Industry Pharmacist.. Real or Myth?

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mfw04071

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Hi all, thank you for giving me a bit of your time to read this. Background: I'm a P2 going into my P3 year getting really interested in working for the Pharma industry.

I have some questions about industry pharmacy. First off, what should I do to get myself most competitive for midyear and the fellowship process? I think Pharma can offer great and rewarding careers, the problem is getting your foot in the door. My GPA is good, I've done independent research (with a poster presentation and publication submitted; Yay!), I have pharmacy and leadership experience and am starting my own chapter of IPhO (Industry Pharmacist Organization) at my school. I have the opportunity to pursue a PharmD/MBA program, yet am not currently enrolled (should I pursue this for 40k?). I'll have my BS in Pharm Sci by the end of this summer. What else should I try to do to get myself as competitive as can be for fellowships and subsequent employment?

Is industry pharmacy real, or is it just something shiny and glamorous you read about in a magazine? I know a handful of people who work in the Pharma industry, but most got there by luck of the draw. With how much supply of PharmD's there are (especially in recent years), how likely is it that industry actually 'checks out'? I am not trying to sound desperate, but I went into pharmacy school on the dumb-ass 2+4 early acceptance scam because my parents said 'Yeah, do pharmacy. There's science in it and you make lots of money.' I didn't question it. I shadowed retail in high school and thought 'yeah this ain't bad for 100+k/yr'. Now with more retail experience, I want nothing to do with it. Clinical pharmacy is alright, but I'll be honest, I ****ing hate needles and don't want to kill somebody either. Industry sounds bad-ass. Working for Big Pharma to complete projects that actually have market-wide impacts- all while making a pretty penny. Sounds good to me! I've met with MSL's and their roles are pretty interesting. I don't know what exactly else is out there as my school is pretty small and lacks a lot of industry connections. What other specific roles in the industry can PharmD's hold?

So in short recap:
  1. How can I make myself most competitive for fellowships/industry employment?
  2. Should I pursue my PharmD/MBA (another $40k in loans)?
  3. How realistic is getting a job in the Pharma industry/corporate pharmacy?
  4. What specific roles can PharmD's in the industry have?
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I can 100% guarantee you that no pharmacy job ever has been something shiny and glamorous that you would read about in a magazine.
 
Thanks for your input, but I'm not looking for the doom-and-gloom on pharmacy. Does anybody know the outlooks for PharmD's in the Pharma industry?
 
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mfw04071 said:
Hi all, thank you for giving me a bit of your time to read this. Background: I'm a P2 going into my P3 year getting really interested in working for the Pharma industry.

I have some questions about industry pharmacy. First off, what should I do to get myself most competitive for midyear and the fellowship process? I think Pharma can offer great and rewarding careers, the problem is getting your foot in the door. My GPA is good, I've done independent research (with a poster presentation and publication submitted; Yay!), I have pharmacy and leadership experience and am starting my own chapter of IPhO (Industry Pharmacist Organization) at my school. I have the opportunity to pursue a PharmD/MBA program, yet am not currently enrolled (should I pursue this for 40k?). I'll have my BS in Pharm Sci by the end of this summer. What else should I try to do to get myself as competitive as can be for fellowships and subsequent employment?

Is industry pharmacy real, or is it just something shiny and glamorous you read about in a magazine? I know a handful of people who work in the Pharma industry, but most got there by luck of the draw. With how much supply of PharmD's there are (especially in recent years), how likely is it that industry actually 'checks out'? I am not trying to sound desperate, but I went into pharmacy school on the dumb-ass 2+4 early acceptance scam because my parents said 'Yeah, do pharmacy. There's science in it and you make lots of money.' I didn't question it. I shadowed retail in high school and thought 'yeah this ain't bad for 100+k/yr'. Now with more retail experience, I want nothing to do with it. Clinical pharmacy is alright, but I'll be honest, I ****ing hate needles and don't want to kill somebody either. Industry sounds bad-ass. Working for Big Pharma to complete projects that actually have market-wide impacts- all while making a pretty penny. Sounds good to me! I've met with MSL's and their roles are pretty interesting. I don't know what exactly else is out there as my school is pretty small and lacks a lot of industry connections. What other specific roles in the industry can PharmD's hold?

So in short recap:
  1. How can I make myself most competitive for fellowships/industry employment?
  2. Should I pursue my PharmD/MBA (another $40k in loans)?
  3. How realistic is getting a job in the Pharma industry/corporate pharmacy?
  4. What specific roles can PharmD's in the industry have?
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You should think about it this way: there are no career paths/tracks for pharmacists in the pharmaceutical industry. That’s not to say that pharmacists don’t work in pharma, but those pharmacists that do work in pharma do not need a PharmD for their job. For example, MSLs are primarily MD’s, nurses and other healthcare professionals and it is not a position that is “exclusive” to pharmacists by any means. Matter of fact if you wanted an MSL position in industry as a pharmacist you have limited options compared to an MD because your “skillset” would be limited to companies that produce/sell drugs, whereas an MD can look for MSL jobs in biotech, medical device and other companies in industry in addition to pharma.

