Incomplete Attempt Step 2 CS for an IMG

[HopeTo99]

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Hi everyone.
What happens if you get 'incomplete' on your score report for Step 2 CS? Let's say someone left the exam after the first encounter. Is it considered the same as 'failed attempt' in the eyes of PDs?
Any chances of getting ivs?
Thanks!

 

[Torquer]

If someone leaves without completing the exam, whether its classified as incomplete or fail is irrelevant; fact remains that they will still have to retake CS and pass to get ecfmg certification.

Sending an incomplete application is always risky and gets less calls.

 

[HopeTo99]

Thanks for replying. I meant if you manage to pass Step 2 CS on retaking it and get ur ECFMG certificate, will you be filtered out of programs because u have an incomplete 'attempt' at CS?

 

[CDI]

Thanks for replying. I meant if you manage to pass Step 2 CS on retaking it and get ur ECFMG certificate, will you be filtered out of programs because u have an incomplete 'attempt' at CS?

Any Step failure obviously raises a red flag. You don't need anyone here to tell you that.

That being said, it doesn't end all hope either. These are exams just like any other exams, not everyone passes the first time, and certainly not all IMGs. While you may not get as many interviews and it would be difficult getting the attention of most university programs you can still certainly pad your resume and get IVs at (fewer) community programs. Be sure to explain what happened in case you are asked.

 

[HopeTo99]

I was feeling unwell so I had to leave after the first encounter. I would hardly consider that a 'fail'. So university programs are out of the question?
Appreciate your response. Thanks.

 

[CDI]

I was feeling unwell so I had to leave after the first encounter. I would hardly consider that a 'fail'. So university programs are out of the question?
Appreciate your response. Thanks.

Doesn't matter if you consider it a fail or not. It's what your score report states. If it says its a fail, thats what it is. If it says "2nd attempt" or whatever, then that is what it is. Just be sure to explain it at the interview if asked. And clearly, no one said anything was out of the question, it's just makes it more difficult.

 

[HopeTo99]

Alright, thanks man. If, however, the score report says 'incomplete', would it change things?

 

[HopeTo99]

Nevermind. U gave me the answer I needed to hear. Thanks again.

 

[Syncity]

Nevermind. U gave me the answer I needed to hear. Thanks again.

http://www.usmle.org/bulletin/scores/

Sums it up - was your score reported as 'fail' or 'Incomplete'? If it's the former - appeal this.

 

[HopeTo99]

It was reported as 'Incomplete'.

 

[Syncity]

It was reported as 'Incomplete'.

Again, an 'incomplete' attempt is VERY different to a failed attempt and will be seen in light of the circumstances. It shouldn't make a difference to your applications - it happens to a few people. Keep the chin up.

Regarding the manner in which your post was received by the members of this forum, I wonder would it have been different had you not stated that you're an IMG.

 

[HopeTo99]

Haha. Yeah, what was I thinking? Posting this on SDN. Thanks. I was feeling down in the dumps because of that.

 

[Syncity]

Haha. Yeah, what was I thinking? Posting this on SDN. Thanks. I was feeling down in the dumps because of that.

The antipathy toward IMGs that exists among users of this forum is abhorrent, irrational, and I'm very surprised that it continues to go unnoticed by the Moderators.

I could point to countless threads where an IMG enters a conversation innocuously and is met with either overt disdain or passive agressive discouragement. From what I've seen, a lot of users should be ashamed of themselves and thankful for the anonymity this forum affords them.

I'm an Irish med student attending an Irish med school. Our schools accept a large number of American students each year. The US curriculum is entirely different to ours. That means we need to study a different curriculum, preparing in a very different manner. The vast majority of us end up trumping the US average. Yet, SDN users lead us to believe that we are, in some way, inferior or less competitive than US students.

I feel that we should be encouraging the doctor who graduated in 2000, has a wife and 3 kids and wants to take the USMLEs, not meeting them with unbridled discouragement.

I think this issue needs to be addressed. The fact that Moderators don't intervene on the issue suggests to me that SDN condones the behaviour. Moderators and those who feel such bitter resentment toward IMGs need to ask themselves certain questions.

 

[RadOnc04]

The antipathy toward IMGs that exists among users of this forum is abhorrent, irrational, and I'm very surprised that it continues to go unnoticed by the Moderators.

I could point to countless threads where an IMG enters a conversation innocuously and is met with either overt disdain or passive agressive discouragement. From what I've seen, a lot of users should be ashamed of themselves and thankful for the anonymity this forum affords them.

I'm an Irish med student attending an Irish med school. Our schools accept a large number of American students each year. The US curriculum is entirely different to ours. That means we need to study a different curriculum, preparing in a very different manner. The vast majority of us end up trumping the US average. Yet, SDN users lead us to believe that we are, in some way, inferior or less competitive than US students.

