Incoming P1s...can't stop them

[rxglasshalffull]

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I just graduated from pharmacy school last month and know about the market and all that negative stuff we talk about here....I know someone that is going into pharmacy school in fall...*sigh* they are so falsely hopeful

 

[smercer]

You started a new thread to say that?

 

[Digsbe]

It's better to be hopeful over being unrealistically pessimistic.

 

[Stilltrying1288]

New thread and account!

 

[owlegrad]

Humorous username though.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

damn right, new thread and new account. ive been reading SDN for years but actually decided to post because i feel strongly about the new falsely hopeful P1s. that is all.

 

[metrarx]

I see. As soon as you graduate you make this thread. Why didn't you post this when you were a P1?

The same could be said about me but I graduated before pharmacy took a turn on ****** street.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's better to be hopeful over being unrealistically pessimistic.

I hope for the best but always assume the worst and plan accordingly, so far so good.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I hope for the best but always assume the worst and plan accordingly, so far so good.

+1

don't need to assume the worst, but always have plan for that possibility is right on.

 

[ethyl]

Meh, demand is balanced for the first time in a couple decades.

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/usstatemap.jsp

 

[lisinopril]

Meh, demand is balanced for the first time in a couple decades.

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/usstatemap.jsp

I never trusted this pharmacymanpower nor BLS stats. Obviously, the market was already saturated since 2007 and BLS up til now still states that pharmacy jobs are expected to grow faster than average.. What a joke!

 

[Corpseman]

I never trusted this pharmacymanpower nor BLS stats. Obviously, the market was already saturated since 2007 and BLS up til now still states that pharmacy jobs are expected to grow faster than average.. What a joke!

Much easier to believe anonymous people on the intranets, amirite?

 

[BMBiology]

Much easier to believe anonymous people on the intranets, amirite?

Then why are you on this forum?

Only pharmacists who are working in the field and have tried to apply for a pharmacist position know how difficult and saturated the profession had become. Don't believe it? Put together a pharmacist resume and apply away, just to see how many replies you get. Yeah you can network but lets be frank here, most of your job hunting will be online.

I have said this for a while now and there is no point in repeating myself.

As new grads further saturate the profession, I expect many more people will start posting about the lack of job on this forum.

 

[Corpseman]

Then why are you on this forum?

I am a proud supporter of a dying profession, what can I say?

 

[BMBiology]

Oh yeah I forgot, you are still a student.

Either you are extremely naive or you think you are better than most of your colleagues. You may not live in a saturated area but what do you think is going to happen a year or two from now? All the people who can't find a job in the city are going to move to rural America, pretty much anywhere there is a job for them. That is a lot better than defaulting on their 250 k in student loans.

Just wait for a few years from now until you have actually graduated and then get back to us and let us know how you are doing. Until then you are not impressing anyone with your arrogant (or ignorant).

 

[Corpseman]

Oh yeah I forgot, you are still a student.

Either you are extremely naive or you think you are better than most of your colleagues. You may not live in a saturated area but what do you think is going to happen a year or two from now? All the people who can't find a job in the city are going to move to rural America, pretty much anywhere there is a job for them. That is a lot better than defaulting on their 250 k in student loans.

Just wait for a few years from now until you have actually graduated and then get back to us and let us know how you are doing. Until then you are not impressing anyone with your arrogant (or ignorant).

I am arrogant, because I have more life experience than you ever will. If I don't find a job right away, so be it, I will get over it and move on. I was homeless as a child, I am just happy to be alive with a roof over my head. I will live a long happy life as an employed/unemployed farmie, hate to break your pessimistic view of life.

 

[pharmd201389]

Don't worry about new grads.
Just be the best you can be at your job,
And you will probably always have one. They're the ones who will be screwed,
Not you.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Threads like these make me think that 60-90% of the graduating pharmacy classes will be job-less. I highly doubt that's reality but I'm sure there's some truth to what these threads are telling me.

Like I said in a post awhile ago, IMO, the difficulty of finding a job after pharmacy school would be somewhere between "it's a little difficult to find one" and "it's impossible/get out while you still have a chance." I don't necessarily mind competition in getting a job and I sure as hell don't deserve one if I just went through the motions in school. However, I just feel that some notable posters warp reality and make it overly-negative. Those posters make it impossible for me to truly have a solid idea on what I'm getting myself into. I know the job market for pharmacy is bad, but you can say the same exact thing for the overall job market to an extent.

