Injecting your children with growth hormone

[yaah]

So, there was a story on CNN this morning about parents injecting their children with growth hormone because they are too small. They feel their children are the object of scorn and ridicule, and they will face difficulties as they get older if they are too short. So they pay tens of thousands of dollars to give little Johnny another 2-3 inches of height.

What happened to waiting for puberty? The kid they focused on in the story was short when he was like 10 years old, so they injected him. WTF? I had my growth spurt at 14 when I went from middle of the class in terms of height to tallest in the class. I guess since I am taller than average maybe I am biased, but I cannot fathom giving my kid growth hormone to make him 5'9" instead of 5'6". It's disgusting.

Growth hormone, most likely, is not an innocuous drug. I can't imagine there not being an increased risk of cancer or other health problems.

People really consider doing this? Are people this superficial? Everyone seems to complain about how the "rest of the world" is going to treat them differently if they are shorter. Really? Do I have more respect for someone who is taller just because they are taller? NO! Does anyone?

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[tkim]

Reminds me of the story out of China how people have their femurs broken and reset continually in order to gain 1-2 inches of height because they think taller is better. I think I'd rather get shots instead.

 

[sara3426]

I had a friend (a girl) who had this done in high school, and I can understand it. It's not for middle-of-the-class kids in height. This girl was fifteen and she looked as if she were 10 or 11. She was like 4'8", tiny stature, skinny, baby face. Guys weren't interested in her because they felt like perverts. So she got it done, and she grew a little bigger, a little wider, her face matured a little.
Is it safe? I don't know. But it certainly changed her high school and college years, which to her, were very worth it.

 

[THP]

Reminds me of the story out of China how people have their femurs broken and reset continually in order to gain 1-2 inches of height because they think taller is better. I think I'd rather get shots instead.

Wuss

 

[McDoctor]

I wonder how much CNN distorted this. I view the network as a form of entertainment at this point.

Still, it doesn't sound any crazier than smoking cigarettes.

 

[mshheaddoc]

It was my understanding that this was only used for children who were on the extreme short side of the stick, particular females in order to help with the menstrual cycle and what not. (If I'm recalling the information I had read about it correctly).

I agree that its not really worth it to use on average size humans and wouldn't the risks outweight the benefits. If I remember some of the side effects can have a heavy tag on them ... I'll have to do some journal searching on this.

 

[yaah]

Well, the kid in the story was projected to be a 5'5" adult based on his growth chart (I think), and now he will be 5'8 or 9. I don't think that's the extreme end.

 

[Callogician]

Well, the kid in the story was projected to be a 5'5" adult based on his growth chart (I think), and now he will be 5'8 or 9. I don't think that's the extreme end.

The difference between 5'5" and 5'8 is enourmous. If the treatment is fairly safe, I can't blame the parents. The real problem here is that the increase in height only helps the child to compete in society in career and [especially] sexual competition. It's a zero sum game in the end. Society will not be one bit better if some of us are made taller pharmacologically.

 

[kate_g]

The real problem here is that the increase in height only helps the child to compete in society in career and [especially] sexual competition.

You bring up an interesting point... Evolutionarily, he's faking it. He hasn't got the genes to back up a 5'9" frame. His progeny will be just as short as he would have been without the drug. So women will be attracted to this tall strong guy (I suspect growth hormone gives you better muscle development as well as longer bones) but they'll be evolutionarily hoodwinked and end up with scrawny kids. It's like experimenters gluing big tail feathers onto a wimpy bird and suddenly all the lady birds want to jump him. Or like an otherwise ugly girl with huge breast implants, maybe...

(I know growth hormone replacement is used with kids that have a legitimate pituitary deficiency - it's called pituitary dwarfism, or hormonal dwarfism, or something like that. This actually used to involve collecting pituitary glands from cadavers to isolate the hormone. They must have a synthetic now, because I think they stopped using human pituitaries because of the risk of CJD. I guess I'm not surprised that a rich mommy and daddy can convince a doctor to "diagnose" their kid, or just buy the treatment outright...)

 

[NiteOwl]

No, 5'5" isn't the extreme end. It isn't tall, but it isn't abnormal or anything. It is disgusting that parents do this to their kids. How do you explain that to a kid anyway? I can't imagine that they are happy to be getting jabbed with needles, so when they are asking why they have to get so many shots what are their parents telling them? "So you won't be short."? Ah, make your kid into a person that thinks only looks are important while you shatter their self esteem by making them think they aren't tall enough. And really are the kids that had this done growing up and saying "OMG, thanks mom and dad! I am so happy you took me to the doctor and gave me growth hormone so I could be 3 inches taller! I love you!". No, there are going to be some kids that are going to be asking "Why did you do that to me?", because they would rather have not been given hormones.

 

[erleichda]

No, 5'5" isn't the extreme end. It isn't tall, but it isn't abnormal or anything. It is disgusting that parents do this to their kids. How do you explain that to a kid anyway? I can't imagine that they are happy to be getting jabbed with needles, so when they are asking why they have to get so many shots what are their parents telling them? "So you won't be short."? Ah, make your kid into a person that thinks only looks are important while you shatter their self esteem by making them think they aren't tall enough. And really are the kids that had this done growing up and saying "OMG, thanks mom and dad! I am so happy you took me to the doctor and gave me growth hormone so I could be 3 inches taller! I love you!". No, there are going to be some kids that are going to be asking "Why did you do that to me?", because they would rather have not been given hormones.

