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[thehappydoctor]

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Is med school admissions just as random as undergrad admissions? I recently graduated high school and faced a practically random admission process ( was not granted a seat in the ivies despite high sat, high gpa, competitive high school, AMAZING ECS, high sat 2s, lots of pas, hard class load, VERY GOOD recs,etc.) I did not necessarily want to attend an IVY ( first choice was accelerated med program( got 1 interview call, but was rejected at second stage DESPITE GREAT INTERVIEW)) Are top med school adcoms this random? Starting to question meaning of doing all these ECs and performing well academically if it will only get me into my safety undergrad and in the future a safety med school.....

 

[SpecterGT260]

Is med school admissions just as random as undergrad admissions? I recently graduated high school and faced a practically random admission process ( was not granted a seat in the ivies despite high sat, high gpa, competitive high school, AMAZING ECS, high sat 2s, lots of pas, hard class load, VERY GOOD recs,etc.) I did not necessarily want to attend an IVY ( first choice was accelerated med program( got 1 interview call, but was rejected at second stage DESPITE GREAT INTERVIEW)) Are top med school adcoms this random? Starting to question meaning of doing all these ECs and performing well academically if it will only get me into my safety undergrad and in the future a safety med school.....

I am not getting a sense of "random" from your description.... it sounds more like your stats are not as competitive as you seem to think. A random admission system would be if you got rejected from a state school but accepted to an ivy league. Difficulty getting into hard schools is more indicative of the norm than of something random.

 

[thehappydoctor]

hmm well it was pretty random that i got an interview call from a accelerated med program (which calls MUCH LESS percentage than any of the ivy leagues where i was straightaway rejected...)

 

[Praefectus]

The med school application process is a crapshoot. Your stats will indicate if you are competitive for an interview, but you could expect virtually anything after that. People with beastly stats can be rejected from their "safety school" while people with lukewarm stats might get accepted to Vandy. It just depends on your luck.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Is med school admissions just as random as undergrad admissions? I recently graduated high school and faced a practically random admission process ( was not granted a seat in the ivies despite high sat, high gpa, competitive high school, AMAZING ECS, high sat 2s, lots of pas, hard class load, VERY GOOD recs,etc.) I did not necessarily want to attend an IVY ( first choice was accelerated med program( got 1 interview call, but was rejected at second stage DESPITE GREAT INTERVIEW)) Are top med school adcoms this random? Starting to question meaning of doing all these ECs and performing well academically if it will only get me into my safety undergrad and in the future a safety med school.....

Sounds like you just got shafted for undergrad. For med they look at everything and everything counts. Pulling the "screw it, it wont make a difference anyway" move when it comes to ECs could really hurt you in the end. Never let bitterness from the past affect your future.

PS: Didn't you just advise someone else in a different post about how important volunteer hours are and how brutal adcoms are and how your app needs to be well rounded? haha you're throwing around two completely ideas here

 

[thlaxer]

There is some randomness to this admissions process (e.g. who your interviewer is), but in my opinion, it's by no means a crapshoot. If someone applies broadly and early to many (Ivy/non-Ivy) schools and gets rejected from all of them, chances are their application is just not as competitive as they originally thought for these schools. It's unlikely that that person just had bad luck at every single (Ivy/non-Ivy)school.

If you look on MDApps, you'll see some people who got interviews at >75% of their schools, there's obviously something about their application that is attracting this type of attention. Similarly, there are some people who got accepted at most of the places they interviewed at. It's more likely that they gave good interview impressions rather than simply getting lucky with all of their acceptances (though luck may've played a role).

Doing well academically and having good ECs and LORs definitely do improve your odds of getting into the school of your choice, but they are by no means a guarantee because there are many other applicants who are going to bring the same things (and more) to the table. If someone truly is the creme of the crop, they should have their pick of very good schools. It's just that many people are likely overestimating the "greatness" of their ECs, LORs and interviewing skills, which makes them think this process is a total crapshoot when they don't get into any of the schools they were hoping for.

 

[mimelim]

Is med school admissions just as random as undergrad admissions? I recently graduated high school and faced a practically random admission process ( was not granted a seat in the ivies despite high sat, high gpa, competitive high school, AMAZING ECS, high sat 2s, lots of pas, hard class load, VERY GOOD recs,etc.) I did not necessarily want to attend an IVY ( first choice was accelerated med program( got 1 interview call, but was rejected at second stage DESPITE GREAT INTERVIEW)) Are top med school adcoms this random? Starting to question meaning of doing all these ECs and performing well academically if it will only get me into my safety undergrad and in the future a safety med school.....

No offense, but neither are crap shoots. There is an element of luck in every process, but you seem to lack a fundamental understanding of how these processes work or even what they are looking for. Your post really sounds like you fall into the classic, fluff application without substance.

