Improving Endo application...CE worth mentioning in interview/personal statement?

[Specialdentiste]

Applied to Endo residency this last cycle. Applied to 15 schools, went on 3 interviews, and was put on a wait-list for one of them. Close, but not good enough... I want to make sure that I get accepted next cycle, and I want to improve my application. I was asked about how much and what CE I had done at all of the programs I interviewed at. This was an obvious hole in my application since I'm a pretty recent grad and I hadn't really done much CE worth mentioning at that point, and I also didn't do a GPR/AEGD. Since July I've accumulated 55 credits of Endo CE. How many CE credits should I strive for before the next application cycle? How many CE credits would even be worth mentioning? I am actually really glad that I've been doing this because I have learned a lot, and will continue to do so regardless of my application. I just don't want to mention something, if its going to seem underwhelming...

If you have any other input, or tips to improve my application I would greatly appreciate it.
- I had 3 recommendations: My main clinic supervisor from D.S., an Endodontist I work with in private practice, and another general dentist who I have known for 15 years
- My application was a little late and didn't get officially submitted until July 5
- upper-bottom half class rank, high ADAT , 2 years experience
- attended the AAE, I am wondering if it will be helpful to attend again. I plan to but I have a family event that may interfere this year.
- I have no research experience, but I don't really see how I can change that

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[AONLINE]

Is your DS letter writer an endo faculty or just general dentistry? People always told me that letter from an endo faculty carries the most weight. Has the 3rd letter writer worked with you in any setting? I would replace that letter if the writer knows you mostly from your personal life, not professional life.

 

[Specialdentiste]

Is your DS letter writer an endo faculty or just general dentistry? People always told me that letter from an endo faculty carries the most weight. Has the 3rd letter writer worked with you in any setting? I would replace that letter if the writer knows you mostly from your personal life, not professional life.

DS letter writer is faculty in general dentistry, my main clinic supervisor. The second one is/was an endo faculty but was not for me. The third one has not worked with me professionally at, he is just a dentist that knows me well and for a long period of time. Initially, I figured this would be a well rounded group. I want to ask my own endo faculty, but of the 3 I had the opportunity to interact with 2 of them are now in the position that had invited and interviewed me for a residency positions so I don’t know how appropriate it would be for me to ask them... the other one I really don’t know well at all, and I’m pretty sure it would just end up being a letter and not much to it.

 

[AONLINE]

DS letter writer is faculty in general dentistry, my main clinic supervisor. The second one is/was an endo faculty but was not for me. The third one has not worked with me professionally at, he is just a dentist that knows me well and for a long period of time. Initially, I figured this would be a well rounded group. I want to ask my own endo faculty, but of the 3 I had the opportunity to interact with 2 of them are now in the position that had invited and interviewed me for a residency positions so I don’t know how appropriate it would be for me to ask them... the other one I really don’t know well at all, and I’m pretty sure it would just end up being a letter and not much to it.

You should really reach out to the 2 faculty that interviewed you. Asked them what they thought were the strengths and weaknesses of your app and what could you improve for next cycle. Also specifically asked them if your LORs were strong enough or you should obtain new ones. They would give you the best advice. Good luck!

 

[Specialdentiste]

You should really reach out to the 2 faculty that interviewed you. Asked them what they thought were the strengths and weaknesses of your app and what could you improve for next cycle. Also specifically asked them if your LORs were strong enough or you should obtain new ones. They would give you the best advice. Good luck!

Thank you for the advice!

 

[Specialdentiste]

Thank you for mentioning the CE aspect. I wasn’t aware program directors expected practicing dentists take formal continuing education.

I really don't think it's a requirement in any way, but I think it makes sense to have done at least some CE if you're in private practice and that's what you're interested in.

 

[Torshammer]

I was fortunate enough to be accepted in the last cycle. The 55 units is great, but you should continue attending endo CEs consistently. I attended 7 or 8 endo CE courses spread out over the course of 2 years. 3 of them were hands-on/multi-day courses, but the other 4 or 5 were just lectures. I put them all on my CV as well as my non-endo CE. If I were you, I would go to the AAE meeting again and be able to give your thoughts on a few interesting lectures.