I have to say that although at first I wanted to blame the parents, it's not that simple when you think about it. I dated a guy who was my height (5'3") and he received the growth hormone shots when he was in his teens. He would have probably been around 5" without them. When I was dating him my friends and everyone else constantly pointed out and laughed at how short he was. His friends had all kinds of "cute" names for him. It made me feel very uncomfortable, and I guess he had already come to terms with it. But I'm sure his life was easier in our society being 5'3" and not 5" ...

 

[Baby Einstein]

No, 5'5" isn't the extreme end. It isn't tall, but it isn't abnormal or anything. It is disgusting that parents do this to their kids. How do you explain that to a kid anyway? I can't imagine that they are happy to be getting jabbed with needles, so when they are asking why they have to get so many shots what are their parents telling them? "So you won't be short."? Ah, make your kid into a person that thinks only looks are important while you shatter their self esteem by making them think they aren't tall enough. And really are the kids that had this done growing up and saying "OMG, thanks mom and dad! I am so happy you took me to the doctor and gave me growth hormone so I could be 3 inches taller! I love you!". No, there are going to be some kids that are going to be asking "Why did you do that to me?", because they would rather have not been given hormones.

It's not all that different from taking your kid to the orthodontist to get straighter teeth. Sure it's more invasive, but if I follow your argument about self-esteem and wanting to change your kid's appearance, no one should get braces until they're in their 20s either. Also, society values height a lot. I read a study saying there is a direct correlation between height and salary. Maybe it's just a case of parents wanting to give their kid the best start in life?

 

[mshheaddoc]

I find messing with your endocrine system alot different then fixing your teeth. Most of these treatements are used for children with valid diseases such as growth hormone deficiency (inability to produce enough growth hormone), kidney disease, Prader-Willi Syndrome (PWS), and Turner's syndrome. reference

And there hasn't been enough information out there on how healthy children who want to get a few inches would react. Many of these treats are for patients with other medical conditionals (at least that is what my search on pubmed turned up).

Again are people playing with evolution? (which you can either be for or against). This isn't going to change the fact that your genes are "short" per se. There is no rule that short people don't survive. Everyone gets made fun of for something. I see some of your arguments of "giving the kid a start in life" in reference to height vs. money argument but seriously, I guess I don't buy into all of that.

I don't see how the risks right now at this point, outweight the benefit of growing 2-3 inches if you are a healthy child that will probably be 5'4.

 

[oompaloompa]

I feel compelled to weigh in on this because of personal experience. I am a 25 yo guy and about 5'2". I tried to take the growth hormone treatment but had to discontinue it due to the side effects(no recombinant products at that time). I was only 14 and all my friends tried to tell me it didn't matter. Unfortunately, it DOES matter. If it would have worked, I would go back and take every single injection even if I puked every 20 minutes.

The truth is, we live in a society that values appearence. I think sometimes its easy to condemn people taking these treatments if such measures are not necessary on themselves. Like a previous poster said, it may seem ridiculous to a person with naturally perfect teeth to spend 5G's to put metal wires on them, but it makes all the difference in world to the person who wouldn't ever smile otherwise.

Every single interaction I have is affected by appearence, as with everyone else. For obvious reasons, height commands a certain amount of respect, especially in a situation when all you know about a person is what they look like. On many occasions I've had people I don't even know call me "littleman" or "short stuff", even when my white coat and ID is clearly visible. I realize that I look young and that they are mostly trying to be cute, but they would be extremely offended if a stranger spoke to them in this manner. I just count my blessings I'm in medicine, which is still (somewhat) of a meritocracy. If I were in business, I'd be screwed, image is everything.

Also to touch on what was previously mentioned, it absolutely matters when it comes to dating, mainly for guys. Guys are (in a general sense) mostly restricted to girls around their height or below. Meaning no offense( we can be honest) a short guy is kind of analogous to a fat girl. Meaning that even if they were great in every other aspect, you still wouldn't consider dating them. And it's okay, people are programmed by society and biology to feel this way, so there's no holding it against them. Unfortunately, while the fat girl can lose weight, there's no "height gain" programs.

Anyway, I apologize for the rant, but the issue was a little close to home. I've pretty much come to terms which my situation but I hope you understand when someone who hasn't experienced it declares it a nonissue. It's my stance that its right and natural to want to spare your children pain and not to be disadvantaged later in life. Now if you want your 6' son to have a little edge in basketball or your 5'8" daughter to be tall enough to model -- I think it's excessive, but a far cry from "child abuse" as someone said.

 

[astrife]

Many of you seem to find this type of treatment to be absolutely ridiculous and unwarranted. And it's your right to have these opinions, but I also must mention that as long as there are no documented adverse reactions to this treatment then it is the parents right to do whatever they want with their child.

I know if I was a short kid I would want the treatment as it's painfully obvious how much height in males is valued in our society. So state your opinions, but honestly who are you to judge these parents?