I feel that we should be encouraging the doctor who graduated in 2000, has a wife and 3 kids and wants to take the USMLEs, not meeting them with unbridled discouragement.

I think this issue needs to be addressed. The fact that Moderators don't intervene on the issue suggests to me that SDN condones the behaviour. Moderators and those who feel such bitter resentment toward IMGs need to ask themselves certain questions.

Seriously? I mean, I understand you want to defend IMGs. I think it is valuable to bring in international graduates into the US for residency because they bring a unique perspective.

However, the US curriculum does not "prepare us" for boards. In fact, in the majority of US med schools, very little focus is given to the boards in the first two years. You really are on your own to prepare for them.

I do not mind you saying you receive a quality education at an Iris medical school. But, I take issue with this "high and mighty" attitude you have that "we are, on average, better than a US medical student". This attitude makes you tough to sympathize with.

Finally, it's annoying to hear "we are so much better than you [US medical student]" but "we want to come train in the US for residency".

I always wonder: If your education is so phenomenal, why no stay there for post-graduate training? Why come to receive the "terrible" training we get in the US ? (if on average, our scores are so much lower?)

Finally, if people "look down" on your education it's their own ignorance. But, there is a bias, because I know of >1 student who could not get into a US medical school so therefore went overseas to an Iris Medical school (if you are wondering where the bias comes from).

 

[Syncity]

Seriously? I mean, I understand you want to defend IMGs. I think it is valuable to bring in international graduates into the US for residency because they bring a unique perspective.

However, the US curriculum does not "prepare us" for boards. In fact, in the majority of US med schools, very little focus is given to the boards in the first two years. You really are on your own to prepare for them.

I do not mind you saying you receive a quality education at an Iris medical school. But, I take issue with this "high and mighty" attitude you have that "we are, on average, better than a US medical student". This attitude makes you tough to sympathize with.

Finally, it's annoying to hear "we are so much better than you [US medical student]" but "we want to come train in the US for residency".

I always wonder: If your education is so phenomenal, why no stay there for post-graduate training? Why come to receive the "terrible" training we get in the US ? (if on average, our scores are so much lower?)

Finally, if people "look down" on your education it's their own ignorance. But, there is a bias, because I know of >1 student who could not get into a US medical school so therefore went overseas to an Iris Medical school (if you are wondering where the bias comes from).

You completely misperceived the sentiments I was attempting to convey in my post. I was far from taking a "high and mighty" stance or attempting to communicate that Irish medical students are better than American medical students. There's an enormous bias because only the top Irish students would tend to take the USMLEs (those in the bottom half of classes are pretty much forbidden from taking it), whereas every US student must take the USMLE - this creates a huge skew. I was referring to those on SDN who feel that, irrespective of what me may have achieved, we are inferior to US Medical Students in the eyes of PDs and all others.

I am extremely enthusiastic about the standard of training in the US - this is the very reason I want to go over there. I made no effort whatsoever to discredit it. I've worked within the system and it's brilliant.

I could point to ample threads demonstrating this anti-IMG attitude.

 

[CDI]

The antipathy toward IMGs that exists among users of this forum is abhorrent, irrational, and I'm very surprised that it continues to go unnoticed by the Moderators.

I could point to countless threads where an IMG enters a conversation innocuously and is met with either overt disdain or passive agressive discouragement. From what I've seen, a lot of users should be ashamed of themselves and thankful for the anonymity this forum affords them.

I'm an Irish med student attending an Irish med school. Our schools accept a large number of American students each year. The US curriculum is entirely different to ours. That means we need to study a different curriculum, preparing in a very different manner. The vast majority of us end up trumping the US average. Yet, SDN users lead us to believe that we are, in some way, inferior or less competitive than US students.

I feel that we should be encouraging the doctor who graduated in 2000, has a wife and 3 kids and wants to take the USMLEs, not meeting them with unbridled discouragement.

I think this issue needs to be addressed. The fact that Moderators don't intervene on the issue suggests to me that SDN condones the behaviour. Moderators and those who feel such bitter resentment toward IMGs need to ask themselves certain questions.

Strange that you felt like those were harsh words. The question received the appropriate response. It seemed more like they were fishing for an "It's okay, everyone will look the other way and it'll all be roses and rainbows." If there is a filter that says "Passed on 1st attempt." The app won't even be looked at, not difficult to understand that an incomplete =/= pass.

The responses have nothing to do with AMG vs. IMG. Even an AMG who has an incomplete OR fail on their Steps would still have to ultimately answer about it if asked. And who knows, they may never get asked at all.

Btw, I'm an IMG myself.

 

[HopeTo99]

I am extremely enthusiastic about the standard of training in the US - this is the very reason I want to go over there. I made no effort whatsoever to discredit it. I've worked within the system and it's brilliant.

This.

