Increase in apps

[BadVB750]

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So, I have been calling a few of the programs that I haven't heard from and was surprised to hear applications are up this year. A few programs said that they have had about 60 to 70 more applications then previous years. Figures the year we apply EM gets more competitive.

 

[polygonal]

Is it the "SDN effect?" "Can I get an EM spot with only a 260?"

It seems like a lot of people (including me) have applied to way too many places. I guess it will equal out a little as people start to cancel some.

 

[SolidGold]

Is it the "SDN effect?" "Can I get an EM spot with only a 260?"

It seems like a lot of people (including me) have applied to way too many places. I guess it will equal out a little as people start to cancel some.

lol, i was thinking the same thing. i applied to more than i was told to because people on sdn freaked me out.

 

[EctopicFetus]

i doubt it changed that much. post match we will see. Dont forget there are also more spots this yr vs last yr.

 

[DocChez]

Certainly post-match stats will clarify this matter, but I get the sense that the number of applications as well as applicants are both up this year.

At my medical school, we went from 4 last year to 10 this year, which now accounts for 10% of our graduating class. I thought this might just be a local phenomenon, but while I was on an EM away rotation back in October there were visiting students (including myself) representing a total of 7 schools, plus students from the home institution, and all were reporting an increase in the number of students going into EM at their institution. The supposed number of EM applicants at several of those schools accounted for approaching and in upwards of 10% of that school's graduating senior class as well.

A few of my oh so polite rejection letters have made reference to the increased number of applicants this year (though they may have just been trying to soften the blow). However, in talking to the PD at my home program on Monday, she mentioned that we had a significant increase in applications over last year and she had heard that some institutions had received up to 100 more applications this year than they are used to.

Finally, our advisory deans here sent out an e-mail yesterday asking us 4th years to send them an e-mail to catch them up on how our application process was going (where we'd applied, who we'd heard from, how many interviews we have, etc.). In the e-mail our Associate Dean of Undergraduate Medical Education took time specifically to reference only one specialty (EM), noting "We are hearing that this year the number of applications to Emergency Medicine programs is very high and this may influence options for students in this field."

I figure if these sort of rumblings are making back to the AD level (especially considering they all recently convened in Seattle for the AAMC Annual Meeting), there has to be some merit to the rumors.

Have you more of guys been hearing the same thing? Any ideas as to why the surge of EM applications this year or are we just experience the normal ebb and flow that any specialty typically experiences? Are the applicants in general stronger or is the field just more saturated? I'm particularly intrigued to hear the opinions of those of you on the other side of this process who might have some insight (attendings, residents, program directors *cough* BKN please weigh in *cough*).

 

[EctopicFetus]

wow. well good luck. im guessing as always most applicants will be fine.

good luck

 

[Dr. Will]

Sure sounds like there are more apps this year. I've tried to switch around some interview dates, but haven't had much luck to pretty much everything already being filled. It increases the anxiety level a little.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Sure sounds like there are more apps this year. I've tried to switch around some interview dates, but haven't had much luck to pretty much everything already being filled. It increases the anxiety level a little.

No different last yr. Heck I waited 2 days to schedule an interview and I got there are no more spots want to be put on the waiting list?

 

[BKN]

Certainly post-match stats will clarify this matter, but I get the sense that the number of applications as well as applicants are both up this year.

At my medical school, we went from 4 last year to 10 this year, which now accounts for 10% of our graduating class. I thought this might just be a local phenomenon, but while I was on an EM away rotation back in October there were visiting students (including myself) representing a total of 7 schools, plus students from the home institution, and all were reporting an increase in the number of students going into EM at their institution. The supposed number of EM applicants at several of those schools accounted for approaching and in upwards of 10% of that school's graduating senior class as well.

A few of my oh so polite rejection letters have made reference to the increased number of applicants this year (though they may have just been trying to soften the blow). However, in talking to the PD at my home program on Monday, she mentioned that we had a significant increase in applications over last year and she had heard that some institutions had received up to 100 more applications this year than they are used to.