 

[NiteOwl]

It's not all that different from taking your kid to the orthodontist to get straighter teeth. Sure it's more invasive, but if I follow your argument about self-esteem and wanting to change your kid's appearance, no one should get braces until they're in their 20s either. Also, society values height a lot. I read a study saying there is a direct correlation between height and salary. Maybe it's just a case of parents wanting to give their kid the best start in life?

It is very different. With braces you arent injecting hormones into the kids body. That and a lot of times braces are given for more valid reasons than just to appearance. Some people need braces to straighten teeth because they are crooked and kind of overlaping or turned in awkward positions that cause difficulty cleaning, bite problems etc.

 

[qwopty99]

if there was a drug u could inject to make u more pretty (or boys more handsome), or more intelligent, or more socially accepted, would u inject it?

 

[mshheaddoc]

Many of you seem to find this type of treatment to be absolutely ridiculous and unwarranted. And it's your right to have these opinions, but I also must mention that as long as there are no documented adverse reactions to this treatment then it is the parents right to do whatever they want with their child.

I know if I was a short kid I would want the treatment as it's painfully obvious how much height in males is valued in our society. So state your opinions, but honestly who are you to judge these parents?

I guess you haven't noticed that there ARE documented adverse reactions.

I guess I just know tons of short guys who find a way to make it through life, tough skin and all. Everyone has their flaws, but as I said before, subjecting a HEALTHY child to this without major hormone deficiencies really is experimental at this point as most research has been on the syndromes I listed above. If you have access to current research on healthy children I'd love to read on it.

I'm just more concerned with the child's health rather than social stigma. As someone who is not short but was made fun of a good portion of her life, I don't see social stigma as a great excuse.

 

[beetlerum]

I guess you haven't noticed that there ARE documented adverse reactions.

I guess I just know tons of short guys who find a way to make it through life, tough skin and all. Everyone has their flaws, but as I said before, subjecting a HEALTHY child to this without major hormone deficiencies really is experimental at this point as most research has been on the syndromes I listed above. If you have access to current research on healthy children I'd love to read on it.

I'm just more concerned with the child's health rather than social stigma. As someone who is not short but was made fun of a good portion of her life, I don't see social stigma as a great excuse.

Frankly, that is a narrow-minded typical doctor's view. It's okay for you to consider only health, but the parents can, and should, consider the overall well being of their child. Now I can't say for sure how the risk/reward should come out for a kid headed for 5 5. But I will say that the difference between 5 5 and 5 9 is profound, at least as far as attracting women and succeeding in certain professions. It's all well and good to resort to some cliches about how it's what's inside that counts and how we live in a shallow world, but that's the way it is. The guy who's 5 2 is definitely most qualified to say on this and you saw what he had to say.

Edit: And I don't know what this has to do with excuses or not excuses. If you're short and you can't do anything about it, you deal with it. But if you can take steps to avoid the problem, you do. I can't speak from the perspective of a guy who's 5 2, but it seems that the real bad thing about being a very short guy is not being made fun of when you're a kid. It's the fact that it stays with you as an adult when you're working on a career and wanting to meet girls.

 

[mshheaddoc]

And you yourself said you had to stop the growth hormone because of side effects. All's my point is that I am looking from the perspective of a healthy child and the side effects. I understand your pain as I had a friend who was also extremely short but he just dealt with it and moved on. I don't mean to sound "narrow-minded" or callous I'm just calling it like it is from a medical perspective. If the medical bads outweight the social goods, then how is this really helping the child? Which is why I put out the call if anyone had any research links on normal healthy children. I couldn't find much information on this treatment while searching PubMed that wasn't used on medically sick children.

I agree that we will disagree on views but I'm just asking for evidence.

 

[beetlerum]

If the medical bads outweight the social goods, then how is this really helping the child? Which is why I put out the call if anyone had any research links on normal healthy children. I couldn't find much information on this treatment while searching PubMed that wasn't used on medically sick children.

I agree that we will disagree on views but I'm just asking for evidence.

I think we all agree that if the medical bads outweigh the social goods, it shouldn't be done. The dispute seems to be over the magnitude of the social goods. My point, and I think that of several others, is that extreme shortness is a serious issue that should be treated as such. It shouldn't be dismissed by saying "stop whining and making excuses" any more than you would say that to someone with a mental illness, a learning disability, or mental ******ation. Now, once there's nothing that can be done, that's when you can say "stop whining and deal with it."

Also note that the 5 2 guy said that in retrospect he would have continued the treatments, but regardless, the fact that he experienced side effects doesn't mean it was wrong to try the treatments. And I certainly don't think that his parents should be faulted for doing something to help their son.

 

[Andre04]

Would it be okay to inject black children with hormones to make them whiter? I mean, if it improved "overall well-being" by helping them fit in -- what's the harm?