I only had one person give me a realistic view on pharmacy, but that came with resistance from others. If any of you can share a realistic viewpoint on what is going on in pharmacy these days, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Don't worry about new grads.
Just be the best you can be at your job,
And you will probably always have one. They're the ones who will be screwed,
Not you.

You're right. That is exactly what I am doing. I just want to make money while I can. Afterall, I went to school for YEARS and am in GREAT debt. Money is what I need right now and that is a reality.

 

[grumps]

Threads like these make me think that 60-90% of the graduating pharmacy classes will be job-less. I highly doubt that's reality but I'm sure there's some truth to what these threads are telling me.

Like I said in a post awhile ago, IMO, the difficulty of finding a job after pharmacy school would be somewhere between "it's a little difficult to find one" and "it's impossible/get out while you still have a chance." I don't necessarily mind competition in getting a job and I sure as hell don't deserve one if I just went through the motions in school. However, I just feel that some notable posters warp reality and make it overly-negative. Those posters make it impossible for me to truly have a solid idea on what I'm getting myself into. I know the job market for pharmacy is bad, but you can say the same exact thing for the overall job market to an extent.

I only had one person give me a realistic view on pharmacy, but that came with resistance from others. If any of you can share a realistic viewpoint on what is going on in pharmacy these days, I'd greatly appreciate it.

The reality is that approx 13,000 grads are hitting the national market every year. Yeah, yeah the pollyannas will tell you go to the rural markets, but these areas can't absorb the supply coming at them. Pick an area like the Dakotas and do a search. The jobs are concentrated in urban and suburban areas.

A disturbing trend I noticed the last few years I had a job was that all the older middle aged pharmacists had disappeared. I saw alot of them cruelly run out of the company for no good reason. They wanted nobody with resources that could put a fight to defend the profession. Only over-indebted grads with no leverage were being kept and alot of those would disappear after a few years when the hopelessness of the job became too much.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

13,000 new grads/year, that is more than I expected. I can't even imagine what the market will be like in 4 years, after more than 50,000 new grads have graduated...mind you that new pharmacy schools are STILL in he process of opening up as we speak. Hence the thread, I feel that the incoming P1s should know what they are getting themselves into. I wish that someone told me about the real market before I started pharmacy school. I don't mean to be overly negative, just realistic.

 

[technician107]

13,000 new grads/year, that is more than I expected. I can't even imagine what the market will be like in 4 years, after more than 50,000 new grads have graduated...mind you that new pharmacy schools are STILL in he process of opening up as we speak. Hence the thread, I feel that the incoming P1s should know what they are getting themselves into. I wish that someone told me about the real market before I started pharmacy school. I don't mean to be overly negative, just realistic.

I'm going to be a P1 this year. I have read all the negativity about the job outlook, but I still am going for it. I have worked too hard for the past 6 years since my career change - the past two and half years I've been working full time overnight pharmacy and attending full time school in the morning. I'm not going to just give it up because the outlook looks bad or because there's so many graduates. I'm competitive and I plan on being on top. I have already started reading the material 6 months out from when school starts. I know I'll find a job SOMEWHERE - I'll move, retail, do whatever I have to. I want to do a residency and specialize in pediatrics - but I'm passionate about the field and I'm going to keep going.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Threads like these make me think that 60-90% of the graduating pharmacy classes will be job-less. I highly doubt that's reality but I'm sure there's some truth to what these threads are telling me.

Like I said in a post awhile ago, IMO, the difficulty of finding a job after pharmacy school would be somewhere between "it's a little difficult to find one" and "it's impossible/get out while you still have a chance." I don't necessarily mind competition in getting a job and I sure as hell don't deserve one if I just went through the motions in school. However, I just feel that some notable posters warp reality and make it overly-negative. Those posters make it impossible for me to truly have a solid idea on what I'm getting myself into. I know the job market for pharmacy is bad, but you can say the same exact thing for the overall job market to an extent.