I think it's all about showing how much you know and how interested you are in the field during the interview. Also, are you starting to do molar endo in private practice yet? Some schools like USC like applicants that have some good clinical experience under their belt.

 

[rubberdamit]

Sounds like you are on the right track. I think the two easiest ways to improve your chances are by getting a letter from an endo faculty member from your school and getting your app in earlier. Lots of schools interview in July and give interviews on a rolling basis.. if any of those programs were on your list then I think those could have been an automatic no just based on timing of your app. Shoot for having everything in by the first of June. Just talking stats but earlier application = increased chances of landing interviews = increased chance of acceptance. Best of luck!

 

[Svart Aske]

Letters from endo or at least other specialists would help. Aim for more than the minimum of 3.

 

[allDAT]

Congratulations on landing some interviews. I applied last cycle and did not get in either. I did not get the impression that CE would push an applicant over the hill to gain acceptance though. Did you speak with program directors after your interviews to confirm that more CE would be the solution?

Given the info you provided, I would attend the AAE again.
Get a letter from a board certified endodontist. Since you recently graduated, you should probably have one from your school’s endo undergraduate director or at least 1 endo faculty too (assuming there was an endo department there).
Apply earlier.

Certainly, if you are applying to a program that has a CE continuum, and you live nearby, you should take the course.

Other than that, taking any one of the popular 2-3 day courses is fine. Although, depending on the program/faculty interviewing you, they don’t necessarily agree with the philosophy or techniques being taught by private endodontists.

I got the impression that most programs want their applicants to be teachable. Taking hundreds of hours of CE in endo and then emphasizing that during your interview, may be interpreted as someone who “knows it all”, and is not necessarily teachable. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck next cycle!

 

[FutureDent020]

I got the impression that most programs want their applicants to be teachable. Taking hundreds of hours of CE in endo and then emphasizing that during your interview, may be interpreted as someone who “knows it all”, and is not necessarily teachable. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck next cycle!

Yea, this is very true. Even if you have a ton of experience make sure you mention that you know the areas you need to work on and you realize there is a difference between doing a RCT as a GP and as an Endodontist, which is why you want to be a specialist. Kind of work off that. Every program is different. Some like candidates with a lot of experience so they don’t have to pay much attention to them in clinic. Some programs want brand new clinicians so they can mold them exactly how they want.

 

[Specialdentiste]

I was fortunate enough to be accepted in the last cycle. The 55 units is great, but you should continue attending endo CEs consistently. I attended 7 or 8 endo CE courses spread out over the course of 2 years. 3 of them were hands-on/multi-day courses, but the other 4 or 5 were just lectures. I put them all on my CV as well as my non-endo CE. If I were you, I would go to the AAE meeting again and be able to give your thoughts on a few interesting lectures.

I think it's all about showing how much you know and how interested you are in the field during the interview. Also, are you starting to do molar endo in private practice yet? Some schools like USC like applicants that have some good clinical experience under their belt.

Thank you for your input. Instead of trying to cram in a bunch of random endo CE, I think I will just consistently invest in courses I would actually enjoy attending, along with attending the AAE. I have been doing 1-2 molar endos a week in private practice.

Letters are everything

It has always been a struggle for me to ask for letters. I always feel uncomfortable doing so.

Sounds like you are on the right track. I think the two easiest ways to improve your chances are by getting a letter from an endo faculty member from your school and getting your app in earlier. Lots of schools interview in July and give interviews on a rolling basis.. if any of those programs were on your list then I think those could have been an automatic no just based on timing of your app. Shoot for having everything in by the first of June. Just talking stats but earlier application = increased chances of landing interviews = increased chance of acceptance. Best of luck!

I am going to try and get one from my DS undergrad program director.

Letters from endo or at least other specialists would help. Aim for more than the minimum of 3.

Do you think having a letter from an endodontist in private practice would be more valuable than one from a GP dental school faculty?

Congratulations on landing some interviews. I applied last cycle and did not get in either. I did not get the impression that CE would push an applicant over the hill to gain acceptance though. Did you speak with program directors after your interviews to confirm that more CE would be the solution?

