Importance of undergrad school reputation...

[8744]

I've got to laugh.

I graduated from Louisana Tech (in Civil Engineering) and applied and was accepted to both LSU New Orleans and LSU Shreveport Schools of Medicine with a 29 on the MCAT and a rather low GPA.

It aint the Ivy League, but we like it just fine.

I did half of my undergraduate work at the University of Vermont. There is a difference in quality between "big name" eastern schools and no-name state schools...but its not that big a difference. I paid $4000 per year to attend Louisiana Tech and three times that at UVM. The difference is certainly not worth the extra tuition. Mickey Mouse courses are the same everywhere I believe except at UVM you get a big old helping of political correctness and extra credit if you love homosexuals, Native Americans, and minorities.

I would have applied to UVM medical school except I probably wouldn't have got an interview. And I am just not touchy-feely enough to survive in Vermont.

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[torkd]

Go U NU

I be a chem major. chem major is hard.
theres a small joke that i hear from time to time...

limit (work approaches zero) engineering = Econ

which basically goes to say that science/engineering is hard, and those that can't get the grades become econ majors at nu. and econ majors tend to have alot more fun than the science (bio/chem/physics also engineering) types at NU cause its not really as intense.

so i dont think its fair to say that theres really grade inflation, at least from my point of view from the chem dept. Now the school of music is a different colored monkey, its quite laughable to have a GPA less than 3.7.

 

[DarkChild]

bump... I just want to have this thread and the "does med schools matter for residencies" thread right next to each other.
i find it funny that the game never ends...

 

[An Yong]

For so many people who think philosophy majors are easy have obviously not taken any philosophy courses because I see many logical fallacies...

Here's one:

many people make this argument,

"I know so-and-so who goes to this ivy-league college and got a bad grade, then they took a summer course at a state institution and got an A"

This statement is somewhat meaningless... why?

A. just because they thought that getting an A at ONE state institution is easy does not mean getting an A in ALL state instutions is also easy

B. People seem to forget that summer courses tend to be more lax than in a normal semester (its summer!). Usually people can get good grades during the summer term because they can focus on just one or two classes.

C. I just want to clarify that the most difficult thing in math is proofs, and philosophy majors are all about proofs =P

End Rant

 

[UCLA2000]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
I've got to laugh.

I graduated from Louisana Tech (in Civil Engineering) and applied and was accepted to both LSU New Orleans and LSU Shreveport Schools of Medicine with a 29 on the MCAT and a rather low GPA.

It aint the Ivy League, but we like it just fine.

I did half of my undergraduate work at the University of Vermont. There is a difference in quality between "big name" eastern schools and no-name state schools...but its not that big a difference.

Congratulations on your success. Nobody is saying that it's not possible to get into medical school from a state school (many people do it every year). The statement that is being made is that the reputation of the school you attend during undergrad DOES matter. I was incredibly fortunate to be able to go from a well known state school to an ivy league medical school. Frankly, not that many people do it. Most of my classmates went to ivy league schools.

In fact, I believe that most of the students at the ivy league med schools went to ivy league undergrad schools. The fact of the matter is that in general people who do well at big name schools are looked highly upon by adcoms.

I understand the gist of what you said in your response, and again I commend you for your many successes, however
I think you're lying to yourself if you really believe this statement:

"There is a difference in quality between "big name" eastern schools and no-name state schools...but its not that big a difference. "

**This next statement is directed at an undergraduate degree**
If that were really true, then a graduate from Louisiana Tech is on the same level as a graduate from Harvard. They would receive the same opportunities, prestige, and monetary benefits.

 

[souljah1]

After finding out where all of my classmates went for undergraduate, I'd say that where you went to undergrad does factor in, more than just a tad.

 

[MGoBlue13]

Originally posted by judoka
Are you kidding me? Ivy league schools are alot better than state ones. I went to amherst college, which is also better than states schools, and I have taken classes at u of maryland. No doubt, premed at an ivy is harder and more fulfilling. The fact is, going to an ivy is a disadvantage for most students because the do far worse here than they would at a state school. That's why we get the bump up. I go to cornell, which is mad hard. The kids who go here were the top of their classes, even the ones that get c's, so it's fair that our gpa's get weighted more. I took princeton review with state school kids over the summer. These ******s couldn't get more than a 22 on their MCAT but their gpa's were all 3.7's and up. Who are you kidding? I had a 3.4 and my mcat's were higher than my teachers there. Med schools are not stupid, they know that being at an ivy is far harder. You can justify to yourself why you feel things are as such, but you would be hard pressed to convince anyone who has ever compared the two types of students.

Wow.... spoken like a true dingus.

Keep in mind... not all state school students are incapable of attending ivy league undergrads. I personally know many students who turned down the ivy league schools in order to attend state schools so that they could avoid the arrogant attitudes of the very, very few students at ivy league schools, such as yourself, that give the ivy league a bad name.

