Indian radiologist to USA

[UmairShariff]

Hello everyone, my wife is in final year of radiology in India and was wondering what options are available for her to pursue her field in USA owing to a better lifestyle there and deteriorating conditions in India.

From what I gather, she can be an online consultant reviewing scans from home, but she wants more hands on, maybe even pursue IR.

So, I'd appreciate if you all could help out with our information gathering and point us in the right direction.

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[CloudEmperor]

She would need to redo her radiology residency in the US

 

[redoitall]

She would have to participate to the match here, which in itself requires a lot to do. She would have to take her STEP exams. It is not uncommon for foreign trained MD to come to the US. However know that it is a long, difficult and probably costly process. Good luck.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

She needs to take step 1 and step 2, secure a few month of US clinical experience then go through the residency match.

I think the fifth pathway is no longer available.

 

[UmairShariff]

She would have to participate to the match here, which in itself requires a lot to do. She would have to take her STEP exams. It is not uncommon for foreign trained MD to come to the US. However know that it is a long, difficult and probably costly process. Good luck.

She needs to take step 1 and step 2, secure a few month of US clinical experience then go through the residency match.

I think the fifth pathway is no longer available.

Hi, judging by your answers, that route doesn't seem like a viable option. If only doctors were interchangeable among countries.

Thanks for the help, appreciate it.

Cheers

 

[redoitall]

that route doesn't seem like a viable option.

Well it depends what you mean by viable. Plenty of people do it and are quite successful at it. It all depends how much you are willing to invest (time/money/psychological hardship). It is not an easy path for sure. But if you want to know if this is worth, then that depends entirely on your situation.

Good luck whatever you choose.

 

[UmairShariff]

[QUOTE="UmairShariff, post: 19475540, member: 888821" that route doesn't seem like a viable option.

Well it depends what you mean by viable. Plenty of people do it and are quite successful at it. It all depends how much you are willing to invest (time/money/psychological hardship). It is not an easy path for sure. But if you want to know if this is worth, then that depends entirely on your situation.

Good luck whatever you choose.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, we'll talk this over and see if we have the stamina left to pull this off.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Hi, judging by your answers, that route doesn't seem like a viable option. If only doctors were interchangeable among countries.
Cheers

If that were the case every single developing nation doctor and his uncle would come practice to the USA, and the result would be to kill the golden goose for everyone. In other words, if coming over from India to practice medicine were easy, soon enough conditions over here in the States would decline to the point where coming over from India would no longer make any sense.

 

[radsisrad]

If that were the case every single developing nation doctor and his uncle would come practice to the USA, and the result would be to kill the golden goose for everyone. In other words, if coming over from India to practice medicine were easy, soon enough conditions over here in the States would decline to the point where coming over from India would no longer make any sense.

Protectionism for the win. And yep, I'm serious.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

There is nothing about protectionism. This is about many foreign trained physicians are not familiar with the US patient population, patient values, and common disease process and managements.

It’s entirely fair to have them retrain in the US. Many other countries also want physicians to retrain to their country.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

There is nothing about protectionism. This is about many foreign trained physicians are not familiar with the US patient population, patient values, and common disease process and managements.

It’s entirely fair to have them retrain in the US. Many other countries also want physicians to retrain to their country.

Certainly ensuring that only well trained and "compatible" doctors can work with American patients is a big reason why the residency requirement is justified.

But protectionism should not be a dirty word. Protectionism is great. It's what everybody seeks to implement instinctively in their everyday life.You try to protect your job, you try to protect your business. If you're a monopoly, you fight tooth and nail to protect that monopoly.

On a global level, it's also the paradigm under which the United States (as well as every other major industrial power) rose to prosperity and prominence. We're still coasting today off of the positive inertia created by "protectionism" in decades and centuries past. On the other hand, look at what has happened to entire swathes of the economy and whole regions of the country as a consequence of liberalization of the trade regime and the laissez faire approach to international competition. Look at what has become of the working class when their protections were removed and they were flooded by labor arbitrage via both offshoring and massive immigration.

I'm in favor of protectionism for every American. Just as I believe American workers should be protected from offshoring to low wage Asian nations and from the importation of cheap labor from overseas, I also think that American physicians should be protected from mass importation of third world medical workers. We're all Americans, we all pay taxes here, and in case of war we're all expected to contribute to the defense of the nation. What is the point of "being an American" if this status carries only extra obligations but does not carry any extra benefits? A nation is analogous to a family, and I don't think anyone would take issue with the idea that family comes first, and that family members receive preference over strangers regardless of whether they "deserve" to in some kind of abstract objective sense.