As the saturation has been hitting big time now in pharmacy, more and more students like yourself are flocking to non-traditional “career paths” in an effort to get out of mainstream pharmacy practice, but as stated earlier this is not a mainstream career path for pharmacists to begin with so the number of positions are not going to expand/it will be even more difficult to get an industry position in the coming years.

So to recap, pharmacy is a dead end profession and if you really wanted to get into pharma then I recommend dropping out and pursuing a PhD as the skillset gained from basic science research is more applicable to pharma compared to the skillset of a pharmacist.
 
There's other threads on this, but both real and a myth. The reality is that there are good opportunities for desk jobs or people jobs in industry. The myth is that it's risk free or that it isn't hard or secure work. The main complaint that I see from successful industry pharmacists is the lack of job security when you want it most and that ageism is much more pronounced in industry than other places. The main complaint I hear from unsuccessful industry pharmacists is that its connections based, and most of the qualifications are things that you don't put on a resume.

And yes, there are "glamorous" jobs in industry like there are in chains, but if you're not personally qualified or willing to work for them, then there's not much to say. Everyone that I know in the glamorous jobs area are both good and beautiful (and between the two, better to be beautiful), life's unfair.

And seriously, you're possibly the furthest away geographically from where those jobs are in NY state. Go SE and seek your fortune, young (wo)man!
 
My grandmother calls me good looking all the time.. does this count?

On a serious note, if I am banking on a fellowship/Pharma for a career should I just drop it and pursue another career instead?
 
mfw04071 said:
My grandmother calls me good looking all the time.. does this count?

On a serious note, if I am banking on a fellowship/Pharma for a career should I just drop it and pursue another career instead?
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Everything you are doing right now won't hurt, but it won't differentiate you.

If you do what everyone else is doing, you will look just like them on paper and during interviews.

3 years into my career as a retail pharmacist, I got a job offer for Sanofi as a drug rep (no clinical background needed). I could have made 90k plus commission, but turned it down.

Not as glorious as an MSL, but could have been my foot into the door for lateral promotion.

I also have an MBA, but that's now why I got the job offer.

It's because I networked, positioned myself favorably, and crushed all the interviews.

All of your experiences and education contribute positively to marketing yourself for any industry position.

But you need to demonstrate how all those skills and background transfer directly to whatever field you're applying to.

If you're serious about industry, try this:

Call and meet 100 industry professionals in person, via skype, or via email.

Find ways to add value to them (share information, connect them with other professionals in their industry, check in regularly to give them something they appreciate)

If you do this for 4 years without asking for anything in return, I guarantee you will have enough influence to acquire job opportunities that most people never even see.

Not only will you improve your communication and networking skills, you will learn the ins and outs of the industry, gain mentors who can teach you, and at the very least some new friends.
 
mfw04071 said:
My grandmother calls me good looking all the time.. does this count?

On a serious note, if I am banking on a fellowship/Pharma for a career should I just drop it and pursue another career instead?
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On a serious note, if you're not willing to stomach risk (and I mean the sort of risk that could get you fired or promoted tomorrow), then you're not cut out for industry. There's enough mythology about NYC that can apply, but I'll let you figure out what hero's journey you're signing up for if any at all.
 
Real.

Industry is always looking for the newest, shiniest thing on the market. Like others have already mentioned, there are plenty of jobs in industry, but be prepared for little to no job security.

Also, as others have mentioned, most of the pharmacist positions in industry are not limited to pharmacists, so you will be competing against doctors, nurses, etc.

Personally, I wouldn’t waste my money on an MBA. I don’t think it’s necesary, but i believe we have a very thorough sticky discussing how to break into industry so that might be the best place to start.

You should also start networking. Maybe reach out to alumni to see if there are any summer internships available to get some experience. Also don’t be afraid to reach out to smaller CROs. For some reason, everyone always goes for the big names - Pfizer, sanofi, Novartis, etc. but try looking for an internship at a smaller consulting company. It may be less competitive, and you can probably still get a great experience.