Heightism is every bit as real a prejudice as racism or sexism. I find it disgusting that doctors would participate in so harmful a method of making little kids "fit in" to society. Blech.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I think we all agree that if the medical bads outweigh the social goods, it shouldn't be done. The dispute seems to be over the magnitude of the social goods. My point, and I think that of several others, is that extreme shortness is a serious issue that should be treated as such. It shouldn't be dismissed by saying "stop whining and making excuses" any more than you would say that to someone with a mental illness, a learning disability, or mental ******ation. Now, once there's nothing that can be done, that's when you can say "stop whining and deal with it."

And I certainly don't think that his parents should be faulted for doing something to help their son.

I am part of the group that is more interested in the medical aspects than social. Yes socially this is a hard issue. I don't want to step on anyones toes but I truly do not see the worth until I see the research. From a social aspect genetically this isn't going to change anything. Natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc etc. I'm not being close-minded, I'm being realistic. I understand its hard for people to go through life with different "handicaps" lets call them. But there are some people that see this as shallow, and others who really just question it socially. My honest opinion is that I'm on both sides. I think this is a great discussion but along the same lines I thing its ridiculous that parents are subjecting their kids to this at an early age. I understand there is only a short window in which to do this and yes you can estimate height at an early age. This is just my opinion though.


Its interesting to see the evidence that supports salary related to height and other sociological aspects. We should post more of this data and discuss rather than trying to say "no i'm right and your opinion is wrong".

If growth hormones are like plastic surgery and braces, you can have for both for cosmetic and medical reasons, and not everyone agrees with those either.

 

[Baby Einstein]

It is very different. With braces you arent injecting hormones into the kids body. That and a lot of times braces are given for more valid reasons than just to appearance. Some people need braces to straighten teeth because they are crooked and kind of overlaping or turned in awkward positions that cause difficulty cleaning, bite problems etc.

You misread my post. I'm not saying I support it nor that it is the same thing in all respects. I already acknowledged that it is much more invasive. I was just citing the braces because someone said the growth hormone shouldn't be done because it would be messing up with the child's self-esteem, telling the child he wasn't "right" to begin with. In that respect and that respect alone, growth hormone and braces are the same thing, assuming braces are for cosmetic or social reasons (which is the majority of cases). I was just playing the devil's advocate. To me, the self-esteem argument doesn't hold. The medical side effects are a different story.

 

[oompaloompa]

From a social aspect genetically this isn't going to change anything. Natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc etc. I'm not being close-minded, I'm being realistic. I understand its hard for people to go through life with different "handicaps" lets call them. But there are some people that see this as shallow, and others who really just question it socially.

I realize that you are looking at this from a purely intellectual standpoint as an interesting sociobiological anomaly and that you sound like a reasonable person. I might feel the same as you if I was not so "personally invested." And let me also say that I fully anticipated lots of "suck it up, you big whiner" posts, and I should have made it more clear that I don't expect anyone to play me a sad violin, I made it alright. I can even have a sense of humor about it, look at my screen name for crying out loud. However, you will never hear me say it didn't matter or that my life wouldn't have been or could now be better. Also, let me point out I took the primate-extracted version which has more side effects than the considerably safer recombinant version. But I still don't regret it, and I stand by me assertion that if there was someway to go back and do it, I would. To you, 3-4 inches may be pittance, but to some people that's the difference between a job, a girlfriend, or not getting singled out to get your ass kicked.

Anyway, I wanted to say essentially that I agree with you that there are risks, but there's a risk/benefit ratio to basically everything in medicine and that scale varies widely depending on the individual. What's worth the risk for you is different for someone else, so for a doctor empathy may be more appropriate than blanket condemnation.

On a minor note, I thought about someone presenting the "natural selection" argument to a parent considering the treatment and I laughed out loud. I can not imagine a single parent giving a rat's ass about population genetics when their kid is unhappy or getting picked on. Honestly people, we're talking about hormone therapy here, not eugenics.

Well, thanks to everyone everyone for weighing in on this and being(mostly) considerate.

 

[astrife]

Would it be okay to inject black children with hormones to make them whiter? I mean, if it improved "overall well-being" by helping them fit in -- what's the harm?

Heightism is every bit as real a prejudice as racism or sexism. I find it disgusting that doctors would participate in so harmful a method of making little kids "fit in" to society. Blech.

Are you kidding me? You can be as self-righteous as you want to be about prejudice, but that does not negate the effect that physical appearances do matter in this world and that will never ever change no matter how many over the top politically correct people there are in this world.

Is a happier life worth undermining the principle of not changing to fit society's mold? I would think it most certainly is.

 

[mshheaddoc]

From a social aspect genetically this isn't going to change anything. Natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc etc. I'm not being close-minded, I'm being realistic. I understand its hard for people to go through life with different "handicaps" lets call them. But there are some people that see this as shallow, and others who really just question it socially.

I realize that you are looking at this from a purely intellectual standpoint as an interesting sociobiological anomaly and that you sound like a reasonable person. I might feel the same as you if I was not so "personally invested." And let me also say that I fully anticipated lots of "suck it up, you big whiner" posts, and I should have made it more clear that I don't expect anyone to play me a sad violin, I made it alright. I can even have a sense of humor about it, look at my screen name for crying out loud. However, you will never hear me say it didn't matter or that my life wouldn't have been or could now be better. Also, let me point out I took the primate-extracted version which has more side effects than the considerably safer recombinant version. But I still don't regret it, and I stand by me assertion that if there was someway to go back and do it, I would. To you, 3-4 inches may be pittance, but to some people that's the difference between a job, a girlfriend, or not getting singled out to get your ass kicked.

