India Med School Then US Research/Practice?

[graydock11]

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Hi everyone,

I'm a junior in high school right now and regardless of the amount of research I do on the topic, it seems that there's always a portion of the medical school process that I'm missing. So I wanted to know once and for all what my options are as far as medical school goes.

Here's my situation:
I have two options. First, is the typical US program, undergraduate, medical school, residency, then the USMLE. I'm wondering how long that takes on average. Many of my parent's friends that I ask all give different estimates, anywhere for 10 years to 14. I'd like to know what the average time in the program is.

My other option is (as an Indian American), I might be able to go to Medical School in India, completely skipping the undergraduate portion of my schooling and going directly into medical school. But after that, I'm not sure what I have to do get research opportunities or my license here. If I do my residency in India to be licensed there, do I also have to complete a residency here? What is the process of completing my schooling so that I have the ability to research and practice in the United States if I go to Medical School in India?

Finally, are my research and business opportunities diminished if I attend Medical School in India? My goal is to take research opportunities in the long run at universities, companies etc.

If I could get a comparison as to how my chances in the future would look in terms of research if I went to Med School in the US versus in India that would be awesome. Thanks!

Thanks in Advance,
graydock

 

[Snoopy2006]

Americans going to foreign medical schools to "save time" is extremely short-sighted. Most of these people are getting poor advice from people around them who don't understand the current residency picture.

People often think you can save 3 years (8 years vs 5) going to India or another foreign medical school. This is awful logic, because:

1) Foreign grads spend 1-2 years after graduation simply studying for and taking the USMLEs, and then applying and interviewing (whereas US grads get Steps 1/2 and the application cycle completed during medical school). That 3 year advantage gets cut down to nothing quickly.

2) You'll potentially waste more time when you spend 5 years on a foreign medical school and fail to match. The match failure rates for International Medical Graduates will continue to rise as the # of US grads increase. While a US degree is no longer a guarantee of a residency spot, the match rates will be far higher coming from a US medical school.

3) In the best case scenario (you go to India, pass the Steps within a year, and match) - your future outlook will be severely diminished. IMGs typically match into certain specialties (IM, FM, psych, etc.) and the more competitive specialties are usually closed off to foreign grads. (And no, if you're in high school, you have no idea what field you'll want to pursue).

Even within the non-competitive specialties, the average IMG will have trouble matching to an academic institution. This is where the research is. Most IMGs end up at community programs, where the research is spare and limited in scope. The big projects and opportunities are at big academic centers that will be extremely difficult to get into as a foreign grad.

Going to India for medical school is a poor route that should only be undertaken if you cannot get into a US medical school. If research/academics are a priority for you, then doubly so.

 

[graydock11]

First of all, thanks so much for your reply.

Next, is it likely that I complete studying for the USMLE concurrently with Medical School then take the USMLE once I gain my degree, or do you know whether there are classes that I would still have to take?

Looking at the following link for match data (Specifically page 8 and 9) for 2014:
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2014.pdf
The match rate for U.S. IMGs is around 10 percent, correct? 2722 out of 25687 residencies filled?

And do you mean completely closed off or very hard to get in to as far as competitive specialities go?

Finally, do you know where I might be able to find match rates for research opportunities?

Thanks!

 

[Stagg737]

I would avoid foreign med school if you can. Not saying you won't get a great education, but your chances of practicing in the U.S. will be greatly diminished. Especially if you're shooting for a highly competitive residency here. It's not totally closed off, but unless you destroy the board exam and are near the top of your class, you probably won't get it. Especially since the AOA/ACGME merger will likely decrease the number of international students getting placement in U.S. residencies.

As for research, I'm not sure what you mean by match...you don't match into research opportunities. You either make connections with people and work in a lab under someone, or you write a proposal to the gov or a company and they give you a grant to do your own research. If you're talking about residencies that focus on research or encourage research, you'd have to figure our what residency programs are research oriented and look up the statistics for those individual program, which may not be released. If you want to do research though, you can do that pretty much anywhere if you're self-motivated.

 

[Instatewaiter]

You would be foolish to go to an indian medical school unless you couldn't get into a U.S. school

 

[graydock11]

Thanks for the replies.

I would avoid foreign med school if you can. Not saying you won't get a great education, but your chances of practicing in the U.S. will be greatly diminished. Especially if you're shooting for a highly competitive residency here. It's not totally closed off, but unless you destroy the board exam and are near the top of your class, you probably won't get it. Especially since the AOA/ACGME merger will likely decrease the number of international students getting placement in U.S. residencies.

Just wondering, are neurological residencies competitive?

 

[Stagg737]

General neurology, no. Neurosurgery is extremely competitive.

 

[Snoopy2006]

Next, is it likely that I complete studying for the USMLE concurrently with Medical School then take the USMLE once I gain my degree, or do you know whether there are classes that I would still have to take?

There are no required classes after you've graduated before you take the USMLE. But just about everyone takes time after graduation to study for the Steps. I've worked with many residents from India and other foreign medical schools, many of them exceptionally gifted, and every single one took months to years to study for and pass the Step exams. This is a test where a failure (or a low pass) virtually destroys your chances of ever practicing medicine in the US. It's not something people rush right after graduation in an effort to save time.

The Match is an organized process for attaining residency positions, created by the NRMP organization. There are no statistics for people getting research positions. As Stagg737 said, you apply for these on an individual basis.

Highly competitive specialties are virtually closed off, but it's not absolute. Occasionally a foreign grad with extensive experience, publications, and the right connections will match into a competitive field. But it's something that would be foolish to bank on.