 

[UmairShariff]

If that were the case every single developing nation doctor and his uncle would come practice to the USA, and the result would be to kill the golden goose for everyone. In other words, if coming over from India to practice medicine were easy, soon enough conditions over here in the States would decline to the point where coming over from India would no longer make any sense.

I understand a country trying to protect it's people, but there should be an alternative for specialists. A specialist having to study first year basics all over to get into a different country and economy is absurd. How many surgeons know the Krebs cycle like a first year undergrad??

There should be a means to test a specialist in his field of study to see if they are knowledgeable and skilled enough to practice and making this route tough is well justified

 

[Tiger100]

I understand a country trying to protect it's people, but there should be an alternative for specialists. A specialist having to study first year basics all over to get into a different country and economy is absurd. How many surgeons know the Krebs cycle like a first year undergrad??

There should be a means to test a specialist in his field of study to see if they are knowledgeable and skilled enough to practice and making this route tough is well justified

Nobody owes anybody anything. Your entitlement is amazing. Nobody asked anybody to immigrate to another country. If they choose to immigrate, then they have to understand that the new country and the new society don't owe them anything and they HAVE TO respect the rules and regulations of the new society.

 

[takeshikovacs]

Nobody owes anybody anything. Your entitlement is amazing. Nobody asked anybody to immigrate to another country. If they choose to immigrate, then they have to understand that the new country and the new society don't owe them anything and they HAVE TO respect the rules and regulations of the new society.

Just stop. The guy/girl was lamenting how hard the route is and instead of being sympathetic or not saying anything at all, you decide to come in with some xenophobic hot takes.

Please take your political nonsense elsewhere. Thanks!

 

[ampersand5766]

I work with radiologists who trained in India and other countries at my institution (U of Washington). While I would personally stand to benefit from protectionism, I have high praise for many of these smart and hardworking colleagues. Here's an outline of the process for becoming a board-certified US radiologist: rad.washington.edu/education/fellowships/abr-4-year-pathway-university-washington/

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I work with radiologists who trained in India and other countries at my institution (U of Washington). While I would personally stand to benefit from protectionism, I have high praise for many of these smart and hardworking colleagues. Here's an outline of the process for becoming a board-certified US radiologist: rad.washington.edu/education/fellowships/abr-4-year-pathway-university-washington/

The alternative pathway is no longer available for IMGs as this is a frowned upon and discouraged pathway. It is de facto defunct. I have never met any recent IMG who is participating in this pathway

All IMGs are encourged to try for the residency match instead.

 

[radsisrad]

Just stop. The guy/girl was lamenting how hard the route is and instead of being sympathetic or not saying anything at all, you decide to come in with some xenophobic hot takes.

Please take your political nonsense elsewhere. Thanks!

Did someone ask you for your lecturing?

Didn't think so.

 

[Tiger100]

Just stop. The guy/girl was lamenting how hard the route is and instead of being sympathetic or not saying anything at all, you decide to come in with some xenophobic hot takes.

Please take your political nonsense elsewhere. Thanks!

Being realistic is beyond your understanding.

Half of my colleagues are immigrants, many of which were hired by me. But all of them went through its standard pathway (med school + residency + fellowship or med school oversees + residency and fellowship here) rather than feeling entitled that they SHOULD be given a FULL FREE LICENSE to practice medicine without going through its standard accepted route.

Mr. Che Guevara! Go and learn what is the meaning of xenphobia. You are abusing the term.

 

[UmairShariff]

Being realistic is beyond your understanding.

Half of my colleagues are immigrants, many of which were hired by me. But all of them went through its standard pathway (med school + residency + fellowship or med school oversees + residency and fellowship here) rather than feeling entitled that they SHOULD be given a FULL FREE LICENSE to practice medicine without going through its standard accepted route.

Mr. Che Guevara! Go and learn what is the meaning of xenphobia. You are abusing the term.

I am not asking anyone or any country to give me a full free license. All I am saying is that a specialist shouldn't have to be tested on content that is absolutely irrelevant to his field.

