Importance of Leadership?

[tchan]

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How important is leadership under one's belt? And what exactly qualifies as "leadership" experience? Thanks.

 

[Ponger]

How important is leadership under one's belt? And what exactly qualifies as "leadership" experience? Thanks.

In my opinion, leadership is one of the many "not terribly insightful, but absolutely necessary" parts of the med school application. Just like volunteering and research. By that I mean I believe you can be a decent doctor without having any one of those attributes. But again they're pretty much absolute necessities on the med school apps nowadays.

Leadership, as is self-evident, is when you lead people. We're talking a organizational or administrative manner. In a student club, we're talking the President/VP/Secretary/Treasurer though some people would argue secretary and treasurer aren't truly leadership roles but merely administrative. In sports team, leadership would be a team captaincy.

 

[tchan]

Thanks for the reply.

So would starting my own club or organization be sufficient? Or would I have to do much more than that?

 

[JennaQ]

Jesus Christ. Pre-med club here we go.

 

[Mobius1985]

So would starting my own club or organization be sufficient? Or would I have to do much more than that?

This would be looked at as leadership, but be prepared to describe in the narrative potion exactly what you did. How did you inspire, organize, cause change, take on responsibility, achieve the group's objectives? A Friday night card playing group where you made sure the keg arrived on time probably won't be too impressive. A group that raises money for philanthropic causes or performs community service on a regular basis would get you lots of points.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Starting your own club would be fun and involves leadership.

 

[tchan]

My college offers a series of leadership workshops "for student leaders to further develop their own personal leadership skills and interact with other students, faculty and staff in a small setting." Would attending these count toward leadership experience?

 

[TexasPhysician]

My college offers a series of leadership workshops "for student leaders to further develop their own personal leadership skills and interact with other students, faculty and staff in a small setting." Would attending these count toward leadership experience?

In my opinion.....no. Listening to someone talk about leadership isn't exactly leading anything.

 

[JennaQ]

My college offers a series of leadership workshops "for student leaders to further develop their own personal leadership skills and interact with other students, faculty and staff in a small setting." Would attending these count toward leadership experience?

Are you ****ing serious.

 

[NickNaylor]

No offense, but you're trying too hard.

 

[tchan]

I'm only asking questions, people. I haven't done sh** yet. Thanks to TexasPhysician for the courteous answer.

 

[JennaQ]

I'm sorry. I haven't given you a real response because I didn't want to look like a dork. I also found this to thread to be a little ridiculous. So here is my serious response.

I liked exploring system registry keys and some of the basic client-side OS that common computer viruses usually target. (Nothing too serious. Just a little hobby while I was bored.)

I got a job at my University's computer labs and wasn't happy that I was dealing with the mundane task of making sure that the printers had paper and that patrons knew how to convert documents so they could open a .pdf in .ppt.

I went to my supervisor and asked if I could do more with my job. I told him that I would be willing to receive additional training or take on more reading during my spare time. I received a handbook and learned same basic networking. I dealt with simple networking connections and also went out to fix broken hub-caps and ip registration policies.

Now I'm being considered to be an assistant supervisor. Am I doing this for medical school? No. I just wanted to learn more about my job and not be some arbitrarily useless occupant. I like learning about complex languages and how computers are run in abstract and complex terms. I like how TCP/IP works, it almost reminds me of professors who are trying to teach us information but it doesn't always go through. At least for me 😕

Please don't be a leader for medical school. Be a leader because you like what you're doing and the people you will be working with. Because when you talk about leadership with an adcom, you won't have to b.s. about how you enjoyed what you did.

 

[Evergrey]

Find something that inspires or intrigues you (a hobby, interest, or cause) and get involved in it. The leadership aspect will come with time.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Hey guys, would coaching football for a high school team during summers be counted as leadership by adcoms? Or would they want something more academically related like a school club?

 

[calnation]

I would think coaching would be a good leadership experience

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I would think coaching would be a good leadership experience

Thanks for the thumbs up. Though, it seems your avatar is missing an index finger.

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm only asking questions, people. I haven't done sh** yet. Thanks to TexasPhysician for the courteous answer.

Sorry if you took my response as rude, but you should relax. Getting involved in things JUST for leadership experience is silly. Starting clubs or organizations JUST for leadership experience is silly. Like Evergrey said, get involved in things you enjoy. You will more than likely want to serve as a leader in those activities if you really enjoy them. Plus, you will come across as more genuine and interested when you talk about these experience because, check this out, you actually will be.

Personally, if I were looking at an applicant, I would rather them be a leader in an organization they're genuinely interested in than start an organization and not have much to talk about. That's why I found your second post humorous.

