In Need of Some ReApp Wisdom

[DarwinDoc]

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So reapplication is becoming more and more probable and I could use some sincere advice...

I'm on one waitlist and I'm still waiting to hear from my state school post-interview.

My stats:
2006 graduate of a "public ivy" undergrad
April 2005 MCAT 29Q (8PS, 11VR, 10BS)
Overall GPA: 3.49 (upward trend 3.1, 3.2, 3.6, 3.9)
BCPM: 3.45 (upward trend 3.2, 3.2, 3.7, 3.9)

ECs:
D1 Varsity Athlete
Sporadic volunteering/tutoring when I could
1 Year UG research
Summer Research at Harvard-affiliated Lab
Currently working full-time as a CNA at a children's hospital (however, started after AMCAS and most secondaries were submitted)

I realize now that I applied a little late (complete first week of Sept.) and not broad enough (10 schools, mostly top 50's)

I'm wondering what I can do to get an allo acceptance if I have to reapply.
Do I...
Retake MCAT?
Do an SMP or Post-Bacc?
Or just work and shadow some more and apply earlier and more broadly with revamped personal statement, essays, and LOR?

I'd prefer not to retake the MCAT again seeing as I'm now a year out of school and don't have much time to prep.

Would an SMP or post-bacc be worth it if I wouldn't even have any grades until Dec/ Jan?

Any help would be great! I'm totally stressing... I didn't think I'd be in this position.
Thanks

 

[Malla]

You can see my stats on my MDapp profile. I didn't do that hot. I went to a mediocre UG and didn't do fantastic. I got in! This was my third try. I really didn't give it a good effort

I think the thing that you need to do is diversify your application. My good friend that is doing her intern year now went through and helped me pick schools to apply to. I did it by picking cities I knew I would be comfortable in. Then I picked top, middle, and lower tier schools in each area. Shoot for 15-20 schools. It seems like right around average. You don't have to send in secondaries for all of them, but keep your options open.

Then, make sure you apply early. I wasn't complete until December at most schools. I was waiting on a letter of rec. Very stupid in hindsight. My AMCAS was complete in early September. Had I gotten my secondaries in ASAP, I would have gotten many more interviews and possibly more acceptances.

I didn't get into a top 10 school, but I got in. This year the difference was that I decided that becoming a doctor was more important than where I went to school, and as a result, I'm on my way.

It seems that you have all the pieces. Remember, you can always send an update letter saying that you've been doing CNA work and you've got some really great clinical experience to add to your experiences that you didn't have at the time of the AMCAS or secondary. Update letters not only help you by telling them the new things that are going on that make you a better candidate, but they also show your interest in their school. Check out the pre-allo forum if you haven't already. There's tons of great advice in there!

 

[shadpuff]

I agree with Malla. Your stats look pretty good. MCAT doesn't look like it needs to be retaken, although the 8 probably is a weak point. I got accepted the third time around (there was a post up on this re applicant forum and lots of people posted how they improved their applications so I might suggest you read that).

The key points would be to apply early, get some really good letters of recommendation, and focus on the diversity of the application. Don't point out why your grades were low or why the PS is an 8. If they ask then you can explain things. Focus on making your application stick out from the rest of the crowd and why you want to be a doctor.

I don't think you need to join any post-bacc programs, just work on more shadowing, volunteering, or anything health related. The more you show interest in medicine the more it helps.

 

[MrTee]

The best way to improve your app is to improve your mcat. Your grades seem to be in an okay range, so taking more classes probably wouldn't be the best use of your time. If you're really adamant about not retaking the mcat, you can just apply as early as possible to a bunch of schools with low avg gpa/mcat next cycle, and hope for the best.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

I think an improvement of 3-5 point on the MCAT would substantially improve your competitiveness.

Also the advice about applying early & broadly is right on.

 

[DarwinDoc]

thanks for all the advice guys i appreciate it.

just the thought of having to retake the MCAT makes me sick, especially since i haven't taken chemistry for 3 years. but if that's what it's gonna take, then i just gotta do it.

what do you guys think about this plan...