Anyways, back to the main topic; I am exploring an idea and would appreciate some input on this. Me and my wife intend to complete our residencies in India and in the following 10 or so years, practice and do a PhD in our respective fields (Ortho for me, radio for her). After that, we want to get into academics in the states. As far as I am aware, teaching doesn't need any licensure.

Please pour in your thoughts on this idea.

Thank you

 

[Tiger100]

I am not asking anyone or any country to give me a full free license. All I am saying is that a specialist shouldn't have to be tested on content that is absolutely irrelevant to his field.

Anyways, back to the main topic; I am exploring an idea and would appreciate some input on this. Me and my wife intend to complete our residencies in India and in the following 10 or so years, practice and do a PhD in our respective fields (Ortho for me, radio for her). After that, we want to get into academics in the states. As far as I am aware, teaching doesn't need any licensure.

Please pour in your thoughts on this idea.

Thank you

One major point that you have to consider is the difference in mindset and educational philosophy of US and many other countries including Europe. In US, the main emphasis is on "how hard you work" and "what you have done" and there is a huge dependency on the system itself. This is the main reason that for residency and fellowship application, it is not just board scores. Recommendations letters, research and work experience mean a lot. It is opposite to philosophy of many other countries that put a huge emphasis on "exams and board scores". For example, I know in some countries you have to take the exam and your score is the only determining factor for choosing your specialty. Even your post conveys the same message that in your mindset "passing an exam with good scores" is the major criteria for being qualified. Your philosophy may be right and the US philosophy may be wrong. But at the end of the day, you are trying to enter this system and not the opposite and you have to comply with the regulations of this system.

One other thing that you have to consider is the fact that Medicine is highly regulated in US. You have to jump through several steps to get full license and to maintain the license here. Also from US system standpoint, just passing a test is not enough to evaluate your qualifications (as a specialist) and you have to do more than that.

This is the core of disagreement. From US standpoint, you are not considered a specialist. I don't say you are not. You may be better than many doctors in US. But the system does not recognize it. Even accepting MD from another country is up to the rules and regulations of the destination country and the US system has all the rights to decline even your MD or BS.

Good Luck.

 

[UmairShariff]

One major point that you have to consider is the difference in mindset and educational philosophy of US and many other countries including Europe. In US, the main emphasis is on "how hard you work" and "what you have done" and there is a huge dependency on the system itself. This is the main reason that for residency and fellowship application, it is not just board scores. Recommendations letters, research and work experience mean a lot. It is opposite to philosophy of many other countries that put a huge emphasis on "exams and board scores". For example, I know in some countries you have to take the exam and your score is the only determining factor for choosing your specialty. Even your post conveys the same message that in your mindset "passing an exam with good scores" is the major criteria for being qualified. Your philosophy may be right and the US philosophy may be wrong. But at the end of the day, you are trying to enter this system and not the opposite and you have to comply with the regulations of this system.

One other thing that you have to consider is the fact that Medicine is highly regulated in US. You have to jump through several steps to get full license and to maintain the license here. Also from US system standpoint, just passing a test is not enough to evaluate your qualifications (as a specialist) and you have to do more than that.

This is the core of disagreement. From US standpoint, you are not considered a specialist. I don't say you are not. You may be better than many doctors in US. But the system does not recognize it. Even accepting MD from another country is up to the rules and regulations of the destination country and the US system has all the rights to decline even your MD or BS.

Good Luck.

Thank you for that lengthy and unnecessary lecture but you haven't answered my question. I believe I have moved the discussion from what-should-be to what-can-i-do-next. If you are unable to answer that please refrain from wasting your own and everyone else's time.

Thank you and have a good day

 

[colbgw02]

Anyways, back to the main topic; I am exploring an idea and would appreciate some input on this. Me and my wife intend to complete our residencies in India and in the following 10 or so years, practice and do a PhD in our respective fields (Ortho for me, radio for her). After that, we want to get into academics in the states. As far as I am aware, teaching doesn't need any licensure.

Re: the bold, it depends on what type of academics we're talking about. In the context of radiology, academics typically means being faculty at a residency program, which absolutely requires licensure and board certification. If your wife were to get a PhD in, for example, radiological physics, then she potentially could be hired to work in an academic radiology department and even teach physics to the residents. She would not be permitted to practice medicine, so if you're thinking of traditional at-the-viewbox teaching, then that would be off the table. I don't know enough about orthopaedics to provide specifics about opportunities for PhDs in that field, but my point is that such a degree could get you to the periphery of medicine, but with a decidedly more basic science slant.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Thank you for that lengthy and unnecessary lecture but you haven't answered my question. I believe I have moved the discussion from what-should-be to what-can-i-do-next. If you are unable to answer that please refrain from wasting your own and everyone else's time.