Edit ** also wanted to add that it wouldn’t hurt to reach out to your APPe coordinator to see if they can connect you to any preceptors that are currently at a drug company or a consulting firm. You can set up an “informational interview” where you can ask them questions about what they do, how they broke into the industry, any tips, etc. these might be helpful connections later on, and you never know when someone may be able/willing to take a student intern ( be prepared for this to be unpaid**)
 
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Huh, I’m wrapping up my two-year clinical development post-PharmD fellowship with a large biotech company. I had no trouble finding an exciting job that pays well (with large sign-on, stock options, decent annual bonus, etc.) and has great benefits. Sure there’s lots of turn over and job-changing in this industry, but no one struggles to get a job. You basically have to beat recruiters off with a stick.
 
y0ssarian87 said:
Huh, I’m wrapping up my two-year clinical development post-PharmD fellowship with a large biotech company. I had no trouble finding an exciting job that pays well (with large sign-on, stock options, decent annual bonus, etc.) and has great benefits. Sure there’s lots of turn over and job-changing in this industry, but no one struggles to get a job. You basically have to beat recruiters off with a stick.
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I’ll also say, yeah, I work hard, at least in the number of hours I put in. But I think the freedom to think creatively about trial design and the ability to go through data from early phase studies is incredibly invigorating. I truly love going into the office every day.
 
TerryTerry said:
I refrained myself from saying this until now... but the looks matter a lot.
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This has always been the case. Most Target pharmacists around here are young, blonde and beautiful. Not sure if things changed since CVS bought them. But I've noticed even CVS new grads have been better looking each year.
 
gwarm01 said:
Now there's a PGY3 specialty. Acyclovir, ceftriaxone, azithromycin, metronidazole, sildenafil. What else should we stock in this boutique pharmacy?
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Well, Psychiatric meds. Talk to either Reno or Las Vegas for details, and there's an independent in Reno that specializes in adult entertainment industry work. Owned by the same church as the sushi restaurants so I am told.

Ask me privately why Radiology image research happens to be in LA, NYC, and SLC, and you'll understand that the adult entertainment industry has closer ties to health than we like to acknowledge...
 
y0ssarian87 said:
Huh, I’m wrapping up my two-year clinical development post-PharmD fellowship with a large biotech company. I had no trouble finding an exciting job that pays well (with large sign-on, stock options, decent annual bonus, etc.) and has great benefits. Sure there’s lots of turn over and job-changing in this industry, but no one struggles to get a job. You basically have to beat recruiters off with a stick.
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You're young yet and very fresh on the latest techniques and regulatory trends (PROs and Adaptive weren't taught even as specialist topics as late as 2008, you had to get that from ICSA or JSM and reading). It becomes increasingly harder the longer you're in the business, I liken it to either a rope-a-dope endurance strategy or know what your numbers are and know when not to overstay your welcome. That said, the last downturn was 2008, and no one should consider themselves true industry until they survive their first one. If you do survive, it's a unicorn career field, but I think only a third of my industry cohort has made it a decade in these good times. The rewards are proportionate to the risks, you put in the work and the network, and if sufficient, then you're in for a very lucrative and rewarding career, better than medicine. But, there are downsides as you well know in the loop.
 
gwarm01 said:
Now there's a PGY3 specialty. Acyclovir, ceftriaxone, azithromycin, metronidazole, sildenafil. What else should we stock in this boutique pharmacy?
Click to expand...

Alprostadil, if you're hardcore like me.
 
gwarm01 said:
Now there's a PGY3 specialty. Acyclovir, ceftriaxone, azithromycin, metronidazole, sildenafil. What else should we stock in this boutique pharmacy?
Click to expand...
PharmDBro2017 said:
Alprostadil, if you're hardcore like me.
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Great pharmacologic strategy but you guys are completely ignoring hydration. Gotta get some LR+20meq K if you want to stay in the game for more than 3 innings.
 
So did you decide you don’t want to do a chemistry BS?

mfw04071 said:
So in short recap:
  1. How can I make myself most competitive for fellowships/industry employment?
  2. Should I pursue my PharmD/MBA (another $40k in loans)?
  3. How realistic is getting a job in the Pharma industry/corporate pharmacy?
  4. What specific roles can PharmD's in the industry have?
Click to expand...
1. 1-2 internships, 1-2 impactful leadership roles + networking.

2. 95% no.

3. Realistic. The largest barriers are awareness, self-selection and preparation; probabilities are higher than you’re led to believe. E.g. there is roughly a 20% chance for fellowship purely on the stats alone. If you’re a prepared candidate, 30-40%.

4. Almost all of them are feasible, some harder than others. Only ones I’ve not seen any PharmDs in are IT, manufacturing and accounting/Corp finance. R&D, Regulatory, Medical, Commercial, Corporate/Business Development are all open.
 
lord999 said:
You're young yet and very fresh on the latest techniques and regulatory trends (PROs and Adaptive weren't taught even as specialist topics as late as 2008, you had to get that from ICSA or JSM and reading). It becomes increasingly harder the longer you're in the business, I liken it to either a rope-a-dope endurance strategy or know what your numbers are and know when not to overstay your welcome. That said, the last downturn was 2008, and no one should consider themselves true industry until they survive their first one. If you do survive, it's a unicorn career field, but I think only a third of my industry cohort has made it a decade in these good times. The rewards are proportionate to the risks, you put in the work and the network, and if sufficient, then you're in for a very lucrative and rewarding career, better than medicine. But, there are downsides as you well know in the loop.
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This is key. Industry is very fast paced. Science, technologies, regulations/policies, etc. are constantly changing. You have to be able to keep up in order to stay in the game.

