Improving your stats, plan B, etc

[Haleyroze]

This type of thread has been posted many times, including one of my own. Yet, in the midst of panic I turn to the people who actually are/have gone through this vs. the vast array of people trying to give me advice that don't know anything about vet school, applying, etc. My situation is this:

3.2 gpa, but 3.0 science and last 45. high start and finish, but low soph and junior due to a chaotic work schedule that i was silly enough to continue (45 plus hours/week.) 1160 on gre, applied to three schools (still waiting) but am now facing the reality that I'm probably not going to get in until I can prove that I can do well in additional courses.

Was originally looking into a Davis masters, but the app for this is due Jan 15th and here I am and have been staring blankly at the application because I have never really had a true interest in research, beyond liking physiology and cannot, for obvious reasons come up with much to write for the essays.

Then there is the Colorado MS-B which sounds awesome, except for the websites faq's giving you the answer that there isn't any financial aid available for the 22,000 (I think) program.

All I want to do is take classes to show the admissions committees that I have what it takes! Why in the heck is that so complicated. So that puts me here. What to do? any ideas out there or advice?

ps: I hope not to offend anyone who has worked hard to get into a masters program with real interest, vs. my own of trying to improve my application.

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[variegata]

Do you have to get a masters to take more classes? Or would it be alright with you just to take additional courses but not for a degree. Most universities have summer classes that (after being offered to enrolled students) are open for everyone to take. My university also has an extension program for continuing education. Could you take some upper level classes there, get good grades and thus show you can handle the academics? Because I don't think it's worth going for a masters *just* to go get a DVM later. If you've got an interest in doing all the work to get a masters, then fine, but you don't sound sure. You sound like you just want to take some classes to get better grades, but are not necessarily committed to doing the research and X, Y and Z to go for that degree. Which makes me think that it would be an unnecessarily expensive way to improve your vet application.

My Plan B, for comparison purposes, would involve retaking the GRE (and actually studying this time), taking upper-level science classes this summer and possibly stopping my volunteer work at the shelter in lieu of an opportunity either at the zoo or with horses/large animals to broaden my experience. Summer classes and the GRE aren't cheap, but they're a lot cheaper than applying and going for another degree.

 

[lunajett]

I'm far from expert myself, but I can give you my thoughts based on the past few years I've been focusing on this goal. Yes, your grades and GRE do seem on the low end of what most schools would consider. But I wouldn't look at a Masters purely as a step to increase your GPA, and it seems like you're facing that problem as evidenced by the trouble in getting started on your essay. A Masters should be something you feel passionate about, and would be a good stand-alone accomplishment whether or not you get into vet school. Plus if you do get into a Masters program, that will probably delay your acceptance to vet school by at least a few years, as it seems most schools don't want to "poach" another school's current grad student. Not to mention the money you'd spend on something that isn't really your ultimate goal.

But obviously, it is exceedingly hard to improve an "average" GPA that has been built up over four years. I think your best bet would be to show that despite your average GPA, you are NOW capable of excelling. Do you have all the pre-reqs done for Davis, since that seems like your first choice? If not, take those and make sure you get A's. Look at the other schools you applied to, or could qualify for if you had a couple more classes, and take those classes and get A's. Maybe take some extra classes that aren't required, but that are related to the field and that you can do well in. Point is, you can take a lot of classes to prove yourself and improve your GPA, and they don't have to be part of any masters. But even a few A's probably won't bring up your overall GPA too much, but at least that way you're showing schools you can do the A work now.

The other big area you can improve is your GRE, and that should be alot easier then taking a couple more semesters of classes. Maybe pay for a hard-core prep class, or just buy a book and commit yourself to serious GRE prep. But if you can bump your GRE up to around at least 1300, you should have a much better shot, even if your GPA stays in the low-3's. Most schools seems to say one can help balance the other, so plan on improving that GRE to show you can make it.

Then look at all the other non-academic factors. Get as much experience and diverse experience as you can. Through that experience, build relationships with lots of vet who can write you LOR's and help guide you. It may take a couple years, but if this is really your life goal, a few years should be worth it.