Oh, and by the way, I go to a state school, the University of Michigan. The quality of many students there and at other public schools (Virginia, Berkeley, etc.) definitely rivals that of Cornell. And there are many students at schools that might not be so highly ranked that are much smarter than both you and I. Heck, there are even people who did not graduate high school that are smarter than both of us. Just because you have gained admission to Cornell does not make you smarter than all of these people.

You no doubt will find that when (if) you go to medical school many of your classmates will have gone to state schools, and that many of these students will be smarter than you and will do better than you.

And just a side note- finishing tops in your class in high school is not that impressive once you've had four years of undergrad. High school is a game, and those that are willing to play it do well. I am not saying that most do this, but some do. If you are willing to fight for every point, argue every wrong answer, and generally bitch and moan your way to an A in every class, then you might finish at the top. However, I contest that it is the students that are okay with not finishing at the top of their class that actually get the most out of high school.

And they should have taught you this at Cornell. Be a little humble. If you can't learn this virtue now, I guarantee that medical school will bring you down to earth real quick.

 

[MeganRose]

Originally posted by medicnas
Judoka:

You're wrong Feel free to disagree...but it won't change the facts that you're quite horribly incorrect.

Also, I sincerely hope that you're not trying to say that Amherst is an Ivy League school! If you go to Cornell now (presumably for grad/med school) then you are attending an Ivy.

For those who may not know: an Ivy League institution is one that is a member of the Ivy League Athletic Conference. The following is a complete and accurate list of ALL of the Ivy league schools:

Princeton
Harvard
Yale
Columbia
Dartmouth
Brown
Penn
Cornell

For the purposes of this debate, I think ppl are using the term Ivy League school as a cognate for top ten school which I think is appropriate. When applying to undergrad I had to decide btwn a Ivy league school and a top ten school-- IMO what seperates the top 15 or so schools is where they happen to fall in US News that year.

 

[relatively prime]

Ok, enough is enough... the degree to which your undergrad matters depends on one and only one thing...the med school you're applying to. For example, Columbia pretty much only wants ivy students... while WashU doesn't give a hoot where you went to college.

I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but I come from a no-name state school and have had interviews at Duke, UPenn, Yale, UMich, CWRU, WashU, Vanderbilt, Mayo, UChicago, OSU and Baylor. I bet there are a few kids at Harvard who only wish they had those interviews! And my stats are not though the roof (3.76/34Q) and I'm not a rhodes scholar.... And at all these interviews... at least 20-30% of the students were from no-name state schools.
SO there!!

 

[Street Philosopher]

i dunno. there are harvard interviewees at every interview i go to! plus the students are from harvard too. so yeah i guess it matters somewhat.

 

[relatively prime]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
i dunno. there are harvard interviewees at every interview i go to! plus the students are from harvard too. so yeah i guess it matters somewhat.

I didn't say all... I said a few. And furthermore, you don't know how many Harvard students were turned down for an interview!

But anyway... really, it's mostly a self-selecting thing. Students at ivy league/ivy+ schools are more competitive and tend to be smarter... in general. If they weren't they wouldn't be at an ivy league school. I don't think it's so much that med schools favor these students as much as it just so happens that they tend to be better students. For example, the average MCAT at MIT is like a 31-32. Whereas, I'd guess the average at my school is a 23-24.

And notice... I said that at my interviews 20-30% were from no-ame state schools. That means that 70-80% were from "good" schools. And I'd say maybe 30-40% were from ivy (or ivy+) schools. So obviously, they are over-represented. However, I don't think it's because med schools favor them... I think it's just because they tend to be better students.

 

[DW]

SDN---->

<-----the undergrad school debate

"ya, dead horse, take that!!! AND THAT!!!!"

 

[8744]

Originally posted by UCLA2000
Congratulations on your success. Nobody is saying that it's not possible to get into medical school from a state school (many people do it every year). The statement that is being made is that the reputation of the school you attend during undergrad DOES matter. I was incredibly fortunate to be able to go from a well known state school to an ivy league medical school. Frankly, not that many people do it. Most of my classmates went to ivy league schools.

In fact, I believe that most of the students at the ivy league med schools went to ivy league undergrad schools. The fact of the matter is that in general people who do well at big name schools are looked highly upon by adcoms.

I understand the gist of what you said in your response, and again I commend you for your many successes, however
I think you're lying to yourself if you really believe this statement:

"There is a difference in quality between "big name" eastern schools and no-name state schools...but its not that big a difference. "

**This next statement is directed at an undergraduate degree**
If that were really true, then a graduate from Louisiana Tech is on the same level as a graduate from Harvard. They would receive the same opportunities, prestige, and monetary benefits.

And I congratulate you on your successes. And I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, either.

I don't know if Harvard offers a degree in engineering. For your information, there are few differences in starting salaries between engineers from low-ranked state schools and better known institutions, and the differences have more to do with the cost of living in Boston as compared to Shreveport.

Now if we're talking about Harvard Law School or the Medical School you may have a point.

