In order to become a med school professor, do you need an MD or an MD-PhD?

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Also, what are the sub-types of medical school professors?

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[aalamruad]

No, some are PhD's

 

[neusu]

The first half of med school, the didactics, is taught mostly by MD, PhD, or MD/PhD lecturers along with a mix of various other degrees (psychologists, dieticians, therapists etc.). The latter half, the clinical rotations, is taught by MD and DO physicians, who may or may not have a PhD (or other degrees such as MPH, MBA, etc.).

 

[NeuResurgens]

If I understand right, there's a spectrum of professorships. There are strictly PhDs who are med school faculty who as neusu said likely are teaching the preclinical curriculum, and they focus more on basic science research for the medical school. MDs can also become professors - they are going to be professors of their specialty within the faculty. They might also teach preclinical courses for the body system that they work with. MD/PhDs can become faculty but they have the broadest possibilities for research - the MD gives them access to patients for clinical or translational science while the PhD allows them to be more versed in research techniques, grant writing, and basic science.

 

[mwsapphire]

@Goro (He's a prof at a DO school)


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[LoveBeingHuman:)]

If I want to teach medicine, and I want to do research and have my own lab, what should I pursue? MD, PhD, or MD-PhD?

 

[cactusman]

@Goro (He's a prof at a DO school)


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And he's a PhD, no MD.

 

[colbgw02]

The safest path would be MD/PhD, obviously, although MDs can have their own lab as well. If, when you say medicine, you mean clinical medicine and not pre-clinical courses, then you're not going to get to teach that without an MD or DO (or equivalent).

 

[cactusman]

If I want to teach medicine, and I want to do research and have my own lab, what should I pursue? MD, PhD, or MD-PhD?

MD-PhD would probably be ideal. NIH seems to prefer MD-PhDs for grant awards, I believe.

If you're set on academic medicine, MD only will be more costly for a lower salary (all this isn't really very important, even academic medicine would usually even out in lifetime cost because of the 4 unpaid training years), and you won't be as prepared for research.

 

[Lucca]

Most people who are going into MD/PhD training are not looking to teach in the undergraduate medical setting. Most want to run labs and see patients. Clinical instructor positions are filled by MDs/DOs who, like another poster said, may or may not have a PhD or any number of other degrees. Physicians are involved in education throughout the career path and being a professor (in the sense of having an academic appointment that says "professor") is one manifestation of this. Physicians can also be involved in teaching pre-clinical sciences, teaching residents, presenting at conferences on their area of expertise to other specialists or expert, lecturing on a basic science topic, writing book chapters on a subject in addition to conducting their own research, etc.

Most professorships in basic science departments at medical schools are held by scientists (PhDs) and physician scientists (MDs or MD/PhDs).

 

[Goro]

Yup, neusu nailed it.

At the several med schools I've been associated with, at the preclinical level I have seen PhDs (mostly), MDs, or MD/PhDs teaching the classical basic sciences. A handful of people had MS degrees, and there were even some DCs. At clinical level, the vast majority were MDs, and a few DOs. MD/PhDs tended to be researchers with very little teaching responsibilities.

The first half of med school, the didactics, is taught mostly by MD, PhD, or MD/PhD lecturers along with a mix of various other degrees (psychologists, dieticians, therapists etc.). The latter half, the clinical rotations, is taught by MD and DO physicians, who may or may not have a PhD (or other degrees such as MPH, MBA, etc.).

 

[Doctor-S]

Also, what are the sub-types of medical school professors?

In addition to full-time academic medical school professors (MD, DO, MD-PhD) and part-time clinical medical school professors (MD, DO, MD-PhD), it is common for other individuals (with non-medical graduate degrees) to teach different classes or seminars in medical schools.

For instance:

DMDs (dental medicine), Pharm.D. (pharmacological science), PsyD or PhD (clinical psychology), JD (legal medicine/forensics), MBA (health administration), DVM (zoonotic diseases/lab research), MPH (public health), and PhDs (in other disciplines, such as anatomy, biochemistry or medical physics) are eligible for appointments to the teaching staff or become part-time clinical lecturers at my school.

Many of these individuals are involved in didactics during the first two years of medical school. Many of them are also engaged in research (or might maintain private practices, depending on their credentials). In the 3rd and 4th year of medical school, MDs, DOs and MD-PhDs are mainly responsible for clinical rotations.

 

[mwsapphire]

And he's a PhD, no MD.

He originally wanted MD, but inorgranic chem ( stoich. and electron orbitals) made him change his mind XD ( I asked him, on his profile )

 

[cactusman]

He originally wanted MD, but inorgranic chem ( stoich. and electron orbitals) made him change his mind XD ( I asked him, on his profile )

Please, no, this is my second to last day of spring break and I had almost gotten through it without remembering there is such a thing as crystal packing.

 

[Goro]

And thank God it did, because this is what med school would have done to me:

He originally wanted MD, but inorgranic chem ( stoich. and electron orbitals) made him change his mind XD ( I asked him, on his profile )

 

[mwsapphire]

Please, no, this is my second to last day of spring break and I had almost gotten through it without remembering there is such a thing as crystal packing.