1. apply to some SMP's now while i await final decisions from my remaining 2 schools

2. assuming imminent rejections come april/may, focus a majority of my energy on studying for the MCATs to be taken as soon as i feel ready (july/august)

3. meanwhile, whatever i have left in me will be devoted to applying early and broadly to more than just 10 top-50 med schools

note: the only reason i feel i might want to do the SMP thing is because i really wanna get back into an academic setting and taking med school classes intrigues me...also i guess it would be good to show adcoms i can handle it and might give me an edge at the associated med school (BU, Tufts, G-town)

question: is there any way i can still take advantage of applying early by using my old MCAT scores in June on the AMCAS and then updating in August with new scores if need be?

alright enough rambling...be honest if you think this is a stupid waste of time and money.

thanks

 

[pillowhead]

I think you can improve your MCAT score substantially. the fact that your highest sub-section score is verbal is a good thing. It should be relatively easy to bring those science scores up a few points while improving on verbal is very difficult for most people. I know retaking the MCAT is not what you want to do, but I believe if you enroll in a TPR or Kaplan course, work hard, and improve that MCAT AND apply earlier and more broadly, you stand a very good chance.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I don't think the MCAT is your trouble at all. Sure, if you want to slave away and try to improve your score that's fine. But if you have to reapply, (and you still might not yet!) I think more clinical experience, applying EARLY and applying to more schools that are a good fit for you, your interests & experiences will be MUCH more helpful than a new MCAT score.

Also, if you haven't yet, send an update letter to schools about what you're doing now for work!

An above poster hit the nail on the head about choosing schools, too. This year I decided that it didn't matter where in the US I landed up, as long as I got accepted, it would be better than having to move to Grenada. That attitude worked for me (my second time) and a friend (his fourth time).

 

[juleswinfield]

Hey man,

I wish you luck. The biggest thing you can do is have your AMCAS submitted along with all your transcripts on June 1 or whatever the date is this year. Do your personal statement NOW. Get your LORs rolling now. Get everything ready so that you are the first one in. Then you can think about retaking the MCAT if you really want to.

I find myself giving the same advice alot on here but if you look at my stats, I did get in on the first try with a weak gpa and a decent MCAT. It definitely helped that I was 28 but everyone will be 28 sooner or later so take that for what it's worth.

Use the search function on here to look for comments from me (juleswinfield) and from a guy named Braluk. He and I are non-trads who got into Tulane this year. He took the SMP route and I winged it. With your GPA, I would recommend that you should "wing it" too as opposed to going SMP because you have to actually finish the SMP and pay all that $$$ along the way before med school.

Good luck.

Late.

 

[pillowhead]

I don't think the MCAT is your trouble at all. Sure, if you want to slave away and try to improve your score that's fine. But if you have to reapply, (and you still might not yet!) I think more clinical experience, applying EARLY and applying to more schools that are a good fit for you, your interests & experiences will be MUCH more helpful than a new MCAT score.

I completely disagree. I have sat in on admissions stuff and an MCAT below 30 will just keep you out of my school even if everything else is great. There are just so many applicants that 30 has become a hard cutoff.

Also, I think the OP has major potential to improve his MCAT. Again, if his weakness was verbal and he did well on the sciences, I might think differently. But because he scored so much lower on the sciences, I think he could easily raise the MCAT score. I think with the less than stellar (although not totally horrible) GPA, that's his/her only option. Clinical experience and research is great, but it's icing on the cake only AFTER an applicant has proven academic competence. A 3.45 BCPM GPA with a 29 MCAT is questionable for the academic competence part. Is it possible to get in with those scores somewhere? It's not impossible but there's certainly no guarantee. A 3.45 BCPM GPA with a 33 MCAT is much much more impressive.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I completely disagree. I have sat in on admissions stuff and an MCAT below 30 will just keep you out of my school even if everything else is great. There are just so many applicants that 30 has become a hard cutoff.

Well, looking at MSAR, there are plenty of applicants getting accepted w/27's and up. A few with less than that - but that's rare. It is a cutoff at your school, and that's fine. I'm sure it may be at some others, too, but certainly not most, or all. At least from the MSAR reports. I'm just going by them, because I am not on the inside of an admissions committee.
Will a higher score increase your chances? No question.
Is it the easy way out to assume that your score is what kept you out, and that simply raising it will be the secret to success? Absolutely.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

I think you can improve your MCAT score substantially. the fact that your highest sub-section score is verbal is a good thing. It should be relatively easy to bring those science scores up a few points while improving on verbal is very difficult for most people. I know retaking the MCAT is not what you want to do, but I believe if you enroll in a TPR or Kaplan course, work hard, and improve that MCAT AND apply earlier and more broadly, you stand a very good chance.

Pillowhead makes an excellent point. Taking the MCAT again sucks, but you're in a GREAT position to be able to substantially improve your score.

