IN RESPONSE TO THE SGU vs DO POST

[IWSMD]

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Hi,

I just wanted to clear up some of the misconceptions that were mentioned in this thread. My husband is a SGU student. By the way there are scholarships, in fact my husband got 2 of them. Also, you don't pay for 5 years of school, you only pay for 4 just like the US. There are 5 academic years but that is because they count 2 six week semesters as 1 academic year, therefore making 10 terms in 4 calendar years..so as you can see no difference. In fact, anatomy is only for 17 weeks and much more difficult than american schools, which takes a whole year long. The anatomy and pathology lab are state of the art, better than 85% of US med school labs. I'm not sure where you get your information, but residency matching from here supercedes DO matching in the US. I know of several people that graduated from SGU..one is a lead neonatologist, another chief neurosurgeon, and another an OB/GYN. There are also a few family practice grads from here I know...and none had trouble getting residency. It's all how hard you work, and what you put into school, as to what you get out of it. Several students here passed up DO school to come here. Anyone who calls SGU a second rate MD degree is ignorant, and just lacks facts. Just wanted to put in my $.02. And by the way..it's pretty nice to be able to take a dip in the ocean between classes or on a break! 😎

 

[The Pill Counter]

scholarships aside, sgu charges 28 thousand something USD five times, regardless if the course is completed in 4 yrs. therefore, before scholarships, the cost of tuition is around 140 000 USD.

 

[Hedwig]

I don't recall anyone on that post ever implying that an SGU degree is second-rate. What was addressed was the stigma that surrounds osteopathic physicians as opposed to Carribean-trained physicians, and the post-grad opportunities for each.

I appreciate your defense of SGU, but I don't believe it's called for under the circumstances. Nobody attacked the school, which, from all the posts one can read about it on SDN, is universally regarded as the top Carribean medical school for American students.

Also, I highly doubt that the SGU matchlist "supercedes" that of any DO school. Go to the AOA website (www.aoa-net.org) and use their doctor finder tool to see how many DOs are in the top surgical specialties. There are ~800 DO orthopedic surgeons registered with the AOA. This is to say nothing of neurosurgery, urology, ophthalmology, etc. It's great that you know an SGU grad who's head neurosurgeon. The chief resident at UC Davis is a DO. As a matter of fact, there are six osteopathic neurosurgeons just in the state of Pennsylvania! In that same state, there are 25 registered osteopathic urologists, 30 osteopathic ophthalmologists, and 92 osteopathic orthopedic surgeons! And these are just the ones who register with the AOA. There's not even an argument here.

As a matter of fact, NYCOM's match list is posted on this site somewhere. I'm sure you could search for it. If I remember correctly, 5 of their graduates went into orthopedic surgery, for example.

While, as I believe was mentioned on that post, some SGU grads do become highly specialized, which nobody doubts, I think you'd have a tough time arguing that more SGU grads go into competitive fields than graduates of the osteopathic medical schools. It's simply not the case.

 

[Hedwig]

I looked at the matchlist for SGU's class of 2001--276 students graduating. (You can get this at <a href="http://www.sgu.edu," target="_blank">www.sgu.edu,</a> by the way.) Out of all of them, the following matched into competitive specialties (i.e., not anesth, gen surg, PM&R, psych, neuro, primary care, etc.):

Emergency Medicine: 15
Orthopedic Surgery: 2
Diagnostic Radiology: 4
Ophthalmology: 1

I also looked up NYCOM's 2000 matchlist, which is on this site, and got the following from thier class of 220:

Emergency Medicine: 21 (12 DO, 9 MD)
Emergency Medicine/FP: 1 (DO)
Orthopedic Surgery: 4 (DO)
Diagnostic Radiology: 6 (1 DO, 5 MD)
Ophthalmology: 2 (1 DO, 1 MD)
Urology: 1 (MD)

So, with all due respect, whoever argues that St. George University's matchlist "supercedes" the matchlists from osteopathic medical schools doesn't know what he/she's talking about. It just goes to show how much ignorance is out there about osteopathic medical education amongst the allopathic community, international and domestic alike.

