In a bit of a unique situation

[hwehbe]

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So I finished with my undergraduate degree 2 years ago. I went from community college onto University (ASU), I graduated from ASU with a 3.6cGPA but because i performed poorly at community college, my GPA as calculated by medical schools came out to about 3.3 cGPA with a 3.2 sGPA (I have about 4 withdrawals in there). I was a pre-dental student at first so I took my DAT and scored a 22 (98.9th percentile), and after that I thought I was set and everything would be smooth sailing from there. I applied to 3 dental schools, got 1 interview, did not get accepted. So I decided to go for an SMP program. In my first semester of the SMP I had 4 classes, I did well in 3 of them but failed the 4th. I was perfectly capable of doing well in these classes as I am confident in my ability but I had a lot going on at the time, but the point is, I failed the class. At the same time this SMP semester is going on, I got invited to 3 dental school interviews I then withdrew from the SMP, hoping I get into one of these dental schools. Now its about 6 months later and I have not gotten an acceptance to any of these schools (I am still wait listed at two of these schools, so small chance there). So I am now studying for my MCAT and I have applied to a couple of Caribbean MD schools (ROSS, AUA and SGU). I have done a ton of research on Carib schools and I know they aren't as good as US MD or DO schools, but I feel now with my failed SMP class, this is my only option. Am I correct about this? I mean I know ROSS has a 85% match rate (I understand though that about half their students drop out before this point comes) so its not TOO bad, but I still feel as though I am taking a risk. I can't see myself in any other career other than something that is medicine related (doctor, dentist), I feel I need to do this because I am truly passionate about this stuff, I tried a couple different promising jobs in these last two years but I just feel as though I will never be happy unless I follow this dream. Any advice?

 

[NoPropsInHere]

Do you have to get accepted to a Carib school, or do you just pay and then go?

 

[ZedsDed]

So I finished with my undergraduate degree 2 years ago. I went from community college onto University (ASU), I graduated from ASU with a 3.6cGPA but because i performed poorly at community college, my GPA as calculated by medical schools came out to about 3.3 cGPA with a 3.2 sGPA (I have about 4 withdrawals in there). I was a pre-dental student at first so I took my DAT and scored a 22 (98.9th percentile), and after that I thought I was set and everything would be smooth sailing from there. I applied to 3 dental schools, got 1 interview, did not get accepted. So I decided to go for an SMP program. In my first semester of the SMP I had 4 classes, I did well in 3 of them but failed the 4th. I was perfectly capable of doing well in these classes as I am confident in my ability but I had a lot going on at the time, but the point is, I failed the class. At the same time this SMP semester is going on, I got invited to 3 dental school interviews I then withdrew from the SMP, hoping I get into one of these dental schools. Now its about 6 months later and I have not gotten an acceptance to any of these schools (I am still wait listed at two of these schools, so small chance there). So I am now studying for my MCAT and I have applied to a couple of Caribbean MD schools (ROSS, AUA and SGU). I have done a ton of research on Carib schools and I know they aren't as good as US MD or DO schools, but I feel now with my failed SMP class, this is my only option. Am I correct about this? I mean I know ROSS has a 85% match rate (I understand though that about half their students drop out before this point comes) so its not TOO bad, but I still feel as though I am taking a risk. I can't see myself in any other career other than something that is medicine related (doctor, dentist), I feel I need to do this because I am truly passionate about this stuff, I tried a couple different promising jobs in these last two years but I just feel as though I will never be happy unless I follow this dream. Any advice?

The failed class in the SMP might be the death blow. I can't ever recommend the Carribbean. I recommend applying to newer or lower tier DO schools. I hate to do this, but I have to point out that you were very competitive before the SMP. Your lack of success is probably due to you only applying to 3 schools. Before you do anything, you have to crush the MCAT, so start there.

 

[hwehbe]

The failed class in the SMP might be the death blow. I can't ever recommend the Carribbean. I recommend applying to newer or lower tier DO schools. I hate to do this, but I have to point out that you were very competitive before the SMP. Your lack of success is probably due to you only applying to 3 schools. Before you do anything, you have to crush the MCAT, so start there.