 

[DarwinDoc]

thanks for all the great advice guys. definitely appreciated.

and while i wouldn't neccessarily agree i'm in a GREAT position to raise my MCAT, i do think i could do it with some intense studying. back in 2005 (oh god that was so long ago) i was scoring 32-34s on practice exams, getting mostly 12's and higher on verbal. it's that damn physical science section i worry about... ill have to peruse some MCAT forums for prep tips.

do you think it would terrible if i didn't take it until july/august? the last thing i want to do is risk going down.

and what do you think about the SMP idea in addition to the MCAT? complete waste of time and money? call me a nerd, i'm itching to get back into the classroom and i figure it might help offset the low gpa a little.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

thanks for all the great advice guys. definitely appreciated.

and while i wouldn't neccessarily agree i'm in a GREAT position to raise my MCAT, i do think i could do it with some intense studying. back in 2005 (oh god that was so long ago) i was scoring 32-34s on practice exams, getting mostly 12's and higher on verbal. it's that damn physical science section i worry about... ill have to peruse some MCAT forums for prep tips.

do you think it would terrible if i didn't take it until july/august? the last thing i want to do is risk going down.

and what do you think about the SMP idea in addition to the MCAT? complete waste of time and money? call me a nerd, i'm itching to get back into the classroom and i figure it might help offset the low gpa a little.

If you just want to raise the GPA, take post-bacc classes. SMP grades don't count toward the GPA, I don't think.

 

[DarwinDoc]

If you just want to raise the GPA, take post-bacc classes. SMP grades don't count toward the GPA, I don't think.

oh i know the SMP grades won't actually raise my GPA, but i figured an SMP would be more interesting given that i already have a BS in Bio...and don't really feel the need to take more undergrad classes...but perhaps theres something i don't know about post-baccs

 

[Tired Pigeon]

oh i know the SMP grades won't actually raise my GPA, but i figured an SMP would be more interesting given that i already have a BS in Bio...and don't really feel the need to take more undergrad classes...but perhaps theres something i don't know about post-baccs

My apologies, Darwin 🙂 -- I didn't look at your original stats again before than last post about post-bacc vs. SMP. Your GPA is fine & post-bacc is unnecessary. The SMP is likely unnecessary as well. Really, you're looking really good if you can just get that MCAT up. Even without any changes at all, you seem like you'd be fairly competitive as long as you applied early and broadly.

I understand wanting to be back in the classroom, but an SMP is a major commitment of both time and money. Why not take some selective upper-level undergrad courses in areas that interest you (and may be relevant to med school). Of course, with a bio degree, you've probably had a lot of these, but there must be something ....

 

[Orthodoc40]

the last thing i want to do is risk going down.

Since you guys seem so caught up with the numbers, seriously think about this risk, and look at the numbers the AAMC posts on re-takers being able to substantially increase their scores. I would only re-take the MCAT if you are sure you're not going to do worse. Not trying to be negative - it's just not that easy to raise your score (according to the numbers, that is). I know someone w/a 33 MCAT and a 3.89 GPA that is on his 4th application cycle this year. The numbers are NOT a guarantee!

And I think that IF you don't get in this year, DD (there is still a good chance you will!) your first plan should be to contact the schools you interviewed at and ask THEM what you need to improve, not us.

 

[hb2998]

I know someone w/a 33 MCAT and a 3.89 GPA that is on his 4th application cycle this year.

Geezzz!! Thats insane! Seriously, your friend needs to have someone proof read his/her personal statement. I really feel sorry for him/her.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Geezzz!! Thats insane! Seriously, your friend needs to have someone proof read his/her personal statement. I really feel sorry for him/her.

Persistent, that's for sure.

But this year he added DO schools to his list and was invited to interview & accepted at all the ones he interviewed at. Even though he is just as competitive as the next MD candidate, it just hasn't happened for him that way.

This is what I'm saying - people with volunteer, shadowing, research work, great numbers - are a dime a dozen.

 

[Malla]

thanks for all the great advice guys. definitely appreciated.

and while i wouldn't neccessarily agree i'm in a GREAT position to raise my MCAT, i do think i could do it with some intense studying. back in 2005 (oh god that was so long ago) i was scoring 32-34s on practice exams, getting mostly 12's and higher on verbal. it's that damn physical science section i worry about... ill have to peruse some MCAT forums for prep tips.

do you think it would terrible if i didn't take it until july/august? the last thing i want to do is risk going down.

and what do you think about the SMP idea in addition to the MCAT? complete waste of time and money? call me a nerd, i'm itching to get back into the classroom and i figure it might help offset the low gpa a little.

I think I remember there being an option on most secondaries telling the school if you took the august MCAT (I know it will be different now) and if you wanted them to hold the review of your application until scores are in.

If you really want to retake the MCAT then do it, but don't wait until you get your scores to apply. Turn your primary in on June 1st, apply broadly, and go from there. You may get more interviews based solely on the fact that you applied early.

CAUTION: If you don't think you can do better on the MCAT then don't take it again. If you can't score above a 33 or 34 then don't bother. People say that there is about a point or two deviation between tests so that one test you will score lets say a 28 on the next you will score a 30 just because the material is slightly different.

Taking some interesting classes is much better than trying to do a program. I am doing my MS in cell and molecular biology in a year and it SUCKS!!! I would much rather be doing other things and taking classes for fun!