Finally, our advisory deans here sent out an e-mail yesterday asking us 4th years to send them an e-mail to catch them up on how our application process was going (where we'd applied, who we'd heard from, how many interviews we have, etc.). In the e-mail our Associate Dean of Undergraduate Medical Education took time specifically to reference only one specialty (EM), noting "We are hearing that this year the number of applications to Emergency Medicine programs is very high and this may influence options for students in this field."

I figure if these sort of rumblings are making back to the AD level (especially considering they all recently convened in Seattle for the AAMC Annual Meeting), there has to be some merit to the rumors.

Have you more of guys been hearing the same thing? Any ideas as to why the surge of EM applications this year or are we just experience the normal ebb and flow that any specialty typically experiences? Are the applicants in general stronger or is the field just more saturated? I'm particularly intrigued to hear the opinions of those of you on the other side of this process who might have some insight (attendings, residents, program directors *cough* BKN please weigh in *cough*).

I've seen a few more applications than last year, but certainly not 100. On the other hand we're a smaller program in the desert so our application pool has always been smaller than better known programs. I do have the impression that the pool is academically stronger than usual but that might be a *cough* "local SDN effect" 😉

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think so BKN... I think so.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I always wonder about this stuff too. But if you look at that "Charting Outcomes in the Match" it says that in 2005 there were about 1100 US senior EM applicants compared to...

1100 FM
965 Gas
800 OB/Gyn
800 Rads
1500 Gen Surg!

While it seems that everyone around me wants to do EM, last year it looks like more people actually applied for General Surgery. EM applications might be on the rise, but from where I'm sitting it still seems to be a tier below IM, Peds, FP in terms of total applicants and more on par with stuff that seems really "specialized" like OB and Gas...

 

[MightyShorty]

EM applications might be on the rise, but from where I'm sitting it still seems to be a tier below IM, Peds, FP in terms of total applicants and more on par with stuff that seems really "specialized" like OB and Gas...

I think it'll be more useful to have applicants:spot ratio. IM, Peds, Gen surg (I don't know about FP) all have way more positions than EM. I would be real worried if there are more EM than IM/Gen surg applicants - I mean, when I get old, I want to have all the IM specialists take care of my medical issues and surgeons to take out whatever I'm doomed for 😀

 

[NinerNiner999]

Here at Hopkins, out of a class of 120, 21 people are hoping to match in EM😱

 

[streetdoc]

7-8 out of 70 want EM down here in SC. That's about par for the last couple of years...maybe even a bit on the low side.
streetdoc

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think it'll be more useful to have applicants:spot ratio. IM, Peds, Gen surg (I don't know about FP) all have way more positions than EM. I would be real worried if there are more EM than IM/Gen surg applicants - I mean, when I get old, I want to have all the IM specialists take care of my medical issues and surgeons to take out whatever I'm doomed for 😀

FYI there are about as many categorical Surg spots as there are EM spots..

The surg prelim makes it look otherwise.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I guess the big question is whether or not EM residencies are going to keep opening up and expanding or if the field is going to become one in which a bunch of people fail to match...

 

[seldomseen]

Maybe others could state what percentage of their class is pursuing EM this year, to see if any trend of increase is occuring:

3 out of 20 here. About the same over the past two years.

seldom

 

[futureEM]

.

 

[nocallaochicas]

Maybe others could state what percentage of their class is pursuing EM this year, to see if any trend of increase is occuring:

3 out of 20 here. About the same over the past two years.

seldom

Seldom - maybe I am misreading, but are you saying you have 20 students in you class? Are you at Mayo?

And acutally, I am mostly posting a response becuase I wanna know if you are making an Abbey reference with that name. Someone else here goes by Hayduke.

ncc

 

[ziffy 850]

WELL, I've only gotten 5 interviews and I applied to 50 plus programs. Of those five, 1 is a courtesy at which I don't have a prayer (honored rotation), but I don't have the numbers to back up my clinicals. With applications up and my HORRIBLE scores-it is not looking good for a match. So, what do I do? Work for an insurance company?

If I do a preliminary year, does that screw my chances matching to EM next year? What happens with ERAS?

Help

 

[seldomseen]

Seldom - maybe I am misreading, but are you saying you have 20 students in you class? Are you at Mayo?