Its not uncommon to have drug development program reach phase 2 or phase 3 only have the same product approved by a competing company, or having policies/practices change that can throw off your development and maybe even jeopardize your office if that product is part of your portfolio. I’ve heard of an entire offices in small companies being let go after their product didn’t get an approval from the FDA.

I don’t think it’s a place where you can ever really be comfortable or complacent. You have to prove your worth and be versatile enough to quickly switch gears if needed.
 
Industry Pharmacy isn't quite a suitable term. It's a subtle but important distinction pharmacy students should recognize. If you decide to go into industry, you're a pharmacist in the pharma/biotech industry. You're making a decision to leave the practice of pharmacy (unless you continue per diem). Technically, you don't even need a pharmacy license anymore to perform your job (although some companies do value it). You'll be recognized generally as being an HCP, but not necessarily a pharmacist. Some roles highly value MDs but being a PharmD is about the same appreciation level as a BSN with clinical experience.

That aside, being in the industry can really be all that you imagined in a dream job. Good perks, flexible workday, interesting and enjoyable work that's fulfilling, continuous growth, good compensation, generous PTO, fun working environment, happy hours, business trips, even secondment (have had chances in Switzerland and Japan). The drawback is that you never really know when that'll change. Overnight, you can get a company-wide email that they're getting acquired or something significant is changing. But I guess this is becoming more common in retail as well. The most tedious time will probably be in the first year or two of entering the industry. After running the gauntlet of getting a foot in the door, you'll have to pay your dues and put in some grunt work - which is sort of necessary to build a foundation.

Job security wise, what you've heard from everyone is certainly true. There's a lot of mergers and acquisitions in the industry, and you don't hear about them until after it's a done deal. Then follows usually months of uncertainty. Sometimes it works out great - you get a promotion and a higher position in the new organization, or you get a very generous severance payment and stock payout that's enough for a home down payment. Other times, you don't get much. In the end, it pays to be really good at what you do and develop a strong skill set. If you do that, you won't have to worry - regardless of layoffs or age. It's important to think ahead an keep in mind what skills you want to have mastered 5 years or 10 years from present. Being in operations is fine in your 20s or early 30s. Being a project manager in your late 30s and early 40s is is good but do you really want to be manipulating spreadsheets at 50? By a certain point in your career, you will want to have both the expertise and acumen to be a leader and influencing policy (unless you choose to remain as a niche subject matter expert).

So OP, try to go for summer internships and an industry fellowship program. If that doesn't work, try working with recruiting agencies to get a 1 year contract in Medical Information or Drug Safety. If that doesn't work, try to get an in with a CRO that pharma companies outsource services to.
 
gwarm01 said:
Now there's a PGY3 specialty. Acyclovir, ceftriaxone, azithromycin, metronidazole, sildenafil. What else should we stock in this boutique pharmacy?
Click to expand...
I think speculation about a dedicated "porn" pharmacy deserves its own thread.
 
PGY3 in "Adult Services" Maybe there can even be some kind of certification, like geriatrics! More credentials- YAY!!!!!!
 
You guys inspired me so much, I created a thread....see "Gilding a Snowflake" for your chance to create your own residency!!!
 
mfw04071 said:
Hi all, thank you for giving me a bit of your time to read this. Background: I'm a P2 going into my P3 year getting really interested in working for the Pharma industry.

I have some questions about industry pharmacy. First off, what should I do to get myself most competitive for midyear and the fellowship process? I think Pharma can offer great and rewarding careers, the problem is getting your foot in the door. My GPA is good, I've done independent research (with a poster presentation and publication submitted; Yay!), I have pharmacy and leadership experience and am starting my own chapter of IPhO (Industry Pharmacist Organization) at my school. I have the opportunity to pursue a PharmD/MBA program, yet am not currently enrolled (should I pursue this for 40k?). I'll have my BS in Pharm Sci by the end of this summer. What else should I try to do to get myself as competitive as can be for fellowships and subsequent employment?