 

[Haleyroze]

thank you so much for the reply. If I didn't know better, I'd think you knew me. Thats exactly how I feel, and just wasn't sure how the whole post-bacc thing worked. I've been lead to believe in the past that once you've completed your BS, there's no going back course wise. I really don't mind not getting another degree, and in fact am already in debt and would appreciate not sinking myself further before vet school. In addition, I didn't want to waste a professors time when they could have a student that was genuinely interested in their research. You've really helped me, I'm going to plan on contacting my university to see what is available for me.

 

[nyanko]

Well, you will definitely have to pay for any courses you take post-bac, and you won't get any financial aid if you are not degree-seeking, so that's something to consider.

I went back and got a second bachelors degree after I completed my first - it is very common for people to go back and declare themselves second degree-seeking even if they have no intention of finishing the degree, in order to be eligible for aid and also to get priority in scheduling courses.

 

[HopefulAg]

Heh, maybe look into an MBA? Won't help your Science GPA but might show them you can handle upper-level graduate work.

Other than that, perhaps a LVT program might help you out science GPA wise, and I would think it'd still allow you to apply next year, whereas working on a Master's degree in a science field you would not be able to due to research obligations.

 

[Haleyroze]

I graduated from san diego state university, which unfortunately does not allow second Bacc. degrees... sigh, the crashing element of it all does suck, but hopefully i'll be able to stick through it. Or perhaps a neighboring campus offers extended studies of sorts....

 

[cowgirla]

Heh, maybe look into an MBA? Won't help your Science GPA but might show them you can handle upper-level graduate work.

Other than that, perhaps a LVT program might help you out science GPA wise, and I would think it'd still allow you to apply next year, whereas working on a Master's degree in a science field you would not be able to due to research obligations.

Problem with LVT is that most of those (at least around here) are taken at community colleges, and vet schools tend to frown on community colleges beyond the basics. At least in my experience, anyway. Most I've seen also tend to be 2 years, but I'm not sure if one is "locked into" that program.

If I don't get in this year, I honestly don't know what I'll do. Like you, Haley, I have yet to find research/masters thesis topics that specifically interest me. Hence why I'm only working now, and not in a program somewhere.
I've thought about the CSU program, and would love to do it, but it seems like a lot of money, plus I'd have to move all the way across the country, just to make up and move again in less than a year. I've also thought about an MBA through the local university. I guess we'll see what the next few months bring.

 

[twelvetigers]

I'll be in a very similar situation this year if things don't work out for me, and I also have no interest in getting a masters. I'm starting to think that I'll just try for a bit more experience, retake the GRE AGAIN, and otherwise, try and get an 8-5 that will pay the bills or allow me to save up. My GPA is a collection of 140+ hours now, and nothing is going to change it. *shrug*

As for what you choose to do, my only advice is to be very cautious about starting something that you don't intend to finish (like an LVT or what-not).

 

[Pandacinny]

I got into school with a 3.22 GPA or so and I didn't go back and retake courses. It did take me 3 years to get in, though.

What is your experience like? For me, getting some more diverse experience REALLY helped. The first time I applied, I had pretty much a TON of shelter experience and a tiny bit of research, but that was it. The second year I applied, I sort of added a little more, but not much. For the third year, I got LOTS more and that's when I finally got in, too. I made sure to get as many different kinds as possible - small animal (a house call practice), a little equine (through a local rescue), emergency practice, and also work with a lab animal company. My interviewers seemed most impressed by the lab animal stuff - especially since I enjoyed it so much that I could talk about it without being too nervous and because I got some fairly unique experiences that way. If your experience is mostly in one area or with one person, look into diversifying it.

Another thing I would do is try to improve your GRE score. I know that can be really hard for some people, but try getting some study books or taking a course to boost it as high as possible. Also, if you had any mediocre LOR's (from advisers who barely knew you or anything like that), see about making the connections to replace them.

The best thing you can do is contact the schools you've been denied by and ask them for a review of your application. They'll tell you what you should focus on.

