort of setting. NASP accredition is not, to my knowledge, required for a job in any state. Rather, NASP accredition is a certification demonstrating that you have the background consistent with what the organization (NASP) recognizes as requisite training to work as a school psych. Its not required in any state to have the NASP credential. State boards of education credential individuals to practice school psychology in the schools. The NASP credential is most helpful for 3 tangible reasons that I can think of:

(1)Could be helpful for getting a job (especially if you a applying for positons as a MA/CAGS applicant),
(2)Could result in a slightly higher salary (many states/school districts will offer a bit more (1 or 2 thousand annually is what I have seen/heard generally, though it can vary from $0 more to perhaps a few thousand).
(3)Transportability issues. That is, a number of states (though only a minority of total states, I'm not sure of the total number) recognize NASP credential for state licensure purposes. So if you move in-between states, having that NASP credential can reduce the bureaucratic hastles involved with getting licensed state DOE.

Main point - you can still work in schools without 600 hours of school-based internship. You could, theoretically, complete an APPIC internship in a non-school setting, then get a job in a school (without NASP certification) and then, after a year, apply with those hours completed working in the school, for NCSP credential. Of course, you should check with your state board to make sure what I said is correct regarding internship requirements. I do know more than 1 individual that went the route I outlined.

Very helpful to know that a NCSP isn't a be-all, end-all necessity.

Thanks for the detailed response! I'm pretty sure my population of interest lends itself well to hospital-based work, but I could see it potentially involving school settings as well, so I wanted to keep the possibility of working in schools as well as other settings open. I'm assuming I'll get a more solidified sense of this once I actually get started in practica next year, though, and be able to go from there.

Couldn't you get your 600 hours of school experience completed in externships too? Remember that these requirements are meant to be completable by non doctoral school psych students who do not have a formal internship matching proccess like APPIC. I'm not positive but I was under the impression that their internships are the same as our externships

I've gotten that impression from some places and not from others. I'll ask our DCT for some clarification when I see them next week.

Thanks for the responses!

 

[aagman01]

My first thought is no, that extern hours can not count towards 600 hours for NASP purposes.

I checked the NASP site, and found the following document, which furthers my belief that one can not count externship hours towards NASP 600 hour requirements. This document provides an overview of requirements for an individual to receive NCSP certification for both specialist/CAGS and doctoral students

http://www.nasponline.org/students/internships.pdf

I copied a portion of this document, which states rather clearly the requirements for a doctoral level school psych student to receive NCSP certification:

What are the internship requirements for doctoral certification or licensure?

􀂃 NASP training standards require that doctoral internships include at least 1500 hours of supervised experience, with at least 600 hours in a school (P-12) setting.
􀂃 In order to qualify for NCSP, and for certification through most state departments of education, you must complete at least 600 internship hours or the equivalent in a school (P-12) setting (some states require more school-based experience than this). Individuals that have completed a prior, supervised, school-based internship (e.g., at the master’s or specialist level) may consider, an internship site that does not include school-based experience, (e.g., at a clinic, hospital, university, or residential treatment facility), if the internship is consistent with the student’s program and NASP internship standards.
􀂃 Doctoral graduate students in school psychology who pursue an APA accredited and/or APPIC internship will typically meet state psychology board requirements for licensure as a psychologist. There are a limited number of school based internships that are APA or APPIC accredited. Information about these internships is available at www.apa.org and www.appic.org .

Couldn't you get your 600 hours of school experience completed in externships too? Remember that these requirements are meant to be completable by non doctoral school psych students who do not have a formal internship matching proccess like APPIC. I'm not positive but I was under the impression that their internships are the same as our externships.