Given the info you provided, I would attend the AAE again.
Get a letter from a board certified endodontist. Since you recently graduated, you should probably have one from your school’s endo undergraduate director or at least 1 endo faculty too (assuming there was an endo department there).
Apply earlier.

Certainly, if you are applying to a program that has a CE continuum, and you live nearby, you should take the course.

Other than that, taking any one of the popular 2-3 day courses is fine. Although, depending on the program/faculty interviewing you, they don’t necessarily agree with the philosophy or techniques being taught by private endodontists.

I got the impression that most programs want their applicants to be teachable. Taking hundreds of hours of CE in endo and then emphasizing that during your interview, may be interpreted as someone who “knows it all”, and is not necessarily teachable. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck next cycle!

Thank you! I agree in that they are looking for someone teachable, but from talking to residents it seems that they also don't want someone who needs their hand held through clinic. I don't think that taking CE is going to get anyone accepted, but I have realized that it comes with the package of someone who is in private practice and is interested in endodontics. Two of the PDs did explicitly suggest that I take more CE, so I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much would be worth mentioning.

Yea, this is very true. Even if you have a ton of experience make sure you mention that you know the areas you need to work on and you realize there is a difference between doing a RCT as a GP and as an Endodontist, which is why you want to be a specialist. Kind of work off that. Every program is different. Some like candidates with a lot of experience so they don’t have to pay much attention to them in clinic. Some programs want brand new clinicians so they can mold them exactly how they want.

Thank you for your input

 

[Digitalangel]

Hi! I could use some advice about what letters to get too. I am a new grad, I applied during my third year but had no interviews. Now that I have been working, I want to apply again this year. We only had one endodontist at my school who no longer works there, he also had an injury and never had any interest in teaching or helping students. I did get a letter from him last time. There is a new endo faculty member now but I never met them durimg my time in school. I emailed them and expressed my interest in applying this year. I could get a strong letter from a general dentist I work with, and the program director of the out reach clinic that I attended fourth year, but I am at a loss of getting an endo letter. I have also shadowed an endodontist, but he just out of residency so I dont think that will help. What should I do?

 

[Torshammer]

Hi! I could use some advice about what letters to get too. I am a new grad, I applied during my third year but had no interviews. Now that I have been working, I want to apply again this year. We only had one endodontist at my school who no longer works there, he also had an injury and never had any interest in teaching or helping students. I did get a letter from him last time. There is a new endo faculty member now but I never met them durimg my time in school. I emailed them and expressed my interest in applying this year. I could get a strong letter from a general dentist I work with, and the program director of the out reach clinic that I attended fourth year, but I am at a loss of getting an endo letter. I have also shadowed an endodontist, but he just out of residency so I dont think that will help. What should I do?

Good job being a go-getter and emailing the new endo faculty, hopefully you can build a relationship. You can also go to CE courses and get to know the instructors - that is what I did. I think schools know it may be tough for dentists in private practice to get letters.

 

[deleted721052]

Same; decided late i want to do endo and i’m in ny 4th year. I will be doing an aegd next year with a lot of endo. Should i try to do some research during that year? Would that improve my application?
Also, i got a pretty meh grade on my sim lab endo course. Could that hurt my chance?

 

[FutureDent020]

Same; decided late i want to do endo and i’m in ny 4th year. I will be doing an aegd next year with a lot of endo. Should i try to do some research during that year? Would that improve my application?
Also, i got a pretty meh grade on my sim lab endo course. Could that hurt my chance?

Wouldn’t worry about the research. Only do it if you are truly interested and want to do it. Research is extremely important in the specialty, but it’s not for everyone. They understand that. Majority of dental students suck at Endo lab. It’s both the student’s and curriculum’s fault. Don’t sweat that. Also understand that sure, you can get into programs right out of school or out of residency, but you have to look pretty damn good on paper to do it. Just keep doing Endo, keep learning about it, and working toward good recs.

 

[deleted721052]

Wouldn’t worry about the research. Only do it if you are truly interested and want to do it. Research is extremely important in the specialty, but it’s not for everyone. They understand that. Majority of dental students suck at Endo lab. It’s both the student’s and curriculum’s fault. Don’t sweat that. Also understand that sure, you can get into programs right out of school or out of residency, but you have to look pretty damn good on paper to do it. Just keep doing Endo, keep learning about it, and working toward good recs.

i’m planning to work 1 or 2 year post residency to gain some experience (and get some $) so that might help me. Also, good for the research part, i’d rather focus of the residency itself!
Thank you!