I only had one person give me a realistic view on pharmacy, but that came with resistance from others. If any of you can share a realistic viewpoint on what is going on in pharmacy these days, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Just to give you an idea of how things went to ****. I worked at a 700+ university hospital for the past four years. As students, each of us puts in over 3000 hours in a span of four years. Crazy dedication. Anyway, in 2010, two of the three students secured full-time jobs with the hospital. In 2011, all three students became per-diem (twice a month, but they had other jobs). in 2012, all three students became per-diem also. This year, my year, in 2013, the hospial no longer had room for per-diem. NONE of us stayed at the hospital, for the first time ever..

I can't speak for other locations an other people, but this is what is happening around me. Also out of the 5 Target interns in my class, only ONE secured a job with Target, the other ones were let go.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

I'm going to be a P1 this year. I have read all the negativity about the job outlook, but I still am going for it. I have worked too hard for the past 6 years since my career change - the past two and half years I've been working full time overnight pharmacy and attending full time school in the morning. I'm not going to just give it up because the outlook looks bad or because there's so many graduates. I'm competitive and I plan on being on top. I have already started reading the material 6 months out from when school starts. I know I'll find a job SOMEWHERE - I'll move, retail, do whatever I have to. I want to do a residency and specialize in pediatrics - but I'm passionate about the field and I'm going to keep going.

Good for you!! Hope things work out when you graduate in four years. 🙂

 

[Corpseman]

Just to give you an idea of how things went to ****. I worked at a 700+ university hospital for the past four years. As students, each of us puts in over 3000 hours in a span of four years. Crazy dedication. Anyway, in 2010, two of the three students secured full-time jobs with the hospital. In 2011, all three students became per-diem (twice a month, but they had other jobs). in 2012, all three students became per-diem also. This year, my year, in 2013, the hospial no longer had room for per-diem. NONE of us stayed at the hospital, for the first time ever..

I can't speak for other locations an other people, but this is what is happening around me. Also out of the 5 Target interns in my class, only ONE secured a job with Target, the other ones were let go.

Thankfully, every other career/profession out there has easy to find jobs with fabulous pay. No one, absolutely no one else has cut their hours down at all.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Thankfully, every other career/profession out there has easy to find jobs with fabulous pay. No one, absolutely no one else has cut their hours down at all.

I am aware of other professions going down to tube as well. I guess I am just disappointed because I was sold on a dream before starting pharmacy school, after years of hard work and $$$, I realized that the dream is gone.

 

[Corpseman]

I am aware of other professions going down to tube as well. I guess I am just disappointed because I was sold on a dream that is just not happening.

Fair enough. Good reply.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

If it makes us feel any better, nurses have it bad too apparently. They only go through 4 years of school though with a BSN, as oppose to 8 years, or 6 years with pharmacy.

 

[mustang sally]

The reality is that approx 13,000 grads are hitting the national market every year. Yeah, yeah the pollyannas will tell you go to the rural markets, but these areas can't absorb the supply coming at them. Pick an area like the Dakotas and do a search. The jobs are concentrated in urban and suburban areas.

A disturbing trend I noticed the last few years I had a job was that all the older middle aged pharmacists had disappeared. I saw alot of them cruelly run out of the company for no good reason. They wanted nobody with resources that could put a fight to defend the profession. Only over-indebted grads with no leverage were being kept and alot of those would disappear after a few years when the hopelessness of the job became too much.

Ha ha, I find this to be an ironic statement. So now it's considered a pollyanna viewpoint is to move to a rural market? That's just sad to me.

 

[BMBiology]

Just because you got a sob story doesn't mean you are not arrogant now. Your lack of empathy for what others are going thru is rather disappointing especially for someone with your background.

Not everyone got the GI bill to pay for his tuition. You know how scary it is to graduate with 250 to 300 k and can't find a job?

I am arrogant, because I have more life experience than you ever will. If I don't find a job right away, so be it, I will get over it and move on. I was homeless as a child, I am just happy to be alive with a roof over my head. I will live a long happy life as an employed/unemployed farmie, hate to break your pessimistic view of life. I have an internship (the only P1 hired by this company, even though they did not want to hire any P1s until their P2 year) that will, hopefully, lead to a full-time position when I graduate. If not, oh well....there is always Starbuck's!

