Increase in Anesthesiology competitiveness

[drnk12]

A lot of extra apps went out this year, did the number of interviews also increase, or can we feel safe if we have a fair amount of interviews that we have an okay chance at matching (img asking)

Like did the competitive nature result in a harder time to acquire interviews, or matching in general?

Thanks

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[Ready_User_1]

Won't know until the NRMP post the data. Just worry about the things you can control for now.

 

[CubsDynasty]

My former program traditionally got 60 applications for 1 position, and this number has been increasing the past few years. I heard that this year that number jumped up to 125:1. This was reflected by the caliber of candidates that interviewed being noticeably stronger than years prior. Seems all of the above is true that more people are applying, applying to more programs, attending more interviews, and in general stronger applicants that years prior.

 

[urge]

My former program traditionally got 60 applications for 1 position, and this number has been increasing the past few years. I heard that this year that number jumped up to 125:1. This was reflected by the caliber of candidates that interviewed being noticeably stronger than years prior. Seems all of the above is true that more people are applying, applying to more programs, attending more interviews, and in general stronger applicants that years prior.

Scores keep going up with time. But I'm seeing an ever increasing amount of stupid mistakes that would have never been dreamed of 10 years ago. Which leads me to conclude that scores have been inflated when the actual quality of the applicants has gone down.

 

[Modanq]

Apps are up on our side this year. The one disadvantage Anesthesiologists have faced that makes med students pause are CRNAs but if you look at the landscape EM, IM, and most other non surgical fields are struggling hard with midlevel encroachment. Close friend in dermatology who left to McKinsey Consulting is telling me most dermatology groups are now heavy midlevel APP, PA. Just take a look over at the EM thread to see what I am referring to. Most of the RNs and PAs I know actually are thinking twice about CRNA because it pigeon holes them into outpatient stable anesthetics. Other areas allows job switches from CT surgery PA one year, to EM PA then next, and then to outpatient dermatology PA for funzy. I think since we have been "dealing" with the issue long enough we have some safety margin in career choice.

 

[anbuitachi]

My former program traditionally got 60 applications for 1 position, and this number has been increasing the past few years. I heard that this year that number jumped up to 125:1. This was reflected by the caliber of candidates that interviewed being noticeably stronger than years prior. Seems all of the above is true that more people are applying, applying to more programs, attending more interviews, and in general stronger applicants that years prior.

it doesn't have to be that the # of Med students applying increased by all that much, it could just be more people are applying to more programs. if that is the case, in the end, even if the program is seeing very competitive applications, each med student will only choose 1 spot, and the rank system will work it out

 

[CopaceticOne]

it doesn't have to be that the # of Med students applying increased by all that much, it could just be more people are applying to more programs. if that is the case, in the end, even if the program is seeing very competitive applications, each med student will only choose 1 spot, and the rank system will work it out

Per the ERAS statistics for Anes: number of unique applicants, applications per applicant, and applications per program are all up.

ERAS Statistics - ERAS - Services - AAMC

 

[dchz]

Scores keep going up with time. But I'm seeing an ever increasing amount of stupid mistakes that would have never been dreamed of 10 years ago. Which leads me to conclude that scores have been inflated when the actual quality of the applicants has gone down.

Or

is it a systems issue?

 

[anbuitachi]

Per the ERAS statistics for Anes: number of unique applicants, applications per applicant, and applications per program are all up.

ERAS Statistics - ERAS - Services - AAMC

are we looking at different things? i literally clicked your link and clicked anesthesiology

ERAS 2014 to 2018
Total 3,699 3,730 3,793 3,653 3,671

2018 is LOWER than every year in the past 5 years except 2017.
Meanwhile average # of applications PER applicant has gone up year after year.
so look like my guess was correct

Scores keep going up with time. But I'm seeing an ever increasing amount of stupid mistakes that would have never been dreamed of 10 years ago. Which leads me to conclude that scores have been inflated when the actual quality of the applicants has gone down.

mistakes for what??

 

[CopaceticOne]

are we looking at different things? i literally clicked your link and clicked anesthesiology

Interesting. I was referencing the preliminary data link on that page: https://www.aamc.org/download/358760/data/residency.xlsx

I have no clue why the two sets of data vary so much.

 

[anbuitachi]

Interesting. I was referencing the preliminary data link on that page: https://www.aamc.org/download/358760/data/residency.xlsx

I have no clue why the two sets of data vary so much.

Oh i see. yea no idea why. its a huge difference. the total # in the historical is much larger than the preliminary fo rsome reaosn

 

[<(^_^)>]

Oh i see. yea no idea why. its a huge difference. the total # in the historical is much larger than the preliminary fo rsome reaosn

On mobile so I can’t see the source well, but there definitely aren’t 3700 applicants for anesthesia. If there were it would be more competitive than derm, with fewer than 50% of applicants securing a residency slot (there are about 1700 positions)

 

[deleted171991]

On mobile so I can’t see the source well, but there definitely aren’t 3700 applicants for anesthesia. If there were it would be more competitive than derm, with fewer than 50% of applicants securing a residency slot (there are about 1700 positions)

Oh, but there are 3700 applicants. Look at the break down. There are 1400 IMGs in the package (which means it's not so competitive).

https://www.aamc.org/download/358762/data/anesthesiology.pdf

This is Derm, by the way:
https://www.aamc.org/download/358766/data/derm.pdf

My guess is that a number of American grads use anesthesia as a backup plan.