I know and it kills me to know that I really screwed up in the SMP. I hate myself for that, but it happened and I need to move on. I'm just trying to find the best way to go about it. With a solid score on the MCAT (which I know I can achieve because I had great success with the DAT and I know I have the ability to do well in anything related to bio/chem) do you think I will be competitive enough for a US DO school?

 

[ZedsDed]

I know and it kills me to know that I really screwed up in the SMP. I hate myself for that, but it happened and I need to move on. I'm just trying to find the best way to go about it. With a solid score on the MCAT (which I know I can achieve because I had great success with the DAT and I know I have the ability to do well in anything related to bio/chem) do you think I will be competitive enough for a US DO school?

Your situation is very unusual (high GPA/DAT don't usually fail SMPs), so honestly I don't know. All you can do is apply. Work on getting some killer ECs in the meantime.

Edit: just saw the 3.2 GPA. I guess the SMP was necessary. I reiterate, all you can do is apply.

 

[hwehbe]

Your situation is very unusual (high GPA/DAT don't usually fail SMPs), so honestly I don't know. All you can do is apply. Work on getting some killer ECs in the meantime

Yeah I know its very unique. I already have about 700+ hours of ECs with food banks and homeless shelters and such

 

[I'm On My Way Up]

In retrospect you should have applied more broadly. In any case, DO NOT prioritize Caribbean med schools over US DO schools. You will still be a doctor regardless. I'm not sure where you got that 85% from but I'm fairly certain the actual rates are lower than that (I could be wrong but read the Carib "horror stories" you can find right here on SDN). Don't let two letters after your name set you on a path full of debt and failed match attempts. Rock your MCAT and retake any failed (or C and below classes) for grade replacement - you'll want to bring that GPA up. Best of luck to you.

 

[ZedsDed]

Yeah I know its very unique. I already have about 700+ hours of ECs with food banks and homeless shelters and such

Please see the edit in my previous post. Low GPA + failed SMP is really not good. I doubt a high MCAT will make up for that, but I wouldn't dismiss your chances completely.

 

[hwehbe]

In retrospect you should have applied more broadly. In any case, DO NOT prioritize Caribbean med schools over US DO schools. You will still be a doctor regardless. I'm not sure where you got that 85% from but I'm fairly certain the actual rates are lower than that (I could be wrong but read the Carib "horror stories" you can find right here on SDN). Don't let two letters after your name set you on a path full of debt and failed match attempts. Rock your MCAT and retake any failed (or C and below classes) for grade replacement - you'll want to bring that GPA up. Best of luck to you.

Thank you I appreciate the advice. ROSS university reports that in 2014 85% of graduated students were matched into residencies. That's where I got that from.

 

[ZedsDed]

[QUOTE="I'm On My Way Up, post: 16595212, member: 578059]Rock your MCAT and retake any failed (or C and below classes) for grade replacement - you'll want to bring that GPA up. Best of luck to you.[/QUOTE]
this. Can't believe I didn't mention this, grade replacement (coupled with a high MCAT) could be your salvation. Perhaps @Goro could offer his expertise.

 

[ZedsDed]

Thank you I appreciate the advice. ROSS university reports that in 2014 85% of graduated students were matched into residencies. That's where I got that from.

I call BS. I am not surprised in the least that Ross would lie. As far as I know, the match rate is around 50%

 

[missmd123]

Wait so why are you all of a sudden applying to med schools? What happened to dentistry? Did your passion suddenly change or are you just exhausting all of your options?

I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just curious.

 

[Vivalarevolution]