Things like "Amazing ECs", "very good recs", and "great interview" sound like an over inflated ego and a sense of entitlement. It sounds like you have this cookie cutter image of what belongs in an application and that you think you fully understand the valuation of different components.

Stop doing ECs that you think look great on applications. Stop doing them for the sake of doing them and do something productive with your time. You might actually learn something.

 

[mimelim]

How about answering this classic admissions question: What is your single greatest accomplishment to date?

With such amazing LOR/ECs, this should be trivial.

 

[thehappydoctor]

tough crowd....

 

[SpecterGT260]

No offense, but neither are crap shoots. There is an element of luck in every process, but you seem to lack a fundamental understanding of how these processes work or even what they are looking for. Your post really sounds like you fall into the classic, fluff application without substance.

Things like "Amazing ECs", "very good recs", and "great interview" sound like an over inflated ego and a sense of entitlement. It sounds like you have this cookie cutter image of what belongs in an application and that you think you fully understand the valuation of different components.

Stop doing ECs that you think look great on applications. Stop doing them for the sake of doing them and do something productive with your time. You might actually learn something.

You're talking to an 18 year old. Can you honestly say you didnt suffer from the same things at that point? I know I did

 

[Colonel Sanders]

You're talking to an 18 year old. Can you honestly say you didnt suffer from the same things at that point? I know I did

Solid point, I didn't even know what AMCAS or adcoms were at 18. I was too busy choosing which distressed faded jeans would look best with my Holister T

 

[mimelim]

You're talking to an 18 year old. Can you honestly say you didnt suffer from the same things at that point? I know I did

Yes, I can honestly say I don't think I suffered the same things when I was 18 years old. When I was 12, I read a quote by Mark Twain, "Never let your schooling interfere with your education." I have tried to live by that since then. Our jump through hoop driven admissions processes has made doing that an uphill battle at times. I have told an interviewer straight up that I have never cared about jumping through hoops for grades and cared more about learning.

I don't think I suffered from these delusions, primarily because I didn't think about this stuff. When I was 18, I was taking 20+ credits, more than half of which were upper division Physics classes. Why? Certainly not because I am smarter than my colleagues, I doubt that. I was doing that because they were interesting and grades be damned. I was going to get every last penny worth of knowledge and wisdom that professors were willing to offer me. I certainly wasn't thinking about LOR or picking my ECs based on how they looked. I picked my ECs because I have 18 waking hours a day and I'm not wasting my life sitting around not doing something interesting.

I certainly am not trying to imply that everyone should give grades the middle finger and understand that I'm a reasonably extreme. I do however firmly believe that many of my medical school classmates were hurt by an extreme sense of entitlement based purely on grades/numbers and being able to jump through hoops better than other people.

Edit: I don't think I new what AMCAS was until less than 2 weeks before I had to start turning things in.

 

[thehappydoctor]

Solid point, I didn't even know what AMCAS or adcoms were at 18. I was too busy choosing which distressed faded jeans would look best with my Holister T

That being said, can some of you medical students/MDs/etc. assure me that if I do well on the MCAT, have AMAZING ECs, Good LORs, a high gpa, and an intense commitment to medicine, I will make it to med school?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

That being said, can some of you medical students/MDs/etc. assure me that if I do well on the MCAT, have AMAZING ECs, Good LORs, a high gpa, and an intense commitment to medicine, I will make it to med school?

Of course, just scroll through any thread on sdn and find posts by med students that have filled out MDapps. You can see where they applied, how much success they had, and all of their ECs, volunteer work, grades, mcat, etc. You'll notice that the people with tons of acceptances always have outstanding apps all around. They almost never have glaring holes like no volunteer work or low GPA/MCAT.

Keep in mind though that numbers alone sometimes wont get you in. A friend of mine with a 3.7 GPA, 36 MCAT, and tons of research/volunteering didn't get in this year. I can only speculate as to why but I know he has a somewhat lazy personality and likes to do the bare minimum required of him. This may have shown in his interviews and led to him not getting in. But based on what you said about yourself and the fact that you're even asking these questions this early I dont think you're going to have a problem with that.

 

[mimelim]

That being said, can some of you medical students/MDs/etc. assure me that if I do well on the MCAT, have AMAZING ECs, Good LORs, a high gpa, and an intense commitment to medicine, I will make it to med school?

Yes, if you do well on your MCAT, actually have amazing ECs (realize you have zero clue what that means, otherwise you wouldn't describe it this way continuously), have good LOR, high GPA and a commitment to medicine you will make it to medical school.