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Not everyone got the GI bill to pay for his tuition. You know how scary it is to graduate with 250 to 300 k and can't find a job?

thats a lot of people right there. but the incoming P1s are hopeful. they will find something...and make lots of money and have a meaningful, respectable career.

 

[Corpseman]

Just because you got a sob story doesn't mean you are not arrogant now. Your lack of empathy for what others are going thru is rather disappointing especially for someone with your background.

Not everyone got the GI bill to pay for his tuition. You know how scary it is to graduate with 250 to 300 k and can't find a job?

Sacrifice 4+ years of your life and you too can get the GI Bill, it is not that hard. Actually one of my classmates was in the chAir Force for two years and is now going to pharmacy school for free.

Nope, I would never consider getting 300k in loans for any job. That is just insanely stupid. I have empathy for some, but for people who go chicken little on every little thing, well....go cry somewhere else. My "sob" story is to show that life goes on, whether you have a job or not.....stop crying about it, people have it much worse and are just happy to be alive. I am sorry you are not going to get that Mercedes that was promised or the sweet sign on bonus, I know....woe is you. Your sob story is killing me!!

The fact is though that more folks here (actual pharmacists) have jobs than not. The unemployment rate for farmie's is probably about the national average 7-10%. So, network, set yourself apart, and be flexible. It is not hard.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

13,000 new grads/year, that is more than I expected. I can't even imagine what the market will be like in 4 years, after more than 50,000 new grads have graduated...mind you that new pharmacy schools are STILL in he process of opening up as we speak. Hence the thread, I feel that the incoming P1s should know what they are getting themselves into. I wish that someone told me about the real market before I started pharmacy school. I don't mean to be overly negative, just realistic.

I wasn't directing my comments specifically towards you, to be honest. However, I agree that people like me should be aware of what is going on in the real world and not attempt to make naive statements without looking into the situation a little bit. I had one friend tell me that he/she felt that everyone was going to be alright and that we (the incoming P1s) will still be able to nail job offerings after pharmacy school. I was a bit...thrown off by that, to say the least.

The reality is that approx 13,000 grads are hitting the national market every year. Yeah, yeah the pollyannas will tell you go to the rural markets, but these areas can't absorb the supply coming at them. Pick an area like the Dakotas and do a search. The jobs are concentrated in urban and suburban areas.

A disturbing trend I noticed the last few years I had a job was that all the older middle aged pharmacists had disappeared. I saw alot of them cruelly run out of the company for no good reason. They wanted nobody with resources that could put a fight to defend the profession. Only over-indebted grads with no leverage were being kept and alot of those would disappear after a few years when the hopelessness of the job became too much.

I don't know if it's just me, but is it a possibility that the mandate of the PharmD professional degree in 1990 could have been a part in pharmacists being laid off? Or is the vast majority of the issue stemming from poor economic growth and the rapid increase in the number of pharmacy schools opening up?

At least from what I read, the field seemed to have been alright up until around 2003 or so, then everything just went south.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Oh look, another anecdotal "Pharmacy is a dead end profession because I made poor choices and can't deal with them" thread.

 

[owlegrad]

I only had one person give me a realistic view on pharmacy, but that came with resistance from others. If any of you can share a realistic viewpoint on what is going on in pharmacy these days, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I secured an RPh gig easily enough. Many of my classmates did as well.

 

[owlegrad]

The fact is though that more folks here (actual pharmacists) have jobs than not. The unemployment rate for farmie's is probably about the national average 7-10%.

Oh goodness no; much, much lower!

As well it should be; we have a doctorate degree for goodness' sake!

 

[Corpseman]

Oh goodness no; much, much lower!

As well it should be; we have a doctorate degree for goodness' sake!

I figured, just throwing out a very conservative value.

 

[lisinopril]

I secured an RPh gig easily enough. Many of my classmates did as well.

Just curious what area did you and your classmates secure such positions easily? I am just gonna send a bunch of whining students and pharmacists ( a lot of them here in California) who are currently unemployed to go there...Thanks ahead.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Just curious what area did you and your classmates secure such positions easily? I am just gonna send a bunch of whining students and pharmacists ( a lot of them here in California) who are currently unemployed to go there...Thanks ahead.

yea, where is this place?

 

[Corpseman]

yea, where is this place?

Pretty sure he is in a saturated place as well. Something like 5 pharmacy schools.