Anyway, I wanted to say essentially that I agree with you that there are risks, but there's a risk/benefit ratio to basically everything in medicine and that scale varies widely depending on the individual. What's worth the risk for you is different for someone else, so for a doctor empathy may be more appropriate than blanket condemnation.

On a minor note, I thought about someone presenting the "natural selection" argument to a parent considering the treatment and I laughed out loud. I can not imagine a single parent giving a rat's ass about population genetics when their kid is unhappy or getting picked on. Honestly people, we're talking about hormone therapy here, not eugenics.

Well, thanks to everyone everyone for weighing in on this and being(mostly) considerate.

And I do not want it to seem that I'm adding to the "making fun" bunch or that I'm insensitive. I can see and understand that height does play a role in today's society. I also can see that everyone is different in good and bad ways. Some people use what some consider drastic techniques because genetically they may have "big bones" some are short, some are too tall. I suppose I see people for who they are and if a person looks down on someone for being different then that is their closemindedness. Unfortunately, back to reality for me when that isn't what the majority of people in the world really think. Especially in judgmental stages of early life. I suppose I am just a natural person happy the way I am with my imperfections. But that being said, I can only empathize with what you have been through (and what you have conveyed) in your life. Its not easy and not everyone will agree but if people truly believe that this will have more help than harm to a child, who is it that someone should stand in the way? Being 5'5 you still might be made fun of, will that change things? It may help, but who knows?

I am not well versed in growth hormones therefore I would like to use this thread to research and find out what IS good out there. I think there is potential here and although I question its use, that doesn't mean I'm against it.

With that said

I realize that you are looking at this from a purely intellectual standpoint as an interesting sociobiological anomaly and that you sound like a reasonable person.

Thank you for understanding my viewpoint. I do not mean to offend anyone. But like any new discovery in medicine, we question. Like you said, they have improved on the hormones. Maybe with pharmacogenetics this can further the field to help people in the future.

 

[NiteOwl]

You misread my post. I'm not saying I support it nor that it is the same thing in all respects. I already acknowledged that it is much more invasive. I was just citing the braces because someone said the growth hormone shouldn't be done because it would be messing up with the child's self-esteem, telling the child he wasn't "right" to begin with. In that respect and that respect alone, growth hormone and braces are the same thing, assuming braces are for cosmetic or social reasons (which is the majority of cases). I was just playing the devil's advocate. To me, the self-esteem argument doesn't hold. The medical side effects are a different story.

But a lot of times the braces are also the kids choice if it is done for cosmetic reasons (if it is done in the teen years). I haven't heard of too many cases of parents making kids get them at age 10 for cosmetic reasons. But there are parents making kids get hormone treatments. I think that the hormone treatments should be held off until puberty, if they never grow then they can get the treatment if they want to, not because their parents want them to. That way it isn't telling the kid "you aren't normal enough" at a young age. And also the kid is old enough to understand the pro's and con's and understand the side effects and what can happen if he or she takes the treatment.

 

[NiteOwl]

if there was a drug u could inject to make u more pretty (or boys more handsome), or more intelligent, or more socially accepted, would u inject it?

I wouldn't get the appearance injection, but maybe the intelligence one. I would never inject a child with it though, nor should anyone be allowed to give that to a child if such things existed. If there were drugs like that I would say it would have to be given only under the patients consent (no parents making their kids get it so that they can be "the best" or whatever. There would have to be an age limit where you have to be a certain age to receive it.). Also the drug would have to be safe.

 

[qwopty99]

for those who can't comprehend why people would do such a thing (inject growth hormone) - is this really any different than baseball players injecting themselves in order to hit 70++ home runs, or sprinters injecting themselves in order to run sub-9.80, or cyclists injecting themselves in order to win a tour de france?

don't disregard my examples as being extreme (i.e. of course u'd do it to win an olympic gold medal, but NOT just to gain a few inches) - everyone has their own priorities in life.

 

[Baby Einstein]

for those who can't comprehend why people would do such a thing (inject growth hormone) - is this really any different than baseball players injecting themselves in order to hit 70++ home runs, or sprinters injecting themselves in order to run sub-9.80, or cyclists injecting themselves in order to win a tour de france?

don't disregard my examples as being extreme (i.e. of course u'd do it to win an olympic gold medal, but NOT just to gain a few inches) - everyone has their own priorities in life.

Yes but the athletes are doing it to themselves, not to their unconsenting kids.

 

[Baby Einstein]

But a lot of times the braces are also the kids choice if it is done for cosmetic reasons (if it is done in the teen years). I haven't heard of too many cases of parents making kids get them at age 10 for cosmetic reasons. But there are parents making kids get hormone treatments. I think that the hormone treatments should be held off until puberty, if they never grow then they can get the treatment if they want to, not because their parents want them to. That way it isn't telling the kid "you aren't normal enough" at a young age. And also the kid is old enough to understand the pro's and con's and understand the side effects and what can happen if he or she takes the treatment.

