Insight into Duquesne's program?

[Nahsil]

This is sort of a "what are my chances" question, but I'm really just looking for insight into what the PhD program at Duquesne looks for in candidates.

For instance, since the research is qualitative, would they care as much about the quantitative GRE score as opposed to the verbal, which should be important in qualitative research?

And would a lack of traditional quantitative research hurt, when their stuff is more philosophical/essay-based research? I have a degree in English as well as Psychology, so I'm wondering if that would be a big plus in my court, since it seems akin to have experience in "qualitative research."

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[ela]

I interviewed there a few years ago. At the time, they were looking for people with (besides the baseline high GRE, GPA, etc) an interest and background in "psychology + x". At the time, frequent "x's" were continental philosophy, ethics, critical/lit theory, etc. Prepare to talk about why existential thinking/phenomenology are important to you. What does psychology as a human science mean to you? Hope that helps. Really amazing program.

 

[Nahsil]

That sounds fantastic! I'm into psychology + philosophy, religious studies, critical theory, and some other stuff. I really hope they give me a chance despite my shortcomings that more traditional doctoral programs would probably consider a huge deal. I'm trying to get in touch with some professors to discuss common areas of interest between us and stuff.

Thanks for your response!

 

[emh289]

That sounds fantastic! I'm into psychology + philosophy, religious studies, critical theory, and some other stuff. I really hope they give me a chance despite my shortcomings that more traditional doctoral programs would probably consider a huge deal. I'm trying to get in touch with some professors to discuss common areas of interest between us and stuff.

Two years later . . .

Any luck getting into Duquesne? I'm thinking about applying there this year and am wondering how it went for you.

 

[Nahsil]

Has it really been two years? Wow. I didn't get in, went to West Georgia for my Masters instead (several of the profs here are Duquesne alumni). Gonna apply again once I finish.

UWG is a great program for this kinda stuff, if you're interested. Also really affordable because it's in a state university, unlike many humanistic/similarly oriented programs.

 

[Oliver3838]

Is there anything else you could add about going to UWG? I'm thinking about applying there in a couple of years, particularly interested in the critical psychology angle, and whether most people live in Carrollton or commute from the Atlanta suburbs. (Thinking about doing a master's first, maybe in Psychiatric & Psychological Anthropology at Brunel in London, and then applying for the Ph.D.; the UWG website says applicants with M.A.s are strongly preferred.)

 

[psychlurker87]

Hi, I'm a current student at Duquesne and happy to answer any questions. We don't care about GRE scores. They are strictly a formality. Because we're a human science program, we don't feel test scores adequately represent what a person has to offer nor their "intelligence" level or ability.

 

[psychlurker87]

This is sort of a "what are my chances" question, but I'm really just looking for insight into what the PhD program at Duquesne looks for in candidates.

For instance, since the research is qualitative, would they care as much about the quantitative GRE score as opposed to the verbal, which should be important in qualitative research?

And would a lack of traditional quantitative research hurt, when their stuff is more philosophical/essay-based research? I have a degree in English as well as Psychology, so I'm wondering if that would be a big plus in my court, since it seems akin to have experience in "qualitative research."

Just fyi, we take students from various backgrounds. One of my friends was an English major and had no psychology background. This didn't hurt her in the least. We're a very diverse program in terms of what areas of study people come from. Some research experience can't hurt, but it isn't a deal breaker. In my experience, having an MA degree first tends to help people. There are several students who are rejected after their first attempt who then go on to get a MA degree, reapply, and are accepted. You can always message me for more information if you like.

 

[WisNeuro]

What is a "human science" program?

 

[counselor2b]

What is a "human science" program?