Thank you and have a good day

People have already answered your question. You will come to the US, go to medical school, go to radiology residency and practice. It takes about 10 years total.

 

[UmairShariff]

Re: the bold, it depends on what type of academics we're talking about. In the context of radiology, academics typically means being faculty at a residency program, which absolutely requires licensure and board certification. If your wife were to get a PhD in, for example, radiological physics, then she potentially could be hired to work in an academic radiology department and even teach physics to the residents. She would not be permitted to practice medicine, so if you're thinking of traditional at-the-viewbox teaching, then that would be off the table. I don't know enough about orthopaedics to provide specifics about opportunities for PhDs in that field, but my point is that such a degree could get you to the periphery of medicine, but with a decidedly more basic science slant.

I looked into the radiology physics and it seems to be an okay field. Since this is in a very early stage, could you help me gather data on which paramedical fields dont require licensure?? I am looking at a few options right now, some of which include: hospital administrator, a clinic (owned but not practicing), PhD in a paramedical field (anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, microbiology, etc) and certain areas of medical research.

We are not really interested in attempting at USMLE because we've already spent plenty of time and effort getting to where we are and doing all of this over again with no assurity of getting our selected fields is too bug of a risk to take. So, I'd much rather take up an easier route with something different and establish my family.

Thanks for the help
Cheers

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I looked into the radiology physics and it seems to be an okay field. Since this is in a very early stage, could you help me gather data on which paramedical fields dont require licensure?? I am looking at a few options right now, some of which include: hospital administrator, a clinic (owned but not practicing), PhD in a paramedical field (anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, microbiology, etc) and certain areas of medical research.

We are not really interested in attempting at USMLE because we've already spent plenty of time and effort getting to where we are and doing all of this over again with no assurity of getting our selected fields is too bug of a risk to take. So, I'd much rather take up an easier route with something different and establish my family.

Thanks for the help
Cheers

If you got a couple million dollars laying around, you can certainly try to own your clinic.

However, I am unsure how well you will manage a US health care operation as you have no experience with the US health care system.

Certainly I can’t image other people letting you manage a multi million dollar operation with their money.

 

[USTXMD2013]

Just stay in your own country. It really pisses me off that so many people from 3rd world countries receive subsidized education at home (sometimes to the point of being free) and then want to leave and use the education their own citizens paid for to come to America.

America will do just fine with fewer international MDs and should instead expand US med schools. It is unacceptable and morally reprehensible that so many foreigners want to abandon their countries that desperately need them. Moving to the US is a selfish move and I'm surprised more foreign countries haven't put up roadblocks to prevent this brain drain.

 

[UmairShariff]

If you got a couple million dollars laying around, you can certainly try to own your clinic.

However, I am unsure how well you will manage a US health care operation as you have no experience with the US health care system.

Certainly I can’t image other people letting you manage a multi million dollar operation with their money.

Do you do anything but condescend?? Here I am trying to find a way and asking for advice, and all you do is shut me down. I dont know the US medical system?? I will either find a way or lose my investment. All I asked is possible options, didnt ask what you think I am capable of.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Do you do anything but condescend?? Here I am trying to find a way and asking for advice, and all you do is shut me down. I dont know the US medical system?? I will either find a way or lose my investment. All I asked is possible options, didnt ask what you think I am capable of.

You are not trained in the US and therefore you are not familiar with the US health care system.

I am not sure why that statement is considered to be condescending. I certainly do not know about the Indian healthcare system.

In fact, I am not sure if I said any condescenxing comment here in this thread.

 

[knosway14]

Just stay in your own country. It really pisses me off that so many people from 3rd world countries receive subsidized education at home (sometimes to the point of being free) and then want to leave and use the education their own citizens paid for to come to America.

America will do just fine with fewer international MDs and should instead expand US med schools. It is unacceptable and morally reprehensible that so many foreigners want to abandon their countries that desperately need them. Moving to the US is a selfish move and I'm surprised more foreign countries haven't put up roadblocks to prevent this brain drain.

you surely care about indian population, your kindness and generosity moved a few strings in my heart ,almost cry