I agree with you. The problem is, I'm pretty sure by the time the kid can truly consent, it's too late for the treatment to affect his growth. It has to be done at a young age or it won't work. Again, I'm not advocating it, just trying to understand the parents.

 

[Andre04]

Are you kidding me? You can be as self-righteous as you want to be about prejudice, but that does not negate the effect that physical appearances do matter in this world and that will never ever change no matter how many over the top politically correct people there are in this world.

People have said the same about other prejudices in the past.

Black people and white people can't get along that well. We evolved to be separate. Separate facilities are just a concession to this fact.

Women aren't that smart. Why open up educational institutions to them.

Disabled people can't do things fully abled people can. Why bother making any concessions to them.

Short people aren't that attractive. Why shouldn't we inject our short kids with hormones so they fit in better. Who cares about side effects, they'll be happy. If not healthy (who cares about healthy? Seriously, short kids are SO FUNNY LOOKING).

Fact is every prejudice in the past has been viewed as part and parcel of some unchanging law -- the way things are and always should be.

I call BS. I think there's something really, really wrong with sticking perfectly healthy kids full of hormones -- like cattle on a feedlot -- in the name of "attractiveness" or whatever euphemism you prefer for the fact that you don't like short people. If that makes me an over the top politically correct person, I'm okay with that. At least I wouldn't

Is a happier life worth undermining the principle of not changing to fit society's mold? I would think it most certainly is.

Doctors should not be mutilating perfectly healthy bodies (especially children who have less choice and foresight about what they're doing) to "fit society's mold." I think there's an oath about that or something ... I forget. Seems everyone else has too.

 

[LADoc00]

Are you kidding me? You can be as self-righteous as you want to be about prejudice, but that does not negate the effect that physical appearances do matter in this world and that will never ever change no matter how many over the top politically correct people there are in this world.

Is a happier life worth undermining the principle of not changing to fit society's mold? I would think it most certainly is.

Hahahah, I totally agree with you.

Appearence isnt everything but DAMN it is alot. A short guy is at a huge disadvantage for life and not just sexually.

 

[Baby Einstein]

Doctors should not be mutilating perfectly healthy bodies (especially children who have less choice and foresight about what they're doing) to "fit society's mold." I think there's an oath about that or something ... I forget. Seems everyone else has too.

Don't want to bring back an old debate, but how about circumcision then? It is a mutilation of the perfectly healthy body of a child who cannot give consent. Yet MOST people think it is perfectly acceptable because society has made it acceptable.

 

[DoctaJay]

Using the excuse that "society expect such and such" is the problem. Everyone wants to look like someone else, instead of finally learning to love themselves for who they are; that is why cosmetic surgeons are having a hayday, because people can't like themselves. They want bigger calves, bigger breast, skinner waist, bigger penis, less wrinkles, etc.

The grass is always greener on the other side. I'm tall, very tall (6'5) and I used to complain about it. I didn't like that I had to order most of my pants from catalogs; I didn't like that I had to bend down (significantly) to kiss most of my girl friends; I didn't like getting asked that stupid question "how is the air up there"; I didn't like for the first thing people asked me to be "Do you play basketball"; etc. I wanted to look just like my best friend, who was around 5'9, light skin, curly hair, light eyes, etc. I thought...man, if I was like him, then all the girls would like me. One of the happiest days of my life was finally learning to accept what God gave me; my height, my face, my complexion, my voice, my fingers, my ears; everything.

If the kid has some kind of dwarfism, then go for it...inject them. If not though, I really believe that people just need to accept their lot. That is what makes life interesting and diverse.

 

[kate_g]

If the kid has some kind of dwarfism, then go for it...inject them.

Heh... I know you didn't mean to step in this, but there's a pretty strong "little people" activism contingent that would argue exactly the opposite... You're OK with being really tall, with your complexion and your ears and all that... But somebody with dwarfism (a genetic condition much like your genetic tallness) should get medical help? Why not just accept *them* for what they are the way you've accepted yourself? They've gotta buy specially made clothes too, after all...

As a more general comment for the thread, I dunno where the "parents forcing kids to get injections" came from - maybe that was implied in the original article, I didn't read it. But I've got to say, 10-year-old kids are *way* more sensitive to social issues than any adult I know. I was a short kid; I knew some other short kids. If you'd offered any of us shots that would magically make us grow to average height, you bet we would have gone for it. Does that make my 10-year-old self shallow? Yeah, but find me a 10-year-old who's not! Now as an adult, I'm 5'2" which is not actually extreme for a female. I get along OK. I get to ask the tall guys in my office to do stuff for me because I can't reach it or am too small to carry it. And shortness for females is *much* less of a stigma than for males. Buying clothes is a pain in the butt, but I'm not sitting here desperately wishing I'd been given growth hormone. But when I was 10 you wouldn't have had to ask me twice.

 

[beetlerum]

Don't want to bring back an old debate, but how about circumcision then? It is a mutilation of the perfectly healthy body of a child who cannot give consent. Yet MOST people think it is perfectly acceptable because society has made it acceptable.

