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[nmed44]

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Hello, I am a 24-year old recent MPH graduate. I have been thinking med school for most of my life, and just a couple days ago got hit with the fact of having to wait 2 years to go to med school if I apply next summer, for fall '11.

Here is my situation and I thank you for your informed opinions:

I am strongly contemplating applying for Fall '10, which means getting on track ASAP. I have not taken a Kaplan prep course, and have not taken the MCAT as of yet. I am thinking (and need to make the decision by tomorrow) of taking an MCAT prep course, which starts now until Aug 25th, taking the MCAT Sept 10th, and while studying, completing primary apps (having them in by July 31st).

My credentials are as follows: 3.2 GPA undergrad (mix of A-C's in pre med), 3.5+ in grad school, multiple research and public health internships, and would have strong recommendations since most profs I worked with are on the admissions committee at the med school I did grad work at.

Is it too late to begin this process? I know that I want a strong application, and would LOVE to only apply once...BUT waiting until next summer to apply for Fall '11 and then potentially not getting in, and having to apply for Fall '12 is not exactly what my plan was.

Opinions please. Thanks so much.

 

[Stratego]

With a 3.2 cGPA, you'd need an MCAT score of about 35 to balance that. You did not mention your BCPM GPA, but if it is too low, you still might not be considered. Sadly, your MPH GPA will not help you as it is the undergrad GPA and MCAT, then ECs, by which you are judged by med school adcomms. If you had a great application, it is not impossible to get an acceptance applying late in the cycle, but it is much less likely. Provided you can get an MCAT of 30 or better, you'd be a good candidate for an SMP, which is a last ditch effort to redeem a low GPA (see SDN's Postbaccalaureate Forum for information). If you can get a 35 or better, it would be worth applying this cycle to see what happens, but I'd also apply to SMPs as a backup plan. Have you done any practice tests to see what ballpark you might be in?

Alternatively, you might apply to DO schools, where I believe you'd be reasonably competitive with an MCAT score of 28 or so, providing your science GPA isn't too low.

 

[nmed44]

Hello,Thanks for your opinion. What is your experience with med school admissions? Are you a med student currently?

I have not yet calculated my science GPA, I've taken a couple practice tests that Kaplan puts out and scored low b/c I have not yet studied any of the concepts/material that I learned 5-6 yrs ago. I know this will take a while. In terms of post bac programs, I think my qualifications outside the classroom and if I get a good MCAT score will balance those grades from beginning of undergrad. I've also heard that med schools don't want to see that you've retaken all of the science courses..

 

[camaras2480]

Hello,Thanks for your opinion. What is your experience with med school admissions? Are you a med student currently?

Stratego is an informed member of SDN. That is where it stands. You are free to accept his/her advice, or ignore it.

As another fellow informed member of SDN, I completely second what Stratego said in the post. You should be applying to SMP this year for sure, no matter what you are doing otherwise. It should be your fall back plan. You are really running late for those programs, so I would start calling them up tomorrow.

Then, remember that a majority of schools wont accept MCATs taken around September or later. You would have to look into that as well and prepare accordingly.

So basically, apply as you wish, but you will be hard put to get in for 2010, if your goal is allopathic.

Again, as Stratego said, you could consider DO school as an alternative.

 

[Left4Med]

Hello, I am a 24-year old recent MPH graduate. I have been thinking med school for most of my life, and just a couple days ago got hit with the fact of having to wait 2 years to go to med school if I apply next summer, for fall '11.

Here is my situation and I thank you for your informed opinions:

I am strongly contemplating applying for Fall '10, which means getting on track ASAP. I have not taken a Kaplan prep course, and have not taken the MCAT as of yet. I am thinking (and need to make the decision by tomorrow) of taking an MCAT prep course, which starts now until Aug 25th, taking the MCAT Sept 10th, and while studying, completing primary apps (having them in by July 31st).

My credentials are as follows: 3.2 GPA undergrad (mix of A-C's in pre med), 3.5+ in grad school, multiple research and public health internships, and would have strong recommendations since most profs I worked with are on the admissions committee at the med school I did grad work at.

Is it too late to begin this process? I know that I want a strong application, and would LOVE to only apply once...BUT waiting until next summer to apply for Fall '11 and then potentially not getting in, and having to apply for Fall '12 is not exactly what my plan was.

Opinions please. Thanks so much.

Hey nmed,

I think your overall GPA is ok, but your application won't be competitive enough for some of the top MD schools unless you have some outstanding extracurriculars and LORs.

Your biggest concern should be your late MCAT date since you won't receive your score until October. At that point, it may be difficult to get interviews as easily as it would have been if you had completed your application in June or July.

I think it would benefit you to take the time to prepare for the MCAT well and polish your personal statement instead of rushing everything out as soon as possible. If you're concerned that you'll be wasting a year while waiting for the opportunity to apply for the class of 2011, you should ask people familiar with the application process (e.g. the advisor at your undergraduate school) what aspect of your application needs the most improvement and spend the upcoming academic year addressing that need. I know it seems disappointing to have to sit it out this cycle, but take it from someone who was pretty much in your shoes just two years ago, that year will go by REALLY fast.