Psychology as a Human Science

 

[Justanothergrad]

Psychology as a Human Science

I dont know any more now about what they concretely define as training in a "human science" than I do when I started reading that meandering essay on existentialism and abstraction

 

[WisNeuro]

I dont know any more now about what they concretely define as training in a "human science" than I do when I started reading that meandering essay on existentialism and abstraction

I'm with you. Anyone want to chime in to how the "human science" distinction matters in this training program beyond a clinical psych program with some existentialism thrown in?

 

[psych.meout]

I'm with you. Anyone want to chime in to how the "human science" distinction matters in this training program beyond a clinical psych program with some existentialism thrown in?

This passage from the link is somewhat revealing.

Traditionally, the natural sciences have relied on quantitative, experimental research methods to achieve their goal of prediction and control. Human science psychologists have long held that while this approach may be appropriate when applied to physical objects (such as those studied by physics and chemistry), it is often inappropriate when applied to human phenomena such as history, culture, art, and much of psychology.

The psychological study of human beings often requires distinctive methodologies which seek to understand people and which enable the sharing of this understanding in the service of health and well-being. Following from this perspective, human science psychology emphasizes qualitative research that explores questions regarding meaning, values, experience, and culture. Similarly, in the field of clinical psychology, human science psychologists incorporate this perspective and its research findings into the practice of psychotherapy.

 

[TomOxford]

Psychlurker87,

Just fyi, we take students from various backgrounds. One of my friends was an English major and had no psychology background. This didn't hurt her in the least. We're a very diverse program in terms of what areas of study people come from. Some research experience can't hurt, but it isn't a deal breaker. In my experience, having an MA degree first tends to help people. There are several students who are rejected after their first attempt who then go on to get a MA degree, reapply, and are accepted. You can always message me for more information if you like.

After reading this post I got my hopes up for an interview. My background is in philosophy and phenomenology, although I have a minor in psychology plus some AI research experience. Can you tell us more about what they think is most important in an application? I am expecting a rejection, but I am still curious in case I choose to reapply.

 

[WisNeuro]

I would be particularly concerned about their match rates, in the last 3 cycles, there are match rates of 50% and 67% for accredited internship spots. In this new world of more spots than applicants, that is absurdly low. Interest in philosophy or not, you still want to be employable and not automatically be shut out of the largest employers of psychologists.

 

[Justanothergrad]

This passage from the link is somewhat revealing.

I don't find that to be entirely troubling by virtue of what is being argued (e.g., that experimental methods are not apt to answer every question we need to ask). How that passage translates into practice/training within their program may, and likely is, a bit more problematic that the bolded text necessitates it to be, I suspect. There is plenty of truth to what is being discussed in that passage- we approach 'science' very differently than the hard sciences with respect to our use of data. We have a paradoxical approach to how we use evidence to refine our theories (see Meehl, 1967), perhaps because of the inter-connectiveness between our own bias and scientific outcome or perhaps because of the inherent mushiness and change of many of the socially-influenced considerations we are trying to study. Qualitative research can have an important role in that and I don't think it should be dismissed outright. That doesn't excuse experimental methods from consideration in our training or as a goal for our field, but plenty of important psychological theories have drawn from non-experimental (and even experiential) research.

 

[WisNeuro]

Qualitative research can have an important role in that and I don't think it should be dismissed outright. That doesn't excuse experimental methods from consideration in our training or as a goal for our field, but plenty of important psychological theories have drawn from non-experimental (and even experiential) research.

Totally agree. Qual research is fine, as long as you know how it can be properly done and interpreted, and as long as you get training in experimental research as well. I've seen too many people from shady programs who only have experience in qual research or just did some lit review, and have zero idea how to evaluate research findings, or interpret them in a clinical context.

 

[TomOxford]

I apologize to revive this thread again, but I have just been invited to interview at Duquesne for their clinical phd program. So I will be going there in 3 weeks. Does anyone on this forum board have any advice for the interview? Is it mainly to see if I am a good fit? Dr. Eva Simms said in an email that they do not admit students based on a match with a particular faculty member-- they admit students to the department as a whole before getting hooked up to a mentor. Isn't that much different from the usual way of interviewing?