Are you happy now? An MD 🙂laugh: first time I'm referring to myself as an MD, haha) has answered your question. It is not a crap shoot. On average, better applicants get into better schools.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Yes, I can honestly say I don't think I suffered the same things when I was 18 years old. When I was 12, I read a quote by Mark Twain, "Never let your schooling interfere with your education." I have tried to live by that since then. Our jump through hoop driven admissions processes has made doing that an uphill battle at times. I have told an interviewer straight up that I have never cared about jumping through hoops for grades and cared more about learning.

I don't think I suffered from these delusions, primarily because I didn't think about this stuff. When I was 18, I was taking 20+ credits, more than half of which were upper division Physics classes. Why? Certainly not because I am smarter than my colleagues, I doubt that. I was doing that because they were interesting and grades be damned. I was going to get every last penny worth of knowledge and wisdom that professors were willing to offer me. I certainly wasn't thinking about LOR or picking my ECs based on how they looked. I picked my ECs because I have 18 waking hours a day and I'm not wasting my life sitting around not doing something interesting.

I certainly am not trying to imply that everyone should give grades the middle finger and understand that I'm a reasonably extreme. I do however firmly believe that many of my medical school classmates were hurt by an extreme sense of entitlement based purely on grades/numbers and being able to jump through hoops better than other people.

Edit: I don't think I new what AMCAS was until less than 2 weeks before I had to start turning things in.

Sheesh. Did you walk uphill both ways in the snow too? 🙄

 

[mimelim]

Sheesh. Did you walk uphill both ways in the snow too? 🙄

I don't get it. You asked if I felt the same way the OP did when I was 18. I didn't feel the same way because I approached my education differently. That really seems that foreign to you? You really think that all pre-meds are homogeneous grade chasing neurotics?

 

[SpecterGT260]

I don't get it. You asked if I felt the same way the OP did when I was 18. I didn't feel the same way because I approached my education differently. That really seems that foreign to you? You really think that all pre-meds are homogeneous grade chasing neurotics?

No but I do think that cursory exposure to teenagers would explain a little naive self promotion and reduce the need for.handing down life lessons.

 

[mimelim]

No but I do think that cursory exposure to teenagers would explain a little naive self promotion and reduce the need for.handing down life lessons.

I have a hard time understanding exactly what you wrote. I assume you were saying that if I had more exposure to teenagers, I would realize that naive self promotion is normal and there is no need to try to help them since it is normal. (I'm responding to that, if you didn't mean that, sorry =/)

To me the biggest thing that stands in the way of someone like the OP is, themselves. Bright students end up wasting a lot of time, hating their undergrad because they grew up in a culture where jump through hoops was life. Given the number of medical school classmates I had still handicapped by this, I don't mind spinning my wheels a little bit trying to help. If the OP ignores me and moves on with his life, no big deal. But hey, maybe he'll enjoy his undergrad 2% more than before and maybe will do something interesting that medical schools will want to hear about. *shrug* I've got the time right now, might as well try. (Plus it is cathartic to write one's thoughts out 🙂)

 

[SpecterGT260]

I have a hard time understanding exactly what you wrote. I assume you were saying that if I had more exposure to teenagers, I would realize that naive self promotion is normal and there is no need to try to help them since it is normal. (I'm responding to that, if you didn't mean that, sorry =/)

To me the biggest thing that stands in the way of someone like the OP is, themselves. Bright students end up wasting a lot of time, hating their undergrad because they grew up in a culture where jump through hoops was life. Given the number of medical school classmates I had still handicapped by this, I don't mind spinning my wheels a little bit trying to help. If the OP ignores me and moves on with his life, no big deal. But hey, maybe he'll enjoy his undergrad 2% more than before and maybe will do something interesting that medical schools will want to hear about. *shrug* I've got the time right now, might as well try. (Plus it is cathartic to write one's thoughts out 🙂)

👍

 

[bassvp]

Hmmm...is it bad that I perused this thread only to see if someone would recommend a gap year before college and to re-apply to the ivies?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Hmmm...is it bad that I perused this thread only to see if someone would recommend a gap year before college and to re-apply to the ivies?

Don't do that....

 

[kpcrew]

rather than it being naive self promotion, i think it's just another example of the dunning-kruger effect. incompetent people tend to greatly overestimate their abilities and can't recognize skill in others. it's the same reason why people think that they sound like elvis when they sing despite the fact that their voice is more akin to a screeching cat or how people think that they can easily make decisions like a ceo when in reality, they would probably be completely inept. it's hard to judge your application objectively if you don't have any experience being on an admissions committee.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

rather than it being naive self promotion, i think it's just another example of the dunning-kruger effect. incompetent people tend to greatly overestimate their abilities and can't recognize skill in others. it's the same reason why people think that they sound like elvis when they sing despite the fact that their voice is more akin to a screeching cat or how people think that they can easily make decisions like a ceo when in reality, they would probably be completely inept. it's hard to judge your application objectively if you don't have any experience being on an admissions committee.