 

[Digitalangel]

Do you guys think attending the AAE would be of any help in terms of networking and talking to schools? Joining/attending would be close to $1500 and thats not including any flight/hotel or food.

 

[Torshammer]

Do you guys think attending the AAE would be of any help in terms of networking and talking to schools? Joining/attending would be close to $1500 and thats not including any flight/hotel or food.

I got the advice from a lot of people that it's necessary (and I went myself) but honestly, I think if you have been showing your interest in endo through other ways (CE courses, school activities, etc) it will not make a big difference. As for networking, I think for some people it is going to be more helpful to just show up and have a great interview. Sometimes the less you show your face is better because you risk making a bad impression. If your app is weak, I suppose you have to go though.

 

[Digitalangel]

I got the advice from a lot of people that it's necessary (and I went myself) but honestly, I think if you have been showing your interest in endo through other ways (CE courses, school activities, etc) it will not make a big difference. As for networking, I think for some people it is going to be more helpful to just show up and have a great interview. Sometimes the less you show your face is better because you risk making a bad impression. If your app is weak, I suppose you have to go though.

How did you go about finding schools/program directors to talk to? I feel like there is probably hundreds of people there that it might be difficult to find them? I don't know many people interested in endo so I would probably end up going alone as well

 

[anonymousdent]

How did you go about finding schools/program directors to talk to? I feel like there is probably hundreds of people there that it might be difficult to find them? I don't know many people interested in endo so I would probably end up going alone as well

like any good or truthful answer I would answer "It depends," but personally, I would go. Torshammer went last year and got into a program. it is impossible to know why exactly Torshammer got in but I would feel good about saying that it benefitted Torshammer's application. If you have a top 15-20% class rank, have research in endo, have strong letters from a program director or endodontist in your community It is probably overkill that you go I agree. Nashville is a fun city to visit and worse case scenario you spend $1500-$2000 to visit a cool city and have fun meeting like minded colleagues with similar interests as yourself.

as for how to meet directors its tough. they all know people are there doing what you're doing so they will be polite but try to be respectful of their time sign up for any lecture that a program director is giving or moderating and shake their hand/ talk to them after the lecture and let them know you're interested in applying. they're not going to remember you anyway but it's good practice for the next person you talk to, etc. just don't overstay your welcome. the most valuable component of attending is probably speaking with residents at their poster presentations anyway who will tell you a lot about the application process and their experience in a respective residency.

best of luck.

 

[jjdd]

Few dumb questions... I am setting up my adea PASS login. Is it to early to begin to fill out the different sections? Do I need to wait to add schools till closer to the next cycle? And lastly, where would you upload a personal statement? I do not see a specific section for a personal statement (I see experiences, achievements, additional info). Any insight helps!

 

[FutureDent020]

Few dumb questions... I am setting up my adea PASS login. Is it to early to begin to fill out the different sections? Do I need to wait to add schools till closer to the next cycle? And lastly, where would you upload a personal statement? I do not see a specific section for a personal statement (I see experiences, achievements, additional info). Any insight helps!

You’re definitely filling out the old May ‘19- Feb ‘20 app. New one isn’t a available. Not sure if it carries over information or not. Just review the old app and see what info you need to gather. Don’t start filling it out. You’ll be sitting and waiting a couple days for transcripts and recs anyways once it opens. Just as long as you get everything submitted first week of June you’ll be fine.

 

[jjdd]

You’re definitely filling out the old May ‘19- Feb ‘20 app. New one isn’t a available. Not sure if it carries over information or not. Just review the old app and see what info you need to gather. Don’t start filling it out. You’ll be sitting and waiting a couple days for transcripts and recs anyways once it opens. Just as long as you get everything submitted first week of June you’ll be fine.

Thanks for reply! Does the personal statement of 4,500 characters still apply for residency programs? I can't seem to locate any requirements for it on the PASS site.