So I finished with my undergraduate degree 2 years ago. I went from community college onto University (ASU), I graduated from ASU with a 3.6cGPA but because i performed poorly at community college, my GPA as calculated by medical schools came out to about 3.3 cGPA with a 3.2 sGPA (I have about 4 withdrawals in there). I was a pre-dental student at first so I took my DAT and scored a 22 (98.9th percentile), and after that I thought I was set and everything would be smooth sailing from there. I applied to 3 dental schools, got 1 interview, did not get accepted. So I decided to go for an SMP program. In my first semester of the SMP I had 4 classes, I did well in 3 of them but failed the 4th. I was perfectly capable of doing well in these classes as I am confident in my ability but I had a lot going on at the time, but the point is, I failed the class. At the same time this SMP semester is going on, I got invited to 3 dental school interviews I then withdrew from the SMP, hoping I get into one of these dental schools. Now its about 6 months later and I have not gotten an acceptance to any of these schools (I am still wait listed at two of these schools, so small chance there). So I am now studying for my MCAT and I have applied to a couple of Caribbean MD schools (ROSS, AUA and SGU). I have done a ton of research on Carib schools and I know they aren't as good as US MD or DO schools, but I feel now with my failed SMP class, this is my only option. Am I correct about this? I mean I know ROSS has a 85% match rate (I understand though that about half their students drop out before this point comes) so its not TOO bad, but I still feel as though I am taking a risk. I can't see myself in any other career other than something that is medicine related (doctor, dentist), I feel I need to do this because I am truly passionate about this stuff, I tried a couple different promising jobs in these last two years but I just feel as though I will never be happy unless I follow this dream. Any advice?

Why the sudden switch from dentistry to med school?

 

[hwehbe]

Wait so why are you all of a sudden applying to med schools? What happened to dentistry? Did your passion suddenly change or are you just exhausting all of your options?

I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just curious.

After a lot of thinking I decided to change paths, I don't want that to be the main point of this thread though, so thats all im going to say

 

[missmd123]

After a lot of thinking I decided to change paths, I don't want that to be the main point of this thread though, so thats all im going to say

Well... okay then...

 

[Goro]

Seriously, do some searching on SDN and look at what the residents and physicians say about Carib schools. Ross is outright LYING to you.

If you wish to be unemployed and deeply in debt, then the Carib diploma mills are for you. You are exactly the high risk, gullible, desperate, poor-choice making student that they prey on.

Your inability to handle the SMP, which is no where near as difficult as medical school, demonstrates that you lack good coping skills and are at risk for having trouble in medical school. Ross would love you because you'd fail out and they'd keep your money.

You've been warned.

So I am now studying for my MCAT and I have applied to a couple of Caribbean MD schools (ROSS, AUA and SGU). I have done a ton of research on Carib schools and I know they aren't as good as US MD or DO schools, but I feel now with my failed SMP class, this is my only option. Am I correct about this? I mean I know ROSS has a 85% match rate (I understand though that about half their students drop out before this point comes) so its not TOO bad, but I still feel as though I am taking a risk. I can't see myself in any other career other than something that is medicine related (doctor, dentist), I feel I need to do this because I am truly passionate about this stuff, I tried a couple different promising jobs in these last two years but I just feel as though I will never be happy unless I follow this dream. Any advice?[/QUOTE]

 

[ZedsDed]

Seriously, do some searching on SDN and look at what the residents and physicians say about Carib schools. Ross is outright LYING to you.

If you wish to be unemployed and deeply in debt, then the Carib diploma mills are for you. You are exactly the high risk, gullible, desperate, poor-choice making student that they prey on.

Your inability to handle the SMP, which is no where near as difficult as medical school, demonstrates that you lack good coping skills and are at risk for having trouble in medical school. Ross would love you because you'd fail out and they'd keep your money.

You've been warned.

So I am now studying for my MCAT and I have applied to a couple of Caribbean MD schools (ROSS, AUA and SGU). I have done a ton of research on Carib schools and I know they aren't as good as US MD or DO schools, but I feel now with my failed SMP class, this is my only option. Am I correct about this? I mean I know ROSS has a 85% match rate (I understand though that about half their students drop out before this point comes) so its not TOO bad, but I still feel as though I am taking a risk. I can't see myself in any other career other than something that is medicine related (doctor, dentist), I feel I need to do this because I am truly passionate about this stuff, I tried a couple different promising jobs in these last two years but I just feel as though I will never be happy unless I follow this dream. Any advice?

[/QUOTE]
What would you suggest OP do then?