Good luck!

 

[camaras2480]

Hey nmed,

I think your overall GPA is ok, but your application won't be competitive enough for some of the top MD schools unless you have some outstanding extracurriculars and LORs.

I don't think you should spend money applying to top MD schools anyway, unless you get a 40 on the MCAT.

Your biggest concern should be your late MCAT date since you won't receive your score until October. At that point, it may be difficult to get interviews as easily as it would have been if you had completed your application in June or July.

I think it would benefit you to take the time to prepare for the MCAT well and polish your personal statement instead of rushing everything out as soon as possible. If you're concerned that you'll be wasting a year while waiting for the opportunity to apply for the class of 2011, you should ask people familiar with the application process (e.g. the advisor at your undergraduate school) what aspect of your application needs the most improvement and spend the upcoming academic year addressing that need. I know it seems disappointing to have to sit it out this cycle, but take it from someone who was pretty much in your shoes just two years ago, that year will go by REALLY fast.

OP, you are probably getting the general idea now. Wait for the next cycle, because you will inevitably be a stronger candidate next summer. You don't want to blow your first application just as a shot of desperation.

 

[Left4Med]

With a 3.2 cGPA, you'd need an MCAT score of about 35 to balance that. You did not mention your BCPM GPA, but if it is too low, you still might not be considered. Sadly, your MPH GPA will not help you as it is the undergrad GPA and MCAT, then ECs, by which you are judged by med school adcomms. If you had a great application, it is not impossible to get an acceptance applying late in the cycle, but it is much less likely. Provided you can get an MCAT of 30 or better, you'd be a good candidate for an SMP, which is a last ditch effort to redeem a low GPA (see SDN's Postbaccalaureate Forum for information). If you can get a 35 or better, it would be worth applying this cycle to see what happens, but I'd also apply to SMPs as a backup plan. Have you done any practice tests to see what ballpark you might be in?

Alternatively, you might apply to DO schools, where I believe you'd be reasonably competitive with an MCAT score of 28 or so, providing your science GPA isn't too low.

Stratego, would you still recommend the SMP if the OP has already completed an MPH? I doubt another 3.5+ performance at an SMP would further improve his/her application in the eyes of an adcom.

The OPs undergrad GPA is on the low end but I don't think it would exclude him/her from getting into an MD program if he/she has some good ECs along with the improved GPA from the MPH program.

I definitely do agree with the DO schools suggestion if that is something the OP is willing to do (i.e. OP doesn't look down on the DO degree like some other recent posters on SDN).

 

[Left4Med]

I don't think you should spend money applying to top MD schools anyway, unless you get a 40 on the MCAT.

From personal experience, I can say that that isn't necessarily true. It all depends on your application as a whole. But the point for the OP is, if you have a low undergrad GPA, you have to really stand out in some other fashion. That is why I'm recommending that he or she takes the time to improve this year.

 

[camaras2480]

Stratego, would you still recommend the SMP if the OP has already completed an MPH? I doubt another 3.5+ performance at an SMP would further improve his/her application in the eyes of an adcom.

Of course, I'm not Stratego but I'll respond anyway 🙂

An MPH, in all honesty, in most cases, do not help you get into med school. An SMP is a whole new ball game. A 3.5+ performance in an SMP will carry much more weight than a 3.5+ in an MPH. Not to slam the MPH curriculum, but it is in general, in the eyes of adcoms, no match for that of an SMP.

 

[camaras2480]

From personal experience, I can say that that isn't necessarily true. It all depends on your application as a whole. But the point for the OP is, if you have a low undergrad GPA, you have to really stand out in some other fashion. That is why I'm recommending that he or she takes the time to improve this year.

Not necessarily true, but in large part, it is. Not because the candidates are inadequate, because the schools are number ******. Almost every top ranking school will cringe at the idea of accepting a 3.2 undergrad. God forbid these students drop their ranking by one. Sad, but true.

Left4Med, you, yourself are a nice success story, assuming you are the same candidate as OP, for all intents and purposes. Just know that it is not often that 3.2s get into top tier schools, regardless of the overall package, and especially without a stellar MCAT.

 

[Stratego]

Stratego, would you still recommend the SMP if the OP has already completed an MPH? I doubt another 3.5+ performance at an SMP would further improve his/her application in the eyes of an adcom.

I agree with camaras answer. The reson this is true of an MPH is that is is not a hard science-intense degree, and so does little to reassure adcomms that one would do well in a med school environment. An SMP is all hard science and in many cases one is competing with med students for good grades. Thus if one does well, it is very likely one will excel in med school.

What is your experience with med school admissions? Are you a med student currently?

I'll be attending med school starting mid August. Besides my own experience and that of my friends (and the collective wisdom found on SDN), I am lucky to have two family friends who are adcomms from whom I can get additional perspectives.