Is industry pharmacy real, or is it just something shiny and glamorous you read about in a magazine? I know a handful of people who work in the Pharma industry, but most got there by luck of the draw. With how much supply of PharmD's there are (especially in recent years), how likely is it that industry actually 'checks out'? I am not trying to sound desperate, but I went into pharmacy school on the dumb-ass 2+4 early acceptance scam because my parents said 'Yeah, do pharmacy. There's science in it and you make lots of money.' I didn't question it. I shadowed retail in high school and thought 'yeah this ain't bad for 100+k/yr'. Now with more retail experience, I want nothing to do with it. Clinical pharmacy is alright, but I'll be honest, I ****ing hate needles and don't want to kill somebody either. Industry sounds bad-ass. Working for Big Pharma to complete projects that actually have market-wide impacts- all while making a pretty penny. Sounds good to me! I've met with MSL's and their roles are pretty interesting. I don't know what exactly else is out there as my school is pretty small and lacks a lot of industry connections. What other specific roles in the industry can PharmD's hold?

So in short recap:
  1. How can I make myself most competitive for fellowships/industry employment?
  2. Should I pursue my PharmD/MBA (another $40k in loans)?
  3. How realistic is getting a job in the Pharma industry/corporate pharmacy?
  4. What specific roles can PharmD's in the industry have?
Click to expand...
Agree with Wazzooo...good advice.

OP - see below, hope it came out right from my phone.

1. Gain diverse experience, network/talk to others in various industry roles and folks who’ve done/in the fellowship. There is a huge variety of roles for a PharmD. A fellowship is your best route, residency is 2nd to that and could be a route if you like clinical (suggest specialized). For example, 2 yr Residency trained + board certified = great MSL candidate. The number of fellowships/residencies has gone up considerably with a steady increase in applicants over the last 10 years, this better odds. Follow wazaooo’s advice. Even to get a pharma contractor job, working in various areas will help (ie. retail and Hosptial/managed care/speciality etc.) with the bigger companies. Try agencies first short term.

2) No. unless it’s free or at minimal cost and a light workload. It will help but not worth $ and time.

3) somewhat very. You have to be determined, whether it’s getting a post doc or first job/transition to pharma; have patience and the financial ability (ppl get fired/Mergers, contractor status). It’s not for everyone, not everyone lasts. Depending on the role, they can be very clinical, exciting and challenging. It takes a while for some people to understand what they really want to do initially. The culture from each company (and west cost to east coast) will vary.

4) broadly commercial - sales/marketing, medical has a variety of roles. (Field/hike office for both) Some example areas in medical - clinical development, field medical, medical information, medical strategy. Some commercial examples, marketing, field sales,
Others that depend - health economics, advocacy, independent medical education.

For specifics, I’d verbally talk to people. Honestly this is the best way you will learn more about what these roles do day to day.
Good luck!
 
I interned at Wyeth US Medical Information a long time ago and the head of the department hired 10+ year experienced pharmacists from across multiple disciplines to form the team. They came from inpatient, am care, LTC, and retail...specializing in things like asthma management, ID, and med safety. I think there may have been one or two that were industry fellowship trained.
 
mfw04071 said:
My grandmother calls me good looking all the time.. does this count?
On a serious note, if I am banking on a fellowship/Pharma for a career should I just drop it and pursue another career instead?
Click to expand...

Yes, if that is the only pharmacist job you can see yourself working, drop now and go into another career. Banking on a career in Pharma with a PharmD, is like a teenage girl banking on marrying Tom Cruise. Sure, it will work for somebody, but it's extremely unlikely that you will be that person. Look at the chart above, because it is true. The vast majority of pharmacists will be working in retail or hospital, with the by far biggest majority working in retail. If you honestly can't see yourself working in either hospital or retail, then you are wasting your time getting a pharmacist degree.
 
I have to make a point about job security in pharma since I see so many comments revolving around this.

There's a fundamental difference about how job security should be viewed in the industry vs traditional pharmacist jobs. In retail, a pharmacist mostly depends on the employer to provide security. In industry, your own skill set IS your job security. I think it's almost impossible for a retail pharmacist to be so recognizably skilled at their job that pharmacies will be competing with each other to recruit said individual. Therefore, losing your retail job is inherently more stressful.

In the industry, there are plenty of people who are so confident of their value that they prefer taking contracts as opposed to permanent positions. They'll hold out for the highest bidder or most interesting opportunity, make a boatload of money on a 12 or 18 month contract...then take a couple months off to relax and travel. And happily repeat the cycle. Others will take a permanent position with the hope of more stability and will find themselves in periods of uncertainty during mergers and acquisitions - but I don't see many viewing this as more than a slight annoyance. It can even be exciting if it leads to a better opportunity for you in the long run (which it often does).

Point is...job security isn't an issue in the pharma industry so much as job stability. If anything, industry allows for greater job security because you're more empowered in the job market. The industry is somewhat of a small world. Skilled/experienced people are often known by name, sometimes even across the country and continents - and this becomes more true as you tack on more years of experience. Word of mouth recommendations from the East Coast can land someone a job in the West Coast, and vice versa. Usually, these exchanges are nothing more than a simple text from a friend or former colleague asking "Do you know so-and-so? What do you think of them?"