 

[HopefulAg]

My GPA is a collection of 140+ hours now, and nothing is going to change it. *shrug*

Well it won't drastically change, but I have a 140+ hour set as well and my GPA has gone up steadily from 3.3 --> 3.4 --> 3.45. Diminishing returns, sure, but in the 3.4 year I didn't get a single OOS interview where as in the 3.45 one (this one) I've gotten 3 so far.

 

[variegata]

I graduated from san diego state university, which unfortunately does not allow second Bacc. degrees... sigh, the crashing element of it all does suck, but hopefully i'll be able to stick through it. Or perhaps a neighboring campus offers extended studies of sorts....

Hey, you're just across town from me! I go to UCSD. Classes there are expensive (even moreso now that the idiots in charged raised fees even more), but it's a really good school for science. And if I'm not mistaken, at least a little thought goes into the difficulty of the university's program, so an A at a pretty high-tier school like UCSD would probably look pretty good (not trying to bash SDSU, I don't know anything about their program over there ).

 

[sumstorm]

Unless you want an LVT as a back up career, I wouldn't recommend this. besides the whole CC thing, the courses may well be below the difficulty of your previous courses, so even Acing them won't show adcoms that you can handle the curriculem you will face in vet school. I looked into our local one, thinking that I would 'pass out' of some courses. They did a combined biochem, chem, bio course (their description; the basics of all three in a one semester course) but wouldn't let me skip it with 1+ years of all of those. Huh? And that is not to put down the entire program or system...I believe some of their courses are much more challenging, but there could be issues there. Also, apparently some schools aren't as fond of LVT's because, as one adcom put it, 'they often think they know how to be a vet and aren't interested in learning' and another mentioned 'well-established bad habits are hard to unlearn.' Now, having said that, the same adcom committee admitted a couple, but I think in those cases those individuals had other reasons to go with the quicker, transferable degree (like moving with military alot.)

If there isn't research you are excited about, don't go for a research masters. There are non research (teaching) options, even in the sciences. Otherwise, do post bacs. If you aren't likely to ever qualify where you are at (I don't know Davis's numbers) consider relocating to a place where you can establish residency and you have a better opportunity to gain admissions. The other option that I had not heard of until this semester is to get a tech job at the teaching hospital so that you can make contacts and such. However, there is the risk of upsetting the wrong person and reducing your chances as well.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I graduated from san diego state university, which unfortunately does not allow second Bacc. degrees... sigh, the crashing element of it all does suck, but hopefully i'll be able to stick through it. Or perhaps a neighboring campus offers extended studies of sorts....

i know this will be even more expensive, but what about maybe looking into UCSD or the claremont colleges?

i'm not sure what the research job situation is in southern cali is, but if i were in your shoes this is what i would look into doing. i would look for a research tech job at one of the universities or a research hospital in the area, and at least in MA most of these jobs offer tuition assistance if you want to take some courses from extension courses nearby. maybe there'll be something similar where you are?

though given your stats and financial constraints, i think the cheapest way to really boost your chances is rocking the GRE's + diversifying your experiences. how many times have you already taken the GREs, and how hard did you study for it?

i'm not sure if you had a typo in your original post, but what was your last 45 gpa? you said it was a 3.0 but then said in the next sentence that you had a strong start and finish. If you do in fact have a high last 45 hr, then maybe taking a few more classes won't make much of a difference for the cGPA. Have you looked into how many A's you would need to get in order to boost your GPA (cGPA, science, and last 45) the amount you want?

 

[ColoradoDVM]

Then there is the Colorado MS-B which sounds awesome, except for the websites faq's giving you the answer that there isn't any financial aid available for the 22,000 (I think) program.

All I want to do is take classes to show the admissions committees that I have what it takes! Why in the heck is that so complicated. So that puts me here. What to do? any ideas out there or advice?

ps: I hope not to offend anyone who has worked hard to get into a masters program with real interest, vs. my own of trying to improve my application.

CSU doesn't really have financial aid but you can get loans.
If you need to take courses to improve your grades, might as well get a MS out of the deal. They want to see upper division success with a very full courseload. Additionally, on the CSU supplemental application, they ask you what your GPA is at your "primary " school. Since CSU would be the school where you are earning your most advanced degree to date, you could list that as your "primary" GPA and show the undergrad GPA elsewhere in your application and also calculate that in with your cum GPA. When I applied to my plan B program, I was honest about why I wanted to be there (to improve my GPA for professional school app) and I was accepted .