HAHAHA thats so harsh, go easy on the kid. You basically just called an 18 year old "incompetent" and "inept". Can't we all just be friends. Hug it out

 

[kpcrew]

no, i'm exactly the same. i'm not insulting him, i meant incompetent people as someone who lacks a particular skill and consequently cannot recognize skill in others, not that op is incompetent.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

no, i'm exactly the same. i'm not insulting him, i meant incompetent people as someone who lacks a particular skill and consequently cannot recognize skill in others, not that op is incompetent.

Oh gotcha, so inexperienced and unprepared in their ability to judge their own app? I guess I just read it out of context.

 

[SpecterGT260]

rather than it being naive self promotion, i think it's just another example of the dunning-kruger effect. incompetent people tend to greatly overestimate their abilities and can't recognize skill in others. it's the same reason why people think that they sound like elvis when they sing despite the fact that their voice is more akin to a screeching cat or how people think that they can easily make decisions like a ceo when in reality, they would probably be completely inept. it's hard to judge your application objectively if you don't have any experience being on an admissions committee.

I shoulda taken more psych..... In many of my posts I have said "I feel like this is just due to a failure of imagination".... Thanks for expanding my vocabulary 👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

Oh gotcha, so inexperienced and unprepared in their ability to judge their own app? I guess I just read it out of context.

I think it can also be expanded upon: think of any of your college friends who were taking communications (not to dog on that degree, per say.....) who had the "OMG hardest project ever due, like 3 whole pages of writing!". The most extreme scenario you can actually fathom with understanding is only that which you have experienced. So to someone with an IQ of 50, the smartest of the smartest demonstrate an IQ of 50. A similar analogy can be applied to mid-level practitioners who assert they are trained to the same level as physicians, but that is a conversation for another day

 

[mmmcdowe]

That being said, can some of you medical students/MDs/etc. assure me that if I do well on the MCAT, have AMAZING ECs, Good LORs, a high gpa, and an intense commitment to medicine, I will make it to med school?

No one can 100% assure you that even with all of those things you will get into medical school. The odds will high vastly in your favor, however. Poor interviews, late applications, and poor school selection can doom any applicant.

Also, SDN is arguably one of the best examples of dunning-kruger effect in the known universe.

 

[jjesque]

rather than it being naive self promotion, i think it's just another example of the dunning-kruger effect. incompetent people tend to greatly overestimate their abilities and can't recognize skill in others. it's the same reason why people think that they sound like elvis when they sing despite the fact that their voice is more akin to a screeching cat or how people think that they can easily make decisions like a ceo when in reality, they would probably be completely inept. it's hard to judge your application objectively if you don't have any experience being on an admissions committee.

I think this also is the reason people say med school admissions is a "crapshoot". It's not, but the sense of entitlement in premeds (i.e. I got an interview at a top school so I should have gotten one at my state school!!) is strong.

 

[mirimonster]

Is med school admissions just as random as undergrad admissions? I recently graduated high school and faced a practically random admission process ( was not granted a seat in the ivies despite high sat, high gpa, competitive high school, AMAZING ECS, high sat 2s, lots of pas, hard class load, VERY GOOD recs,etc.) I did not necessarily want to attend an IVY ( first choice was accelerated med program( got 1 interview call, but was rejected at second stage DESPITE GREAT INTERVIEW)) Are top med school adcoms this random? Starting to question meaning of doing all these ECs and performing well academically if it will only get me into my safety undergrad and in the future a safety med school.....

Somebody's bitter with an over-inflated ego. Ever thought you're not as good as you think you are?

Yes, I can honestly say I don't think I suffered the same things when I was 18 years old. When I was 12, I read a quote by Mark Twain, "Never let your schooling interfere with your education." I have tried to live by that since then. Our jump through hoop driven admissions processes has made doing that an uphill battle at times. I have told an interviewer straight up that I have never cared about jumping through hoops for grades and cared more about learning.

I don't think I suffered from these delusions, primarily because I didn't think about this stuff. When I was 18, I was taking 20+ credits, more than half of which were upper division Physics classes. Why? Certainly not because I am smarter than my colleagues, I doubt that. I was doing that because they were interesting and grades be damned. I was going to get every last penny worth of knowledge and wisdom that professors were willing to offer me. I certainly wasn't thinking about LOR or picking my ECs based on how they looked. I picked my ECs because I have 18 waking hours a day and I'm not wasting my life sitting around not doing something interesting.

I certainly am not trying to imply that everyone should give grades the middle finger and understand that I'm a reasonably extreme. I do however firmly believe that many of my medical school classmates were hurt by an extreme sense of entitlement based purely on grades/numbers and being able to jump through hoops better than other people.

👍 x10000 and I'm keeping that Mark Twain quote forever.