 

[tchan]

Sorry for rudely responding to your response. I was just exploring my college's website and this workshop thing just stood out for me. I do plan to actually join/create clubs that interest me, not just for the sake of my resume, but if I had extra time on my hands, those workshops could help my personal skills. I have a few clubs in mind: classic cinema club, badminton sports club. Anyhow, thank you all again.

 

[premed21]

Is being a TA for a bio course considered a leadership activity?

 

[WashMe]

Does teaching MCAT prep count as leadership? I mean, I told 20+ people what to learn/do for 7 weeks...

 

[RedTurboCCX]

Does your school offer ROTC? You can take the course for four semesters without any obligation, and you should be able to make it up to squad leader or platoon sergeant by then.

Training people how to react quickly when under fire, and inspire people to accomplish the mission should count as leadership 😀

 

[Lukkie]

Is being a TA for a bio course considered a leadership activity?

Does teaching MCAT prep count as leadership? I mean, I told 20+ people what to learn/do for 7 weeks...

i can't find the post but I know LizzyM directly discussed these experiences before and concluded that no, they (teaching) are not leadership.

 

[Handy388]

this is why I stay away from premed clubs. In my possibly biased opinion, I find the local premed club to be a "leadership" mill where freshman join so they can have their leadership experience by the time they are a senior.

 

[calnation]

Thanks for the thumbs up. Though, it seems your avatar is missing an index finger.

Nah, it's just really short and stubby, otherwise there would be an empty space. 😛

 

[zpiff]

My college offers a series of leadership workshops "for student leaders to further develop their own personal leadership skills and interact with other students, faculty and staff in a small setting." Would attending these count toward leadership experience?

Not at all. Please don't list these anywhere when you apply.

 

[fastfingers]

Is leadership even required by med school? My advisor basically told me that clubs or leadership is not needed and I don't need to do it unless I'm extremely interested in doing it. Basically told me to just have clinical experience and I don't need leadership stuff.

So my question is, how important is leadership in applying? Can I still get into top tier without leadership? It seems like the application I'm building up has everything except for leadership.

 

[Greonis]

Is leadership even required by med school? My advisor basically told me that clubs or leadership is not needed and I don't need to do it unless I'm extremely interested in doing it. Basically told me to just have clinical experience and I don't need leadership stuff.

So my question is, how important is leadership in applying? Can I still get into top tier without leadership? It seems like the application I'm building up has everything except for leadership.

I doubt that anyone here can accurately answer this question for you. First of all, the importance of leadership is likely to differ between adcoms/schools, so one leadership activity has the potential to boost your application at one school while having no effect at another. Secondly, what constitutes actual "leadership" experience is incredibly open-ended, and may very well once again depend on the preferences of the applicant/adcoms. Remember, just about everyone here is examining the inner workings of the application process through a foggy eyeglass, and even those who do have insight are only going to be able to share it with you via the context of their limited exposure (IE: the procedures at a single medical school).

Based on the challenges associated with knowing whether or not leadership will help you, my advice is as such: if you find (or have already found) something that involves what you believe to be leadership and is of great interest to you for other reasons, stick with it, and emphasize your responsibilities over others on the application. But, if you feel that you have to take up an activity just so you can select "leadership" from the drop-down menu when entering an extracurricular activity, don't bother. For as little as we may know about how adcoms select students, I would guess that many students have been admitted to a wide gamut of schools without indicating clear leadership experience, be it because they were able to demonstrate it in other ways or because it is not as necessary as the "blind leading the blind" might like to think. I would propose that the name of the game is less about ticking boxes and meeting vague "personal" requirements than it is simply presenting yourself as a well-rounded individual who is capable of and interested in practicing medicine. You can accomplish the latter easily without having been a "leader" in your pre-med days (again, keep in mind the subjectivity of that term...)

 

[pride4jc727]

The importance of leadership comes into play because let's face it, doctors will be thrusted into difficult situations in which difficult decisions need to be made in regards to the patient's welfare. Don't you think it makes sense that some one who has self-esteem, confidence, and integrity in him or herself makes sense when that person who is your physician is about to recommend a course of action for you?

Medicine is one of the most highly respected professions and has a reputation of having a high level of integrity. Don't you think leadership is more of a prerequisite rather than a recommendation for an applicant is aspiring to be a physician one day?

 

[fastfingers]

Is having extracurricular important then? I know I shouldn't do it for the sake for checkbox, but it looks awfully bad to leave it blank.

 

[virusgirl]

The importance of leadership comes into play because let's face it, doctors will be thrusted into difficult situations in which difficult decisions need to be made in regards to the patient's welfare. Don't you think it makes sense that some one who has self-esteem, confidence, and integrity in him or herself makes sense when that person who is your physician is about to recommend a course of action for you?