Six months to a year into getting a foot in the door, you'll find yourself starting to get emails from recruiters. By the time you're 5 years in, you're getting them almost daily. After a certain point, people in network from different companies (or sometimes even different function within your company) will be trying to recruit you away from your current job if you've been identified as a high performer. If you're not available, they'll always ask if you could at least recommend a good person instead and request that you contact them as soon as you become available again. The thing is, most of us who go to pharmacy school are risk-averse by nature. A lot of us have been conditioned to take solace in reaching a certain skill level at a stable job environment, and maintaining the status quo for life - trusting that the employer will provide security as long as we don't mess up. In contrast, people who end up happy in the industry are generally pretty comfortable with uncertainty - we tend to see instability as the glass half full rather than half empty.

And a final point - getting into industry is somewhat challenging but most of that is due to pharmacists (and pharmacy students) being risk averse. They have already taken themselves out of the equation. Over the years, I can't tell you how many pharmacists I've come across that have said they would love to go into industry but never even took the first step because they weren't sure where to start, and assumed it wasn't going to happen anyway. On the other hand, almost every pharmacist I've met that really put in the effort to get a foot in the door has successfully done so. Case in point - a classmate of mine spent over a decade talking about how much he wanted to go into the industry (while doing retail with a short hospital stint). From the time he decided to finally take chances and make it happen, he made it happen within 2 years (a transition job in between).
 
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wazoodog said:
I have to make a point about job security in pharma since I see so many comments revolving around this.

There's a fundamental difference about how job security should be viewed in the industry vs traditional pharmacist jobs. In retail, a pharmacist mostly depends on the employer to provide security. In industry, your own skill set IS your job security. I think it's almost impossible for a retail pharmacist to be so recognizably skilled at their job that pharmacies will be competing with each other to recruit said individual. Therefore, losing your retail job is inherently more stressful.

In the industry, there are plenty of people who are so confident of their value that they prefer taking contracts as opposed to permanent positions. They'll hold out for the highest bidder or most interesting opportunity, make a boatload of money on a 12 or 18 month contract...then take a couple months off to relax and travel. And happily repeat the cycle. Others will take a permanent position with the hope of more stability and will find themselves in periods of uncertainty during mergers and acquisitions - but I don't see many viewing this as more than a slight annoyance. It can even be exciting if it leads to a better opportunity for you in the long run (which it often does).

Point is...job security isn't an issue in the pharma industry so much as job stability. If anything, industry allows for greater job security because you're more empowered in the job market. The industry is somewhat of a small world. Skilled/experienced people are often known by name, sometimes even across the country and continents - and this becomes more true as you tack on more years of experience. Word of mouth recommendations from the East Coast can land someone a job in the West Coast, and vice versa. Usually, these exchanges are nothing more than a simple text from a friend or former colleague asking "Do you know so-and-so? What do you think of them?"

Six months to a year into getting a foot in the door, you'll find yourself starting to get emails from recruiters. By the time you're 5 years in, you're getting them almost daily. After a certain point, people in network from different companies (or sometimes even different function within your company) will be trying to recruit you away from your current job if you've been identified as a high performer. If you're not available, they'll always ask if you could at least recommend a good person instead and request that you contact them as soon as you become available again. The thing is, most of us who go to pharmacy school are risk-averse by nature. A lot of us have been conditioned to take solace in reaching a certain skill level at a stable job environment, and maintaining the status quo for life - trusting that the employer will provide security as long as we don't mess up. In contrast, people who end up happy in the industry are generally pretty comfortable with uncertainty - we tend to see instability as the glass half full rather than half empty.

And a final point - getting into industry is somewhat challenging but most of that is due to pharmacists (and pharmacy students) being risk averse. They have already taken themselves out of the equation. Over the years, I can't tell you how many pharmacists I've come across that have said they would love to go into industry but never even took the first step because they weren't sure where to start, and assumed it wasn't going to happen anyway. On the other hand, almost every pharmacist I've met that really put in the effort to get a foot in the door has successfully done so. Case in point - a classmate of mine spent over a decade talking about how much he wanted to go into the industry (while doing retail with a short hospital stint). From the time he decided to finally take chances and make it happen, he made it happen within 2 years (a transition job in between).
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I love this post. It's so balanced - realistic, but not pessimistic. You're right about risk aversion. I've met pharmacists who have never changed companies their entire career even though there's better opportunities and better pay elsewhere.
 
wazoodog said:
I have to make a point about job security in pharma since I see so many comments revolving around this.

There's a fundamental difference about how job security should be viewed in the industry vs traditional pharmacist jobs. In retail, a pharmacist mostly depends on the employer to provide security. In industry, your own skill set IS your job security. I think it's almost impossible for a retail pharmacist to be so recognizably skilled at their job that pharmacies will be competing with each other to recruit said individual. Therefore, losing your retail job is inherently more stressful.