 

[HopeTo99]

Strange that you felt like those were harsh words. The question received the appropriate response. It seemed more like they were fishing for an "It's okay, everyone will look the other way and it'll all be roses and rainbows." If there is a filter that says "Passed on 1st attempt." The app won't even be looked at, not difficult to understand that an incomplete =/= pass.

The responses have nothing to do with AMG vs. IMG. Even an AMG who has an incomplete OR fail on their Steps would still have to ultimately answer about it if asked. And who knows, they may never get asked at all.

Btw, I'm an IMG myself.

Wow, brutal honesty. I just wanted an honest answer, that's all. Thanks. I wasn't planning on applying anyway. Too much competition nowadays. It's been a great run though - that I am thankful for.

 

[Syncity]

Strange that you felt like those were harsh words. The question received the appropriate response. It seemed more like they were fishing for an "It's okay, everyone will look the other way and it'll all be roses and rainbows." If there is a filter that says "Passed on 1st attempt." The app won't even be looked at, not difficult to understand that an incomplete =/= pass.

The responses have nothing to do with AMG vs. IMG. Even an AMG who has an incomplete OR fail on their Steps would still have to ultimately answer about it if asked. And who knows, they may never get asked at all.

Btw, I'm an IMG myself.

The filters are for those who failed their first attempt. With an 'incomplete' attempt, the OP won't be subject to these filters.

 

[CDI]

The filters are for those who failed their first attempt. With an 'incomplete' attempt, the OP won't be subject to these filters.

I see. I was not aware that attempts means fails, in this case. Thanks for clearing that up.

My intent was not to discourage or say that they can't make it. If anyone understands how tough it is for IMGs its me. Even with a fail (or an incomplete, whatever) I would have still encouraged them to try and push forward. At the same time, if you put the app next to someone who passed everything on first "try" then I would only assume that the question would come up as to what happen. If it was that the person was sick on that day and couldnt go forth, than that's that.

 

[Syncity]

Seriously? I mean, I understand you want to defend IMGs. I think it is valuable to bring in international graduates into the US for residency because they bring a unique perspective.

However, the US curriculum does not "prepare us" for boards. In fact, in the majority of US med schools, very little focus is given to the boards in the first two years. You really are on your own to prepare for them.

I do not mind you saying you receive a quality education at an Iris medical school. But, I take issue with this "high and mighty" attitude you have that "we are, on average, better than a US medical student". This attitude makes you tough to sympathize with.

Finally, it's annoying to hear "we are so much better than you [US medical student]" but "we want to come train in the US for residency".

I always wonder: If your education is so phenomenal, why no stay there for post-graduate training? Why come to receive the "terrible" training we get in the US ? (if on average, our scores are so much lower?)

Finally, if people "look down" on your education it's their own ignorance. But, there is a bias, because I know of >1 student who could not get into a US medical school so therefore went overseas to an Iris Medical school (if you are wondering where the bias comes from).

If you are going to quote me in future, please limit quotation marks to what I actually said, not what you think I might have meant.

 

[RadOnc04]

-

 

[Syncity]

You completely misperceived the sentiments I was attempting to convey in my post. I was far from taking a "high and mighty" stance or attempting to communicate that Irish medical students are better than American medical students. There's an enormous bias because only the top Irish students would tend to take the USMLEs (those in the bottom half of classes are pretty much forbidden from taking it), whereas every US student must take the USMLE - this creates a huge skew. I was referring to those on SDN who feel that, irrespective of what me may have achieved, we are inferior to US Medical Students in the eyes of PDs and all others.

I am extremely enthusiastic about the standard of training in the US - this is the very reason I want to go over there. I made no effort whatsoever to discredit it. I've worked within the system and it's brilliant.

I could point to ample threads demonstrating this anti-IMG attitude.

I have also emboldened my more-than-adequate explanation as to why I feel this is the case for your perusal.

However, we're getting off the topic - the marked difference between an 'incomplete' attempt and a 'fail'.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I have also emboldened my more-than-adequate explanation as to why I feel this is the case for your perusal.

However, we're getting off the topic - the marked difference between an 'incomplete' attempt and a 'fail'.

A fail obviously is very detrimental

At the very, very best an incomplete is neutral to your application. More than likely it is going to hinder your ability to get interviews. Of course it will be no where near as severe as a fail on the application. You will have to explain why you have an incomplete at interviews.

 

[Syncity]

A fail obviously is very detrimental

At the very, very best an incomplete is neutral to your application. More than likely it is going to hinder your ability to get interviews. Of course it will be no where near as severe as a fail on the application. You will have to explain why you have an incomplete at interviews.

I think that sums it up nicely - certain programs may well see this as a negative, but I'd be optimistic that the majority would see it as a neutral factor, provided the OP can pass his repeat attempt.

It's quite apparent that the OP above had extenuating circumstances (as anyone in their right mind would to walk out on a $1,300 exam without a good reason). Anyway, I'm basing this purely on opinion rather than any hard evidence.