 

[mathnerd88]

So I finished with my undergraduate degree 2 years ago. I went from community college onto University (ASU), I graduated from ASU with a 3.6cGPA but because i performed poorly at community college, my GPA as calculated by medical schools came out to about 3.3 cGPA with a 3.2 sGPA (I have about 4 withdrawals in there). I was a pre-dental student at first so I took my DAT and scored a 22 (98.9th percentile), and after that I thought I was set and everything would be smooth sailing from there. I applied to 3 dental schools, got 1 interview, did not get accepted. So I decided to go for an SMP program. In my first semester of the SMP I had 4 classes, I did well in 3 of them but failed the 4th. I was perfectly capable of doing well in these classes as I am confident in my ability but I had a lot going on at the time, but the point is, I failed the class. At the same time this SMP semester is going on, I got invited to 3 dental school interviews I then withdrew from the SMP, hoping I get into one of these dental schools. Now its about 6 months later and I have not gotten an acceptance to any of these schools (I am still wait listed at two of these schools, so small chance there). So I am now studying for my MCAT and I have applied to a couple of Caribbean MD schools (ROSS, AUA and SGU). I have done a ton of research on Carib schools and I know they aren't as good as US MD or DO schools, but I feel now with my failed SMP class, this is my only option. Am I correct about this? I mean I know ROSS has a 85% match rate (I understand though that about half their students drop out before this point comes) so its not TOO bad, but I still feel as though I am taking a risk. I can't see myself in any other career other than something that is medicine related (doctor, dentist), I feel I need to do this because I am truly passionate about this stuff, I tried a couple different promising jobs in these last two years but I just feel as though I will never be happy unless I follow this dream. Any advice?

You have a huge problem, even for medical schools. You'll need to retake that failed class first of all to recoup that GPA. Then, you're going to need to explain to all your adcoms why you withdrew from the SMP, and I have no idea what kind of excuse you can come up with that won't make them worry about your future in medicine.

You cannot even mention anything about dentistry because they'll think you're wishy washy with your life and don't seem to commit to anything.

To start going back to medicine, you're going to need to take at least a couple of years off to show that you are truly interested in medicine (volunteering in hospital, clinical experience, etc) while retaking your failed classes to boost your GPA. Even with your GPA before SMP, you don't have a high chance of being accepted unless you score high on the MCAT. DAT and MCAT are completely different and I find the DAT easier and less analytical than the MCAT.

 

[Goro]

I cannot recommend a career in medicine for OP.


What would you suggest OP do then?

 

[Holmwood]

Thank you I appreciate the advice. ROSS university reports that in 2014 85% of graduated students were matched into residencies. That's where I got that from.

It's misleading. They first wean out people who can't finish their comp exam, leading to high attrition rates. Those who survive have a... 85% graduation rate? So their best students have an 85% graduation rate vs the 90+ you see in standard MD schools?

You have to be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into. Not only the success stories, but also the horror stories.

 

[ZedsDed]

It's misleading. They first wean out people who can't finish their comp exam, leading to high attrition rates. Those who survive have a... 85% graduation rate? So their best students have an 85% graduation rate vs the 90+ you see in standard MD schools?

You have to be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into. Not only the success stories, but also the horror stories.

More like 99.x% for MD and DO schools

 

[charlie517]

Well... okay then...

🙂 You literally asked everything I was wondering and responded as I was thinking with your posts XD

@hwehbe If you cant apply NEXT cycle EARLY (because by the time you finish your app this time around it may be too late with your situation) with a great PS that shows a good motive for going from dentistry -> medicine that can have adcoms not even remember that you got rejected from all dental schools (by that time that would be the case if you still go through with it...but rooting for ya), solid ECs in medicine & shadowing to supplement your community service, try to increase your GPA if possible, address the SMP failed class, AND apply broadly (MD AND DO)...I am sure you can get into a med school. Seems like a lot, but if it's what you are really passionate about it should be cake! If you want it, it may take a while and a long road to get there, but you should be able to become an MD.

Good Luck

Edit: AND Strong MCAT...can't forget that 😉

 

[ZedsDed]

@DrMidlife Do you have any advice for what direction OP can go in from here? Even if it is away from medicine? Maybe there are other options in healthcare. This seems like an awful predicament OP is in...