 

[jtheater]

At a recent interview I had at a top-ten medical school, my interviewer flat out said that the prestige of an undergraduate school is taken into consideration during the admissions process. She said she would be more impressed with someone with a 3.6 from Yale than a 3.9 from a middle tier school. "It's just a different level." At all of my interviews so far, all but one or two (out of ten in most cases) went to a ivy or equivalent school and even the majority of those went to stanford, harvard, yale, princeton, mit. Not that my visits are representative of everyone being interviewed, I must agree that reputation of undergrad is a significant factor. This is both a combo of the students who chose to (and are accepted) to these schools and the reputation of the school itself. Also, these schools generally tend to have a high overal acceptance rate to med school. I think >80% of those who apply from my undergrad get accepted in a given year. Isn't the national avg around 50?

This is just my experience. At the same school that the interviewer told me this, my tour guide went to a "no-name" state school (and it was out-of-state).

 

[klp14]

Originally posted by judoka
Are you kidding me? Ivy league schools are alot better than state ones. I went to amherst college, which is also better than states schools, and I have taken classes at u of maryland. No doubt, premed at an ivy is harder and more fulfilling. The fact is, going to an ivy is a disadvantage for most students because the do far worse here than they would at a state school. That's why we get the bump up. I go to cornell, which is mad hard. The kids who go here were the top of their classes, even the ones that get c's, so it's fair that our gpa's get weighted more. I took princeton review with state school kids over the summer. These ******s couldn't get more than a 22 on their MCAT but their gpa's were all 3.7's and up. Who are you kidding? I had a 3.4 and my mcat's were higher than my teachers there. Med schools are not stupid, they know that being at an ivy is far harder. You can justify to yourself why you feel things are as such, but you would be hard pressed to convince anyone who has ever compared the two types of students.

Wow. Okay, I've ignored this thread so far because I thought it was overdone, but judoka you really are an a$$. I am a Cornellian and am ashamed that such a great school (not for the fact that it's an Ivy, but for the fact that I made my closest friends there and for the most part had a great experience there) accepted such an arrogant loser. You are the reason why the Ivys have a bad rep.

People should choose an undergrad where they feel happy...it's as simple as that. Your academic performance and future success may or may not be guided by the name on your diploma, but it sure as heck has a lot to do with how happy you are.

'Nuff said.

 

[14931]

Originally posted by DW
SDN---->

<-----the undergrad school debate

"ya, dead horse, take that!!! AND THAT!!!!"

 

[UCLA2000]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
And I congratulate you on your successes. And I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, either.

I don't know if Harvard offers a degree in engineering. For your information, there are few differences in starting salaries between engineers from low-ranked state schools and better known institutions, and the differences have more to do with the cost of living in Boston as compared to Shreveport.

Now if we're talking about Harvard Law School or the Medical School you may have a point.

I actually wasn't trying to tie it down to any one undergrad program, and I must admit that I don't know anything about the engineering program. However I would suspect that it is easier to make the contacts necessary to get a cushie job if you come from a school like Harvard.

 

[Handy388]

I agree, there are plenty of qualified applicants from public/private/big name/not so big name/blah blah blah whatever schools. If you are hesitant about applying to schools because you think you're school is inadequate in some way, then you got a whole 'nother set of issues to deal with. Just f'n apply and if some adcom doesn't like you b/c of your school, then f*ck them. You wouldn't wanna go to that ****hole anyway.

I didn't mean to disrespect any schools (except Cal) in any way, but I felt the need to respond to certain individuals whose opinions of Stanford's grade inflation were misguided (or at least I thought so).

and to kam730, the median on that test was b/w 10 and 20 and i got a 97. Obviously, the teacher was partly at fault with the test or a deficiency in teaching the students, but still, u fill the rest of the class with Stanford kids, that **** doesn't happen.

I went to community college and graduated from a state school, turned down a stanford acceptances.

My father was kind enough to support the cost of my college education, which was cheaper than usual.

He ended up purchasing a bunch of rental properties and basically assured his own retirement after I graduated from college.

One day, he sat me down and showed me, that if he was to pay the tuition and COA for Stanford, it's either I get into massive debt or him unable to afford those investments.

BTW, I still got into a top 20 med school.

Looking at the amount of college degree those days, I am not sure if I would pay sticker price to go to any Ivies.

 

[bigbad]

I went to community college and graduated from a state school, turned down a stanford acceptances.

My father was kind enough to support the cost of my college education, which was cheaper than usual.

He ended up purchasing a bunch of rental properties and basically assured his own retirement after I graduated from college.

One day, he sat me down and showed me, that if he was to pay the tuition and COA for Stanford, it's either I get into massive debt or him unable to afford those investments.

BTW, I still got into a top 20 med school.

Looking at the amount of college degree those days, I am not sure if I would pay sticker price to go to any Ivies.

Holy ****, 7 year bump. NEW WORLD RECORD!!! Haha

 

[pride4jc727]

Holy ****, 7 year bump. NEW WORLD RECORD!!! Haha

Definitely funny. Agreed.