What is crystal packing??? I already finished the inrorganic chem sequence you clearly go to some top notch school.

 

[mwsapphire]

And thank God it did, because this is what med school would have done to me:

And a PhD didn't?
Inorganic chem is so easy though,I should have used my AP credit, but it's frowned upon to do that for med school. I can see why orgo would make you change your mind.
EDIT: Unless you went to an undergrad were Gen chem is the weed-out class.

 

[cactusman]

What is crystal packing??? I already finished the inrorganic chem sequence you clearly go to some top notch school.

Your inorganic chem sequence is probably what mine calls gen chem. At my school inorganic chem is a slightly higher-level course that's focused largely on transition metals.

 

[NeuResurgens]

And a PhD didn't?
Inorganic chem is so easy though,I should have used my AP credit, but it's frowned upon to do that for med school. I can see why orgo would make you change your mind.
EDIT: Unless you went to an undergrad were Gen chem is the weed-out class.

Inorganic vs. organic is an individually based question, and in my experience if you like one you dislike the other. I hated inorganic, but I got through it just by faking it till I made it. I loved organic and I was good at it - I'm good with spatial reasoning and could envision the molecules accurately. With inorganic, it was mostly math and I absolutely don't have a quantitative mind.

 

[mwsapphire]

Your inorganic chem sequence is probably what mine calls gen chem. At my school inorganic chem is a slightly higher-level course that's focused largely on transition metals.

So you're in that higher level course?

 

[bioboy23]

What is crystal packing??? I already finished the inrorganic chem sequence you clearly go to some top notch school.

Crystal packing pretty much sucks. We just had our big exam over it the Friday before spring break. It has been a long week waiting to see what I got on it lol.

 

[motu]

Does anyone know of med students TA'ing within medical school? Either for undergraduate classes or for M1 classes if you're a M2?

 

[NeuResurgens]

Does anyone know of med students TA'ing within medical school? Either for undergraduate classes or for M1 classes if you're a M2?

From what I hear upper tears (3,4) will TA for first year anatomy at some schools. School dependent really

 

[Stagg737]

And a PhD didn't?

MD/DO vs. PhD are two very different paths of learning. Medicine has the classic analogy of drinking from a fire hose. It's not that the material is particularly difficult, it's that trying to learn the sheer volume of material, much of which is minutiae, in such a limited time then being evaluated on all of it on a single test which can determine the rest of your career (Step 1) can be pretty devastating and soul-crushing. Even worse, a lot of that material is either something you'll never use again (unless you enter that field) or might just hate and there is little flexibility in terms of what you're learning.

On the other hand, the PhD route typically requires you to learn much less in terms of factoids and minutiae and allows you to explore conceptual science a lot more. You're not learning from a rigid curriculum, but instead exploring a field of your choosing and honing in on the facts that are relevant to what you're trying to learn and study. It's still a lot of work, but you get much more freedom to choose what you're learning, set your own schedule, create your own experiments, and generally explore the area of science you're studying. The big downside is that you can literally spend years of your life developing and running an experiment that yields almost nothing new.

If you want to look at it another way, I'd say medical education is more about the ends justifying the means in the sense that at the end of the road physicians know they'll be treating patients or entering a field where they can finally do what they want, while a PhD education is more about the journey because you get to decide what you're going to try and learn and whatever happens with your experiment happens. The idea that a person is actually choosing what they study and that they have direct control over what direction of their education can fight the burnout a lot easier than someone who has to sit there and cram factoids 10 hours a day for 2 years straight. So while both routes can be very difficult, they're difficult in very different ways, and some people fit one of those routes better than the other.

 

[Geo16]

I have a question. How is it even possible to juggle Medical School and PhD? I just can't wrap this around. Don't Med-students take around 32 credits (some 28-40 lol) per semester? Isn't that insane?

 

[Levo]

I have a question. How is it even possible to juggle Medical School and PhD? I just can't wrap this around. Don't Med-students take around 32 credits (some 28-40 lol) per semester? Isn't that insane?

In most MD-PhD dual degree programs, students do their first 2 years of med school, then take 4 years to complete their PhD, then finish their last two years of med school. 8 years total.

 

[Geo16]

In most MD-PhD dual degree programs, students do their first 2 years of med school, then take 4 years to complete their PhD, then finish their last two years of med school. 8 years total.

Ah, I see! Thank you!!

 

[AlteredScale]

Does anyone know of med students TA'ing within medical school? Either for undergraduate classes or for M1 classes if you're a M2?

Yeah. I TA/Tutor for anatomy and physiology for M1s. Had to apply for it though. Hoping to do the same for pathology for M2s if I end up taking a LOA from clinical rotations.

I don't think doing this means you're destined to become a professor but if you love teaching then might as well take the opportunity.

To add to the conversation many clinical faculty MD/DO teach at the third and fourth year level and some do come in to teach specific courses. At our school we have a lot more clinical faculty teaching us second year then first year (which is mostly PhDs and MD PhDs).