 

[DrMidlife]

"i can't imagine doing something other than med/dent" is a lack of imagination and possibly a lack of effort. go wait tables or work retail. travel. talk to people. see what kinds of people there are. ask what kinds of jobs people have. FIND OUT WHAT YOUR TALENTS ARE when your parents are not around to tell you. See who you are after you've spent a bunch of time around new people you like being around. move to a new town. give up gaming/texting/click-baiting for six months. get really uncomfortable doing unfamiliar things and see what happens.

after doing substantial damage to your chances of going to med/dent school the normal way, it's entirely unreasonable to look at a med/dent career as just a career choice. it's pure vanity to pursue the most expensive, difficult, time consuming and soul-sucking job training when you don't have a lifetime of built momentum to draw upon.

ten years from now you could be a doctor/dentist, starting your career, starting to pay your loans back, hopefully in a job you don't hate after all that effort. or you could have ten years collecting paychecks by doing something else, and you could be taking advantage of the relative freedom of not being in no/low pay job training for a decade, and create your own accomplishments instead of squeezing yourself like play-dough through a very confining template.

or go to the carib and see how it goes. maybe that path and those accomplishments and those new people will be unbelievable and amazing.

or fight your way back onto the normal path to US training. maybe it'll work this time. maybe you'll find out what you're made of, vs unlocking the secrets to becoming a multiple choice exam point scoring machine.

fun fact: most of the people you ever work with won't be cool or inspiring or fun, and no job will turn you into a safely respectable mostly-do-gooder.

there are a lot of unimaginative ways to get that house+car+spouse+children. pick one of the less excruciating paths to those unimaginative goals, if those are your actual honest goals.

you're fine. everybody does their best. you don't have to do things the hard way. one of the happiest people i ever met spent six months of each year surfing, and the other six months skiing, doing whatever jobs allowed him to live that life. (that's imagination. that's self-awareness.)

best of luck to you.

 

[doc05]

this is not a "unique situation." as several other posters have mentioned, it is not clear in the least why you have changed your mind from "pre-dental" to "pre-med." More importantly, med school admission is more competitive, so I have no idea why you think you'll get in when you were unsuccessful in applying to dental school.

Your chances for med school are very very slim, and the carribean route is unwise, as others have mentioned.

My best advice - take some time for serious introspection, and decide for yourself what you actually want to do with your life. You do not need to go into healthcare to be happy. Keep in mind that, in recent surveys, over half of practicing physicians would not go into medicine again; take this as a hint and find something else.

 

[hwehbe]

"i can't imagine doing something other than med/dent" is a lack of imagination and possibly a lack of effort. go wait tables or work retail. travel. talk to people. see what kinds of people there are. ask what kinds of jobs people have. FIND OUT WHAT YOUR TALENTS ARE when your parents are not around to tell you. See who you are after you've spent a bunch of time around new people you like being around. move to a new town. give up gaming/texting/click-baiting for six months. get really uncomfortable doing unfamiliar things and see what happens.

after doing substantial damage to your chances of going to med/dent school the normal way, it's entirely unreasonable to look at a med/dent career as just a career choice. it's pure vanity to pursue the most expensive, difficult, time consuming and soul-sucking job training when you don't have a lifetime of built momentum to draw upon.

ten years from now you could be a doctor/dentist, starting your career, starting to pay your loans back, hopefully in a job you don't hate after all that effort. or you could have ten years collecting paychecks by doing something else, and you could be taking advantage of the relative freedom of not being in no/low pay job training for a decade, and create your own accomplishments instead of squeezing yourself like play-dough through a very confining template.

or go to the carib and see how it goes. maybe that path and those accomplishments and those new people will be unbelievable and amazing.

or fight your way back onto the normal path to US training. maybe it'll work this time. maybe you'll find out what you're made of, vs unlocking the secrets to becoming a multiple choice exam point scoring machine.

fun fact: most of the people you ever work with won't be cool or inspiring or fun, and no job will turn you into a safely respectable mostly-do-gooder.

there are a lot of unimaginative ways to get that house+car+spouse+children. pick one of the less excruciating paths to those unimaginative goals, if those are your actual honest goals.

you're fine. everybody does their best. you don't have to do things the hard way. one of the happiest people i ever met spent six months of each year surfing, and the other six months skiing, doing whatever jobs allowed him to live that life. (that's imagination. that's self-awareness.)

best of luck to you.

Honestly that is some of the best advice I've ever gotten. Thanks