 

[Psychoroad]

I would be particularly concerned about their match rates, in the last 3 cycles, there are match rates of 50% and 67% for accredited internship spots. In this new world of more spots than applicants, that is absurdly low. Interest in philosophy or not, you still want to be employable and not automatically be shut out of the largest employers of psychologists.

Current student here.

The match rate is because some students actually choose to apply to nonaccredited sites in Pittsburgh and neighboring areas with the hope of staying there, for financial, familial and other pragmatic reasons. And no employment has not been an issue with them.

 

[psych.meout]

Current student here.

The match rate is because some students actually choose to apply to nonaccredited sites in Pittsburgh and neighboring areas with the hope of staying there, for financial, familial and other pragmatic reasons. And no employment has not been an issue with them.

Ok, but you're still severely limiting yourself in terms of employment options without an accredited internship. It's really not prudent to permanently shut so many doors, especially as even more doors might be closing in the near future. I also wouldn't want to put myself in such a disadvantageous position. I'm sure there are unscrupulous employers out there who know this information as well and can use it as leverage to take advantage of you, knowing that your options for other employment are so limited.

 

[WisNeuro]

Current student here.

The match rate is because some students actually choose to apply to nonaccredited sites in Pittsburgh and neighboring areas with the hope of staying there, for financial, familial and other pragmatic reasons. And no employment has not been an issue with them.

Unless they plan on moving ever. Or working in most institutional settings. Pretty much if they do not want to shut themselves out of some of the highest paying jobs.

 

[psychlurker87]

I apologize to revive this thread again, but I have just been invited to interview at Duquesne for their clinical phd program. So I will be going there in 3 weeks. Does anyone on this forum board have any advice for the interview? Is it mainly to see if I am a good fit? Dr. Eva Simms said in an email that they do not admit students based on a match with a particular faculty member-- they admit students to the department as a whole before getting hooked up to a mentor. Isn't that much different from the usual way of interviewing?

Congrats on interviewing. Sounds like your background worked out just fine. Curious what you thought of the interview. Just based on what you said about your background you seem to be a good fit. Apologies for being MIA---I was busy reading philosophy. Also, matched to an accredited internship despite my human science background.

 

[psychlurker87]

Ok, but you're still severely limiting yourself in terms of employment options without an accredited internship. It's really not prudent to permanently shut so many doors, especially as even more doors might be closing in the near future. I also wouldn't want to put myself in such a disadvantageous position. I'm sure there are unscrupulous employers out there who know this information as well and can use it as leverage to take advantage of you, knowing that your options for other employment are so limited.

This may be true (and is certainly true about employers taking advantage of the situation no doubt) but (referencing the post below too) having the highest paying job(s) often isn't a goal for these students. There are several complications for people with families or financial inability to relocate that limits them to non-accredited spots (I'm sure this is an issue in most programs, not just ours). Of the most recent cohort, 5 out of the 6 students matched to an accredited site in Phase I. I suspect all six will match to accredited spots after Phase II. So I think it is important to consider, looking at the statistics, often those reflect students who choose to apply to non-accredited sites for many reasons...and of course it isn't an easy decision. I'm thinking now of several of our students who did non-accredited internships in different states and are now doing just fine with their career and are all employed and doing quite well. That said, our program is likely an acquired taste and certainly isn't for everyone.

 

[Psychoroad]

Ok, but you're still severely limiting yourself in terms of employment options without an accredited internship. It's really not prudent to permanently shut so many doors, especially as even more doors might be closing in the near future. I also wouldn't want to put myself in such a disadvantageous position. I'm sure there are unscrupulous employers out there who know this information as well and can use it as leverage to take advantage of you, knowing that your options for other employment are so limited.