In the industry, there are plenty of people who are so confident of their value that they prefer taking contracts as opposed to permanent positions. They'll hold out for the highest bidder or most interesting opportunity, make a boatload of money on a 12 or 18 month contract...then take a couple months off to relax and travel. And happily repeat the cycle. Others will take a permanent position with the hope of more stability and will find themselves in periods of uncertainty during mergers and acquisitions - but I don't see many viewing this as more than a slight annoyance. It can even be exciting if it leads to a better opportunity for you in the long run (which it often does).

Point is...job security isn't an issue in the pharma industry so much as job stability. If anything, industry allows for greater job security because you're more empowered in the job market. The industry is somewhat of a small world. Skilled/experienced people are often known by name, sometimes even across the country and continents - and this becomes more true as you tack on more years of experience. Word of mouth recommendations from the East Coast can land someone a job in the West Coast, and vice versa. Usually, these exchanges are nothing more than a simple text from a friend or former colleague asking "Do you know so-and-so? What do you think of them?"

Six months to a year into getting a foot in the door, you'll find yourself starting to get emails from recruiters. By the time you're 5 years in, you're getting them almost daily. After a certain point, people in network from different companies (or sometimes even different function within your company) will be trying to recruit you away from your current job if you've been identified as a high performer. If you're not available, they'll always ask if you could at least recommend a good person instead and request that you contact them as soon as you become available again. The thing is, most of us who go to pharmacy school are risk-averse by nature. A lot of us have been conditioned to take solace in reaching a certain skill level at a stable job environment, and maintaining the status quo for life - trusting that the employer will provide security as long as we don't mess up. In contrast, people who end up happy in the industry are generally pretty comfortable with uncertainty - we tend to see instability as the glass half full rather than half empty.

And a final point - getting into industry is somewhat challenging but most of that is due to pharmacists (and pharmacy students) being risk averse. They have already taken themselves out of the equation. Over the years, I can't tell you how many pharmacists I've come across that have said they would love to go into industry but never even took the first step because they weren't sure where to start, and assumed it wasn't going to happen anyway. On the other hand, almost every pharmacist I've met that really put in the effort to get a foot in the door has successfully done so. Case in point - a classmate of mine spent over a decade talking about how much he wanted to go into the industry (while doing retail with a short hospital stint). From the time he decided to finally take chances and make it happen, he made it happen within 2 years (a transition job in between).
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so where did your finally looked and how is he doing now?
 
He left retail when he got an offer with a patient support program. From there, he got into Medical Affairs at a CRO.

I'm inclined to say that the process of getting a foot in the door is a good test to see if you and the industry are a good fit for each other. Being successful and feeling satisfied in the industry means learning to embrace ambiguity. You'll often have to figure out what you need to do with minimal and vague directions. Your career progression pathway will be just as ambiguous. During the very few times during your career when you meet a great mentor, make the most of it and be grateful (and hopefully keep in touch).

The fellowship route is the closest thing to a "1 size fits all" path into industry which is why it's so competitive, but it's not how most people (or even most pharmacists) have stepped into the industry. For most, it's just finding whatever works to your strengths.
 
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I have met 2 pharmacists who moved into clinical trials in 2 ways. 1 had just started working as an oncology research coordinator after working at walmart for a while and the other is a study monitor who has worked as a monitor for 10+ years in a CRO. The pharmacy background does give you an edge in clinical trials because of the obvious need for pharmacological and clinical knowledge and the penchant for detail oriented work in that field. However, it is not for everyone and you do need to work for a while with lower pay than retail to get your foot in the door. Those are my 2 cents to be in the clinical trials part of industry.

I do have to add, clinical trials are a beast of their own and while there is demand there is also a lot instability in companies. However, it is a rewarding area to go into and the demand is there with decent salaries if you have the right skill set and mindset. It is biased towards the bigger cities in the coast with certain Midwest hots pots but it really comes down to getting your foot in the door and going from there. In my research site, we even have a pharmacy student rotating with the pharmacist and getting good experience in the field.

Another thing I do have to add is that people skills matter. The pharmacy student that is rotating has very little people skills and it shows on his lack of dealing with people who do not have direct influence in his schooling but probably his job prospects. Not everything is degrees and how much clinical knowledge and in industry just ok people skills will carry you a long way.
 
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I recently made it into industry with no experience. Few years of retail and a little bit of managed care.

They have me in med affairs and I base around 160k as a manager. I’m still learning the ropes.

A ton of applications. Asked for feedback if I ever got any bites at all on what would make my application or interview stronger.

Tried for a fellowship this year and was told no.

Fast forward 6 months. Ended up getting two offers at once. Field role and in house role.