 

[Left4Med]

Of course, I'm not Stratego but I'll respond anyway 🙂

An MPH, in all honesty, in most cases, do not help you get into med school. An SMP is a whole new ball game. A 3.5+ performance in an SMP will carry much more weight than a 3.5+ in an MPH. Not to slam the MPH curriculum, but it is in general, in the eyes of adcoms, no match for that of an SMP.

That's fine, I just wasn't familiar with the weight that either one of these programs carries with a typical adcom. My other concern would be the debt that the OP would be accumulating by pursuing an SMP on top of an MPH and undergrad.

Not necessarily true, but in large part, it is. Not because the candidates are inadequate, because the schools are number ******. Almost every top ranking school will cringe at the idea of accepting a 3.2 undergrad. God forbid these students drop their ranking by one. Sad, but true.

Left4Med, you, yourself are a nice success story, assuming you are the same candidate as OP, for all intents and purposes. Just know that it is not often that 3.2s get into top tier schools, regardless of the overall package, and especially without a stellar MCAT.

Well, I did mention that you needed to make your application stand out in other sections. I have a Ph.D. (hence the name 🙂), scored a 15 on the Biological Sciences section, and have a good list of ECs, all of which more than made up for a so-so undergrad GPA. However, I don't think the OP has to go to those lengths to get into an MD program.

The stats the OP listed aren't overwhelming, but I know quite a few medical students whose uGPAs and MCATs would be considered subpar by the SDN community (and, no they weren't URMs).

I mentioned being in the OP's shoes because, like the OP, I started considering applying to medical school at a point when I couldn't get my application out in a reasonable time. At that point I thought that I would be wasting a year, but it definitely helped me improve my application. Not only that, but the time does fly by. There will always be another incoming class, so there's no rush.🙂

 

[camaras2480]

Well, I did mention that you needed to make your application stand out in other sections. I have a Ph.D. (hence the name 🙂), scored a 15 on the Biological Sciences section, and have a good list of ECs, all of which more than made up for a so-so undergrad GPA. However, I don't think the OP has to go to those lengths to get into an MD program.

The stats the OP listed aren't overwhelming, but I know quite a few medical students whose uGPAs and MCATs would be considered subpar by the SDN community (and, no they weren't URMs).

I mentioned being in the OP's shoes because, like the OP, I started considering applying to medical school at a point when I couldn't get my application out in a reasonable time. At that point I thought that I would be wasting a year, but it definitely helped me improve my application. Not only that, but the time does fly by. There will always be another incoming class, so there's no rush.🙂

lol congrats on the PhD MD status, very good stuff. And yes, OP certainly does not need a PhD to get in lol. But everything else really should be as close to what you have mentioned as possible.

Hey OP, check out that bold line 🙂

 

[nmed44]

thanks everyone who commented. appreciate your advice. I've made the decision NOT to apply for Fall 2010.

The idea of sitting down with my resume and looking over it to fill in gaps in experience is a great piece of advice. Additionally, I have a couple questions though:

What is LORs? and who was OP? This is my first time on SDN, so please forgive.

Finally, I feel that after completing an MPH I REALLY do not have to pursue the post-bac or any of the 1st year med school programs (blanking on their names).

I honestly think I have a good shot from connections at my grad school, and will have two years of work/volunteer experience under my belt.

Thoughts?

 

[camaras2480]

thanks everyone who commented. appreciate your advice. I've made the decision NOT to apply for Fall 2010.

The idea of sitting down with my resume and looking over it to fill in gaps in experience is a great piece of advice. Additionally, I have a couple questions though:

What is LORs? and who was OP? This is my first time on SDN, so please forgive.

Finally, I feel that after completing an MPH I REALLY do not have to pursue the post-bac or any of the 1st year med school programs (blanking on their names).

I honestly think I have a good shot from connections at my grad school, and will have two years of work/volunteer experience under my belt.

Thoughts?

We are glad to help!

LORs = letters of recommendation.
OP is you! Original poster 🙂

Regarding your last comment - I would call admissions offices and present your case, and hear it from them yourselves. They will guide you the best.

Good luck!

 

[Left4Med]

lol congrats on the PhD MD status, very good stuff.

Thanks! It wasn't so good while I was applying since I had to defend my thesis right before my first interviews (I actually had to postpone a few that were pre-assigned by adcoms)🙁

thanks everyone who commented. appreciate your advice. I've made the decision NOT to apply for Fall 2010.

The idea of sitting down with my resume and looking over it to fill in gaps in experience is a great piece of advice.

I honestly think I have a good shot from connections at my grad school, and will have two years of work/volunteer experience under my belt.

Thoughts?

Great! I'm glad you took our advice. Just make sure to start planning out your year as soon as possible (speaking with your undergrad pre-med advisor (if possible), applying for health-related or research volunteer positions/jobs if necessary, studying for the MCAT, etc.)

Good luck!