Not sure who and what you're thinking about in terms of permanently shutting doors to employment. All of the students who did a non-accredited internship in Pittsburgh are doing well for themselves right now. APA is not the be-it-end-all.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Not sure who and what you're thinking about in terms of permanently shutting doors to employment. All of the students who did a non-accredited internship in Pittsburgh are doing well for themselves right now. APA is not the be-it-end-all.

It does shut doors. Factually speaking.

And 'all'? You must have a larger social group than I can even imagine. I know plenty of folks who make hiring decisions in the burgh, including those at top tier employment sites. I cant imagine any of them looking at it positively.

 

[Psychoroad]

Unless they plan on moving ever. Or working in most institutional settings. Pretty much if they do not want to shut themselves out of some of the highest paying jobs.

The students I know who specifically chose an excellent psychodynamic, non-accredited internship in Pittsburgh here have moved to other big cities and joined private practices and are making good money.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Current student here.

The match rate is because some students actually choose to apply to nonaccredited sites in Pittsburgh and neighboring areas with the hope of staying there, for financial, familial and other pragmatic reasons. And no employment has not been an issue with them.

I have nothing against Duquesne, but literally every program with a lower match rate says pretty much this exact thing.

 

[Psychoroad]

It does shut doors. Factually speaking.

And 'all'? You must have a larger social group than I can even imagine.

Haha. Not even close. I am not a social butterfly but we are a close-knit community who care about each other's wellbeing here. I'm talking about Duquesne in particular.

Not sure what "facts" you are referencing. I'm just telling the prospective student on this topic that the Duquesne students I know who chose a non-accredited internship here, usually because of problems with moving their kids too much, are doing well and don't face the barriers that are supposedly haunting students who go to non-accredited internships.

 

[Psychoroad]

I have nothing against Duquesne, but literally every program with a lower match rate says pretty much this exact thing.

Where did you even get these numbers? Every student has matched - we've had a 100% match rate for a long time. Whether or not people choose an accredited or non-accredited internship is their business.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Where did you even get these numbers? Every student has matched - we've had a 100% match rate for a long time. Whether or not people choose an accredited or non-accredited internship is their business.

Lower accredited match rate, then. I've been in the position to advise a fair number of people going through match, even at the height of the imbalance. I had several ask me if they should rank unaccredited sites. My answer has always been a hard no. It will forever limit your career options, and you can't "fix" it. It's an unequivocal poor decision, and I would look askance at anyone who advised it for students (maybe a slight exception for school psych students, but even then, it's a limitation that I would--and have--recommended against). It's just a bad decision, period.

 

[Psychoroad]

Well maybe in terms of going for academic

Lower accredited match rate, then. I've been in the position to advise a fair number of people going through match, even at the height of the imbalance. I had several ask me if they should rank unaccredited sites. My answer has always been a hard no. It will forever limit your career options, and you can't "fix" it. It's an unequivocal poor decision, and I would look askance at anyone who advised it for students (maybe a slight exception for school psych students, but even then, it's a limitation that I would--and have--recommended against). It's just a bad decision, period.

Maybe in terms of going for academic or other positions. But the vast vast majority of Duquesne students came because they want to be well-informed clinical psychologists providing direct service to clients. Most go into private practice and are doing very well, thank you very much.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Well maybe in terms of going for academic

Maybe in terms of going for academic or other positions. But the vast vast majority of Duquesne students came because they want to be well-informed clinical psychologists providing direct service to clients. Most go into private practice and are doing very well, thank you very much.

There are plenty of clinical positions that require or strongly prefer APA internships. Can people do well without one? Sure. Is it a smart career move? No.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Not sure what "facts" you are referencing. I'm just telling the prospective student on this topic that the Duquesne students I know who chose a non-accredited internship here, usually because of problems with moving their kids too much, are doing well and don't face the barriers that are supposedly haunting students who go to non-accredited internships.