And acutally, I am mostly posting a response becuase I wanna know if you are making an Abbey reference with that name. Someone else here goes by Hayduke.

ncc

Yep, 20 in my class, it's actually very nice. We usually average between 19-27 per graduating class, so 20 is a little on the low end.

Not mayo either, rather a directional campus (i guess) of a large state school. Most of us are MD/Phds (15 out of the 20?). We have about 170 MD/PhDs on campus, and graduating class size varies depending on how many of us actually get done with the PhD (as well as how many normal med students matriculate).

Yeah, i'm a big fan of abbey. Noticed hayduke around, but don't know him. Now we just need a Doc Sarvis or Bonnie (although i think he has a lot better books than TMWG).

 

[Sweet Tea]

Here at Hopkins, out of a class of 120, 21 people are hoping to match in EM😱

12 out of my class of 56 want to do EM here. All the cool kids are doing it. 😉

 

[Hayduke]

Noticed hayduke around, but don't know him.

Ahh but you will. You will!!

Chemicals Chemicals I need chemicals.

 

[Hayduke]

17-20 out of my class of 110. This is a big jump for my school. Our EM interest group maybe made it look a little too good.

I am wondering how I should respond to this increase in apps. Does the increased population of applicants skew the '10-and-your-in' rule?

Addled applicant logic follows here:
Given the historical emphasis of residencies to weigh more of the package than simply board scores, will programs interview more applicants in an effort to see deeper into the pile?
Or, are the number of slots fairly rigid resulting in a larger number of folks rejected prior to interview?

 

[deleted52758]

actually application numbers are down at my institution, which is a major urban 2-4 program (cook county). it may be because 2-4 programs are getting more unpopular, despite the great reputation that my program has.

 

[southerndoc]

We received 150 more apps this year than last year.

 

[la gringa]

don't tell the good ole people of NC, sweet tea.... EM isn't considered primary care! ECU likes to brag about their primary care %...

 

[ispic]

Hi,

It seems about right with the upsurge in EM. One of my interviewers mentioned the same thing on Monday - that apps are definitely up this year. Down here at U of A, the numbers applying have somewhat increased a little bit. I figure that there are about 15+ ppl applying in my class (~130), maybe higher. There is a little disconnect between the people in Tucson vs. Phoenix, so I don't really know the total. The applications from my class however, have been up compared to recent years (about 5 - 10 usually apply and successfully match).

 

[StudentDoc327]

I bet its gonna be the same or just a little higher when the data is released... i mean Anesthesia is definitely going way up this year and gen surg will probably remain extremely competitive like last year. If EM is going up drasticaly as well, then what is going down? I cant imagine primary care to be any lower than it already is. I doubt its Derm, optho, or the surgical subspecialties. Radiology maybe?

 

[EctopicFetus]

actually application numbers are down at my institution, which is a major urban 2-4 program (cook county). it may be because 2-4 programs are getting more unpopular, despite the great reputation that my program has.

cook does rock but why do 4 if you can do 3.. Just my 2 cents.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Hi,

It seems about right with the upsurge in EM. One of my interviewers mentioned the same thing on Monday - that apps are definitely up this year. Down here at U of A, the numbers applying have somewhat increased a little bit. I figure that there are about 15+ ppl applying in my class (~130), maybe higher. There is a little disconnect between the people in Tucson vs. Phoenix, so I don't really know the total. The applications from my class however, have been up compared to recent years (about 5 - 10 usually apply and successfully match).

I can say that we may (may) be expanding our 1st yr class by 2. Apps are up here as well. I just saw the list of those invited to interview. Lets just say we are interviewing between 6 and 7 people per spot.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

Out of my class of about 130 people, I am only aware of 4 of us that are applying. We have a three way split campus so there could be a lonely soul out there I am unaware of; but I have certainly done lots of scouting through friends at our other campuses.

That is about average for our school; over the past two years I recall 5 matching last year and 4 the year before that. I have no idea if there was anyone else that wanted EM and didnt match....

 

[Dr. Will]

actually application numbers are down at my institution, which is a major urban 2-4 program (cook county). it may be because 2-4 programs are getting more unpopular, despite the great reputation that my program has.

