Industry Thread - someone can do AMA ??

Started by deleted1002574
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deleted1002574

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Does anyone know anyone that would be willing to do an AMA about rad oncs working in industry - someone that actually works at Varian or Accuray or whatever?

I think would be really great to learn about options - there is a LOT of rampant speculation about this wrt to what they do, pay, etc. and would be nice to get some details.

I don’t really have any direct contacts. If someone does maybe reach out?
 
Does anyone know anyone that would be willing to do an AMA about rad oncs working in industry - someone that actually works at Varian or Accuray or whatever?

I think would be really great to learn about options - there is a LOT of rampant speculation about this wrt to what they do, pay, etc. and would be nice to get some details.

I don’t really have any direct contacts. If someone does maybe reach out?

I would also be interested in this.
 
I worked in industry for a full year. AMA.

I presume you've talked about it elsewhere - care to link or copy/paste so I don't waste your time asking the same type of questions?

I'm curious what MD-type jobs are available and what their salaries range (in the current era).

Additionally, I think what I'd really like to know is industry reaction/discussion around APM. APM is technology agnostic, therefore, hurting financial incentives to invest in new equipment. I assume these conversations will remain internal/confidential but hey, I can dream.
 
What kind of job did you do? Like not the title, but what did you actually do for work.
Was it related to having a rad onc residency or pre-residency? Salary starting with bonus? Salary ending with bonus?
Was it interesting? Did you enjoy it? Benefits of it vs clinical practice?

I've not found anything remotely close in income.
 
What kind of job did you do? Like not the title, but what did you actually do for work.

My job was regulatory and strategy. I was hired particularly for my expertise in one particular area, though I also lended general MD rad onc knowledge to some other areas as well. That included:

1. Writing documents to assist with CE mark and FDA clearance for various products. Regulatory clearances under 510k pathway require Clinical Evaluation Reports to support their indication for use. Also, I assisted the regulatory staff with medical writing questions since they're not medical people
2. Identifying novel product uses, including brainstorming, literature review, and going to conferences or on site and interfacing with other physicians. This includes writing internal reviews of what products might be good for or to look for new ways to use the products.
3. Reviewing grants submitted to the company for funding and papers related to the product where the company was involved.
4. Discussing how a prototype device might work and how it could be most useful to physicians.

Was it related to having a rad onc residency or pre-residency? Salary starting with bonus? Salary ending with bonus?

I took a year out of my residency to do this--my research year. When I was a graduating MD/PhD, I tried to find a residency to support me to do a certain area of physics related rad onc research. The chair where I matched was interested in that, but when I arrived to start residency many of the faculty who interviewed me and the chair were gone. I was told point blank that I couldn't do the research I wanted to do. So I asked around at ASTRO to industry if they'd be interested in me and that's how I found my position. Rather than do a Holman, which was my plan before residency, I took a year of research to do it. Nobody was particularly concerned about me going away for a year since my in-service exam scores even in year one were almost 99th percentile in every section, I published a lot while I was there, and I worked hard and was well liked on clinical service.

My salary was paid directly to the institution. My understanding is that industry just paid my residency salary and benefits, and I kept getting paid as usual for a resident. They paid for housing for me while I was there. I made nothing additional. A lot of people thought I was getting rich or living on a high horse off of it, but I wasn't. I flew coach and had a limited budget for travel just like in academics. This was true even for the more senior MDs. In fact, their life was a bit tougher because there are some pretty senior people (MDs and PhDs) flying frequently all around the world in coach class with a lot of redeyes to conferences and site visits.

As for what individuals make, everyone is individually negotiated. I was told that it's hard to get above $200k unless you're C-level, and even then it's CEO types who make the kinds of salaries that clinical MDs make. Thus, only the large companies have one or two MDs on staff. They are looking for more MDs, but they want to pay more like residency/fellow/instuctor level salaries, maybe $100-$200k unless you are already a big named, well-established rad onc and then I just really don't know what they're getting paid though that's a very small number of people (maybe 1-2 in the world at any given time).

Of the people I know who do it longer term, they come in two camps generally.
1. Semi-retired, out of clinical practice and aren't going back. They do this until they decide to retire.
2. 50% clinical as an internal locums or with a very understanding institution and 50% with the company. The salary might be split like $150k here and $150k there. When I write "very understanding institution", this has happened, and was on the table for me, but we could not find an academic institution interested in a shared academic-industry arrangement in my case.

There are exceptions. I know someone who was taking a break from clinical work for reasons I don't want to go into, but did plan for it to be temporary and to go back to clinical practice.