I'm telling you that by VA standards, unaccredited internships (non-VA) do not allow employment. The same is for many AMCs and others. So,these are factual barriers including the largest employer of psychologists in the country. They have simply opted out (via PP) of the things that were not open to them anyway.

None of that is really up for debate. And unaccredited stuff also frequently requires additional hoops for licensure as well.

 

[psych.meout]

Not sure who and what you're thinking about in terms of permanently shutting doors to employment. All of the students who did a non-accredited internship in Pittsburgh are doing well for themselves right now. APA is not the be-it-end-all.

You're conflating two issues. As others have pointed out, the VA explicitly does not hire psychologists who have not completed APA-accredited internships, as do many academic medical centers and other large employers. This is not the same as saying that someone "can't do well for themselves" without an APA-accredited internship. They have simply closed off many avenues of employment, which is going to limit their career flexibility, not necessarily success. That said, it's debatable whether they would have been competitive for these jobs in the first place if they weren't able to get an APA-accredited internship.

You are correct that the "APA is not the be-it-end-all," it's the minimum training standard. This is why many organizations will not hire people without them, and more still will put you at a serious disadvantage compared to applicants with accredited internships.

You seem quite defensive, which is understandable, but these are facts. It's dishonest to act like the field doesn't care about this issue.

 

[WisNeuro]

The students I know who specifically chose an excellent psychodynamic, non-accredited internship in Pittsburgh here have moved to other big cities and joined private practices and are making good money.

I'm sure that one or two can find success. But, the numbers for most would strongly argue otherwise. Data beats anecdote.

 

[GradStudent2020]

I just want to point out that there continues to be an imbalance...there are more APPIC spots than applicants but there are NOT more APA accredited spots than applicants.

I’ve seen misinformation posted several times in regard to this, especially in discussions about published match rate data. Posters seem to think that all qualified student should match at an APA spot, but that’s not the full story. There were almost 400 more students than APA positions this cycle. That doesn’t even take into account that many placements are not generalist sites, so there is an expectation of applicant/site match that makes it even more unlikely that all applicants will match in the first phase to a good fit site.

If this concerns you about Duquesne, I would reach out to current/past students to find out why more students don’t match at APA accredited. I know for some programs, students may be fully prepared and competitive for APA spots, but may feel they need to stay in a specific geographical region.

I matched at an APA site this round, but considered non-APA sites due to my personal circumstances. I’ve been in the field long enough and know my skills/areas of interests well enough that I don’t believe a non-APA internship would have had a major impact on my career. However, my school actively discourages non-APA because they are motivated to keep their numbers up.

 

[clausewitz2]

Unless they plan on moving ever.

Yinzers don't move. You can't leave without crossing a bridge or going through a tunnel and that's basically the same as travelling to the moon.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yinzers don't move. You can't leave without crossing a bridge or going through a tunnel and that's basically the same as travelling to the moon.

We have a friend here who is originally from Pittsburgh. She puts ketchup on her steak. That's all I need to know about these people.

 

[AlmostaPhD]

I fear I will regret jumping into this, but one should not only be concerned about certain jobs caring about APA accredited internships. In my state you will not be licensed if your internship (and doctoral program, for that matter) is not APA accredited. Specifically:

"The internship must be accredited by the APA or the CPA except as noted below. The internship shall be appropriate to the applicant’s graduate training specialization. Programs working toward accreditation must have an active application with APA or CPA at the time the intern completed the program or within two years of the applicant’s completion of the program."

Maybe we're the only state like this, and maybe you never want to move to this state, but I wouldn't be nonchalant about the potential impact of a non-accredited internship. Whether you think it is fair or not, I know of a faculty member in this state who could not be licensed here and then, once a state law changed and required that psychologists supervising trainee service provision be licensed in this state, he was not allowed to supervise clinical practicum without a locally licensed psychologist overseeing him (which is a bit of an annoyance for him and for the faculty who would have to supervise his work for free or find other coverage for practicum). He ended up leaving his academic position and works in administration in a clinical setting. That's probably an extreme example, but still.