Talking to the other applicants at my interview today, about half of them said they only applied to 3 year programs. Looking at my list, it's about half and half. But I mainly based my decision on the programs themselves, regardless of years required to complete them.

And out of my class of about 185 or so, about 20 or so are planning on EM.

 

[Farbar]

9 out of 150 in my class. That is up by 6/150 last year.

 

[Sweet Tea]

don't tell the good ole people of NC, sweet tea.... EM isn't considered primary care! ECU likes to brag about their primary care %...

Oh, believe me, I'm well aware of the administration's disappointment in our class. They never liked our class too much too begin with.

I'm okay with that. Truth is, I'd be a decent primary care physician, but I'd be a damn fine EP and have no regrets about my decision.

 

[8744]

Applications are up because the secret is out that most other specialties hugely suck. I can't imagine doing anything else other than EM. A lot of the medicine guys here, for example, as they churn out their admissions as the scut-oxen that they are look wistfully at the EM residents and say, "You guys so totally rule."

Oh, and they're up because of the increasing popularity of my humble and oh-so-sassy blog.

 

[EctopicFetus]

i would be lying if I hadnt at some point thought...

"man why not do specialty x, I could make 100K per yr more than EM (I come from very very humble beginnings) and my wife could stay home with the kids and i could have a great life."

Fact check.. their lives stink. I love em..

BTW the ortho people are pretty cool but the content kind of stinks.

 

[goblue1]

.....we went from 15/190 to 5/190 this year. I guess everyone wants to do radiology.

 

[coldcoldworld]

Our school seems up this year too. Not sure of exact numbers but I would probably say we're pushing 40 out of about 265 in the class. Then again, we have always been kind of an EM-mill.

 

[DocChez]

On my interview at Jacobi the PD noted that the had had an increase in the number of apps from last year of about 150. This may be due in part to their recent switch from a 2-4 to a 1-4 format last year, but numbers are still way up for them.

 

[EMDrMoe]

WELL, I've only gotten 5 interviews and I applied to 50 plus programs. Of those five, 1 is a courtesy at which I don't have a prayer (honored rotation), but I don't have the numbers to back up my clinicals. With applications up and my HORRIBLE scores-it is not looking good for a match. So, what do I do? Work for an insurance company?

If I do a preliminary year, does that screw my chances matching to EM next year? What happens with ERAS?

Help

Hi there. You may want to consider applying to more programs, depending on what programs you applied to - you are getting SOME interviews, so it stands to reason that if you applied to more, you'd get more. Did you take Step 2 if your step 1 score was bad? Also, have you thought about a back up specialty versus waiting to do EM (if it's the dream, it's the dream though).👍

 

[ziffy 850]

so, if the apps are up as seems to be the case, what do you think will happen with the scramble-there may be NO or only a few spots?

Maybe there aren't more applicants, maybe it's just that everyone's applying to more spots??

 

[BadVB750]

so, if the apps are up as seems to be the case, what do you think will happen with the scramble-there may be NO or only a few spots?

Maybe there aren't more applicants, maybe it's just that everyone's applying to more spots??

This could be the case, a lot of students have told me they are going on 15 interviews. Sometimes this freaks me out cause I only plan on doing 10; mainly cause I only have 10 invites . I think to many people are reading SDN and freaking themselves out. *RAISE HAND* I'm BadVB750 and I'm a SDN addict.

 

[USCDiver]

12 out of my class of 56 want to do EM here. All the cool kids are doing it. 😉

If 12 are interested, why did we only interview (I think) 9? Are some not interested in staying here?

 

[Sweet Tea]

If 12 are interested, why did we only interview (I think) 9? Are some not interested in staying here?

I know of 1 (maybe 2) who was on an away rotation when the ECU dates were offered. I think they're interviewing later. Not sure about the other.

 

[la gringa]

i for one didn't interview at my home institution. had um, pretty much zero interest in staying there for residency. mostly had to do with the small city it's in. the smallest place i interviewed was hmmm, whichever is smaller out of indy and nashville. i didn't see the point of wasting their time and mine.