The problem with industry in rad onc is that there are only 3-4 companies that hire MDs (Varian, Elekta, Accuray, Viewray), so it's hard to jump around. There are maybe 5-10 positions for this in the world. If your job dries up or the company struggles, there is very little mobility. However, they certainly did like having me and have looked for people similar to me, but again they are not looking to pay attending level salaries for the help. Also, industry funding is pretty fickle. Some years they'll have the R&D budget and managerial staff to approve an experiment like myself, but other years they won't. Some years they'll want a second MD in a medical affairs sort of role, other years they won't.

Was it interesting? Did you enjoy it? Benefits of it vs clinical practice?

Very interesting and enjoyable. Got to live in another part of the world and see something very different. It's hard to move up in industry. The best way to get ahead in industry is to make your company and get bought out. That buyout not only includes money for you, but will also often include a good position in the company buying you out. I already discussed the relatively low pay and job insecurity. So I work in academics nowadays. I'd consider going back to industry some day with the right offer or maybe 20 years from now if I want to semi-retire and there's a position for me.
 
My job was regulatory and strategy. I was hired particularly for my expertise in one particular area, though I also lended general MD rad onc knowledge to some other areas as well. That included:

1. Writing documents to assist with CE mark and FDA clearance for various products. Regulatory clearances under 510k pathway require Clinical Evaluation Reports to support their indication for use. Also, I assisted the regulatory staff with medical writing questions since they're not medical people
2. Identifying novel product uses, including brainstorming, literature review, and going to conferences or on site and interfacing with other physicians. This includes writing internal reviews of what products might be good for or to look for new ways to use the products.
3. Reviewing grants submitted to the company for funding and papers related to the product where the company was involved.
4. Discussing how a prototype device might work and how it could be most useful to physicians.



I took a year out of my residency to do this--my research year. When I was a graduating MD/PhD, I tried to find a residency to support me to do a certain area of physics related rad onc research. The chair where I matched was interested in that, but when I arrived to start residency many of the faculty who interviewed me and the chair were gone. I was told point blank that I couldn't do the research I wanted to do. So I asked around at ASTRO to industry if they'd be interested in me and that's how I found my position. Rather than do a Holman, which was my plan before residency, I took a year of research to do it. Nobody was particularly concerned about me going away for a year since my in-service exam scores even in year one were almost 99th percentile in every section, I published a lot while I was there, and I worked hard and was well liked on clinical service.

My salary was paid directly to the institution. My understanding is that industry just paid my residency salary and benefits, and I kept getting paid as usual for a resident. They paid for housing for me while I was there. I made nothing additional. A lot of people thought I was getting rich or living on a high horse off of it, but I wasn't. I flew coach and had a limited budget for travel just like in academics. This was true even for the more senior MDs. In fact, their life was a bit tougher because there are some pretty senior people (MDs and PhDs) flying frequently all around the world in coach class with a lot of redeyes to conferences and site visits.

As for what individuals make, everyone is individually negotiated. I was told that it's hard to get above $200k unless you're C-level, and even then it's CEO types who make the kinds of salaries that clinical MDs make. Thus, only the large companies have one or two MDs on staff. They are looking for more MDs, but they want to pay more like residency/fellow/instuctor level salaries, maybe $100-$200k unless you are already a big named, well-established rad onc and then I just really don't know what they're getting paid though that's a very small number of people (maybe 1-2 in the world at any given time).

Of the people I know who do it longer term, they come in two camps generally.
1. Semi-retired, out of clinical practice and aren't going back. They do this until they decide to retire.
2. 50% clinical as an internal locums or with a very understanding institution and 50% with the company. The salary might be split like $150k here and $150k there. When I write "very understanding institution", this has happened, and was on the table for me, but we could not find an academic institution interested in a shared academic-industry arrangement in my case.

There are exceptions. I know someone who was taking a break from clinical work for reasons I don't want to go into, but did plan for it to be temporary and to go back to clinical practice.

The problem with industry in rad onc is that there are only 3-4 companies that hire MDs (Varian, Elekta, Accuray, Viewray), so it's hard to jump around. There are maybe 5-10 positions for this in the world. If your job dries up or the company struggles, there is very little mobility. However, they certainly did like having me and have looked for people similar to me, but again they are not looking to pay attending level salaries for the help. Also, industry funding is pretty fickle. Some years they'll have the R&D budget and managerial staff to approve an experiment like myself, but other years they won't. Some years they'll want a second MD in a medical affairs sort of role, other years they won't.



Very interesting and enjoyable. Got to live in another part of the world and see something very different. It's hard to move up in industry. The best way to get ahead in industry is to make your company and get bought out. That buyout not only includes money for you, but will also often include a good position in the company buying you out. I already discussed the relatively low pay and job insecurity. So I work in academics nowadays. I'd consider going back to industry some day with the right offer or maybe 20 years from now if I want to semi-retire and there's a position for me.

What I'm most impressed by are your in-service exam scores, which are easily the worst written exams in the history of medicine.