I'm sure the education at St. G's is of high quality and, IMHO, their matchlist is very impressive for a Carribean medical school, but do some research before making these stratospheric declamations about things you know nothing about.

 

[UHS2002]

Great post Hedwig!

It seems that through the years, some discussions never change... There is ample info on DO matching lists, the evidence is out there for everyone to see...and yet, there are still some misinformed/malinformed people claiming that this or that Caribbean school is better.

At this point, with so much info avaliable from reliable sources, if someone is still so obtuse as to persist on the false notion that a Caribbean MD degree is superior to a US DO degree, then they deserve to go off shore to med school. Some peple think that, by spreading enough falsehood, it will somehow magically become truth.

 

[hosskp1]

I know that this might not have any worth to anyone-- but me. I would like to say that a true american patriot would not go abroad to become a doctor--ever. But I am assuming most of the St. George's students are not great patriots anyway. None of them are going into military service ever. I am in the military and a DO (the former sugeon general of the Army-- General Blanck was a DO) (He did not go the Ross or St George) There are not any SGU graduates in leadership or residency or anything in the military. They are not welcomed and probably will not be. There are no SGU grads as Attending at Walter Reed-- but there are plenty of DO's there. This whole argument is for people from these foreign that need to overcompensate to make up for their inadequacies. How could you go to school in a place where they had to send the MArines and the Special forces just to liberate the island from communists. They need to justify the fact that they spent a few years abroad worrying about the next invasion.

 

[BlueFalcon]

Hooskp,

I'm sure everyone at Walter Reed is quite proud to work with the man who decides who is and is not "a true american patriot." Are you kidding me? I'll bet the only reason you're in the military is because they're paying off your med school loans. I bet you skedaddle as soon as your loans are paid up. Pretty hollow patriotism is you ask me. If you were a true patriot, you wouldn't embarass the Army by representing yourself as a member of the Army and proceeding to act like a nitwit.

 

[leorl]

I will bite my tongue because what I would have to say to hosskp1 would be 10x more incendiary and hostile than bluefalcon's. Your ignorant thinking is not even worth the time I'm taking to respond.

1) Where the hell did the military conversation come in to play? You just perpetuated my personal opinion that many in the army are among the most brainwashed, ignorant and uneducated people in the US.

2) how DARE you accuse people who choose other options as being unpatriotic? is your brain in your ass? Going abroad for education is actually one of the most patriotic things you can do because it allows you to see US policy, actions and attitudes from another perspective which makes you a hell of a lot more appreciative of this great country and gives suggestions of how things in this country can improve to make it an even greater country.

no wonder praying4md singled you out on that other thread, you @#%&.

 

[Maran]

I've never been part of an adcomm for a residency program, so I can't address prejudices, priorities or rankings in that arena. However, I do deal with people who are hiring for their (US) facilities.

Let me be very clear up front -- I do not believe that either DOs or FMGs are "second rate." The osteopathic philosophy of medicine and training has produced many wonderful doctors; and FMGs often bring many extra qualifications to the market (like extra residencies, multiple languages, etc.) And let's face it, numbers on test scores do not necessarily reflect or predict clinical ability.

However, it would be wrong to state that there are not prejudices to deal with when you look for that first (US) position. (I can't address issues in other countries where I have no experience.)

In general, most facilities give their first choice as someone "American Trained." However, this is just as likely to reflect their desire for someone born in the US (as opposed to a "foreigner") as it is any belief system about international medical programs. Remember, it is illegal to discriminate based on race, ethnicity or national origin when hiring in the US (though, of course, it happens anyway.) It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on ACGME or AOA accreditation.

However, this should not discourage anyone from pursuing their passion. We make excellent placements for FMGs and DOs every day.

If you know that your trainging program, studies and experience have adequately prepared you to practice, and you go through the appropriate licensing paths, you will have a career you love.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

Fact is, the US military is very happy to enlist physician recuits who are IMGs with ECFMG certification. Moreover, IMGs who have become bi-lingual/bi-cultural in the process of becoming a physician abroad are all the more valuable to the military. Such IMGs may find that their service to their country is given in most unique ways.