While I applaud you for being skeptical of things that appear to be accepted only because culture, this comparison doesn't work. Society doesn't say that injecting growth hormones is accepted. If anything, it's the opposite. Circumcision, on the other hand, is done routinely in this country. In fact, I would argue the opposite. These parents are actually resisting social pressures (look at how people have condemned the parents on this thread) because they've done a careful cost/benefit analysis and found it comes out in favor of growth hormone. The child can't consent. In a sense, the parents are forced to make the decision, no matter what they do. Not injecting is a decision as well because it's irrevocable.

 

[Baby Einstein]

While I applaud you for being skeptical of things that appear to be accepted only because culture, this comparison doesn't work. Society doesn't say that injecting growth hormones is accepted. If anything, it's the opposite. Circumcision, on the other hand, is done routinely in this country. In fact, I would argue the opposite. These parents are actually resisting social pressures (look at how people have condemned the parents on this thread) because they've done a careful cost/benefit analysis and found it comes out in favor of growth hormone. The child can't consent. In a sense, the parents are forced to make the decision, no matter what they do. Not injecting is a decision as well because it's irrevocable.

I agree with you. It's easy to criticize the parents (as non-parents LOVE to do) and to judge their reasons as shallow. But how many parents would put their children at risk for purely cosmetic reasons?

I didn't mean to compare circumcision to GH injections. I was just talking about circumcision to reply to this person's argument about the oath:

Doctors should not be mutilating perfectly healthy bodies (especially children who have less choice and foresight about what they're doing) to "fit society's mold." I think there's an oath about that or something ... I forget. Seems everyone else has too.

If the oath is the basis for not giving growth hormones, something as commonplace as circumcision should be prohibited too, if one follows his argument. That's all. I understand your point about the parents NOT fitting into the mold (or not complying with society's expectations), but Andre's point was that goal of the injections is to have children fit into the mold. In that respect, it's similar to circumcision too, as many parents don't want their boys to be different from daddy or from their classmates. But let's not highjack this thread with circumcision...

 

[NiteOwl]

I agree with you. The problem is, I'm pretty sure by the time the kid can truly consent, it's too late for the treatment to affect his growth. It has to be done at a young age or it won't work. Again, I'm not advocating it, just trying to understand the parents.

Well, they could wait until the kid is a teen to get the treatment. It would still work as long as they did it before the epiphyseal plates harden, and that doesn't happen until the teen years. So the treatment could be put off until puberty, if the kid doesn't have a growth spurt, then they can have a choice. That way they can give consent. I think a teen is old enough to give consent, its better than giving it to a smaller kid who can't give consent.

You can have your opinion on it. I just can't understand how a parent can do that to a child, especially if it is to make them 5'8" instead of 5'5".

 

[beetlerum]

Well, they could wait until the kid is a teen to get the treatment. It would still work as long as they did it before the epiphyseal plates harden, and that doesn't happen until the teen years. So the treatment could be put off until puberty, if the kid doesn't have a growth spurt, then they can have a choice. That way they can give consent. I think a teen is old enough to give consent, its better than giving it to a smaller kid who can't give consent.

You can have your opinion on it. I just can't understand how a parent can do that to a child, especially if it is to make them 5'8" instead of 5'5".

It's great that you personally don't care about height (presumably would not let a few inches of height affect whether you'd date a guy) but the reality is that height matters, a lot, for dating and in many other ways. And the difference between 5 5 and 5 8 is pretty huge. 5 8 is close to average. You are a little short but not glaringly so. You are also taller than a much larger percentage of women, and most women will not date men shorter than they are. At 5 5, on the other hand, you are very short and it will drastically limit your dating options and your career options. So I can understand why a parent would consider hormones to make their kid 5 8 instead of 5 5.

 

[Baby Einstein]

Well, they could wait until the kid is a teen to get the treatment. It would still work as long as they did it before the epiphyseal plates harden, and that doesn't happen until the teen years. So the treatment could be put off until puberty, if the kid doesn't have a growth spurt, then they can have a choice. That way they can give consent. I think a teen is old enough to give consent, its better than giving it to a smaller kid who can't give consent.

You can have your opinion on it. I just can't understand how a parent can do that to a child, especially if it is to make them 5'8" instead of 5'5".

Again, I'm not advocating it! I don't think I would do it to my child, especially if he's only destined to be "a little" short. I don't really have an answer to this debate, but as a parent, I have learned not to judge other parents for their decisions because we are all trying to do the best for our kids.

I would just reply to you that
1) I doubt the treatment is as effective in teens, but assuming it is
2) I still think parents are in a better position than a young teen to choose because, as someone pointed out, teens are EXTREMELY sensitive to social issues. Teens have notoriously low self-confidence and a desperate need to fit in. Go ask a 13-year old girl if she would like to take hormones to have bigger breasts. They all want to look like the cutest girl in school or whatever actress is trendy at the time. I don't think a teen is competent to make that kind of decision, since the issue is mostly social.

So should the parents decide to do it? I don't know. Should the teens decide by themselves? Absolutely not. But I agree with you that if kid and parents agree, it seems to be the best option (assuming treatment is still effective). But I'm pretty sure that the majority of the teens will agree. So the question becomes should the parents let them do it?

