important question about rank order list

[howlagadus]

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i know this sounds ridiculous but i need to be sure. i really like some of the prelim-med programs that im listing on my supplemental rank order list. so much that i want to rank them on my primary as well....right after my pgy2 programs. is that okay to do so? it shouldnt be a problem right? i'm fully aware of the situation that i would end up in by matching in a prelim medicine - knowing that there is no gaurantee that i can continue there the year after - but i want to try for my pgy 2 field again next year if i dont match this year. thus, im wondering which would be a better route to do so...from a prelim standpoint or a categorical im standpoint.

 

[doc_strange2001]

humm..Id like to know the answer to this too. Im applying for 9 gas programs. Should i rank transitional programs 10-15. So that just in case i dont match in gas I can at least match for a transitional postion? Is this the way to do that.

 

[howlagadus]

the way i see it, it shouldnt be a problem. the only way you can match at any of your transitional prgrams is from your supplemental rol. but that means you achieve your gas program as well. knowing that the supplemental rol will not kick in unless you match at your pgy2, then i assume ranking those same transitional programs on your primary rol right after your gas programs should secure you a spot. there has to be a handful of people who on match day end up with : pgy2 - not matched, pgy1- matched. i've heard of a few cases like this myself. unless they ranked their prelim spots on their primary rol, the only other way someone can land a prelim or transitional spot is through the pre-match or scramble. that is rare and difficult. especially for transitional.

 

[iwakuni_doc]

Just be aware that if you put your preliminary programs at the end of your ROL & match there - you are MATCHED. No ability to scramble for any potential spots in your residency of choice - no knowledge that you did not match in your residency of choice.

Trust me, you don't want to get up there thinking that you've matched into gas/derm/EM/etc & open your letter in front of everybody and only see a prelim year on your paper....it happened to a friend of mine & the look on his face was devastating.

Now if going to one particular prelim program is the end-all & be-all for you and you don't mind re-applying the following year, then by all means go for it...

 

[doc_strange2001]

Originally posted by iwakuni_doc
Just be aware that if you put your preliminary programs at the end of your ROL & match there - you are MATCHED. No ability to scramble for any potential spots in your residency of choice - no knowledge that you did not match in your residency of choice.

Trust me, you don't want to get up there thinking that you've matched into gas/derm/EM/etc & open your letter in front of everybody and only see a prelim year on your paper....it happened to a friend of mine & the look on his face was devastating.

Now if going to one particular prelim program is the end-all & be-all for you and you don't mind re-applying the following year, then by all means go for it...

ewww..good point, id want a chance to scramble for gas. Nevermind

 

[howlagadus]

how is it possible that if you rank prelim programs at the end of your rol and match there, and then not be able to scramble in a unfilled pgy2 position? if you match at a prelim, then you matched only for one year -pgy 1. so, during the scramble, you should be allowed to contact the pgy2 programs that went unfilled and try to get a spot. then again, since im going for rads, there realistically wont be any unfilled spots anyway.

 

[iwakuni_doc]

Originally posted by howlagadus
how is it possible that if you rank prelim programs at the end of your rol and match there, and then not be able to scramble in a unfilled pgy2 position? if you match at a prelim, then you matched only for one year -pgy 1. so, during the scramble, you should be allowed to contact the pgy2 programs that went unfilled and try to get a spot. then again, since im going for rads, there realistically wont be any unfilled spots anyway.

It's the difference between listing the prelim program on your primary ROL vs your supplemental ROL. The match is set up to place you in the highest ranked program on your primary ROL - if that happens to be #10 and a prelim program...you've matched in their eyes. It doesn't matter that it's only one year of post-graduate education - there are plenty of people who choose to only apply for that one year, whether it is due to plans in military, research, etc. Since you've officially "matched" - you won't get the call from your dean's office notifying you that you went unmatched, hence you won't have the knowledge or opportunity to scramble for any open positions.

 

[howlagadus]

i see. well, i think ill go ahead and rank all my prelims right after my rads, and then rank some categorical meds after those prelims. either way, im still going to try for rads again if i dont match this year. thanks for the advice.

 

[Jim Picotte]

This is not true. Go ahead and put some transitional or prelim programs at the end of your list if you have no desire for other specialties. On that Monday of match week you'll get an e-mail from NRMP saying either "you matched", "you matched to an advanced position" this means you matched say radiology but not the prelim med or transtional year or "you matched to a preliminary position". You WILL KNOW on that Monday of match week and you will also know (by way of your Dean) which city you matched into so you can scramble for that advanced or preliminary position.

I went through this 2 years ago and had the same concerns myself. I researched this issue thoroughly and saw the letters after the match indicating all three possible replies from the NRMP.

If you list both radiology and categorical IM programs on your match list then you WILL NOT know what you matched into until Thursday when you open that envelope.

 

[iwakuni_doc]

I stand corrected, thanks for the current info J.P. - that's what I get for relaying info as I knew it from several years ago.

 

[howlagadus]

thanks jim picotte! so, here's my primary rol plan...i rank my rads programs, then all my prelims, and then my categoricals. the way im ranking my prelims on the primary rol is pretty much the same sequence as on my supplemental rol by the way. so, what do you guys think? even though at the bottom of the primary rol...the reason i decided to actually rank my categoricals is of the following:


i want rads more than anything and am willing to try again next year if i dont match this year. so, whether i go into a prelim or categorical im...when i try again in september....im going for a 2006 position. so, it really doesnt matter whether im a prelim or pgy1 categorical because i have a year gap to fill up providing i get a 2006 position. in that case...wouldnt it be easier to be in a categorical program? if im in a prelim starting july and match fo a 2006...then i have to find a way to fill that 2005-2006 year..assuming that the im program wont keep me for another year. to my knowledge, i still want to rank my prelims higher because i have this notion that if i begin a categorical program in july...and start applying again in september....that it would look really bad upon me from the pd's mind as well as almost anyone else in the faculty. i just dont know what complications they could create for me in trying to leave. what's your all take on this?

 

[tetris]

hi howlagadus,

i'm no expert, but here's what i think.

if you get matched to a categorical IM position, and then next year you get matched for radiology, you will be able to leave the IM program after your first year (or after your 2nd, if that's how you wish to spend the in-between year) because although you're matched for a 3-year program, your contract is for the first year only.

a one-year contract gives residents the ability to quit after a year, and it gives the program the right to refuse to renew a resident's contract (i.e., fire him/her) after a year. the program wouldn't like the former to occur because they then have to find a replacement. (and residents wouldn't like the latter to occur for obvious reasons).

as i said, I'm no expert on this, so feel free to correct me. good luck getting rads.