Neurology is not competitive.

 

[caffeinemia]

Take it from someone who is in a competitive surgical specialty, we interviewed <10 foreign medical graduate applicants this year as a specialty. Those that were interviewed were typically Canadian or British.

As someone stated above, it's extremely shortsighted to even consider a foreign medical school as a first option. You will be saving no time at all and subjecting yourself to lowered odds of completing residency in the United States. If you are decided on shortening the time it takes to become a physician, you might consider a combined undergraduate/MD program that runs either 6 or 7 years instead of the traditional 8. If you want to learn more, PM me.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi everyone,

I'm a junior in high school right now and regardless of the amount of research I do on the topic, it seems that there's always a portion of the medical school process that I'm missing. So I wanted to know once and for all what my options are as far as medical school goes.

Here's my situation:
I have two options. First, is the typical US program, undergraduate, medical school, residency, then the USMLE. I'm wondering how long that takes on average. Many of my parent's friends that I ask all give different estimates, anywhere for 10 years to 14. I'd like to know what the average time in the program is.

My other option is (as an Indian American), I might be able to go to Medical School in India, completely skipping the undergraduate portion of my schooling and going directly into medical school. But after that, I'm not sure what I have to do get research opportunities or my license here. If I do my residency in India to be licensed there, do I also have to complete a residency here? What is the process of completing my schooling so that I have the ability to research and practice in the United States if I go to Medical School in India?

Finally, are my research and business opportunities diminished if I attend Medical School in India? My goal is to take research opportunities in the long run at universities, companies etc.

If I could get a comparison as to how my chances in the future would look in terms of research if I went to Med School in the US versus in India that would be awesome. Thanks!

Thanks in Advance,
graydock

Agree with everyone else that going out of the country for schooling decreases your odds to poor for ever practicing in the US and essentially closes doors on every competitive specialty. And probably ends up being a much longer path as you start adding those extra years to take the tests, match, get US externship experience and sometimes have to prove yourself in a dead end prelim, just to get some noncompetitive categorical spot. And things are only getting harder for the non-US schooled crowd each year as US enrollment is rising much faster than residency spots -- the squeeze is on.

I don't know if anyone addressed your initial timing question for staying in the US. Bear in mind that this isn't a race, and trying to save a year here or there in a 40 year career is a lot less important than keeping a good door open. Anyway in the US you do four years of college, during which you take your prereqs. Then four years of medical school. Then 3-7 years of residency, depending on the field. In many the first year is called your intern year, where you are more of a generalist (in medicine or surgery). Following residency, in many fields you might subspecialize and do a 1-2 year fellowship. So basically 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, 3-7 years of residency, and maybe another 1-2 years of fellowship. so we are talking 11-17 years of school and training after high school to be a fully trained doctor in the US. As an average let's say 13. Hope that helps. Not something you do on a whim.

 

[addy]

I just want to add-- I have a friend who is Indian who was pressured into doing this by his parents and their mentality. The number of years he 'saved' by going to India were wasted in taking tests and the obstacles involved with matching. One of his classmates became a General Surgeon and desparately wanted to come back to the US and is now doing a Peds residency. My friend ultimately gave up trying to come back and is now practicing somewhere near Bangalore. Don't do it, man. UNLESS you can get into AIIMS. Those guys don't seem to have a hard time going anywhere in the world, and rightfully so, but that's a stupid place to put all your eggs and even then I would think 300x before going that route. Plus, you'd still lose time trying to get back to the US, though, and have less research opportunities if you want academics, so...yeah.

You're better off applying BS/MD or Guaranteed med in the US if you're that worried about saving time.

Look, life is long. There's no rush. Enjoy the ride. If you're being pressured by your parents, tell them to eat a dosa and calm down--they can brag about you being a doctor at Diwali celebrations regardless of where you go and regardless of if you're an attending at the age of 32 vs 36. There's a reason EVERYONE here is saying don't do it; we're in the circle, we know better than your parents, regardless of what they say you should do (which, honestly, is probably just because the Patels' son went that route).

 

[Mad Jack]

Hi everyone,

I'm a junior in high school right now and regardless of the amount of research I do on the topic, it seems that there's always a portion of the medical school process that I'm missing. So I wanted to know once and for all what my options are as far as medical school goes.

Here's my situation:
I have two options. First, is the typical US program, undergraduate, medical school, residency, then the USMLE. I'm wondering how long that takes on average. Many of my parent's friends that I ask all give different estimates, anywhere for 10 years to 14. I'd like to know what the average time in the program is.

My other option is (as an Indian American), I might be able to go to Medical School in India, completely skipping the undergraduate portion of my schooling and going directly into medical school. But after that, I'm not sure what I have to do get research opportunities or my license here. If I do my residency in India to be licensed there, do I also have to complete a residency here? What is the process of completing my schooling so that I have the ability to research and practice in the United States if I go to Medical School in India?

Finally, are my research and business opportunities diminished if I attend Medical School in India? My goal is to take research opportunities in the long run at universities, companies etc.

If I could get a comparison as to how my chances in the future would look in terms of research if I went to Med School in the US versus in India that would be awesome. Thanks!

Thanks in Advance,
graydock

139 out of 199 US citizen IMGs that went to school in India didn't match. As the match gets more competitive, these numbers will worsen. That's nearly a 70% chance that you will not practice in the United States at all as things stand today, a chance that will only get worse as the number of US graduates gets closer to the number of residency positions. I wouldn't be surprised if 85-90% of USIMGs that went to India were failing to match by the time you graduated. Don't do it if you value your future.