 

[twelvetigers]

Well it won't drastically change, but I have a 140+ hour set as well and my GPA has gone up steadily from 3.3 --> 3.4 --> 3.45. Diminishing returns, sure, but in the 3.4 year I didn't get a single OOS interview where as in the 3.45 one (this one) I've gotten 3 so far.

True, true. Anything I take after this spring will be post-bacc or second degree, though. Also, I'm not starting with a 3.3... my GPA has gone up at least 2.5 points from the first time I applied, so I do know that progress can be made. I just don't know how much difference it will make - I would need a couple of years to get my (overall) GPA up to a 3.5 or close while working. And getting new experience. So... I'm not sure if it's worth it, you know?

Man, I hope I just get in this year.

 

[LivestockDoc]

Man, I hope I just get in this year.

I'm rooting for ya TT!

 

[nyanko]

I think everyone is!!

 

[twelvetigers]

Fanks, guys.

Nyan, if YOU don't get in, we're marching into Davis with pitchforks and torches.

 

[Haleyroze]

Anyone heard anything about this?

http://online.sfsu.edu/~brothman/formal_program/summary.html

Im speaking of the AET program (academic enhancement), check it out.

found this while browsing online last night, sf is near my hometown so I would definitely consider moving. The only catch is that it is a 5 semester program, but with no degree...just a post bacc. However, you can apply during program unlike a masters... and no thesis, research etc. What do you guys think?

 

[HopefulAg]

Man, I hope I just get in this year.

I'll drink to that.

 

[cowgirla]

I'll drink to that.

Best idea I've heard all day!

 

[PM2009]

I did my undergrad work at CSU and just graduated (I finished a semester early). I thought about doing the Plan B Masters but I just couldn't justify the expense when I have no interest in it even though my undergraduate major was biomed. It's a great program with a lot of great professors (many I worked with in undergraduate) and it's only one year but I'd rather save the money for vet school tuition. Plus, I was just really over CSU at that point and ready to move home to Missouri.

Right now I don't really have a plan B sadly since I'm probably going to need one. I'm just working my hardest to find a full time job while I wait to hear about vet school.

 

[variegata]

I'll drink to that.

Count me in. I don't want to go through this again next year! I will, since this year's only my first try, but I just don't want to have to!

 

[twelvetigers]

I'll drink to that.

Do you have a private smiley stash? I'm a bit jeal.

 

[HopefulAg]

In a way; I just steal them from other forums I visit.


There's one in particular that I wish I could find as it'd be perfect for this forum, but alas the forum it was on removed it from their list I guess.

It was essentially a smiley face running around sporadically in a circle flailing its arms: the summation of this forum this time of year, IMO.



Bwahahhaha, found it through google!

It's not the exact same, but close enough.

 

[twelvetigers]

Oh, I see! Well, in that case, I like this one:

 

[sirbuckie]

Doing a post bacc program might be a bit expensive and unless you could afford it out of your pocket, it probably isn't the best idea to get into more debt before vet school. There are other ways to improve your application. I have a GPA of 3.28 and since I graduated with 257 units, it would take tons of classes to raise my cGPA. I wrote to Tufts asking them for advice and they were really helpful. Here's what they wrote:

Strong improvement over the course of your schooling is always highly looked upon. If finances are an issue* (I think they are for everyone these days!) then taking an internship would probably be the next best thing. The bottom line is that we want to see our applicants continuing to work toward their veterinary goals, whether that is by taking courses or increasing their experience. Certainly a retake of the GRE and doing even better will always help. High GRE scores can sometime help accommodate for a bit lower of a GPA. For other ways to improve your chances, I would encourage you to really show us who you are. If you have done community service work, held some unique jobs (animal or non-animal related), have a particular hobby, etc--we want to know these things. When it comes time to write your essays, be creative but concise. Try to market yourself so that after we read your application, we say, "we want her to be a part of our program!"

*I told her I couldn't take more classes due to lack of funds

Hope this helps!