Medicine is one of the most highly respected professions and has a reputation of having a high level of integrity. Don't you think leadership is more of a prerequisite rather than a recommendation for an applicant is aspiring to be a physician one day?

I would agree that "self-esteem, confidence, and integrity" are important components of being a good and effective doctor, but personally, I don't think those qualities are related to having official "leadership" positions. You develop these attributes by being in difficult situations and rising to the challenge -- and those situations arise for everyone, leaders and non-leaders alike.

I don't think that leadership, in the conventional sense of the word, should be used as a prerequisite for people who want to be physicians -- I actually think that would be a bad thing. There are some qualities that we would hope would be universal to all doctors, such as intelligence, compassion, integrity, etc. But leadership is a little different in the sense that if you have a lot of leaders together, you can end up with friction if everyone wants to lead everyone else. I think med schools probably realize this, and when they ask about leadership, I doubt there is a right or wrong answer, because you need all types for an effective group dynamic.

Instead of seeking to become leaders per se, I think doctors should instead try to exercise good judgement: lead others when it's clear that you have something to offer that others don't, and let others lead when they have something to offer.

 

[fastfingers]

How would you be able to show adcom that I have good judgement?

I mean a question is, has anybody been successful with med school admission with nearly no Extra curricular (but still with the usual job shadow, volunteer, and research)? I'm aiming for top-tier so I think my lack of EC will really hold me back.

 

[virusgirl]

Well, volunteering and research do constitute ECs (unless you're getting academic credit for your research, in which case I would guess it doesn't). Just because you aren't involved in clubs or something like that doesn't mean you don't have ECs. Could you be a little more specific as to what types of things you're involved in (and how many hours/week)?

As to showing adcoms that you have good judgement... this is where LORs are important, particularly those that aren't from academic professors who are commenting almost exclusively on your performance in their classes. For example, your LORs might attest to: your ability to treat patients compassionately when they are given bad news, your initiative in solving a problem, your mature handling of a complicated issue... You can also write about this in your PS.

Showing that you have good judgement is tricky, because there's no box you can check off. However, your LORs will hopefully address this, and you can definitely use your secondary essays/PS/interviews to discuss situations where you did this.

 

[bquillera13]

I was a reapplicant this year. One of the things that I think really helped my application was the fact that I was the Vice President of Service for my Service Fraternity. It's something I love and was able to become really involved in. I think leadership is an essential characteristic for a good physician. I think it's just as important as doing research or volunteering.

 

[melanoleuca]

Replace "Marine" with any other title and combat with any activity and, allowing that most of life is not the military, the following are all you need to know to be a leader and the lack of which makes yer' stinking leadership experience just emotional masturbation.


Marine Corps Leadership Principles and Traits

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Know yourself and seek self-improvement. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Be technically and tactically proficient. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Develop a sense of responsibility among your subordinates. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Make sound and timely decisions. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Set the example. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Know your Marines and look out for their welfare. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keep your Marines informed. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ensure assigned tasks are understood, supervised, and accomplished. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Train your Marines as a team. .
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Employ your command in accordance with its capabilities.
  
  . Marine Corps Leadership Traits [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] .

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dependability.
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The certainty of proper performance of duty..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bearing .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Creating a favorable impression in carriage, appearance and personal conduct at all times..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Courage .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mental quality that recognizes fear of danger or criticism, but enables a man to proceed in the face of it with calmness and firmness..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Decisiveness .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ability to make decisions promptly and to announce them in clear, forceful manner..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Endurance .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mental and physical stamina measured by the ability to withstand pain, fatigue, stress and hardship..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Enthusiasm .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The display of sincere interest and exuberance in the performance of duty..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Initiative .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Taking action in the absence of orders..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Integrity .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Uprightness of character and soundness of moral principles; includes the qualities of truthfulness and honesty..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Judgment .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The ability to weigh facts and possible solutions on which to base sound decisions..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Justice .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Giving reward and punishment according to merits of the case in question. The ability to administer a system of rewards and punishments impartially and consistently..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Knowledge .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Understanding of a science or an art. The range of one's information, including professional knowledge and an understanding of your Marines..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tact .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The ability to deal with others without creating offense..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Unselfishness .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Avoidance of providing for one's own comfort and personal advancement at the expense of others..

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Loyalty .
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The quality of faithfulness to country, the Corps, the unit, to one's seniors, subordinates and peerss.

 

[londongal]

How about being a manager of a restaurant? I'm not one, but I'm just wondering

 

[Red Leader]

Joining a pre-med club is useless unless you are the one running it. But then again compared to other applicants across the states that all have 2 or 3 pre-med clubs are their schools you will be nothing special. It will simply fill in the gap that is leadership in your apps. If you want true leadership you really gotta find something you give a damn about and work your ass off for, which most pre-meds find difficult since they only give a damn about getting into med school.