 

[GradStudent2020]

I fear I will regret jumping into this, but one should not only be concerned about certain jobs caring about APA accredited internships. In my state you will not be licensed if your internship (and doctoral program, for that matter) is not APA accredited. Specifically:

"The internship must be accredited by the APA or the CPA except as noted below. The internship shall be appropriate to the applicant’s graduate training specialization. Programs working toward accreditation must have an active application with APA or CPA at the time the intern completed the program or within two years of the applicant’s completion of the program."

Maybe we're the only state like this, and maybe you never want to move to this state, but I wouldn't be nonchalant about the potential impact of a non-accredited internship. Whether you think it is fair or not, I know of a faculty member in this state who could not be licensed here and then, once a state law changed and required that psychologists supervising trainee service provision be licensed in this state, he was not allowed to supervise clinical practicum without a locally licensed psychologist overseeing him (which is a bit of an annoyance for him and for the faculty who would have to supervise his work for free or find other coverage for practicum). He ended up leaving his academic position and works in administration in a clinical setting. That's probably an extreme example, but still.

What state is this? I asked about this specifically lately, if any states dissalow “proving” training
that was not APA.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[GradStudent2020]

Mississippi. Not a state knowing for being particularly regulation-heavy, and one that could use a few more licensed psychologists, so if our state board leans this way I wonder whether others do.

Ohhhhh, Mississippi. They could definitely use more. I lived in Oxford for a bit! Thanks for sharing.

 

[GradStudent2020]

I fear I will regret jumping into this, but one should not only be concerned about certain jobs caring about APA accredited internships. In my state you will not be licensed if your internship (and doctoral program, for that matter) is not APA accredited. Specifically:

"The internship must be accredited by the APA or the CPA except as noted below. The internship shall be appropriate to the applicant’s graduate training specialization. Programs working toward accreditation must have an active application with APA or CPA at the time the intern completed the program or within two years of the applicant’s completion of the program."

Maybe we're the only state like this, and maybe you never want to move to this state, but I wouldn't be nonchalant about the potential impact of a non-accredited internship. Whether you think it is fair or not, I know of a faculty member in this state who could not be licensed here and then, once a state law changed and required that psychologists supervising trainee service provision be licensed in this state, he was not allowed to supervise clinical practicum without a locally licensed psychologist overseeing him (which is a bit of an annoyance for him and for the faculty who would have to supervise his work for free or find other coverage for practicum). He ended up leaving his academic position and works in administration in a clinical setting. That's probably an extreme example, but still.

I had to look it up but you can prove internship equivalency in Mississippi.

https://www.psychologyboard.ms.gov/Psy Documents/Rules_Regulation_20130225.pdf

 

[AlmostaPhD]

Oh good catch. If yours met the other criteria you can submit details for review "on a case by case basis." I do not know what happened in the case I know of, then. Maybe the non-APA internship was judged as not equivalent? For the record, it is a legit internship that exists (and is accredited) today. It has been accredited for ~15 years now, but the faculty member went through before that and the internship was described to me as the reason for the lack of license. Of course, I am not on the MS Board!

 

[GradStudent2020]

Oh good catch. If yours met the other criteria you can submit details for review "on a case by case basis." I do not know what happened in the case I know of, then. Maybe the non-APA internship was judged as not equivalent? For the record, it is a legit internship that exists (and is accredited) today. It has been accredited for ~15 years now, but the faculty member went through before that and the internship was described to me as the reason for the lack of license. Of course, I am not on the MS Board!

I had a friend going through the licensure process is Mississippi while I was there. They were licensed in an adjacent state and had some unusual nitpicky issues with Mississippi. It was finally sorted and they were licensed. Boards are run by ... people ... who for better or worse sometimes get to make their own call. I definitely think APA program/APA internship makes the process easier anywhere you go.