Overall it took 5 years from when I wanted to quit retail. Gained some intermediate experience. Didn’t know anyone on the inside. Got lucky .
 
pharmacy_sucks said:
Highly variable depending on geographic location, company, field and position.
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Okay, for instance on the east coast, in a big company like Pfizer, medical affairs/advisor...not the clinical trial field. It’s hard to even find an average range...
 
braineddetermined said:
Okay, for instance on the east coast, in a big company like Pfizer, medical affairs/advisor...not the clinical trial field. It’s hard to even find an average range...
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Big companies aren't always (or even usually) the ones that pay the most.

I would say sky is the limit depending on the person. Once you get into industry you're no longer a career "pharmacist", which means you earn whatever your role/experience is from that point on as a scientist, an entrepreneur or corporate person. If you're a senior VP one day you will get paid as such. If you end up as company president you will get as much (a former company I worked for the president was a pharmacist from my alma mater). If you're a peon working for a startup biotech lucky to be there when the stock skyrockets you could end up a multi-millionaire. Hard to put a number because there are so many variables but salary wise I would say all of my classmates who went into industry make annual base anywhere from 140-230k (graduated about 15 years ago). In addition, a few have scored bigtime windfalls on stock options (Celgene, startup biotechs, etc) or severance/bonus payouts over 100k. One fellow got "lucky" twice and now he pretty much only works 2 weeks a month at 250/hour as a consultant.
 
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I second that. In my geographic location the entry level contract position they are hiring for that mentions a PharmD as a preferred education has a salary of $40/hour. However, it is definetely a low cost area in the west and literally 1 company in town.
 
I will add - sky is the limit but people end up figuring out what their "personal limit" is. As in, someone might hit 140k and be pretty content with their working environment, quality of life and income - and decide that it's not worth it to continue pursuing "moves" to keep climbing up. Then there are others who want to pursue more responsibilities or pay and are willing to make personal sacrifices for such. I think the majority of people in industry end up where they want to be out of personal choice - not because they can't keep climbing and getting paid more.
 
wazoodog said:
I will add - sky is the limit but people end up figuring out what their "personal limit" is. As in, someone might hit 140k and be pretty content with their working environment, quality of life and income - and decide that it's not worth it to continue pursuing "moves" to keep climbing up. Then there are others who want to pursue more responsibilities or pay and are willing to make personal sacrifices for such. I think the majority of people in industry end up where they want to be out of personal choice - not because they can't keep climbing and getting paid more.
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Agreed. More money comes with more hours and more travel and of course, more problems. Not everyone wants to manage people as a way of getting promoted (and I wish fewer people would get promoted to management because they aren't good at it, ha). I would guess that 130-150 would be a reasonable starting pay for someone with a couple years of other pharm experience, maybe less if you're coming out of a fellowship.

I worried that industry was so much more volatile than clinical or retail but with all the closures and hospital downsizing and market saturation, I feel really damn lucky. An individual job may not last, but once you have some tenure, you get recruited constantly for other jobs.
 
wazoodog said:
I will add - sky is the limit but people end up figuring out what their "personal limit" is. As in, someone might hit 140k and be pretty content with their working environment, quality of life and income - and decide that it's not worth it to continue pursuing "moves" to keep climbing up. Then there are others who want to pursue more responsibilities or pay and are willing to make personal sacrifices for such. I think the majority of people in industry end up where they want to be out of personal choice - not because they can't keep climbing and getting paid more.
Click to expand...

I can second this, pharmaceutical industry career ladder is ambiguous is that you can keep climbing if you really wanted too but will also require moving every couple of years and even working international locations depending on the area of industry you work in. I have some family that have made a career in the manufacturing side and worked with several pharmacist that used to work more directly in manufacturing processes. However, due to the change in direction of the profession that is becoming more rare, but still an option.
 
spacecowgirl said:
Agreed. More money comes with more hours and more travel and of course, more problems. Not everyone wants to manage people as a way of getting promoted (and I wish fewer people would get promoted to management because they aren't good at it, ha). I would guess that 130-150 would be a reasonable starting pay for someone with a couple years of other pharm experience, maybe less if you're coming out of a fellowship.

I worried that industry was so much more volatile than clinical or retail but with all the closures and hospital downsizing and market saturation, I feel really damn lucky. An individual job may not last, but once you have some tenure, you get recruited constantly for other jobs.
Click to expand...

Average base coming out of the fellowship is probably around $120 these days ranging from $110 - $140 depending on geography (SF/Boston vs elsewhere); office (Field vs HQ); level (Specialist vs Manager vs SM/AD); etc. Throw on 10 - 15% bonus and $5-15k stock and most people are at around $140ish all-in coming out of the fellowship. On top of that you usually have some generous 401k matching and some other nice perks
 
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