 

[Hello2000]

I secured an RPh gig easily enough. Many of my classmates did as well.

Oh goodness no; much, much lower!

As well it should be; we have a doctorate degree for goodness' sake!

Whatever!!!!!!!! You may secure a job, albeit in Timbuktu, however you didn't study 6-8 years for a phoney doctorate just to be treated like a bitch from corporate America.

And don't tell me "all industries/professions are like this". This is the most overused cliche on this forum. Just because "all professions" are the same doesn't make it right especially when we have the responsibility of patient safety as a major component. No doubt the large multiples have hired actuaries, statisticians and risk assessors to work out the chances of a major incident and if the compensation payout will be less than money saved cutting staff levels over the years, and if it is, they will continue down this line.

All those starry eyed P1's out there, work hard, stand out, network, yada yada yada and all the rest of the BS you hear on here.

You may be fortunate and get a job in six years time but you will just be replacing the 3rd generation of cannon fodder that they burn out every two years, but never forget that you are "following the dream".

 

[lisinopril]

Pretty sure he is in a saturated place as well. Something like 5 pharmacy schools.

I am sure he won't tell 'cuz there will be tons of pharmacists browsing this forum jack his mailbox with "can you hook me up with a job there?"

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Whatever!!!!!!!! You may secure a job, albeit in Timbuktu, however you didn't study 6-8 years for a phoney doctorate just to be treated like a bitch from corporate America.

And don't tell me "all industries/professions are like this". This is the most overused cliche on this forum. Just because "all professions" are the same doesn't make it right especially when we have the responsibility of patient safety as a major component. No doubt the large multiples have hired actuaries, statisticians and risk assessors to work out the chances of a major incident and if the compensation payout will be less than money saved cutting staff levels over the years, and if it is, they will continue down this line.

All those starry eyed P1's out there, work hard, stand out, network, yada yada yada and all the rest of the BS you hear on here.

You may be fortunate and get a job in six years time but you will just be replacing the 3rd generation of cannon fodder that they burn out every two years, but never forget that you are "following the dream".

yup, 14 hr shifts without a lunch break..what other industries/professions are like this?

 

[Corpseman]

yup, 14 hr shifts without a lunch break..what other industries/professions are like this?

that pays $100k+? Not many others, if at all.

I am sure he won't tell 'cuz there will be tons of pharmacists browsing this forum jack his mailbox with "can you hook me up with a job there?"

Not that hard to figure out where he is from.

And don't tell me "all industries/professions are like this". This is the most overused cliche on this forum. Just because "all professions" are the same doesn't make it right especially when we have the responsibility of patient safety as a major component.

Actually this is the best logic, we are all the same. Make money for someone else.

You/we are not special.

 

[rxlea]

yup, 14 hr shifts without a lunch break..what other industries/professions are like this?

Many working class jobs are....but they don't get paid 6 figures... Just sayin'

 

[BMBiology]

Can we please stop comparing pharmacy to crappy jobs? Who the hell would spend 6-8 years in school and borrow 250-300 k in student loans, just so you can say, "well at least my job working condition is better than my friend's job who didn't even attend college and is not in debt".

 

[Corpseman]

Can we please stop comparing pharmacy to crappy jobs? Who the hell would spend 6-8 years in school and borrow 250-300 k in student loans, just so you can say, "well at least my job working condition is better than my friend's job who didn't even attend college and is not in debt".

Lol! I went to college, I am better than all of you working class citizens! *humph*


Very haughty taughty of you. Earn your keep just like the rest of humanity.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Can we please stop comparing pharmacy to crappy jobs? Who the hell would spend 6-8 years in school and borrow 250-300 k in student loans, just so you can say, "well at least my job working condition is better than my friend's job who didn't even attend college and is not in debt".[/Q

i have friends who only spent 4 years in school to get a BS degree and they make great money, work 40 hr weeks in great conditions and are happier than pharmacists who are slaving away and coming home pissed off.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

I secured an RPh gig easily enough. Many of my classmates did as well.

Quite interesting because the state you're in is regarded as very saturated (I'm assuming that you're working in the same state you graduated pharmacy school from).

 

[rxglasshalffull]

like what? they stand for 14 hrs without a break?