 

[eteshoe]

Ah, I see! Thank you!!

It's as @Levo described but as @Stagg737 alluded to the amount of time in the PhD can be a bit more nebulous than the MD so the grad school years can range from 4-6 years. It comes down to what type of project the student has, the amount of things that go wrong, the program, and of course luck. So overall, the dual degree pathway can range from 8-10 yrs.

 

[FlameBroiledDoc]

Faculties of medicine will typically have tenure (Senate) track and non-tenure track professors. Tenure track professors are researchers or clinician-researchers, and will be doing thesis Master's and PhD degrees. Non-tenure track professors are clinicians, that almost always have to do some form of research to maintain an academic appointment. Often the non-tenure track doctors will top out at Associate Professor, though full Professor might be awarded down the road for an exemplary record in research. It's not necessary to do thesis degrees to have a non-tenure position, although many will have an MBA, MPH, MEd, Masters' in Clinical Epidemiology, etc.

 

[Geo16]

It's as @Levo described but as @Stagg737 alluded to the amount of time in the PhD can be a bit more nebulous than the MD so the grad school years can range from 4-6 years. It comes down to what type of project the student has, the amount of things that go wrong, the program, and of course luck. So overall, the dual degree pathway can range from 8-10 yrs.

Noice, I know it's really a 'searchable' question, but thank you all very much for answering it!!

 

[cactusman]

So you're in that higher level course?

Yes, it's not a fun time. 🙁

 

[BeddingfieldMD]

In order to become a med school professor, do you need an MD or an MD/PhD?

You absolutely do not need an MD/PhD to become a med school professor. You should only consider getting an MD/PhD combination if you are very interested in incorporating a lot of medical research into your career--not just becoming a medical faculty at an academic medical center.

In short, any physician who practices at an academic center usually has a pretty good shot of becoming some sort of professor. They may start as an instructor, but if they stick around long enough and at least have some sort of publication or teaching underway, they will move up the ranks of Assistant Professor, then Associate Professor. If they remain committed to a career in academic medicine, have chaired some committees, and have at least a few good publications under their belt, they have a good shot of becoming a tenured professor--i.e. full "Professor" title. It can help sometimes to get an MPH or MBA. But a PhD is essentially never required.

"Sub-types" of medical professors, as you ask about, are basically pre-clinical and clinical. Pre-clinical medical professors don't even have to have an MD. These are almost always PhDs who teach in the basic sciences and are involved in teaching a couple med school classes like biochemistry, anatomy, etc. The clinical faculty are mostly practicing faculty (i.e. orthopedic surgeons, general internists, pathologists, etc.) who teach students and residents to varying degrees while performing their normal duties, maybe teach a lecture or two, and usually do some sort of research--again, to broadly varying degrees.

Except for the most committed academic physicians, know that there isn't a sharp distinction between being a "med school professor" and a community physician. Many docs start their careers at a teaching hospital (often with the title of Assistant Professor) and after a few years go into private practice, the military, or some other way of practicing medicine--and vice versa.

Hope that helps!

 

[BeddingfieldMD]

I have a question. How is it even possible to juggle Medical School and PhD? I just can't wrap this around. Don't Med-students take around 32 credits (some 28-40 lol) per semester? Isn't that insane?

Most programs divide the two degrees entirely. For instance, at my med school alma mater, we all started in pre-clinical classes, then after two years the MD/PhDs left and started their PhD lab work. While the rest of us completed our clinical rotations in the hospital wards and clinics, the MD/PhDs spent on average 3-5 years completing their research projects and PhD theses. Afterwards, they started clinical rotations and spent another 2 years completing their MD degrees. By that time, most of the rest of us were in residency or fellowship--or in practice.

The details vary between institutions, but the above is a common schedule. There is also some overlap. For example, many MD/PhDs spent some time during the pre-clinical years preparing for their research projects, developing relationships with lab PIs, etc. Similarly, they sometimes would spend a couple weeks on a clinical rotation during their PhD years to keep at least one foot in the world of clinical medicine.

Finally, yes, you're correct that most med schools teach roughly double the number of usual credits per semester during the pre-clinical years. Your observations are right that for nearly everyone, it would be impossible to complete an MD and PhD in a truly concurrent fashion.


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[BeddingfieldMD]

Does anyone know of med students TA'ing within medical school? Either for undergraduate classes or for M1 classes if you're a M2?

Yes, I did this during the summer between my M2 and M3 years. It slightly delayed the start of my clinical rotations, but it was worth it in my opinion. Was a nice review of anatomy, and it was fun working with the new students. It might have also offered some sort of stipend, but I can't really remember to be honest.

Many schools offer this option to upperclassmen students. The details vary.


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[moggat]

If I want to teach medicine, and I want to do research and have my own lab, what should I pursue? MD, PhD, or MD-PhD?

Do you have any desire to treat patients? Because if what you want to do is teach medicine and do research, you'd be much better off going the straight PhD route. There's no point in getting an MD if you don't want to see patients, and a PhD is more than sufficient to teach in academia as well as run a lab (in fact its traditional).