 

[nimbus]

I think it’s interesting how the numbers don’t change much year to year.

 

[<(^_^)>]

Oh, but there are 3700 applicants. Look at the break down. There are 1400 IMGs in the package (which means it's not so competitive).

https://www.aamc.org/download/358762/data/anesthesiology.pdf

This is Derm, by the way:
https://www.aamc.org/download/358766/data/derm.pdf

My guess is that a number of American grads use anesthesia as a backup plan.

Sure, you can guess whatever you like, however it’s just speculation. Interest is way up among US graduates of medical schools, something that almost seems to bother you.

 

[deleted171991]

Sure, you can guess whatever you like, however it’s just speculation. Interest is way up among US graduates of medical schools, something that almost seems to bother you.

Look at my signature. Human stupidity is so widespread that it has stopped bothering me.

Btw, if I were to bet, the increase is probably due to the new US medical schools. Those students are seen as just a tad better than IMGs, hence derm is out for them. 😉

 

[anbuitachi]

Sure, you can guess whatever you like, however it’s just speculation. Interest is way up among US graduates of medical schools, something that almost seems to bother you.

well according to one of the official links above... it hasn't.

 

[<(^_^)>]

Look at my signature. Human stupidity is so widespread that it has stopped bothering me.

Again I’m on mobile, but I can’t think of anyone but a future applicant being bothered that anesthesiology is becoming more competitive.

 

[nimbus]

Sure, you can guess whatever you like, however it’s just speculation. Interest is way up among US graduates of medical schools, something that almost seems to bother you.

Not sure why you continue to perpetuate this myth after being presented with data to the contrary. I’m on mobile too and the links come through just fine.

 

[anbuitachi]

Interesting. I was referencing the preliminary data link on that page: https://www.aamc.org/download/358760/data/residency.xlsx

I have no clue why the two sets of data vary so much.

So the data i looked at matches with the individual yearly data at the bottom of that page so i think the historical datas are correct. The excel sheet says data as of January. So it's possible that it's incomplete? Maybe that's why it's prelim data for each year instead of final data

 

[deleted171991]

Look at how many new medical schools have been established in the last 5-10 years: List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia .

 

[deleted171991]

Again I’m on mobile, but I can’t think of anyone but a future applicant being bothered that anesthesiology is becoming more competitive.

We really don't care about how many suckers apply to enter the sausage maker, just how many leave it at the end of the residency. There will be a time, soon, when many anesthesiologists will become either unemployed or work for peanuts or in BFE.

 

[<(^_^)>]

Not sure why you continue to perpetuate this myth after being presented with data to the contrary. I’m on mobile too and the links come through just fine.

His signature doesn’t, and again per one source apps have gone up significantly, and that data source also better reflects other trends (psych, number of applications per applicant etc) which the other source doesn’t for some reason.

Anyway, per this other link, IMGs down, USGs up, so same thing actually.

Anecdotally as an applicant this cycle (on the discord as well) everyone agrees applications are way up this cycle per their program directors. Some even are sending out emails to that effect (20% more than last year and not enough slots etc,) now some of this is mediated by increased apps per applicant of course, but some is also likely mediated by more applicants.

 

[deleted171991]

His signature doesn’t, and again per one source apps have gone up significantly, and that data source also better reflects other trends (psych, number of applications per applicant etc) which the other source doesn’t for some reason.

Anyway, per this other link, IMGs down, USGs up, so same thing actually.

Anecdotally as an applicant this cycle (on the discord as well) everyone agrees applications are way up this cycle per their program directors. Some even are sending out emails to that effect (20% more than last year and not enough slots etc,) now some of this is mediated by increased apps per applicant of course, but some is also likely mediated by more applicants.

One reason for the increase in applications is that USMGs are soiling their pants that they won't match (for the first times in history, when including the recent years). Which used to be almost impossible. Now we hear stories of people not matching and giving up medicine, even on this forum.

The other reason, as mentioned, is the significant increase in the number of American graduates. There have been like 20 new medical schools started in the last 10 years.

Btw, this is my signature:
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin

 

[nimbus]

His signature doesn’t, and again per one source apps have gone up significantly, and that data source also better reflects other trends (psych, number of applications per applicant etc) which the other source doesn’t for some reason.

Anyway, per this other link, IMGs down, USGs up, so same thing actually.

Anecdotally as an applicant this cycle (on the discord as well) everyone agrees applications are way up this cycle per their program directors. Some even are sending out emails to that effect (20% more than last year and not enough slots etc,) now some of this is mediated by increased apps per applicant of course, but some is also likely mediated by more applicants.

The trend in the past looks like a similar number of applicants (2300-2400) submitting more applications going from an average of 29 to 35 applications per applicant. We won’t really know until 2019 match data is released.