 

[NiteOwl]

Again, I'm not advocating it! I don't think I would do it to my child, especially if he's only destined to be "a little" short. I don't really have an answer to this debate, but as a parent, I have learned not to judge other parents for their decisions because we are all trying to do the best for our kids.

I would just reply to you that
1) I doubt the treatment is as effective in teens, but assuming it is
2) I still think parents are in a better position than a young teen to choose because, as someone pointed out, teens are EXTREMELY sensitive to social issues. Teens have notoriously low self-confidence and a desperate need to fit in. Go ask a 13-year old girl if she would like to take hormones to have bigger breasts. They all want to look like the cutest girl in school or whatever actress is trendy at the time. I don't think a teen is competent to make that kind of decision, since the issue is mostly social.

So should the parents decide to do it? I don't know. Should the teens decide by themselves? Absolutely not. But I agree with you that if kid and parents agree, it seems to be the best option (assuming treatment is still effective). But I'm pretty sure that the majority of the teens will agree. So the question becomes should the parents let them do it?

I know you said you were not advocating it. I was just saying why I thought the parents were wrong.

Yes teens have social issues. But if a parent is going to the extreme of injecting their kid with growth hormone, especially in the 5'5" cases, then I think the parent has some social issues. If an adult is honestly going "Oh, Timmy is going to be picked on because he is 5'5". I better shoot him up with growth hormones." They have just as much social issues as the teens who are sensitive to criticism.

But yes, its when the parents and the kids agree is when it should be done. If only the parent wants it and the kid doesn't want it, then it shouldn't be done. If only the kid wants it (say the parent is indifferent/doesn't care either way), it depends on their age.

 

[NiteOwl]

It's great that you personally don't care about height (presumably would not let a few inches of height affect whether you'd date a guy) but the reality is that height matters, a lot, for dating and in many other ways. And the difference between 5 5 and 5 8 is pretty huge. 5 8 is close to average. You are a little short but not glaringly so. You are also taller than a much larger percentage of women, and most women will not date men shorter than they are. At 5 5, on the other hand, you are very short and it will drastically limit your dating options and your career options. So I can understand why a parent would consider hormones to make their kid 5 8 instead of 5 5.

No, I would not let height affect whether or not I would date a guy. I would date a guy that is 5'5"...I would even date a guy that is 5'1".

I am not incredibly tall, just normal. I am about 5'4" maybe 5'5" if I stand as straight and as I can without cheating. I wouldn't mind being and inch or 2 taller but there is not really anything I can do about it. If someone would have asked me when I was a teenager if I wanted hormone injections I would have said no. But that is just me.

All I am saying is that it should be the kids choice too, not just the parents choice. The kid needs to have some say in it too, he or she might not want the treatment.

 

[beetlerum]

No, I would not let height affect whether or not I would date a guy. I would date a guy that is 5'5"...I would even date a guy that is 5'1".

I am not incredibly tall, just normal. I am about 5'4" maybe 5'5" if I stand as straight and as I can without cheating. I wouldn't mind being and inch or 2 taller but there is not really anything I can do about it. If someone would have asked me when I was a teenager if I wanted hormone injections I would have said no. But that is just me.

All I am saying is that it should be the kids choice too, not just the parents choice. The kid needs to have some say in it too, he or she might not want the treatment.

If you would date a guy who is three inches shorter than you, that is extremely unusual. It is certainly commendable but that is just not how most of the world works. The important thing here is the parents aren't doing it so their kids won't be picked on. They're not doing it for their kids' childhoods. They're doing it for their adulthoods. There is just no way you could compare, say, your desire, as a woman of average or even above average height, to be a little bit taller, to the problems faced by a man who is 5 5.

I agree the kids should ideally have a say. Ideally they would make the any decision about their bodies. The problem is just what to do when a decision needs to be made before the kids can effectively decide. Kids might go the other direction too. As someone noted, kids are very sensitive to social issues when preteens. If kids could decide, kids of average height might say "oh, I want to be tall." Parents will hopefully make a more responsible, long-term decision.

 

[NiteOwl]

If you would date a guy who is three inches shorter than you, that is extremely unusual. It is certainly commendable but that is just not how most of the world works. The important thing here is the parents aren't doing it so their kids won't be picked on. They're not doing it for their kids' childhoods. They're doing it for their adulthoods. There is just no way you could compare, say, your desire, as a woman of average or even above average height, to be a little bit taller, to the problems faced by a man who is 5 5.

I agree the kids should ideally have a say. Ideally they would make the any decision about their bodies. The problem is just what to do when a decision needs to be made before the kids can effectively decide. Kids might go the other direction too. As someone noted, kids are very sensitive to social issues when preteens. If kids could decide, kids of average height might say "oh, I want to be tall." Parents will hopefully make a more responsible, long-term decision.

Thats kind of what I am saying. The kids who are below average in height should get the choice of whether or not they want the treatment. The kids who are of average height should not get the treatment at all, and yes hopefully the parents would make the decision and say no in that case. Because there are going to be some average height kids who just want to be taller, even though they are the same height as everyone else. Those kids shouldn't get the treatment when they decide that they want it.